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JESUS DID NOT DIE FOR ALL, ELSE HE WOULD HAVE DIED IN VAIN
To believe that Christ died for you, because He died for all, is to ‘believe a lie’; but even if it were true, of what advantage could this faith be to you? His dying for you, because for all, secures you nothing.
Sinners do not have the ability or power to believe and to repent. Such teaching is false to the core. The call given in the gospel, and given by all who preach the gospel in its fullness, to believe and repent is the outward call. It is the prerogative of the Holy Spirit alone in His internal call and regenerating work to make the outward call effectual. ‘Many are called, but few are chosen.’
‘Whom He did predestinate, them He also called’ (Rom. 8: 30).
‘Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus, before the world began." (2 Tim. 1: 9).
‘By grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast." (Eph. 2: 8,9).
Those who believe in a Universal Atonement, that Christ died for all and every man alike, usually support their view with certain passages in Scripture, which on the surface appear to teach that Christ died for the whole world of mankind. According to the Word of God, Christ by His death infallibly secured the salvation of the elect, those chosen in Him and given Him by the Father before the foundation of the world. Those for whom Christ suffered and died are called ‘His sheep’ (John 10: 11, 15); ‘His Church’ (Acts 20: 28; Ephesians 5: 25-27); ‘His people’ (Matthew 1: 21); ‘His elect’ (Romans 8: 32-35). If Christ died for all, then all would be saved, for it is impossible that they for whom Christ died and whose guilt He expiated, should be condemned and lost on account of that guilt. In His intercessory prayer Christ prays for all for whom He offered Himself as a sacrifice.
‘I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which Thou hast given Me: for they are Thine’ (John 17: 9).
And on these alone He bestows eternal life.
‘As Thou hast given Him power over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as Thou hast given Him’ (John 17: 2).
‘This is the Father’s will which hath sent Me, that of all which He hath given Me I should lose nothing . . . . that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on Him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day’ (John 6: 39, 40).
Hi,
This post misses the point. All are invited to be saved. All can be saved. All can be born again of water and the Spirit and enter the kingdom.
Predestination says you have no choice. We are saved if we are predestined to be saved. Where is free will in this? God knows who will respond but they still have to respond and choose life.
Universalism teaches that because of the work of Jesus all are saved. False also as again free will must be involved. Men must choose to repent and believe.
Neither is it the internal work of the Holy Spirit as mentioned here as men normally only receive that Spirit after salvation.Hi greg,
If we are true to the teachings of our saviour and his disciples we must teach the way of salvation he showed us.
It is not for us to stand back and say we do not know who is saved. We cannot point to exceptions that we think God will make and devise a salvation doctrine out of them. God's ways are not our ways. God is merciful. Those who give a cup of water to us because we are his will not lose their reward -but that does not mean we should carry water bottles around trying to get in the back door.
No.
There is a gate. we are meant to go through that gate of Jesus. If we wants to be backed by the promises of God and not vain hope we need to follow the path prescribed to us. That is not following the OT LAW. It is following Jesus.
Look at what Jesus said to the rich young Jew and understand that the first part of the message was for the Jews as he had asked “what should he DO to inherit salvation” The secoond part of the answer is for all including you and I.
It is not what we “do”,greg, that saves us. It is what has been done for us , but we must obey Chrsit and be born again of water nad the Spirit to partake of it.Nick,
So all of God's chosen people, (all but Abraham, Moses, and Elijah, I am sure you would agree), who lived before Christ are going to hell?
Hi Nick,
I agree. Jesus is the way. But I also think that He is the only way for all. Repentance and turning from wickedness is essential. Profession of faith is important. Possession of faith is shown in the way we walk. Faith without works is dead. I am resting in what Jesus has done for me. I can't save myself. Allowing the Spirit of God to work through me takes the credit away from me doing the work.The question remains: Is there another way to have salvation other than through Christ and what He did for us on the cross?
If the answer is yes, then why did such a great sacrifice have to be made?
Hi Nick,
One more point if I may. When Jesus was speaking to Nicodemus about being born again in John 3, He said “You are Isreal's teacher and you do not understand these things?”
What information in the Old Testament would Nicodemus of had to understand being born of the Spirit? Ezekiel 36:26 and Psalms 51 are a few passages that come to my mind.
Ps. I am not the untitled guest who posted above my first entry.
This post is in response to the first post on predestination.
Did Jesus die for all? If He did not, then maybe John 3:16 should read “For God so loved some of the people in the world”
II Peter 3:9: God is “not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance” I know that when the word “all” is used it does not always mean all, it is inclussive of the group in reference. The bible tells us the group in reference. It is found in John 3:16. “for God so loved the world”
If Jesus did not die for all, then some are predestined to go into the everlasting fire. If this is true then why was hell fire not prepared for them. Jesus says “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels. Matthew 25:41
“Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because ALL SINNED.” Romans 5:12
“Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to ALL MEN, resulting in justification of life.” Romans 5:18We had no control what happened to us in Adam and we also had no control over what happened to us in the 2nd Adam. We can however choose which adam we want to belong to. If we choose to remain in the first, then the penalty of the law still hangs over us and we are awaiting the lake of fire. If we choose the 2nd Adam, then the penaly has been carried out already and He rose from the dead so we have this same hope and the second death has no power over us.
Why does God tell us to choose if we do not have the power to choose? And Joshua said “choose you this day whom ye will serve;…as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.” Joshua 24:15
Quote (Guest @ April 22 2005,22:23) Nick, So all of God's chosen people, (all but Abraham, Moses, and Elijah, I am sure you would agree), who lived before Christ are going to hell?
No greg,
To say this is to say the fristrcovenant had no validity and God would not be faithful to His promises to the Jews. Jesus spoke of these men being in the kingdom and at the wedding feast.
But Jesus opened up a new and better way through the tearing of the temple veil of his flesh. He closed the old way having fully fulfilled it and since then 'violent men have been forcing their way into the kingdom' which is not open just to Jew, but to all.Quote (Guest @ April 22 2005,23:40) Hi Nick,
I agree. Jesus is the way. But I also think that He is the only way for all. Repentance and turning from wickedness is essential. Profession of faith is important. Possession of faith is shown in the way we walk. Faith without works is dead. I am resting in what Jesus has done for me. I can't save myself. Allowing the Spirit of God to work through me takes the credit away from me doing the work.The question remains: Is there another way to have salvation other than through Christ and what He did for us on the cross?
If the answer is yes, then why did such a great sacrifice have to be made?
Hi greg,
So profession of faith is the way of salvation? No need to go through the gate at all? That is another way than that professed by the followers of Jesus and the Lord himself.Yes it is for all.
Yes God has specified other means by which some will be saved. They will not have the assurance of the three witnesses of 1Jn 5 and will not expect to be saved. They can only hope on the generous, but specific, mercy of the loving God.
Preachers are only to preach the way of Jesus.
Hi Nck,
My question remains; If anyone could have been saved by a means other than Christ, then why did such a great sacrifice have to be made?
Greg
Hi Greg,
No one could be saved if Jesus didn't die for our sins that is true. I think this is what you are saying.
God is sovereign and he has promised that all in his son will be saved. But if God chooses to save the Jews or those who existed before the time of Christ, then he can do it because Jesus died for all mankind. He paid the price.
It's just that not all men choose God. Many say no to his salvation and God respects our decisions. Even if they are wrong. After all he allows people to murder does he not? He truly gave us free will.
Bless you.
Hi greg,
Scripture says 'without blood there is no forgiveness'.The spotless Lamb of God was slain for us so that we might obtain forgiveness of sin in him.
It is none of our business how far God chooses to extend that grace that was won. That is useless philosophy. We should not be complaining that others who have not worked long in the vineyard are paid the same as those who have worked long and hard. That is the the decision God makes and we cannot judge God for whatever He decides .
It is our business to make sure of our own salvation and not play ducks and drakes with eternity.
Hi Nick.
“Without blood there is no remission of sin” Agreed! But are we in agreement that the old testament sacrifices never took a single sin away?Hebrews 10:1-4;
For the law, having a shadow of he good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect.
For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worrshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sin.
But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year.
For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.Psalms 51 is a good chapter to read along with the above verses.
I appreciate all of your posts Nick.
Thanks greg,
Dear Adam did us a massive favour. He was ignorant and blissfully so, lead by his outer earthly nature but nurtured and kept safe by his close relationship with God. He then did the worse possible thing. He rebelled following his wife and Satan.
But he also ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. This burdened him and us with an evil perfectionist accusing conscience. Immediately he felt condemned for being naked and they hid from their maker.
His sin caused them to be thrown out of their safe coccoon and to be cast away from the closeness with God. God still cared for his needs and he was never far from the Spirit of God. But he remained ignorant and earthly.
God sent him leaders and prophets anointed with the Spirit and the Law to give him a lamp for his feet. God appointed priests who could release God's forgiveness once a year by sacrifice and entering the Holy of Holies for his progeny. But these neither changed the character of man or released him from his evil conscience.
God then produced the real answer. He sent his heavenly and perfect only begotten Son whom he trusted completely to solve the problem. The Son was as a totally obedient servant and spotless. He came as a man being made for a time a little lower than the angels and perfectly fulfilled the Law then dying for our sin as the Lamb of God.
Now we can be really free. We can be clothed with the one whom God utterly loves and cannot condemn. So God can look at us and only see the Son he treasures. Not only that but there is now no condemnation for them who are in Christ Jesus. In Baptism our bodies are washed in water for forgiveness but our evil consciences are spinkled clean too. If the Son shall set you free you shall be free indeed.
There is more. He renews our hearts and minds so we can have the mind of Christ. And he puts his Spirit IN us as a teacher and guide and law and power.This is amazing and new.Thank you Adam. We will become like the Son of Heaven, the second Adam, the Man from heaven thanks to the situation Adam put us in that released such compassion from the heart of God.
There is more. We can still sin but we now have an advocate before the Father interceding for us and the Spirit can also intercede for our needs.
There is more. A millenium without the accuser of the brethren and the removal of all earth's problems he caused.
Wait. There is more. Eternity with the Father and Son. No wonder Paul pleaded with us in Hebrews 4 not to miss out.
There is salvation in no one else.
LEVITICUS 17:11
For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.It's not predestination vs. free will.
It's both.
Somebody (I forgot who) described it once like we are all brides who have been proposed to. Our marriage has been pre-arranged already. The guests have been sent invitations and dates have been set. The witnesses are present to sign the marriage license and the Father is present to officiate the ceremony. It is then our decision whether we say “I do” when the time comes.
The reality of that allegory is that everyone will have a Christ encounter, of some sort, at least once in their life and then must make their choice.
Acts 17:26-28
26From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. 27God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. 28'For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring.'Hi,
If you want to get on with God the only way up is down. Admit hopelessness and helplessness and you will be given strength and understanding. Admit ignorance and you will gain knowledge.God wants all to be saved.
Christ died that all might live.But there are enough delusions and distractions in life for men to miss the message.
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