Did God die on the cross

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,
I should keep searching for that phrase in the BIBLE?

handy for theologians but not written

[david]

Quote

Here is a compilation of the several passages and/or scriptural reasonings that suggest that Jesus Christ is deity.

Is it merely 'suggested'?

[Lightenup]

Nick,
You could call Him the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, if you need to be 'to the letter.' When spiritually appraised, that sums up quite nicely as God, the Son.

based on this verse:
John 1:18
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

[Lightenup]

David,
Only to those who do not have it revealed by the Spirit yet. Thomas had it revealed as well as many others.

[david]

Here is a compilation of the several passages and/or scriptural reasonings that suggest that Jesus Christ is deity.

LU, it just seems like YOU said those words.

[Lightenup]

David,

Yes, I said it to the many members here that have not had the revelation, not that those who wrote it did not have the revelation.

[david]

So, to us, the scriptures “suggest” Christ's deity. But to those that wrote it, they of course understand Christ's deity.

Question: The question of who Jesus is, is a monstrously largely important question. Wouldn't it have made sense for those who apparently knew Christ's deity to make it more than a 'suggestion' to those who read it later?

[Lightenup]

David,
We cannot read our way into salvation. It is by faith that we are saved through the revealed word of God. Many can read that Jesus is the only begotten God, for example, but not everyone that reads it accepts what they read. It is the Spirit that brings the word of God alive to those seeking Him with their whole heart.

[942767]

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 01 2012,17:30)

Marty, you said: Quote And so, this is the revelation to us from the Father.  If he wanted to reveal to us that Jesus was the begotten God, he would have done so.  He did not, and therefore, He is not. John 1:18 18No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him. Is that verse not part of the inspired scripture, Marty? 2 Tim 3:14You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work. Obviously you have not been revealed this truth but obviously many others have. So just because you haven't been revealed this does not mean that God hasn't revealed it to others. All scripture is inspired by God even John 1:18. Kathi

Hi Kathi:

Some manuscripts read “only begotten God” and some “only begotten Son”, and so, I personally will have to go with the scripture “only begotten Son” because it is consistent with the revelation given to us by God, our Heavenly Father, through Apostle Peter in Matthew 16, and the scripture also states that there is “One God” in Ephesians 4 and 1 Timothy 2:5, and this scripture also states that Jesus is a man.

The following scripture is from the New American Standard. It reads as follows:

Quote

Mat 16:13 Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, He was asking His disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?” Mat 16:14 And they said, “Some say John the Baptist; and others, [fn]Elijah; but still others, [fn]Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.” Mat 16:15 He [!] said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Mat 16:16 Simon Peter answered, “You are [fn]the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Mat 16:17 And Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon [fn]Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

This is the version of the bible which translates John 1:18 “only begotten God”. If this were the correct, why then does God reveal in Matthew 16 that Jesus is “the Christ, the Son of the Living God, and not the “only begotten God”. The scriptures should be consistent, should they not?

I agree that all scripture is given by the inspiration of God, but apparently, some translations of the scriptures are not accurate.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,
You seem to claim you have superior knowledge to those who find your views odd.
Coll2 seemed to warn us against folk who do that.

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,
God is one.
Gal3

[Lightenup]

Quote (942767 @ Feb. 11 2012,20:10)

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 01 2012,17:30) Marty, you said: Quote And so, this is the revelation to us from the Father.  If he wanted to reveal to us that Jesus was the begotten God, he would have done so.  He did not, and therefore, He is not. John 1:18 18No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him. Is that verse not part of the inspired scripture, Marty? 2 Tim 3:14You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work. Obviously you have not been revealed this truth but obviously many others have. So just because you haven't been revealed this does not mean that God hasn't revealed it to others. All scripture is inspired by God even John 1:18. Kathi Hi Kathi: Some manuscripts read “only begotten God” and some “only begotten Son”, and so, I personally will have to go with the scripture “only begotten Son” because it is consistent with the revelation given to us by God, our Heavenly Father, through Apostle Peter in Matthew 16, and the scripture also states that there is “One God” in Ephesians 4 and 1 Timothy 2:5, and this scripture also states that Jesus is a man. The following scripture is from the New American Standard.  It reads as follows: Quote Mat 16:13 Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, He was asking His disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?”   Mat 16:14 And they said, “Some say John the Baptist; and others, [fn]Elijah; but still others, [fn]Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.”   Mat 16:15 He [!] said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”   Mat 16:16 Simon Peter answered, “You are [fn]the Christ, the Son of the living God.”   Mat 16:17 And Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon [fn]Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.   This is the version of the bible which translates John 1:18 “only begotten God”.  If this were the correct, why then does God reveal in Matthew 16 that Jesus is “the Christ, the Son of the Living God, and not the “only begotten God”.  The scriptures should be consistent, should they not? I agree that all scripture is given by the inspiration of God, but apparently, some translations of the scriptures are not accurate. Love in Christ, Marty

Marty,
The 'only begotten God' is another way of saying the 'only begotten Son of God.'

You believe that the 'Son of Man' is man…right?

Yet you don't seem to believe that the 'Son of God' is God.

Why is that?

The earlier manuscripts have the word 'theos'(God) after monogenes (only begotten) in John 1:18 not the word huio (son). The older manuscripts are considered more accurate.

Kathi

[Lightenup]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 11 2012,21:15)

Hi LU, You seem to claim you have superior knowledge to those who find your views odd. Coll2 seemed to warn us against folk who do that.

Nick,
Who ever has the truth will have that which is superior to non-truth. It is not the person that is superior but the truth they hold. We should not water down truth to protect ourselves from looking odd but we are to be bold and confident warriors of that truth. If what I understand as truth, you don't understand as truth, then one or both of us are wrong. You are and have always been welcomed to challenge my understanding of the truth of scripture.

We all stand on the same level at the foot of the cross and we all can attain to the same truth but not all of us will. If I believed your understanding was truth, I would align with it otherwise that would be foolish. I don't happen to agree with you on some things like what we are currently discussing but on other things, I may.

Kathi

[Lightenup]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 11 2012,22:58)

Hi LU, God is one. Gal3

Nick,
That passage is about God the Father being one of the two parties that the begotten God who became flesh was the mediator for. The other party is one also…mankind.

Jesus makes the perfect mediator because He has both natures, God's and man's.

Kathi

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 10 2012,12:52)

1 fullness of God = 1 God, the Father + 1 God, the Son + 1 Holy Spirit

You are almost the personification of the Trinity Doctrine in action. Instead of 60 years for the third person to be added it took you 60 weeks or so.

For us there is one God the Father, and for you there is one God, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Perhaps this is a delusion that is sent to those who profess to be believers but whose hearts are not set on truth. I mean, why is it that so many believe this when it is not written.

God is a him, and you do not address 2 or 3 persons as HIM. If you do, then you need to be corrected. 3 persons is THEY.

[Lightenup]

t8,
Where is the Holy Spirit listed as a person in what I wrote? Also, where are the pronouns in what I wrote? There are none in the part you quoted.

Do you not believe in the Holy Spirit?

[942767]

Hi Kathi:

You say:

Quote

Marty, The 'only begotten God' is another way of saying the 'only begotten Son of God.'

Kathi:  That does not make any sense.  Why do we need an alternate way of saying “only begotten Son of God”?

And to what you say below:

Quote

You believe that the 'Son of Man' is man…right? Yet you don't seem to believe that the 'Son of God' is God. Why is that?

Yes, I believe the scripture that Jesus was the “the son of man”, and the scripture that states that he is “the Christ, the Son of the Living God”.  He was conceived of the Holy Ghost in the womb of the virgin Mary, and therefore, he is unique in this way.  He is the Son of God and son of man.

But no, I do not believe that he is God because the scripture states that there is “only one God”.

Kathi, the plan of God from the beginning was to make man in his own image.  The first man, Adam was made a living soul.  He was like God in that he had a mind, a will, and emotions.  The last man, Adam was made a qickening spirit.  He is like God in that he is a spirit of love.  Jesus is the “last Adam”, and “he is the express image of God's person”.  In this way he is God, in that his life reflects the character of God, and so, he said: “he who has seen me has seen the Father”.

But to say that there is a God and a begotten God is saying that there are “two Gods”, and that does not agree with the scriptures.  All things proceed from the “one true God” including Jesus.

Ultimately, it is the life that someone lives that defines the person, and so Romans 1 states:

 

Quote

Rom 1:1 ¶ Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called [to be] an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,   Rom 1:2   (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)   Rom 1:3   Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;   Rom 1:4   And declared [to be] the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Wakeup]

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 12 2012,18:59)

t8, Where is the Holy Spirit listed as a person in what I wrote? Also, where are the pronouns in what I wrote? There are none in the part you quoted. Do you not believe in the Holy Spirit?

Hi lightenup.

IS GOD OF THE ROOT AND OF THE OFFSPRING OF DAVID?

wakeup.

[Lightenup]

Hi Marty,

you said:

Quote

You say: Quote Marty, The 'only begotten God' is another way of saying the 'only begotten Son of God.' Kathi:  That does not make any sense.  Why do we need an alternate way of saying “only begotten Son of God”?

Now look at that Marty…you ask why we would need an alternate way of saying “only begotten Son of God.”

Yet you tell me that John 1:18 tells us that He is the Only begotten Son…right?
You do believe that Jesus is also called the Son of God…right?
You also believe that Jesus is called the Christ, the Son of the living God…right?

There are three alternate ways of saying who Jesus is as the Son of God right there. Yet you cannot understand that there could be an alternate way of saying the 'Son of God' as the 'only begotten God.'

Having alternate ways of saying the same thing is not unscriptural as you can see yet you use the argument that it is unnecessary when it doesn't line up with your theology. Do you see your inconsistency here Marty?

You claim that Jesus is the Son of Man because He was conceived in a human woman…right?
The Bible sometimes calls Him a man…right?
You claim that Jesus is the Son of God because He was conceived by the Holy Spirit…right?
The Bible also calls Him God…right?

So, are you saying that He is called 'man' because of His body type and He is called 'God' because of His character of love?

Please answer these questions, Marty.

Thanks,
Kathi

[Lightenup]

Hi Wakeup,
I believe that as the only begotten God, He is the root of the line of David and as the Messiah, He is the offspring from the line of David.
Kathi

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