Did god send jesus to die?

[942767]

Quote (betweenchristendomandjws @ Nov. 20 2010,14:30)

Quote (942767 @ Nov. 20 2010,13:19) Quote (betweenchristendomandjws @ Nov. 20 2010,13:08) Jesus needed God to take the cup away from him, so he could fulfill half of Genesis 3:15 and die. Jesus as a perfect man couldn't have died without God's help. Genesis 3:15 Reads And I shall put enmity between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed. He will bruise you in the head and you will bruise him in the heel. P.S. This is my personal belief, the Jehovah's witnesses didn't teach me this. Hi: My understanding is that Jesus was asking God to that if there was any other way for His purpose of the salvation of mankind to be fulfilled other than for him to have to endure the cross to take away this from him.  He didn't want to suffer like that if it was not necessary, but there was no other way, and so, he did what had to be done for our salvation. Love in Christ, Marty I think your interpretation is valid as well, but the fact is Jesus was SINLESS and PREFECT, unless God somehow made him able to die, he COULDN'T have died.

Hi:

What compelled him to be able to endure the cross is God's purpose, and that is the salvation of God's children, and so, in that sense God gave him the strength to endure.

He saw that you and I would be saved by virtue of his overcoming sin, death, and the grave.

Quote

Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[bodhitharta]

Quote (942767 @ Nov. 20 2010,13:06)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 20 2010,11:45) Quote (942767 @ Nov. 20 2010,09:58) Hi BD: What is the mystery of Jesus Baptism.   Quote Matthew 3:13Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. 14But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. 16And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Jesus stated that baptism was required to fulfill all righteousness. In Leviticus 16 there were two goats, one of them was sacrificed and the blood was sprinkled on the mercy seat, and the other was the scapegoat.   Jesus fulfilled both of these positions. Love in Christ, Marty Plus I must ask you if you are right then why does revelation talk about the Mystery of God being finished in the last days if all was revealed during the time of Christ what other mysteries? The fact is you did not know why Jesus was baptized and I am now telling you why but you reject the knowledge on what grounds? Hi BD: This sums up the mystery: Quote 1 Co 15 12Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 14And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 15Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. 16For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 17And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 18Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 19If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. 20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. 29Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead? 30And why stand we in jeopardy every hour? 31I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. 32If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die. 33Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners. 34Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame. 35But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 36Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 37And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 38But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 39All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. 40There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. 42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. But also, because of the resurrection from the dead, every man will give an account to God for the life that he lived, and will be judged according to this works. Quote John 12:47-48 (King James Version) 47And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. And so, what are you telling me about the baptism of Jesus.   Are you saying that because the Spirit led him into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil this identifies him as the scapegoat of Leviticus 16?  If so, how does this show that he bore the sins of the people, as the scapegoat? Love in Christ, Marty

John baptized him for the forgiveness of sins and as we know Jesus did not sin which means he was being baptized for the remission of the sins of Israel

[bodhitharta]

Quote (942767 @ Nov. 20 2010,13:32)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 20 2010,12:10) Quote (942767 @ Nov. 20 2010,12:06) Hi BD: You quote the following verse: Quote John 12:33-35 (New King James Version) 33 This He said, signifying by what death He would die. 34 The people answered Him, “We have heard from the law that the Christ remains forever; and how can You say, ‘The Son of Man must be lifted up’? Who is this Son of Man?” 35 Then Jesus said to them, “A little while longer the light is with you. Walk while you have the light, lest darkness overtake you; he who walks in darkness does not know where he is going. And you highlight the fact that he said “Son of man” so that you can continue with your misunderstanding saying that because he said this “the Son of man could have been someone else”. But no, verse 33 states:   Quote John 12:33This He said, signifying by what death He would die. Love in Christ, Marty John 12:33 is not a statement from Jesus but the idea of the author. Jesus never said “This is the death that I will die” did he? Hi BD: And so, now I have a problem.  Who am I going to believe, the author of the gospel of John or you. Quote Matthew 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. Love in Christ, Marty

I have already shown you that it is perfectly reasonable for Jesus to believe that he would be killed:

Now look and believe:

Isaiah 42:19
Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the LORD's servant?

The fact is if Jesus knew he HAD to die he would not have asked for this cup to be taken away and for it to be taken away would not diminish Jesus a single bit. For the soul that sinneth it shall die but Jesus didn't sin and the guiltless should not be condemned.

God said in the LAW and the LAW MUST BE FULFILLED

Exodus 13:12-13 (King James Version)
12That thou shalt set apart unto the LORD all that openeth the matrix, and every firstling that cometh of a beast which thou hast; the males shall be the LORD's.
13And every firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb; and if thou wilt not redeem it, then thou shalt break his neck: and all the firstborn of man among thy children shalt thou redeem.

Jesus was born of a Virgin the Law says that he cannot be Sacrificed ne must be redeemed.

And it came to pass, when Pharaoh would hardly let us go, that the LORD slew all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both the firstborn of man, and the firstborn of beast: therefore I sacrifice to the LORD all that openeth the matrix, being males; but all the firstborn of my children I redeem.
Exodus 13:14-16

This can not be made any clearer for Jesus to be sacrificed would violate the Law of God.

Remember what the Passover was about.

[theodorej]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 20 2010,04:15)

Quote (theodorej @ Nov. 19 2010,23:40) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 07 2010,10:37) God sent Jesus in the world that whosoever believed in him would not perish so did he send Jesus to perish? Greetings B…. The answer to your question is Yes…The sacrafice fullfilled the law as well as the prophets and is an intricate part of Gods plan for the salvation of us all….Just as in the Old Testament the sacrafice of a perfect non blemished lamb was acceptable as a sacrafice for the remission of sins….so Jesus was the lamb of God who took away the sin that so condemed the human race… But the scriptures say that Sacrifice was not commanded at all. For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: Jeremiah 7:21-23 The Scriptures say that obedience and repentance cause salvation Jeremiah 7:23 (King James Version) 23But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you. And then Jesus himself says what his mission is: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Luke 5:31-33 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Matthew 9:12-14 So sacrifice is not the intention of God, Mercy is. The Quran says that the children of Israel plotted to kill the Messiah but God saved him from the cross and it is scriptural Psalm 91:3-5 (King James Version) 3Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence. 4He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler. 5Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day; The Quran agrees with this saying that they thought they killed and crucified the Messiah but they did not and the truth was hid from them Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. Matthew 13:12-14 The Lamb of God who takes away sins is the Scapegoat it is not killed it is sent away But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness. Leviticus 16:9-11 You see here it is a living atonement and this Goat is blessed by a suitable man Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. Matthew 11:10-12 Aaron shall lay both his hands on the head of the live goat, confess over it all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions, concerning all their sins, putting them on the head of the goat, and shall send it away into the wilderness by the hand of a suitable man. Leviticus 16:20-22 This is the entire mystery of the Baptism of Jesus

Greetings B…..Everything you posted is indeed scriptually correct….As you know Jesus was the promised messiah to the Jews not the Gentiles….It was the apostles who were charged with bringing the Gospel to the Gentiles….Jesus did not come to change the law but to fullfill it…The new and ever lasting covenant was nothing more than a merging of the original covenant with the new… Iam sure this will generate some discourse….At the end of the day it is the blood of lamb, just as in the OT that is for the remission of sin…Jesus is that lamb(symbolic OT sacrafice)his resurection represents the final stage in Gods plan for the salvation of all of us…..When you read Isa:53 the sacrafice is spoken of and the description is one that matches the trials that Jesus indured…

[JustAskin]

Scriptures does not say that Jesus was 'perfect'…until he was raised up from the dead.

Jesus would have died like any other human being if he had just lived..but then he would have been raised up again…remember that Jesus was made like Adam.
Adam was not allowed to eat from the Tree of Life….that would have meant he could…live forever…

But it was not God's plan that Jesus should live..and die a natural death.

His death was preplanned in that God knew that WHOMEVER took the role planned for the task the commission, would die in the manner planned, not because God forced anyone to act deceitful, sinfully, demonicly, …but that God knew that 'Someone' would act that way, there would be 'a Traitor', there would be 'a Pontius Pilot', 'a Nicodemus', 'an unholy High Priest', 'a Peter', 'a Thomas', etc. Who, exactly that person would be would depend on the people in that time period…

[942767]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 20 2010,18:18)

Quote (942767 @ Nov. 20 2010,13:32) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 20 2010,12:10) Quote (942767 @ Nov. 20 2010,12:06) Hi BD: You quote the following verse: Quote John 12:33-35 (New King James Version) 33 This He said, signifying by what death He would die. 34 The people answered Him, “We have heard from the law that the Christ remains forever; and how can You say, ‘The Son of Man must be lifted up’? Who is this Son of Man?” 35 Then Jesus said to them, “A little while longer the light is with you. Walk while you have the light, lest darkness overtake you; he who walks in darkness does not know where he is going. And you highlight the fact that he said “Son of man” so that you can continue with your misunderstanding saying that because he said this “the Son of man could have been someone else”. But no, verse 33 states:   Quote John 12:33This He said, signifying by what death He would die. Love in Christ, Marty John 12:33 is not a statement from Jesus but the idea of the author. Jesus never said “This is the death that I will die” did he? Hi BD: And so, now I have a problem.  Who am I going to believe, the author of the gospel of John or you. Quote Matthew 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. Love in Christ, Marty I have already shown you that it is perfectly reasonable for Jesus to believe that he would be killed: Now look and believe: Isaiah 42:19 Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the LORD's servant? The fact is if Jesus knew he HAD to die he would not have asked for this cup to be taken away and for it to be taken away would not diminish Jesus a single bit. For the soul that sinneth it shall die but Jesus didn't sin and the guiltless should not be condemned. God said in the LAW and the LAW MUST BE FULFILLED Exodus 13:12-13 (King James Version) 12That thou shalt set apart unto the LORD all that openeth the matrix, and every firstling that cometh of a beast which thou hast; the males shall be the LORD's. 13And every firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb; and if thou wilt not redeem it, then thou shalt break his neck: and all the firstborn of man among thy children shalt thou redeem. Jesus was born of a Virgin the Law says that he cannot be Sacrificed ne must be redeemed. And it came to pass, when Pharaoh would hardly let us go, that the LORD slew all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both the firstborn of man, and the firstborn of beast: therefore I sacrifice to the LORD all that openeth the matrix, being males; but all the firstborn of my children I redeem. Exodus 13:14-16 This can not be made any clearer for Jesus to be sacrificed would violate the Law of God. Remember what the Passover was about.

Hi BD:

Do your believe that Jesus was a prophet? What I posted is prophetic and it is true. I have already showed you that if Jesus did not overcome sin by obeying God without sin even unto death on the cross, and if he was not raised from the dead, then we are all in our sins, and there is no resurrection from the dead.

He also said relative to judgement:

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John 12:47-48 (King James Version) 47And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

This is the account of his death:

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Matthew 27 24When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it. 25Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children. 26Then released he Barabbas unto them: and when he had scourged Jesus, he delivered him to be crucified. 27Then the soldiers of the governor took Jesus into the common hall, and gathered unto him the whole band of soldiers. 28And they stripped him, and put on him a scarlet robe. 29And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews! 30And they spit upon him, and took the reed, and smote him on the head. 31And after that they had mocked him, they took the robe off from him, and put his own raiment on him, and led him away to crucify him. 32And as they came out, they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name: him they compelled to bear his cross. 33And when they were come unto a place called Golgotha, that is to say, a place of a skull, 34They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink. 35And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots. 36And sitting down they watched him there; 37And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS. 38Then were there two thieves crucified with him, one on the right hand, and another on the left. 39And they that passed by reviled him, wagging their heads, 40And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross. 41Likewise also the chief priests mocking him, with the scribes and elders, said, 42He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him. 43He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God. 44The thieves also, which were crucified with him, cast the same in his teeth. 45Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour. 46And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? 47Some of them that stood there, when they heard that, said, This man calleth for Elias. 48And straightway one of them ran, and took a spunge, and filled it with vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink. 49The rest said, Let be, let us see whether Elias will come to save him. 50Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. 51And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; 52And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. 54Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God. 55And many women were there beholding afar off, which followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering unto him: 56Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedees children. 57When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple: 58He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered. 59And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, 60And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Hi BD:

You say:

Quote

Remember what the Passover was about

Please tell me what you think the Passover was about. Thanks.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[bodhitharta]

Quote (942767 @ Nov. 23 2010,09:40)

Hi BD: You say: Quote Remember what the Passover was about Please tell me what you think the Passover was about.  Thanks. Love in Christ, Marty

Who did the angel of death Pass-over?

Were all people marked for death or only the firstborn? Was Jesus the firstborn?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (theodorej @ Nov. 23 2010,07:50)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 20 2010,04:15) Quote (theodorej @ Nov. 19 2010,23:40) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 07 2010,10:37) God sent Jesus in the world that whosoever believed in him would not perish so did he send Jesus to perish? Greetings B…. The answer to your question is Yes…The sacrafice fullfilled the law as well as the prophets and is an intricate part of Gods plan for the salvation of us all….Just as in the Old Testament the sacrafice of a perfect non blemished lamb was acceptable as a sacrafice for the remission of sins….so Jesus was the lamb of God who took away the sin that so condemed the human race… But the scriptures say that Sacrifice was not commanded at all. For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: Jeremiah 7:21-23 The Scriptures say that obedience and repentance cause salvation Jeremiah 7:23 (King James Version) 23But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you. And then Jesus himself says what his mission is: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Luke 5:31-33 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Matthew 9:12-14 So sacrifice is not the intention of God, Mercy is. The Quran says that the children of Israel plotted to kill the Messiah but God saved him from the cross and it is scriptural Psalm 91:3-5 (King James Version) 3Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence. 4He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler. 5Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day; The Quran agrees with this saying that they thought they killed and crucified the Messiah but they did not and the truth was hid from them Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. Matthew 13:12-14 The Lamb of God who takes away sins is the Scapegoat it is not killed it is sent away But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness. Leviticus 16:9-11 You see here it is a living atonement and this Goat is blessed by a suitable man Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. Matthew 11:10-12 Aaron shall lay both his hands on the head of the live goat, confess over it all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions, concerning all their sins, putting them on the head of the goat, and shall send it away into the wilderness by the hand of a suitable man. Leviticus 16:20-22 This is the entire mystery of the Baptism of Jesus Greetings B…..Everything you posted is indeed scriptually correct….As you know Jesus was the promised messiah to the Jews not the Gentiles….It was the apostles who were charged with bringing the Gospel to the Gentiles….Jesus did not come to change the law but to fullfill it…The new and ever lasting covenant was nothing more than a merging of the original covenant with the new… Iam sure this will generate some discourse….At the end of the day it is the blood of lamb, just as in the OT that is for the remission of sin…Jesus is that lamb(symbolic OT sacrafice)his resurection represents the final stage in Gods plan for the salvation of all of us…..When you read Isa:53 the sacrafice is spoken of and the description is one that matches the trials that Jesus indured…

Theodore

The Scapegoat who carries all the iniquities is not killed or sacrificed/Crucified it is set loose just like Pontious Pilate said he wanted to do with Jesus.

Luke 23:13-16 (King James Version)
13And Pilate, when he had called together the chief priests and the rulers and the people,
14Said unto them, Ye have brought this man unto me, as one that perverteth the people: and, behold, I, having examined him before you, have found no fault in this man touching those things whereof ye accuse him:
15No, nor yet Herod: for I sent you to him; and, lo, nothing worthy of death is done unto him.
16I will therefore chastise him, and release him.

Luke 23:20-22 (King James Version)
20Pilate therefore, willing to release Jesus, spake again to them.
21But they cried, saying, Crucify him, crucify him.
22And he said unto them the third time, Why, what evil hath he done? I have found no cause of death in him: I will therefore chastise him, and let him go.

Luke 23:24-26 (King James Version)
24And Pilate gave sentence that it should be as they required.
25And he released unto them him that for sedition and murder was cast into prison, whom they had desired; but he delivered Jesus to their will.
26And as they led him away, they laid hold upon one Simon, a Cyrenian, coming out of the country, and on him they laid the cross, that he might bear it after Jesus.

[942767]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 23 2010,10:11)

Quote (942767 @ Nov. 23 2010,09:40) Hi BD: You say: Quote Remember what the Passover was about Please tell me what you think the Passover was about.  Thanks. Love in Christ, Marty Who did the angel of death Pass-over? Were all people marked for death or only the firstborn? Was Jesus the firstborn?

Hi BD:

The angel of death passed over the household of the Israelites when the angel of death saw the blood on the doorposts of their house.

Jesus is the unblemished lamb of God that redeemed all of God's children by his blood. When the angel of death sees the blood on the doorposts of your house, your heart, he will pass over you also on the day of judgment.

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Exodus 12:4And if the household be too little for the lamb, let him and his neighbour next unto his house take it according to the number of the souls; every man according to his eating shall make your count for the lamb. 5Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats: 6And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening. 7And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it. 21Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel, and said unto them, Draw out and take you a lamb according to your families, and kill the passover. 22And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood that is in the bason, and strike the lintel and the two side posts with the blood that is in the bason; and none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning. 23For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.

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John 1:29 (King James Version) 29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world

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Revelation 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

Love in Christ,
Marty

[bodhitharta]

Quote (942767 @ Nov. 23 2010,12:03)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 23 2010,10:11) Quote (942767 @ Nov. 23 2010,09:40) Hi BD: You say: Quote Remember what the Passover was about Please tell me what you think the Passover was about.  Thanks. Love in Christ, Marty Who did the angel of death Pass-over? Were all people marked for death or only the firstborn? Was Jesus the firstborn? Hi BD: The angel of death passed over the household of the Israelites when the angel of death saw the blood on the doorposts of their house. Jesus is the unblemished lamb of God that redeemed all of God's children by his blood.  When the angel of death sees the blood on the doorposts of your house, your heart, he will pass over you also on the day of judgment. Quote Exodus  12:4And if the household be too little for the lamb, let him and his neighbour next unto his house take it according to the number of the souls; every man according to his eating shall make your count for the lamb. 5Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats: 6And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening. 7And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it. 21Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel, and said unto them, Draw out and take you a lamb according to your families, and kill the passover. 22And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood that is in the bason, and strike the lintel and the two side posts with the blood that is in the bason; and none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning. 23For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you. Quote John 1:29 (King James Version) 29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world Quote Revelation 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; Love in Christ, Marty

But what you fail to realize Marty is pertaining to Sacrifice the Firstborn of Man must be redeemed.

Exodus 13:12-13 (King James Version)
12That thou shalt set apart unto the LORD all that openeth the matrix, and every firstling that cometh of a beast which thou hast; the males shall be the LORD's.
13And every firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb; and if thou wilt not redeem it, then thou shalt break his neck: and all the firstborn of man among thy children shalt thou redeem.

Jesus was the Son of Man born of a Virgin he does not qualify for sacrificial services according to the law so Yes Jesus taketh the sin of the world away but not through sacrifice but through Baptism

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 23 2010,15:25)

Jesus taketh the sin of the world away but not through sacrifice but through Baptism

Hi Everyone,

                     Here is the foolishness that muslims believe!

For the reader's sake:
I(Ed J) no longer Post directly to BD, nor answer his postulating questions,
because BD continues to make outrageous personal attacks
which go ignored by the owner of this site.

[betweenchristendomandjws]

Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 23 2010,08:29)

Scriptures does not say that Jesus was 'perfect'…until he was raised up from the dead. Jesus would have died like any other human being if he had just lived..but then he would have been raised up again…remember that Jesus was made like Adam. Adam was not allowed to eat from the Tree of Life….that would have meant he could…live forever… But it was not God's plan that Jesus should live..and die a natural death. His death was preplanned in that God knew that WHOMEVER took the role planned for the task the commission, would die in the manner planned, not because God forced anyone to act deceitful, sinfully, demonicly, …but that God knew that 'Someone' would act that way, there would be 'a Traitor', there would be 'a Pontius Pilot', 'a Nicodemus', 'an unholy High Priest', 'a Peter', 'a Thomas', etc. Who, exactly that person would be would depend on the people in that time period…

The bible also doesn't say Jesus erred or sin. Sinless=perfection

[Stu]

Quote (betweenchristendomandjws @ Dec. 06 2010,11:37)

Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 23 2010,08:29) Scriptures does not say that Jesus was 'perfect'…until he was raised up from the dead. Jesus would have died like any other human being if he had just lived..but then he would have been raised up again…remember that Jesus was made like Adam. Adam was not allowed to eat from the Tree of Life….that would have meant he could…live forever… But it was not God's plan that Jesus should live..and die a natural death. His death was preplanned in that God knew that WHOMEVER took the role planned for the task the commission, would die in the manner planned, not because God forced anyone to act deceitful, sinfully, demonicly, …but that God knew that 'Someone' would act that way, there would be 'a Traitor', there would be 'a Pontius Pilot', 'a Nicodemus', 'an unholy High Priest', 'a Peter', 'a Thomas', etc. Who, exactly that person would be would depend on the people in that time period… The bible also doesn't say Jesus erred or sin. Sinless=perfection

Why didn't he cast the first stone then?

Stuart

[theodorej]

Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 23 2010,08:29)

Scriptures does not say that Jesus was 'perfect'…until he was raised up from the dead. Jesus would have died like any other human being if he had just lived..but then he would have been raised up again…remember that Jesus was made like Adam. Adam was not allowed to eat from the Tree of Life….that would have meant he could…live forever… But it was not God's plan that Jesus should live..and die a natural death. His death was preplanned in that God knew that WHOMEVER took the role planned for the task the commission, would die in the manner planned, not because God forced anyone to act deceitful, sinfully, demonicly, …but that God knew that 'Someone' would act that way, there would be 'a Traitor', there would be 'a Pontius Pilot', 'a Nicodemus', 'an unholy High Priest', 'a Peter', 'a Thomas', etc. Who, exactly that person would be would depend on the people in that time period…

Greetings JA…. The scriptures say he was without sin…that is pretty close to perfection given the state that we are in…It is important to note that Jesus' ministry consisted of the preaching of the good news of the kingdom or government of God which will someday rule the earth…I dare not pretend to think that I would know how God thinks,simply because I know that his ways are higher than mine… and his plan for our salvation had a demanding requiste and that was a sacrafice for the remission of sins…Jesus' victory over death speaks to the fact that today he is very much alive and will come again in judgement…

[Author]

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