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It is often asked whether or not, and indeed Why (then) Jesus did ever speak the name of his Father, YHWH. Most trinitarians will say ‘No’ Jesus never spoke God’s name because [it would be rude to say your father’s name – just say ‘Father’ or ( more intimately) ‘Abba’!].
But it is noted that Jesus quoted from the Old Testament where the name of God, ‘YHWH’ was used.
While being tempted in the wilderness by Satan Jesus quotes Deuteronomy 6:16, ‘You shall worship the LORD your God and him only shall you serve’.
How did Jesus (supposedly) avoid saying the name of God while quoting a statement?
We know that it is only the scripture writers who turned the name ‘YHWH’ into ‘LORD’ and not that the word ‘LORD’ (All Caps for our sake) was actually used in speech. Moreover, WHY avoid saying the name – Jesus was not out to please or uphold the debasing traditions of the Jews!! And in any case Jesus wasn’t speaking to a Jewish person…he was speaking to a demonic Angel, [the] Satan, leader of the rebellious sons of God. Remember that the Jews only refused to speak the name of Almighty God because they feared mis-using it in everyday affairs (e.g. Swearing an oath or sealing a deal had involved confirmation using God’s name. False oaths and deals sworn in God’s name just wouldn’t do!)… Jesus would have no fear of mis-use!
So, any ideas why today it is claimed that Jesus never spoke the name of God…
(please see that ‘Eigo Eimi’ IS NOT the name of Almighty God as all trinitarians falsely claim!)
In the many verses in the New Testament where quotes are made from the Old Testament in which Almighty God’s personal name, YAHWEH, is used… Did Jesus use that name (Yahweh) when he spoke those quotes?
It is interesting (to me, anyway) that the quote is precise but the translators have modified the text to say ‘Lord’ (Greek: Kurios – or similar).
Surely Jesus Christ would not have feared the Jews and pursuaded himself not to speak his Father’s name.
Could the truth be that it is the trinitarian translators who were fearful of showing that Jesus WAS NOT (IS NOT) Almighty God that they colluded to say, ‘Lord’ instead of ‘Yahweh’ knowing that ‘Kurios’ would cause enough confusion that a fallacy could be perpetrated. You know, like how trinitarians say that Jesus:
– DIDNT EMPTY HIMSELF (Phil 2) but only ‘VEILED his glory’ (‘Empty’ suddenly means ‘Veiled’!)
– DIDNT DIE: only his body died (Thus denying the TOTALLITY of what scriptures says concerning the SACRIFICE for Salvation: After all, what is the death of the body in someone who it is claimed is ALMIGHTY GOD? ‘God can turn stones into [living breathing] humans’ – indeed skeleton bones come back to life in flesh (Do you know your Scriptures?)
– WAS ALWAYS GOD but was ‘Everlasting got BORN’???
– Was NOT BORN but WAS BORN as the first of creation!!
– Was not created but was always existing!
– Came from THE FATHER (thus, SON, image of the Father)!!!
– Dis not come from the Father but was always with him…
– Created the world yet it was the Father who did it (through, they say, the son).
– Alone created all things for him (-self????) yet it was NOT HE ALONE but by THREE?
– Did not even figure in Genesis except by prophesy (The seed of the woman! And Abrahams wish!)
– is NOT NAMED ‘Yahweh’ yet trinity says he is (but can’t show a single verse saying so!)
Your response is awaiting!
Many verses in the New Testament use THE NAME OF ALMIGHTY GOD: ‘YHYH’…
However, it is DISGUISED by trinitarians who ALTERED the sacred name to read ‘LORD’ (fully capitalised in English) despite the fact that the verses this sacred name is used in is a DIRECT QUOTE from the Old Testament.
Altering the holy scriptures in this way serves only to cause confusion among trinitarians congregations so as to allow trinitarian preachers to persuade them that Jesus is ALSO ‘Lord’ – meaning (to them..) ‘God’.
But when I question trinitarians as to whether they mean Jesus is ALMIGHTY GOD (‘LORD’: ‘YHWH’) or just ‘Lord’ (‘Master’, ‘Teacher’, ‘Honoured, reverend, mighty…person) the trinitarians choke and run away!
I mean that they REFUSE to say that Jesus is ALMIGHTY GOD (who they acknowledge is THE FATHER!!!) … they ONLY CLAIM that Jesus is ‘GOD’ (Not ALMIGHTY GOD!!) yet continue to state from the fallacious trinity doctrine that Jesus is THE SAME GOD AS THE FATHER!
Is there any logic or even simply common sense in their claim?
Could the alteration of the PERSONAL name of God: ‘YHWH’, to the generic TITLE, ‘LORD’, be so deliberate as to condemn (As a confession of a truth) the doctrine of the trinity?
Jael
how important is it to refer to God almighty by the 4 letters ?
for Jesus most of the time refer to him as OUR FATHER/FATHER so what is your take on this ?and to my understanding if anyone believes in the trinity he just is a lost soul ,ignorant of the truth in scriptures ,but that is their own choice and so God’s judgement will be a righteous one in rejecting them for God clearly says he is one God and the only God at his level of things
Terra,
It is extremely important to ACKNOWLEDGE the name of our one God. This one God we believe in GAVE us his name, saying, ‘This is my name for everlasting!’.
My point was that by replacing the name our one God gave us for himself we are diminishing his authority and power due to our fears and superstitions.
The Jews only stopped using the name because they began to abuse its power and authority by, for instance, swearing an oath in his name and then reneging on the oath – this diminishes and renders powerless the Power and authority of the name. When someone (Christian) goes to court and ‘swears on the bible’ that they will tell the truth and nothing but the truth and then LIE or are otherwise deceptive or ‘more than lenient with the truth…!’ then the point or purpose, the power and authority, the fear and reverence of the spiritual author of the book is made ineffective.
To call our one God ‘LORD’ (in writing) as a substitute for his name suggests we have little reverential respect to him. In fact the sounding of the ‘new name’ leads to confusion of identity of the one God of the Jews and Christians which is happily exploited and maintained by ‘the sons of Satan’.
Many criticisms are laid at the door of jehovahs witnesses for speaking a rendering of the name (Hebrew: YHVH) as Jehovah or Yahweh saying ‘We don’t know how it was properly pronounced so it’s wrong to even TRY to say it’.
I’m not a JW but I recognise that it is FALSE doctrine to say we shouldn’t try to say it as best we can… It is NOT the exact pronunciation that matters but rather the spiritual intent. After all… the one called CHRIST (title) is NOT named ‘Jesus’ (name). ‘Jesus’ is NOT his Jewish name – it is an ENGLISH RENDERING – yet we don’t refrain from using it – may, we GLORIFY in saying it – even teaching ‘the world’ that that is his NAME DESPITE knowing the EXACT Jewish pronounciation of ‘Yeshua’!!!
In fact, far more reverence is shown to ‘the Christ of Almighty God’, the mighty prophet and holy Messenger of God’ than to the sender: Almighty God; Yahweh….
As for the totally inapt trinitarian ‘MEANING’ of the Hebrew letters (YHWH) saying ‘I AM’ and therefore any time Jesus says ‘I am’ (even in Aramaic or Greek!!) it means Jesus is Almighty God (though trinitarians NEVER actually call Jesus ‘Almighty God’ despite their otherwise undying claim that he is ‘GOD’ (strange, isn’t it… Is this an admission that they KNOW they are wrong??), the MEANING is not to be used as a NAME – ‘I Am’ is NOT a name but a short DESCRIPTION of ALMIGHTY GOD.
Saying this also highlights the FACT that ‘LORD’ is NOT A NAME… It is a TITLE… a title that rightly and properly carries a said or unsaid ‘The’ as a prefix (THE LORD…. THE CHRIST… THE GOD but not ‘THE I AM’!!!). Who says of them self, or another, ‘The Peter’, ‘The John’, ‘The Abraham’… If they are identifying a single specific unique entity by NAME?
So, ‘The Terra'(?), yes, it is very important to identify the unique name of the unique one God of Jesus and of the Jews and of the true Christian.
Jael
ok, tell me how the true pronunciation are said ? if you cannot say it then NO IT IS NOT IMPORTANT,
for God as made himself known in different ways at different times
,
you don’t make sense in you explanationTerra, I have heard (read) it said that you will argue with God himself. I see now it is true.
Terra, what is the name of the man whose title is ‘The Christ of God’? How is it spoken? And NO, it is NOT “Jesus”.
“Jesus” is an ENGLISH INTERPRETATION of the HEBREW for ‘Joshua’. BUT NO-ONE finds any difficulty in Mispronouncing that true name in saying ‘Jesus’, do they?
The early church were primarily ex-Jewish-based and therefore followed the FALSE BELIEF that it could be blasphemous to pronounce the name if their one God OUT LOUD. They therefore continued the practice of only writing but not speaking ‘YHWH’ and eventually the exact pronounciation was lost.
My question is: ‘Did the one whose name we mispronounce as ‘Jesus’, one who would not be afraid to speak his Father’s name out loud. Did he ever speak that name’ – after all, he quoted to the disciples and the Jews directly from the Old Testament where the name ‘Yhwh’ was plainly written.
Challengimg ME to know the EXACT pronounciation of my only God only goes to show you are purely interested in creating a dishonest discussion.
Are you angry when posters call you ‘Terra’ instead of ‘Terraricca’?
Wouls you he annoyed if they refused to refer to you as either but rather ‘Angryman’ or ‘arguer’ or ‘unbelieving poster’.
Calling Almighty God, LORD (capitalised), goes against what YHWH God said: ‘This IS MY NAME for all ETERNITY”.
Terraricca, can you not see that SATAN the deceiving fallen Angel WANTS mankind to prove YHWH wrong by forgetting God’s name of YHWH.
Terra, whether ‘Yahweh’ or ‘Jehovah’ or similar, an honest and educated attempt at speaking god’s name IS BETTER than refusing to attempt to because we don’t know it’s EXACT pronounciation.
Jael,
You know full well the NT was written in Greek and Jesus and the Jews of his day supposedly spoke Aramaic so how are we to know if Jesus ever said God’s name? We know it wasn’t the practice of the Jews to do so as you’ve pointed out and we don’t know if Jesus even spoke Hebrew or Greek for that matter.
“Challengimg ME to know the EXACT pronounciation of my only God only goes to show you are purely interested in creating a dishonest discussion.”
And why is Terra’s question to you in any way dishonest since it is you who are making a big deal out of it.? You think people should say Jehovah or Yahweh-Yaway as most pronounce it but that seems to be your own religious fetish or you learned it from someone else.
The OT authors as you pointed out also used terms as Adonai -Lord or master,and Elohim-God so they didn’t write or say Yahweh all the time either. And you find fault in that?
And the Jews call him Lord-Adonai and Hashem-the Name out of respect which you say is disrespectful but that is only your religious opinion.
And do you consider all trinitarians and Jews as sons of Satan?
I think (know!) that you are wrong to say that the Old Testament scholars did not say god’s name.
Your opinion just goes to show you do not know what you are saying.
God’s name ‘Yhwh’ is used extensively throughout the Old Testament. In virtually every bible you will see God’s name written as a substitute of ‘LORD’ (all capitals). Check the front pages of the bible and you will see that the author states that ‘LORD’ is a replacement of the Hebrew Tetragrammaton (‘YHWH’).
Now read any verse where ‘LORD’ is used, for instance,:
‘I am the LORD your God’…
What should it really say? Oh, yes…:
‘I am YHWH your God’…
Is it MY OPINION?
I never said the OT scholars,I think you meant authors,didn’t say,and,or write God’s name.Of course they did,and as you say the term LORD is used in our English bibles in place of Yahweh. But as you and I both pointed out that’s not always what they said. And nowhere in the NT is it used unless one wants to assert it whenever the term Lord is said meaning the Father/Jehovah.
I have no qualms saying Yahweh or Jehovah,but as the NT does I mostly say God or Father and I don’t think God minds.I don’t call my actual father by his proper name and don’t normally call God by his either.
I think you are straining the point of the thread.
I asked if Jesus every SPOKE God’s name.
I suggested that Jesus would not have feared speaking God’s name while, for instance, quoting from the Old Testament.
Remember also, that the reason the Jews feared speaking God’s name OUT LOUD was that ‘Yahweh’ had been used and abused as a means of securing an oath or business deal. If a person swears an oath in God’s name it is as good as signing with a signature – but then that person defaults on the oath they are then bringing God’s name into disrepute – making God’s name of no value or credibility. THIS IS WHAT WOULD SHAME GOD…and God cannot be shamed so there is an affliction brought on the perpetrator by God (or Jews execute it on him as self-imposed judge and jury, to wit, by stoning… the only direct religious execution method that the Roman occupiers allowed them)
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