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Barley,
Romans 14
New International Version (NIV)1 Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.
Numbers 30:2
New International Version (NIV)2 When a man makes a vow to the LORD or takes an oath to obligate himself by a pledge, he must not break his word but must do everything he said.
The Law of Mosses is an oath by the Children of Israel to obey all that is written in the Law which is why Jesus teaches the Jews.
Matthew 5:19
New International Version (NIV)19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Galatians 5
New International Version (NIV)22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Yes KW,
Jesus spoke to the jews about THEIR Law.
We were never under that LAW.[Rom2-3]
Now we can be under the Law of the Spirit.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 24 2012,14:08) Hi t,
We do not USE the Spirit.
To be useful we have to let the Spirit use us
Hi Nick,Amen to that!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 02 2012,02:01) Yes KW,
Jesus spoke to the jews about THEIR Law.
We were never under that LAW.[Rom2-3]
Now we can be under the Law of the Spirit.
Nick,Those who live by the Spirit of God will keep their oath to God.
The Children of Israel are bound to the oath of obeying the Law.
That is part of their service to God. The New Covenant does not do away with that oath.
It is foolish to teach anyone to violate their oath to God. Gentiles are not bound by that oath.So I agree with you.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 02 2012,07:34) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 02 2012,02:01) Yes KW,
Jesus spoke to the jews about THEIR Law.
We were never under that LAW.[Rom2-3]
Now we can be under the Law of the Spirit.
Nick,Those who live by the Spirit of God will keep their oath to God.
The Children of Israel are bound to the oath of obeying the Law.
That is part of their service to God. The New Covenant does not do away with that oath.
It is foolish to teach anyone to violate their oath to God. Gentiles are not bound by that oath.So I agree with you.
Kerwin,Paul made it very clear that all are dead to the law.
I am sure, that Paul, as a Pharisee, was deeply aware of God's covenant with Israel.
Romans 7:1-6
1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
barley
Barley,
If Paul violated even the least of the commandments and taught others to do likewise the accusations of those he called false brothers would be true. He did not and those accusations are false.
Galatians 5
King James Version (KJV)22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.Paul in this post makes the argument that righteousness is not sinful. A person who does all that is right is dead to the law because they act in accordance with the righteous requirements of the law.
That is why Paul also wrote:
Romans 6
King James Version (KJV)14For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 03 2012,17:31) Barley, If Paul violated even the least of the commandments and taught others to do likewise the accusations of those he called false brothers would be true. He did not and those accusations are false.
Galatians 5
King James Version (KJV)22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.Paul in this post makes the argument that righteousness is not sinful. A person who does all that is right is dead to the law because they act in accordance with the righteous requirements of the law.
That is why Paul also wrote:
Romans 6
King James Version (KJV)14For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Kerwin,That is exactly right, we are not under law, that includes the former Judeans that Paul taught and that includes himself.
We live by grace, a better, higher calling.
Paul was not without sin. He was blameless according to the law, but was murdering those who believed on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ according to the law?
barley
Barley,
Believers are not under Law as they have received the grace of the Holy Spirit. Those that are under the Law have not received that grace. The law had a grace of its own that allowed those that sinned in ignorance, such as Paul, to be forgiven. It gave no one the power to overcome their sins.
Scripture states the Jewish believers were zealous for the law and concerned with rumors that Paul was teaching Jews to turn away from Moses. That concern James and Paul moved to address by having Paul purify himself in obedience to the Law, Acts 21:20-24.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 04 2012,10:22) Barley, Believers are not under Law as they have received the grace of the Holy Spirit. Those that are under the Law have not received that grace. The law had a grace of its own that allowed those that sinned in ignorance, such as Paul, to be forgiven. It gave no one the power to overcome their sins.
Scripture states the Jewish believers were zealous for the law and concerned with rumors that Paul was teaching Jews to turn away from Moses. That concern James and Paul moved to address by having Paul purify himself in obedience to the Law, Acts 21:20-24.
Hi Kerwin:The sacrifice of Jesus washes away the sin of those Jews who were under the Law prior to the ministry of Jesus, but now, the gospel is to be preached to every creature.
Quote Rom 3:19Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Rom 3:20Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Mar. 04 2012,08:27) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 04 2012,10:22) Barley, Believers are not under Law as they have received the grace of the Holy Spirit. Those that are under the Law have not received that grace. The law had a grace of its own that allowed those that sinned in ignorance, such as Paul, to be forgiven. It gave no one the power to overcome their sins.
Scripture states the Jewish believers were zealous for the law and concerned with rumors that Paul was teaching Jews to turn away from Moses. That concern James and Paul moved to address by having Paul purify himself in obedience to the Law, Acts 21:20-24.
Hi Kerwin:The sacrifice of Jesus washes away the sin of those Jews who were under the Law prior to the ministry of Jesus, but now, the gospel is to be preached to every creature.
Quote Rom 3:19Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Rom 3:20Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,In Acts 21:20-24.
What does zealous for the law mean?
Why did James advise Paul to be purified in accordance with the Law?
Was the accusation that Paul was teaching Jews to abandon Mosses true?
God states those that those under the Law that have a female lamb sacrificed will be forgiven their sins, Leviticus 4:32-35. We know Scripture cannot be broken and that Jesus did not come to save a few lambs. His act of self sacrifice achieved more than the sacrifice of animals.
Hi Kerwin:
You ask:
Quote What does zealous for the law mean? It means that the were devout Jews, just as Paul had been prior to his Damascus Road experience:
Quote Act 22:3 I am verily a man [which am] a Jew, born in Tarsus, [a city] in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, [and] taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day. Act 22:4 And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.
And:
Quote Why did James advise Paul to be purified in accordance with the Law? Because the Jews would have killed him.
Quote Act 21:10 And as we tarried [there] many days, there came down from Judaea a certain prophet, named Agabus. Act 21:11 And when he was come unto us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver [him] into the hands of the Gentiles
And:
Quote Was the accusation that Paul was teaching Jews to abandon Mosses true? No, not for the sake of abandoning Moses, but he was speaking to Jews who had been converted and had received the Holy Spirit, saying to them that it was not necessary for gentiles who had been converted to be circumsized, and explaining to them what the act of circumsizing meant. This was a transitional period and it was not an easy thing to do.
And:
Quote God states those that those under the Law that have a female lamb sacrificed will be forgiven their sins, Leviticus 4:32-35. We know Scripture cannot be broken and that Jesus did not come to save a few lambs. His act of self sacrifice achieved more than the sacrifice of animals. The blood of animals in the OT was symbolic of the blood that Jesus would shed for the sins of all who obeyed God under the OT. But the blood of animals did not wash away their sins. (Read Hebrews 9)
Love in Christ,
MartyMarty,
Quote It means that they were devout Jews, just as Paul had been prior to his Damascus Road experience: I agree that they are devout Jews but they are also believers according to that Scripture. The two are not incompatible.
Quote Because the Jews would have killed him. Though you are correct that unbelieving Jews were out to kill him, James is speaking of believing Jews in Acts 21:20-24. The purification was to show those believers Paul was “living in obedience to the law” according to verse 24.
Quote No, not for the sake of abandoning Moses, but he was speaking to Jews who had been converted and had received the Holy Spirit, saying to them that it was not necessary for gentiles who had been converted to be circumcised, and explaining to them what the act of circumcising meant. This was a transitional period and it was not an easy thing to do. I agree with you that it is sinful to teach a Gentile they must become a Jew to be saved but it is also sinful to teach a Jew they must become a Gentile to be saved.
Quote The blood of animals in the OT was symbolic of the blood that Jesus would shed for the sins of all who obeyed God under the OT. But the blood of animals did not wash away their sins. (Read Hebrews 9) The blood of animals was indeed symbolic but not of atonement and forgiveness. Jesus died for something more. That more is that he “appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin”, Hebrews 9:26.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 05 2012,23:34) Hi,
Water baptism is the new circumcision.[coll 2. 9-13]
Nick,Could you read Acts 21:20-24 and answer why the Jewish believers were zealous for the Law and why Paul strove to demonstrate to them he was in obedience to the Law.
Hi Kerwin:
These Jewish believers were of the mind that gentile converts needed to be circumsized. Again, this was a transistional period from the OT covenant to the NT covenant, and it was difficult for them to understand why circumcision was not necessary for gentile converts.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Mar. 11 2012,08:02) Hi Kerwin: These Jewish believers were of the mind that gentile converts needed to be circumsized. Again, this was a transistional period from the OT covenant to the NT covenant, and it was difficult for them to understand why circumcision was not necessary for gentile converts.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,Acts does not tell us The Jewish believers were concerned that the Gentile believers not being circumcised. Their concern was that Paul was turning Jews away from the Law of Moses. It is that concern Paul addressed in his observance of the law.
It is true that some that lacked knowledge foolishly taught that one must be circumcised to be saved but that teaching is not even mainstream among the unbelieving Jews, as they teach of righteous Gentiles.
The inference of Acts 21:20-24 is that Paul was not teaching Jewish believers to turn away from the Law.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 06 2012,08:50) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 05 2012,23:34) Hi,
Water baptism is the new circumcision.[coll 2. 9-13]
Nick,Could you read Acts 21:20-24 and answer why the Jewish believers were zealous for the Law and why Paul strove to demonstrate to them he was in obedience to the Law.
Hi KW,
Paul chose the path of least disturbance of faith.The will of God was more important but if some should stumble because of less relevant legal issues he was happy to satisfy them.
He wanted no stumbling block to succeed against the new way.
He could have got involved in lengthy time wasting arguments with the legalists but what was the point if it could turn men away?
Faith is so precious but so volatile.
Nick,
Consider the words of Acts in light of this passage.
Romans 14
New American Standard Bible (NASB)1 Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions. 2 One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only. 3 The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him. 4 Who are you to judge the [a]servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
Hi Kerwin:
Quote Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command [them] to keep the law of Moses. Act 15:6 ¶ And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men [and] brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Love in Christ,
Marty
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