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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 12 2010,02:05) Hi KW,
We take thoughts captive and bring down speculations.
The promised land was occupied territory and had to be freed
The mind must be transformed by renewal according to the word of God.
Sounds good!Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 12 2010,13:32) Hi Georg,
Men offer themselves as the key to understanding the Word but they mainly get in the way of God's Spirit.
God can teach from His own Word if folk will let Him.
is this happen to you
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 24 2012,14:25) What about you T?
Ni do not get in the way of Gods spirit I use it to have light ,
each time someone use the words or the spirit there of ,and use it wrongly they stand in the way of the truth of God,and so preventing others to understand that truth.
if I do such a thing please correct me,
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 25 2009,07:01) Here is what Jesus Teaches On The Subject. Matthew 5:17-20(NIV) reads:
Quote “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
I take this scripture as being literal. Being that is so I do not know of “heaven and earth” disappearing. Since that is so and Jesus did not like then it follows that this teaching is binding to this day.
Then we come with this teaching of Paul which clearly appears to conflict with what Jesus teaches.
Ephesians 2:11-22(NIV) reads:
Quote Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (that done in the body by the hands of men)— remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.
So how can Paul teaching that Jesus abolished the law not conflict with Jesus teaching that he did not come to abolish the law. Hypothetically I am of the opinion that Paul is speaking figuratively to make the point that the barrier between Jews and Aliens “imposed” by the Law has been done away with.
Paul addresses this same barrier elsewhere with these words:
Galatians 2:11-12(NIV) reads:
Quote When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong. Before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group.
As you can see, Paul was faced with a group of Jews that was segregating themselves from the Gentiles. These Jews seemed to view themselves as more holy than the Gentiles because they followed Jewish traditions. From what I understand those Jews were zealous to keep the command to keep separate from the people of Canaan. Offhand it sounds like they took God’s words out of context.
Consider the purpose of the lawTo keep mankind in check till the redeemer comes.
Consider the curse of the law.
The curse of the law is abolished.
Righteousness never came by the law,
Galatians 2:19-21
For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.We fulfill the law by love, not by legalistic practices.
Romans 13:10
Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Romans 3:19-24
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:It is also noteworthy to recognize that two different Greek words are used in those two different passages.
Jesus Christ was to loose down, kataluo, the law
Paul speaks of katargeo, to make thoroughly inactive.
barley
Hi,
Galatians and Romans are unique in that they are written to jewish converts.
So the aspects of the relationship between the Law and the new Law of the Spirit are detailed thereBarley,
The law was only for Jews and converts to Judaism. There are examples of God fearing Gentiles in Scripture. Different laws applied to them as they were aliens to the children of Israel.
Could you please give what evidence you have to support your claim that the Law served to keep mankind in check?
I remember Paul teaching that the Law is a schoolmaster and I know all Scripture is good for teaching, correcting, and rebuking in righteousness.
I agree that those that live by the spirit of love fulfill the Law of God and not by human effort.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 01 2012,12:10) Barley, The law was only for Jews and converts to Judaism. There are examples of God fearing Gentiles in Scripture. Different laws applied to them as they were aliens to the children of Israel.
Could you please give what evidence you have to support your claim that the Law served to keep mankind in check?
I remember Paul teaching that the Law is a schoolmaster and I know all Scripture is good for teaching, correcting, and rebuking in righteousness.
I agree that those that live by the spirit of love fulfill the Law of God and not by human effort.
kwCould you please give what evidence you have to support your claim that the Law served to keep mankind in check?
good question;but the entire bible teaches that;if you dare to see it
what is a law ?? and is Gods law not above all laws
is it not the needs and the wants that men are in war with ??
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 01 2012,05:10) Barley, The law was only for Jews and converts to Judaism. There are examples of God fearing Gentiles in Scripture. Different laws applied to them as they were aliens to the children of Israel.
Could you please give what evidence you have to support your claim that the Law served to keep mankind in check?
I remember Paul teaching that the Law is a schoolmaster and I know all Scripture is good for teaching, correcting, and rebuking in righteousness.
I agree that those that live by the spirit of love fulfill the Law of God and not by human effort.
Kerwin,Maybe this is what you are looking for.
Romans 3:19-20
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
all the world may become guilty before God.
The world needed to know that God is not vacationing in Mexico.
barley
Hi,
In water baptism is the washing of guilty consciences.[1Peter 3.21]
We all need to repent unto forgiveness.Quote (barley @ Mar. 01 2012,00:47) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 01 2012,05:10) Barley, The law was only for Jews and converts to Judaism. There are examples of God fearing Gentiles in Scripture. Different laws applied to them as they were aliens to the children of Israel.
Could you please give what evidence you have to support your claim that the Law served to keep mankind in check?
I remember Paul teaching that the Law is a schoolmaster and I know all Scripture is good for teaching, correcting, and rebuking in righteousness.
I agree that those that live by the spirit of love fulfill the Law of God and not by human effort.
Kerwin,Maybe this is what you are looking for.
Romans 3:19-20
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
all the world may become guilty before God.
The world needed to know that God is not vacationing in Mexico.
barley
Barley,That passage is based on a similar idea expressed in these words of Jesus'.
Luke 12:48
King James Version (KJV)48But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 01 2012,05:31) Hi KW,
I believe Lk 12.42-48 relates to the tribunal of Christ.
Nick,I am just addressing the verse I quoted. Jesus teaches us that a person is judged according to what they know.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 01 2012,09:25) Quote (barley @ Mar. 01 2012,00:47) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 01 2012,05:10) Barley, The law was only for Jews and converts to Judaism. There are examples of God fearing Gentiles in Scripture. Different laws applied to them as they were aliens to the children of Israel.
Could you please give what evidence you have to support your claim that the Law served to keep mankind in check?
I remember Paul teaching that the Law is a schoolmaster and I know all Scripture is good for teaching, correcting, and rebuking in righteousness.
I agree that those that live by the spirit of love fulfill the Law of God and not by human effort.
Kerwin,Maybe this is what you are looking for.
Romans 3:19-20
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
all the world may become guilty before God.
The world needed to know that God is not vacationing in Mexico.
barley
Barley,That passage is based on a similar idea expressed in these words of Jesus'.
Luke 12:48
King James Version (KJV)48But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
I am not sure I see the relationship.Quote (barley @ Mar. 01 2012,10:44) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 01 2012,09:25) Quote (barley @ Mar. 01 2012,00:47) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 01 2012,05:10) Barley, The law was only for Jews and converts to Judaism. There are examples of God fearing Gentiles in Scripture. Different laws applied to them as they were aliens to the children of Israel.
Could you please give what evidence you have to support your claim that the Law served to keep mankind in check?
I remember Paul teaching that the Law is a schoolmaster and I know all Scripture is good for teaching, correcting, and rebuking in righteousness.
I agree that those that live by the spirit of love fulfill the Law of God and not by human effort.
Kerwin,Maybe this is what you are looking for.
Romans 3:19-20
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
all the world may become guilty before God.
The world needed to know that God is not vacationing in Mexico.
barley
Barley,That passage is based on a similar idea expressed in these words of Jesus'.
Luke 12:48
King James Version (KJV)48But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
I am not sure I see the relationship.
Barley,According To Jesus a person is judged according to what they know. Not knowing the law is a mitigating circumstance as the sin is made unknowingly. Those that know the law and break it are therefore guilty of a greater trespass.
This is only part of the teaching which teaches us that the Law teaches us what sin is but does not give us the power to overcome sin. Those that live by the law are chained to sin.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 01 2012,16:57) Quote (barley @ Mar. 01 2012,10:44) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 01 2012,09:25) Quote (barley @ Mar. 01 2012,00:47) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 01 2012,05:10) Barley, The law was only for Jews and converts to Judaism. There are examples of God fearing Gentiles in Scripture. Different laws applied to them as they were aliens to the children of Israel.
Could you please give what evidence you have to support your claim that the Law served to keep mankind in check?
I remember Paul teaching that the Law is a schoolmaster and I know all Scripture is good for teaching, correcting, and rebuking in righteousness.
I agree that those that live by the spirit of love fulfill the Law of God and not by human effort.
Kerwin,Maybe this is what you are looking for.
Romans 3:19-20
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
all the world may become guilty before God.
The world needed to know that God is not vacationing in Mexico.
barley
Barley,That passage is based on a similar idea expressed in these words of Jesus'.
Luke 12:48
King James Version (KJV)48But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
I am not sure I see the relationship.
Barley,According To Jesus a person is judged according to what they know. Not knowing the law is a mitigating circumstance as the sin is made unknowingly. Those that know the law and break it are therefore guilty of a greater trespass.
This is only part of the teaching which teaches us that the Law teaches us what sin is but does not give us the power to overcome sin. Those that live by the law are chained to sin.
Did Jesus Christ abolish the law?No, he fulfilled it so that we are not constricted by it.
barley
Quote (barley @ Mar. 01 2012,12:14) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 01 2012,16:57) Quote (barley @ Mar. 01 2012,10:44) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 01 2012,09:25) Quote (barley @ Mar. 01 2012,00:47) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 01 2012,05:10) Barley, The law was only for Jews and converts to Judaism. There are examples of God fearing Gentiles in Scripture. Different laws applied to them as they were aliens to the children of Israel.
Could you please give what evidence you have to support your claim that the Law served to keep mankind in check?
I remember Paul teaching that the Law is a schoolmaster and I know all Scripture is good for teaching, correcting, and rebuking in righteousness.
I agree that those that live by the spirit of love fulfill the Law of God and not by human effort.
Kerwin,Maybe this is what you are looking for.
Romans 3:19-20
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
all the world may become guilty before God.
The world needed to know that God is not vacationing in Mexico.
barley
Barley,That passage is based on a similar idea expressed in these words of Jesus'.
Luke 12:48
King James Version (KJV)48But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
I am not sure I see the relationship.
Barley,According To Jesus a person is judged according to what they know. Not knowing the law is a mitigating circumstance as the sin is made unknowingly. Those that know the law and break it are therefore guilty of a greater trespass.
This is only part of the teaching which teaches us that the Law teaches us what sin is but does not give us the power to overcome sin. Those that live by the law are chained to sin.
Did Jesus Christ abolish the law?No, he fulfilled it so that we are not constricted by it.
barley
Barley,He fulfilled it because the righteous precepts of the Law is love and those receive and live by the Spirit of God love as God loves.
There are precepts of the law that God implemented as customs for the Jewish people. Those customs they should keep but Gentiles should not because Gentile customs are not Jewish. This is about judging another's servant.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 01 2012,17:26) Quote (barley @ Mar. 01 2012,12:14) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 01 2012,16:57) Quote (barley @ Mar. 01 2012,10:44) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 01 2012,09:25) Quote (barley @ Mar. 01 2012,00:47) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 01 2012,05:10) Barley, The law was only for Jews and converts to Judaism. There are examples of God fearing Gentiles in Scripture. Different laws applied to them as they were aliens to the children of Israel.
Could you please give what evidence you have to support your claim that the Law served to keep mankind in check?
I remember Paul teaching that the Law is a schoolmaster and I know all Scripture is good for teaching, correcting, and rebuking in righteousness.
I agree that those that live by the spirit of love fulfill the Law of God and not by human effort.
Kerwin,Maybe this is what you are looking for.
Romans 3:19-20
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
all the world may become guilty before God.
The world needed to know that God is not vacationing in Mexico.
barley
Barley,That passage is based on a similar idea expressed in these words of Jesus'.
Luke 12:48
King James Version (KJV)48But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
I am not sure I see the relationship.
Barley,According To Jesus a person is judged according to what they know. Not knowing the law is a mitigating circumstance as the sin is made unknowingly. Those that know the law and break it are therefore guilty of a greater trespass.
This is only part of the teaching which teaches us that the Law teaches us what sin is but does not give us the power to overcome sin. Those that live by the law are chained to sin.
Did Jesus Christ abolish the law?No, he fulfilled it so that we are not constricted by it.
barley
Barley,He fulfilled it because the righteous precepts of the Law is love and those receive and live by the Spirit of God love as God loves.
There are precepts of the law that God implemented as customs for the Jewish people. Those customs they should keep but Gentiles should not because Gentile customs are not Jewish. This is about judging another's servant.
Kerwin,
If some one wants to continue under the law that is their choice, even though it runs contrary to God's word. Even though that decision ignores what Jesus Christ did for us.
We are no longer under the law.
For if righteousness came by the law, then Christ is died in vain.
That is not going to be my epitath.
Not once would I ever want to give cause that Christ died in vain for me.
I choose to live unto God. I refuse to be held back by the law.
Galatians 2:19-21
“19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.”It is time for the legalistic scribes and Pharisees of this generation to read scripture and learn to enjoy what God did for them in Christ and let believers continue to enjoy what God did for them in Christ.
Eh?
barley
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