Did jesus have the same spirit as believers?

[NickHassan]

Hi CA,
What relationship does you humanistic religion bear to the Body of Christ when you have put your traditions above his teachings and replaced him with a pope?

We know you have been busy for 1800 years but is it relevant to God in any way?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 04 2009,21:18)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 02 2009,19:24) Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 02 2009,02:56) The Catholic church is not a man made orgainization unless you are referring to the God-man Jesus Christ. Hi CA Where is the Biblical and Historical link of the Catholic Church to Jesus and the original 12? WJ It is replete throughout Scripture, the fathers, the councils. Where would you like me to start?

HI CA

I do not see the words Catholic, or Pope, or the the acknowedgement of Peter being the chief leader of the Apostles anywhere in the scritpures!

WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
Just like trinity then?
But that does not worry you does it?

[Catholic Apologist]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 06 2009,08:38)

Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 04 2009,21:18) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 02 2009,19:24) Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 02 2009,02:56) The Catholic church is not a man made orgainization unless you are referring to the God-man Jesus Christ. Hi CA Where is the Biblical and Historical link of the Catholic Church to Jesus and the original 12? WJ It is replete throughout Scripture, the fathers, the councils. Where would you like me to start? HI CA I do not see the words Catholic, or Pope, or the the acknowedgement of Peter being the chief leader of the Apostles anywhere in the scritpures! WJ

Your litmus test for truth is incomplete and faulty since your statement included “I” don't see.

You are not the final arbiter of truth for your own life.

[NickHassan]

Hi CA,
So your future depends on the speculative ideas that spring from Rome?
Do you really have that much trust in man and so little in the God of Scripture?
Little children can come to Jesus and learn from him but why do grown men shy away?

[942767]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 01 2009,13:01)

Hi Marty Quote (942767 @ Aug. 26 2009,21:04) Hi WJ: And so, you are saying that the following scripture is a lie? Quote 2Jo 1:9   Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. No that is the whole point we have been making all along, that anti-Trinitarians pit scriptures against one another, or just accept some and reject others to support their manmade doctrines. By the scripture you quote above you are trying to prove a positive with a negative. I show you scriptures which are unambiguous proof that there are three, The Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and you give me a scripture that only mentions Jesus and the Father then proceed to claim that because the Holy Spirit is not in the verse that is proof that the Holy Spirit is not a distinct person, and in so doing deny Jesus own words in the following scriptures, and refuse to give an explanation for them… And I will ask the Father, and he will give you “ANOTHER COUNSELOR” to be with you forever– John 14:16 The word another is…Strong's G243 – allos, and simply means; 1)another, other it is translated AV — other(s) 81 times, another 62, some 11, one 4, misc 2 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, “I WILL SEND HIM UNTO YOU”. John 16:7 Did Jesus send the Father? Why didn't Jesus just simply say “I am going to send the Father to you”? But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit,”WHOM THE FATHER WILL SEND IN MY NAME”, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. John 14:26 Did the Father send himself? Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of “the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost“: Matt 28:19 Clearly the Holy Spirit like the Father and Jesus has an identity. None of these contradict 2 John 1:9 but rather give us more information. The doctrine of Christ is simply the “teachings of Christ” and his teaching clearly includes the person of the Holy Spirit who is distinct from the Father and Jesus, and I might add if you do not have the “Holy Spirit” included in your teachings then you do not have “God”, the Father and the Son! Quote (942767 @ Aug. 26 2009,21:04) The Comforter is God's Spirit, and proceeds from the Father: Quote Jhn 15:26 ¶ But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:   Marty, think about what you are saying. First of all your quote says that “Jesus” will send the “Comforter”, which you claim is the Father, does Jesus send the Father? Secondly,  you say “the Spirit proceeds from the Father”, but does the Father proceed from himself? You are claiming the Holy Spirit is the Father and yet your words contradict you! You quote… Quote Jhn 14:10   Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. So if the Holy Spirit is the Father then who is this…? And because ye are sons, God hath “*sent forth* the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, **CRYING, ABBA, FATHER**”. Gal 4:6 Is the Father “Crying Abba Father”? Or is it the Spirit of Jesus, and if it is the Spirit of Jesus then it cannot be the personal Spirit of the Father for then you would have 2 Spirits and scriptures say we have recieved only “One Spirit”. Quote (942767 @ Aug. 26 2009,21:04) The comforter is the same Spirit that dwelt within Jesus whom he calls the Father dwelling within him, and Jesus states the following: Quote Jhn 14:17   [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. Quote Jhn 14:23   Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. But you said… Quote (942767 @ Aug. 26 2009,21:04) The Comforter is God's Spirit, and proceeds from the Father: Does the Father “Proceed” from himself? Does the Father send himself? Quote (942767 @ Aug. 26 2009,21:04) Do we agree that the Comforter is the Holy Spirit of God? Yes, but I do not believe as you that the “Comforter” is the personal Spirit of the Father. Think about your words again, if you say the Holy Spirit is the Father then lets inject the Father in your statement and see what it looks like… Quote (942767 @ Aug. 26 2009,21:04) Do we agree that the (Father) is the Holy Spirit of God? Jesus could have easily said the Father was the comforter, but he didn't did he? The Holy Spirit is not the personal Spirit of the Father as my point in the following quotes you give will show…. Quote 1Cr 2:9   But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 1Cr 2:10   But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 1Cr 2:11   For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.   1Cr 2:12  Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.   1Cr 2:13   Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.   1Cr 2:14   But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned The Spirit here is the “Holy Spirit” which context brings out in the following verse… Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, “but which **THE HOLY GHOST** teacheth”; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 2 Cor 2:13 This is the same “Holy Spirit”, Comforter, Jesus spoke of that the Father and himself **WOULD SEND** that would teach us all things! Quote (942767 @ Aug. 26 2009,21:04) The “Trinity doctrine” is false because it teaches that God exists in three persons and they are co-equal in authority, and the scriptures teach that there is “One God” who is the Father of all born again believers and is above all (including Jesus), and the scriptures teach that Jesus is a man and not God, and that he is the Christ, the Son of the Living God, and the scriptures teach that the Holy Spirit is not a “Third Person” but is God's Spirit. Seriously, Try this… Close your eyes and put your feet together and tap your heels together 3 times and say after each time “There is no Trinity”, “There is No Trinity”, “There is no Trinity” and see if that will make the Trinity disappear! Quote (942767 @ Aug. 26 2009,21:04) Now regarding Romans 8:26-27, It appears that the Holy Spirit reveals what is in a persons heart with groanings that are unuterrable.  If this is groanings that are unuterable, this would not be the same as the “gift tongues” which is a prayer language nor would it be the same as God speaking in a tongue to His people or in what happened at Pentecost. It appears to me that Romans 8:27 refers to Jesus who searches the heart and knows what the Spirit means by the groanings that are unuterable, and then he prays to God for what is needed by the person according to the will of God. HE THAT SEARCHES THE HEART (JESUS) KNOWETH WHAT (IS) THE MIND OF THE SPIRIT, BECAUSE HE (JESUS) MAKETH INTERCESSION FOR THE SAINTS ACCORDING TO (THE WILL OF) GOD Love in Christ, Marty You are totally putting your head in the sand here IMO. Verse 26 says ‘The Spirit himself intercedes” for us, which you have said is not Jesus praying in us, yet now you are invoking “THE SPIRIT **INTERCEDES** FOR THE SAINTS IN ACCORDANCE WITH GOD'S WILL” in verse 27 as being Jesus. Read the verses and tell me what the words “Pray” and “Intercession” means to you if it is not the prayer language. In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to PRAY FOR, but “THE SPIRIT HIMSELF **INTERCEDES**” for us with groans “that words cannot express“. And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because “THE SPIRIT **INTERCEDES** FOR THE SAINTS IN ACCORDANCE WITH GOD'S WILL”.  . Rom 8:26, 27 The subject of Rom 8:26, 27 is the Holy Spirit praying for the saints, making intercession with unutterable words to the Father according to the Fathers will. These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, “praying in the Holy Ghost”, Jude 1:19, 20 True disciples, or followers of the Way preach and teach the Father, Son and Holy Spirit according to Jesus own words… ”GO YE THEREFORE, AND TEACH ALL NATIONS, BAPTIZING THEM “IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, AND OF THE SON, AND OF THE HOLY GHOST: TEACHING THEM TO OBSERVE **ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU**: AND, LO, I AM WITH YOU ALWAY, EVEN UNTO THE END OF THE WORLD. AMEN”. Matt 28:19, 20 The all things that he commanded us is the “doctrine”, or teachings of Christ! Blessings WJ

Hi WJ:

We are going around and around the same mulberry bush and accomplishing nothing, and so, I am simply going to pray that God will correct you or me regarding this matter.

I love you and want God's very best for you and your family.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 07 2009,16:28)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 06 2009,08:38) Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 04 2009,21:18) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 02 2009,19:24) Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 02 2009,02:56) The Catholic church is not a man made orgainization unless you are referring to the God-man Jesus Christ. Hi CA Where is the Biblical and Historical link of the Catholic Church to Jesus and the original 12? WJ It is replete throughout Scripture, the fathers, the councils. Where would you like me to start? HI CA I do not see the words Catholic, or Pope, or the the acknowedgement of Peter being the chief leader of the Apostles anywhere in the scritpures! WJ Your litmus test for truth is incomplete and faulty since your statement included “I” don't see.   You are not the final arbiter of truth for your own life.

Hi CA

True. The Holy Spirit is!

And you are not either!

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (942767 @ Sep. 07 2009,17:12)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 01 2009,13:01) Hi Marty Quote (942767 @ Aug. 26 2009,21:04) Hi WJ: And so, you are saying that the following scripture is a lie? Quote 2Jo 1:9   Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. No that is the whole point we have been making all along, that anti-Trinitarians pit scriptures against one another, or just accept some and reject others to support their manmade doctrines. By the scripture you quote above you are trying to prove a positive with a negative. I show you scriptures which are unambiguous proof that there are three, The Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and you give me a scripture that only mentions Jesus and the Father then proceed to claim that because the Holy Spirit is not in the verse that is proof that the Holy Spirit is not a distinct person, and in so doing deny Jesus own words in the following scriptures, and refuse to give an explanation for them… And I will ask the Father, and he will give you “ANOTHER COUNSELOR” to be with you forever– John 14:16 The word another is…Strong's G243 – allos, and simply means; 1)another, other it is translated AV — other(s) 81 times, another 62, some 11, one 4, misc 2 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, “I WILL SEND HIM UNTO YOU”. John 16:7 Did Jesus send the Father? Why didn't Jesus just simply say “I am going to send the Father to you”? But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit,”WHOM THE FATHER WILL SEND IN MY NAME”, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. John 14:26 Did the Father send himself? Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of “the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost“: Matt 28:19 Clearly the Holy Spirit like the Father and Jesus has an identity. None of these contradict 2 John 1:9 but rather give us more information. The doctrine of Christ is simply the “teachings of Christ” and his teaching clearly includes the person of the Holy Spirit who is distinct from the Father and Jesus, and I might add if you do not have the “Holy Spirit” included in your teachings then you do not have “God”, the Father and the Son! Quote (942767 @ Aug. 26 2009,21:04) The Comforter is God's Spirit, and proceeds from the Father: Quote Jhn 15:26 ¶ But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:   Marty, think about what you are saying. First of all your quote says that “Jesus” will send the “Comforter”, which you claim is the Father, does Jesus send the Father? Secondly,  you say “the Spirit proceeds from the Father”, but does the Father proceed from himself? You are claiming the Holy Spirit is the Father and yet your words contradict you! You quote… Quote Jhn 14:10   Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. So if the Holy Spirit is the Father then who is this…? And because ye are sons, God hath “*sent forth* the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, **CRYING, ABBA, FATHER**”. Gal 4:6 Is the Father “Crying Abba Father”? Or is it the Spirit of Jesus, and if it is the Spirit of Jesus then it cannot be the personal Spirit of the Father for then you would have 2 Spirits and scriptures say we have recieved only “One Spirit”. Quote (942767 @ Aug. 26 2009,21:04) The comforter is the same Spirit that dwelt within Jesus whom he calls the Father dwelling within him, and Jesus states the following: Quote Jhn 14:17   [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. Quote Jhn 14:23   Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. But you said… Quote (942767 @ Aug. 26 2009,21:04) The Comforter is God's Spirit, and proceeds from the Father: Does the Father “Proceed” from himself? Does the Father send himself? Quote (942767 @ Aug. 26 2009,21:04) Do we agree that the Comforter is the Holy Spirit of God? Yes, but I do not believe as you that the “Comforter” is the personal Spirit of the Father. Think about your words again, if you say the Holy Spirit is the Father then lets inject the Father in your statement and see what it looks like… Quote (942767 @ Aug. 26 2009,21:04) Do we agree that the (Father) is the Holy Spirit of God? Jesus could have easily said the Father was the comforter, but h e didn't did he? The Holy Spirit is not the personal Spirit of the Father as my point in the following quotes you give will show…. Quote 1Cr 2:9   But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 1Cr 2:10   But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 1Cr 2:11   For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.   1Cr 2:12  Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.   1Cr 2:13   Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.   1Cr 2:14   But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned The Spirit here is the “Holy Spirit” which context brings out in the following verse… Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, “but which **THE HOLY GHOST** teacheth”; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 2 Cor 2:13 This is the same “Holy Spirit”, Comforter, Jesus spoke of that the Father and himself **WOULD SEND** that would teach us all things! Quote (942767 @ Aug. 26 2009,21:04) The “Trinity doctrine” is false because it teaches that God exists in three persons and they are co-equal in authority, and the scriptures teach that there is “One God” who is the Father of all born again believers and is above all (including Jesus), and the scriptures teach that Jesus is a man and not God, and that he is the Christ, the Son of the Living God, and the scriptures teach that the Holy Spirit is not a “Third Person” but is God's Spirit. Seriously, Try this… Close your eyes and put your feet together and tap your heels together 3 times and say after each time “There is no Trinity”, “There is No Trinity”, “There is no Trinity” and see if that will make the Trinity disappear! Quote (942767 @ Aug. 26 2009,21:04) Now regarding Romans 8:26-27, It appears that the Holy Spirit reveals what is in a persons heart with groanings that are unuterrable.  If this is groanings that are unuterable, this would not be the same as the “gift tongues” which is a prayer language nor would it be the same as God speaking in a tongue to His people or in what happened at Pentecost. It appears to me that Romans 8:27 refers to Jesus who searches the heart and knows what the Spirit means by the groanings that are unuterable, and then he prays to God for what is needed by the person according to the will of God. HE THAT SEARCHES THE HEART (JESUS) KNOWETH WHAT (IS) THE MIND OF THE SPIRIT, BECAUSE HE (JESUS) MAKETH INTERCESSION FOR THE SAINTS ACCORDING TO (THE WILL OF) GOD Love in Christ, Marty You are totally putting your head in the sand here IMO. Verse 26 says ‘The Spirit himself intercedes” for us, which you have said is not Jesus praying in us, yet now you are invoking “THE SPIRIT **INTERCEDES** FOR THE SAINTS IN ACCORDANCE WITH GOD'S WILL” in verse 27 as being Jesus. Read the verses and tell me what the words “Pray” and “Intercession” means to you if it is not the prayer language. In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to PRAY FOR, but “THE SPIRIT HIMSELF **INTERCEDES**” for us with groans “that words cannot express“. And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because “THE SPIRIT **INTERCEDES** FOR THE SAINTS IN ACCORDANCE WITH GOD'S WILL”.  . Rom 8:26, 27 The subject of Rom 8:26, 27 is the Holy Spirit praying for the saints, making intercession with unutterable words to the Father according to the Fathers will. These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, “praying in the Holy Ghost”, Jude 1:19, 20 True disciples, or followers of the Way preach and teach the Father, Son and Holy Spirit according to Jesus own words… ”GO YE THEREFORE, AND TEACH ALL NATIONS, BAPTIZING THEM “IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, AND OF THE SON, AND OF THE HOLY GHOST: TEACHING THEM TO OBSERVE **ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU**: AND, LO, I AM WITH YOU ALWAY, EVEN UNTO THE END OF THE WORLD. AMEN”. Matt 28:19, 20 The all things that he commanded us is the “doctrine”, or teachings of Christ! Blessings WJ Hi WJ: We are going around and around the same mulberry bush and accomplishing nothing, and so, I am simply going to pray that God will correct you or me regarding this matter. I love you and want God's very best for you and your family. Love in Christ, Marty

94

Nah! I wouldn't say accomplishing nothing, for you maybe, but not for listeners who desire to know the whole council of God.

But I do pray that you will see that the Holy Spirit (the Comfoter) was sent by the Father and Jesus and that he is not just a “Thing” or “IT” of God like some have proposed!

Blessings to you also.

WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
the WHOLE COUNSEL of God is usually an excuse for adding to scripture.

[942767]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 10 2009,02:34)

Quote (942767 @ Sep. 07 2009,17:12) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 01 2009,13:01) Hi Marty Quote (942767 @ Aug. 26 2009,21:04) Hi WJ: And so, you are saying that the following scripture is a lie? Quote 2Jo 1:9   Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. No that is the whole point we have been making all along, that anti-Trinitarians pit scriptures against one another, or just accept some and reject others to support their manmade doctrines. By the scripture you quote above you are trying to prove a positive with a negative. I show you scriptures which are unambiguous proof that there are three, The Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and you give me a scripture that only mentions Jesus and the Father then proceed to claim that because the Holy Spirit is not in the verse that is proof that the Holy Spirit is not a distinct person, and in so doing deny Jesus own words in the following scriptures, and refuse to give an explanation for them… And I will ask the Father, and he will give you “ANOTHER COUNSELOR” to be with you forever– John 14:16 The word another is…Strong's G243 – allos, and simply means; 1)another, other it is translated AV — other(s) 81 times, another 62, some 11, one 4, misc 2 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, “I WILL SEND HIM UNTO YOU”. John 16:7 Did Jesus send the Father? Why didn't Jesus just simply say “I am going to send the Father to you”? But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit,”WHOM THE FATHER WILL SEND IN MY NAME”, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. John 14:26 Did the Father send himself? Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of “the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost“: Matt 28:19 Clearly the Holy Spirit like the Father and Jesus has an identity. None of these contradict 2 John 1:9 but rather give us more information. The doctrine of Christ is simply the “teachings of Christ” and his teaching clearly includes the person of the Holy Spirit who is distinct from the Father and Jesus, and I might add if you do not have the “Holy Spirit” included in your teachings then you do not have “God”, the Father and the Son! Quote (942767 @ Aug. 26 2009,21:04) The Comforter is God's Spirit, and proceeds from the Father: Quote Jhn 15:26 ¶ But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:   Marty, think about what you are saying. First of all your quote says that “Jesus” will send the “Comforter”, which you claim is the Father, does Jesus send the Father? Secondly,  you say “the Spirit proceeds from the Father”, but does the Father proceed from himself? You are claiming the Holy Spirit is the Father and yet your words contradict you! You quote… Quote Jhn 14:10   Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. So if the Holy Spirit is the Father then who is this…? And because ye are sons, God hath “*sent forth* the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, **CRYING, ABBA, FATHER**”. Gal 4:6 Is the Father “Crying Abba Father”? Or is it the Spirit of Jesus, and if it is the Spirit of Jesus then it cannot be the personal Spirit of the Father for then you would have 2 Spirits and scriptures say we have recieved only “One Spirit”. Quote (942767 @ Aug. 26 2009,21:04) The comforter is the same Spirit that dwelt within Jesus whom he calls the Father dwelling within him, and Jesus states the following: Quote Jhn 14:17   [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. Quote Jhn 14:23   Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. But you said… Quote (942767 @ Aug. 26 2009,21:04) The Comforter is God's Spirit, and proceeds from the Father: Does the Father “Proceed” from himself? Does the Father send himself? Quote (942767 @ Aug. 26 2009,21:04) Do we agree that the Comforter is the Holy Spirit of God? Yes, but I do not believe as you that the “Comforter” is the personal Spirit of the Father. Think about your words again, if you say the Holy Spirit is the Father then lets inject the Father in your statement and see what it looks like… Quote (942767 @ Aug. 26 2009,21:04) Do we agree that the (Father) is the Holy Spirit of God? Jesus could have easily said the Father was the comforter, but he didn't did he? The Holy Spirit is not the personal Spirit of the Father as my point in the following quotes you give will show…. Quote 1Cr 2:9   But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 1Cr 2:10   But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 1Cr 2:11   For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.   1Cr 2:12  Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.   1Cr 2:13   Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.   1Cr 2:14   But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned The Spirit here is the “Holy Spirit” which context brings out in the following verse… Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, “but which **THE HOLY GHOST** teacheth”; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 2 Cor 2:13 This is the same “Holy Spirit”, Comforter, Jesus spoke of that the Father and himself **WOULD SEND** that would teach us all things! Quote (942767 @ Aug. 26 2009,21:04) The “Trinity doctrine” is false because it teaches that God exists in three persons and they are co-equal in authority, and the scriptures teach that there is “One God” who is the Father of all born again believers and is above all (including Jesus), and the scriptures teach that Jesus is a man and not God, and that he is the Christ, the Son of the Living God, and the scriptures teach that the Holy Spirit is not a “Third Person” but is God's Spirit. Seriously, Try this… Close your eyes and put your feet together and tap your heels together 3 times and say after each time “There is no Trinity”, “There is No Trinity”, “There is no Trinity” and see if that will make the Trinity disappear! Quote (942767 @ Aug. 26 2009,21:04) Now regarding Romans 8:26-27, It appears that the Holy Spirit reveals what is in a persons heart with groanings that are unuterrable.  If this is groanings that are unuterable, this would not be the same as the “gift tongues” which is a prayer language nor would it be the same as God speaking in a tongue to His people or in what happened at Pentecost. It appears to me that Romans 8:27 refers to Jesus who searches the heart and knows what the Spirit means by the groanings that are unuterable, and then he prays to God for what is needed by the person according to the will of God. HE THAT SEARCHES THE HEART (JESUS) KNOWETH WHAT (IS) THE MIND OF THE SPIRIT, BECAUSE HE (JESUS) MAKETH INTERCESSION FOR THE SAINTS ACCORDING TO (THE WILL OF) GOD Love in Christ, Marty You are totally putting your head in the sand here IMO. Verse 26 says ‘The Spirit himself intercedes” for us, which you have said is not Jesus praying in us, yet now you are invoking “THE SPIRIT **INTERCEDES** FOR THE SAINTS IN ACCORDANCE WITH GOD'S WILL” in verse 27 as being Jesus. Read the verses and tell me what the words “Pray” and “Intercession” means to you if it is not the prayer language. In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to PRAY FOR, but “THE SPIRIT HIMSELF **INTERCEDES**” for us with groans “that words cannot express“. And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because “THE SPIRIT **INTERCEDES** FOR THE SAINTS IN ACCORDANCE WITH GOD'S WILL”.  . Rom 8:26, 27 The subject of Rom 8:26, 27 is the Holy Spirit praying for the saints, making intercession with unutterable words to the Father according to the Fathers will. These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, “praying in the Holy Ghost”, Jude 1:19, 20 True disciples, or followers of the Way preach and teach the Father, Son and Holy Spirit according to Jesus own words… ”GO YE THEREFORE, AND TEACH ALL NATIONS, BAPTIZING THEM “IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, AND OF THE SON, AND OF THE HOLY GHOST: TEACHING THEM TO OBSERVE **ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU**: AND, LO, I AM WITH YOU ALWAY, EVEN UNTO THE END OF THE WORLD. AMEN”. Matt 28:19, 20 The all things that he commanded us is the “doctrine”, or teachings of Christ! Blessings WJ Hi WJ: We are going around and around the same mulberry bush and accomplishing nothing, and so, I am simply going to pray that God will correct you or me regarding this matter. I love you and want God's very best for you and your family. Love in Christ, Marty 94 Nah! I wouldn't say accomplishing nothing, for you maybe, but not for listeners who desire to know the whole council of God. But I do pray that you will see that the Holy Spirit (the Comfoter) was sent by the Father and Jesus and that he is not just a “Thing” or “IT” of God like some have proposed! Blessings to you also. WJ

Hi WJ:

I have never stated that the Holy Spirit is and it or a thing, but what I have stated is that the Holy Spirit is God's Spirit and not a third person.

1 Co 2:10 plainly tells us this. The scripture states plainly:

Quote

But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit:

I do not want to teach anything that is not God's Word, and so, I ask in prayer every morning that He correct me if I am teaching anything that is not His Word or doing anything that is not His will.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Worshipping Jesus]

Hi Marty

Quote (942767 @ Sep. 09 2009,18:13)

Hi WJ: I have never stated that the Holy Spirit is and it or a thing, but what I have stated is that the Holy Spirit is God's Spirit and not a third person. 1 Co 2:10 plainly tells us this.  The scripture states plainly:   Quote But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: I do not want to teach anything that is not God's Word, and so, I ask in prayer every morning that He correct me if I am teaching anything that is not His Word or doing anything that is not His will. Love in Christ, Marty

Wel then that would leave you only 2 options then. The Holy Spirit is the Father or the Holy Spirit is “Another” person.

Good luck on reconciling all scripture on the Holy Spirit being the Father!

WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
Has the finger of God not reached you yet?[lk11]

[942767]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 10 2009,10:57)

Hi Marty Quote (942767 @ Sep. 09 2009,18:13) Hi WJ: I have never stated that the Holy Spirit is and it or a thing, but what I have stated is that the Holy Spirit is God's Spirit and not a third person. 1 Co 2:10 plainly tells us this.  The scripture states plainly:   Quote But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: I do not want to teach anything that is not God's Word, and so, I ask in prayer every morning that He correct me if I am teaching anything that is not His Word or doing anything that is not His will. Love in Christ, Marty Wel then that would leave you only 2 options then. The Holy Spirit is the Father or the Holy Spirit is “Another” person. Good luck on reconciling all scripture on the Holy Spirit being the Father! WJ

Hi WJ:

The Holy Spirit is the Father in that a person is defined by the life that he lives. God is Holy and is love, and we know this by what he says and does.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (942767 @ Sep. 09 2009,19:10)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 10 2009,10:57) Hi Marty Quote (942767 @ Sep. 09 2009,18:13) Hi WJ: I have never stated that the Holy Spirit is and it or a thing, but what I have stated is that the Holy Spirit is God's Spirit and not a third person. 1 Co 2:10 plainly tells us this.  The scripture states plainly:   Quote But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: I do not want to teach anything that is not God's Word, and so, I ask in prayer every morning that He correct me if I am teaching anything that is not His Word or doing anything that is not His will. Love in Christ, Marty Wel then that would leave you only 2 options then. The Holy Spirit is the Father or the Holy Spirit is “Another” person. Good luck on reconciling all scripture on the Holy Spirit being the Father! WJ Hi WJ: The Holy Spirit is the Father in that a person is defined by the life that he lives.  God is Holy and is love, and we know this by what he says and does. Love in Christ, Marty

Hi Marty

Jesus words disagree with you!

And I will ask the Father, and he will give you “another Counselor” to be with you forever– John 14:16

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in* the name of “the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit“, Matt 28:19

How are you going to explain these scriptures to your “Trinitarian” congregation?

Blessings WJ

[KangarooJack]

WorshippingJesus said:

Quote

Hi Marty Jesus words disagree with you! And I will ask the Father, and he will give you “another Counselor” to be with you forever– John 14:16

Hi Keith,

Jesus clearly distinguished the Holy Spirit from the Father and from Himself by referring to the Spirit as “another” (allos, i.e., different, Strong's# 243).

thinker

[NickHassan]

Hi TT,
ANOTHER helper?
Jesus in heaven helps us as advocate and sends us the Spirit he shares with God as well.

[942767]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 10 2009,12:03)

Quote (942767 @ Sep. 09 2009,19:10) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 10 2009,10:57) Hi Marty Quote (942767 @ Sep. 09 2009,18:13) Hi WJ: I have never stated that the Holy Spirit is and it or a thing, but what I have stated is that the Holy Spirit is God's Spirit and not a third person. 1 Co 2:10 plainly tells us this.  The scripture states plainly:   Quote But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: I do not want to teach anything that is not God's Word, and so, I ask in prayer every morning that He correct me if I am teaching anything that is not His Word or doing anything that is not His will. Love in Christ, Marty Wel then that would leave you only 2 options then. The Holy Spirit is the Father or the Holy Spirit is “Another” person. Good luck on reconciling all scripture on the Holy Spirit being the Father! WJ Hi WJ: The Holy Spirit is the Father in that a person is defined by the life that he lives.  God is Holy and is love, and we know this by what he says and does. Love in Christ, Marty Hi Marty Jesus words disagree with you! And I will ask the Father, and he will give you “another Counselor” to be with you forever– John 14:16 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in* the name of “the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit“, Matt 28:19 How are you going to explain these scriptures to your “Trinitarian” congregation? Blessings WJ

Hi WJ:

You say that Jesus Words disagree with me, but maybe he doesn't.

He was a comforter to the disciples and was going to leave them and ascend to the right hand of the Father in His throne in heaven, but he explains that he is speaking of the Spirit of truth that was already dwelling with them, but would be in them, and this indeed happened at Pentecost.

And by the Spirit of truth he is speaking of the Holy Spirit because we have scripture that says that the Spirit of truth proceeds from the Father.

And se have scripture which says that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God. And since there is only one God, then the Holy Spirit must be the Spirit of God our Father.

Jesus also states that it is the Father dwelling within him that is doing the works.

And so, that is the explanation I give for the first scripture that you give.

As for the other, I would ask: why would Jesus say all power and authority has been given unto him, and them tell the disciples to baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost? It doesn't make sense, and especially since the Apostles baptized in the name of Jesus.

Scipture must be line upon line and precept upon precept, and so, I know you will accuse me of trying to throw the scripture out because it doesn't agree with my theology, but I am sceptical about this. This is similar to the following scripture:

Quote

1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

The NIV omits this verse of scripture and explains by the following footnote:

Quote

NIV Footnotes: (5:7-8) Late manuscripts of the Vulgate testify in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one. 8 And there are three that testify on earth: the (not found in any Greek manuscript before the sixteenth century)

It sound like to me someone is trying awfully hard to justify the “trinity doctrine”.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 19 2009,16:58)

Hi All! It is claimed by the Henotheist and the Arians that the Holy Spirit is not a person but rather an “It” or the Fathers personal Spirit or some claim that he is just an amorphous power. Also it is claimed that the Father does not live in us but only his Spirit which is an “It”, so that is how the Father lives in us! The title of this thread is “Did Jesus have the same spirit as believers?, Is god in you or an “it”?” It  has been constantly brought up by the anti-Trinitarians that Jesus didn’t do any miracle or in fact anything on his own, implying that it is the Father God in him, therefore implying that Jesus was some sort of puppet on a string that doesn’t deserve to get any glory for anything that he did! But wait a minute, according to their theology the Father himself is not in the believer.  Yet what is funny is that when it is convenient they claim that the Father is in him! If Jesus is our example and the “Father is in him” then the Father is also in us! So basically they are calling Jesus a liar when they say the Father personally is not in him when he says… But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that “the Father is in me, and I in the Father”. John 10:38 Jesus clearly says that “The Father is in him”, however those with Arian glasses on always love to point out that if the Father was in Jesus then he cannot be God, yet Jesus wanted those who heard his words know that he was also in the Father which of course does not prove the Father is not God. Jesus statement is actually claiming equality with the Father for he is making himself equal to the Father by saying he is also in the Father! Some will say that we are in the Father, but that is only because we are in him (Jesus). Jesus also said… Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: “the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. John 10:25 This is also an amazing statement of equality for Jesus is claiming that the works “HE DOES” in the Fathers name “bear witness of him”, and to confirm this later in the chapter he says… ”And I give unto them eternal life”; and they shall never perish, “neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand”. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I AND MY FATHER ARE ONE. verse 30 Little wonder the Jews took up stones to stone him because they are hearing him say that “His works testify of him” and tops it with “He is one with the Father or God”. A couple of things to note in these passages are that Jesus claims to be able to give “Eternal life to his sheep’. This must infuriate them because no man could give life to anything or anyone especially “eternal life”, not to mention Jesus claims Gods people as his sheep! Also, it must further infuriate them by making himself equal to the Father by saying equally with the Father, “no man can pluck them out of his hand” and claim in the same breath that “his Father is greater than all and that he is one with the Father”. To this day it infuriates the gainsayers to claim that Jesus is God, one with the Father. Then Jesus clarifies that his works are the Fathers as well as his… ”If I do not the works of my Father”, believe me not. “But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, “that the Father is in me, and I in him”. John 10:37, 38 Therefore Jesus is making very clear that the Father dwells in him and he dwells in the Father. If the Father is not in Jesus then Jesus is not in the Father, and if Jesus and the Father are not in us then we are not in them Which brings us to the question, “Did Jesus have the same spirit as believers?, Is god in you or an “it”?”. We know that Jesus was given the Holy Spirit without measure, and we know that by that same Spirit he did many works, for the Father and the Spirit were present in him also doing the works! Conclusion; If the Holy Spirit was given to Jesus without measure then the Holy Spirit could not be the Fathers personal Spirit for the Spirit was given, therefore the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit lived in Jesus and lives in the believers today! Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize “that Christ Jesus is in you–unless, of course, you fail the test“? 2 Cor 13:5 WJ

Just saw this thread and thought I would bring it up again,,,

Blessings to all!

WJ

[terraricca]

JW

HOW IS 2cOR 13;5

DOES IN ANY WAY SUPPORT THE TRINITY ,WHEN PAUL SHOW THAT IT IS OUR CONDUCT AND OUR MIND THAT SHOULD BE IN THE SAME MANNER THAN CHRIST

2Co 13:1 This will be my third visit to you. “Every matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.”
2Co 13:2 I already gave you a warning when I was with you the second time. I now repeat it while absent: On my return I will not spare those who sinned earlier or any of the others,
2Co 13:3 since you are demanding proof that Christ is speaking through me. He is not weak in dealing with you, but is powerful among you.
2Co 13:4 For to be sure, he was crucified in weakness, yet he lives by God’s power. Likewise, we are weak in him, yet by God’s power we will live with him to serve you.
2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test?
2Co 13:6 And I trust that you will discover that we have not failed the test.
2Co 13:7 Now we pray to God that you will not do anything wrong. Not that people will see that we have stood the test but that you will do what is right even though we may seem to have failed.
2Co 13:8 For we cannot do anything against the truth, but only for the truth.
2Co 13:9 We are glad whenever we are weak but you are strong; and our prayer is for your perfection.
2Co 13:10 This is why I write these things when I am absent, that when I come I may not have to be harsh in my use of authority—the authority the Lord gave me for building you up, not for tearing you down.

ADDING TO THE ABOVE ;

Jn 17:6 “I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.
Jn 17:7 Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you.
Jn 17:8 For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me.
Jn 17:9 I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours.
Jn 17:10 All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them.
Jn 17:11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name—the name you gave me—so that they may be one as we are one.

[Wakeup]

The trinity worshippers believe that God DIED on the cross.
We believe that God's Son *DIED* on the cross.

They believe that the *DYING GOD* was crying to *himself*,
saying; My God, My God, Why have you forsaken Me.

They(trinies) also believe that God resurrected *HIMSELF*.
This only means that God was *not really dead*.

We are only to believe that He is dead; but
He is alive and well. We have been fooled by God.

Therefore there is no such as: God gave His son,because he was not dead. Just pretend to be dead.

*Our* God has never experienced death.
If God had died;the whole universe would have lost control.
Because all things are framed by the Word of God.
God did not die,but His Son died. Really truly dead,no pretence.

wakeup.

wakeup.

[Author]

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