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Hi,
Any study of the gospels cannot ignore the constant reference to demons and evil spirits. Mark especially focusses on this work.
We are told of those with unclean spirits, legions of spirits and some who suffer from what sounds like epilepsy and another with osteoporosis being healed by the driving out of evil spirits.
Jesus seemed to say that they were organised and under the authority of Satan when he was accused of driving out of demons by the power of Beelzebub.
Today many in the church would rather this subject was not taken seriously and instead say it was only a culturally ignorant society's reference to diseases we now understand much better.
What say ye?I say these demons seemed to be better at recognizing God's anointed than those that should have. They knew him to be the Son of God and yet the religious leaders didn't.
Also another thought, these demons – when do they die? when the person possessed dies?
I believe the demons on this earth at present are the same crowd that were on the earth since the world began.Genesis 1 tells us darkness was upon the face of the deep, I say those spirits have always been here.
A spiritist once challenged me on an experience he had where a medium told him of a prior life he had supposedly had as a soldier in the imperial army in Russia in the time of the revolution. His challenge to me was to explain how it was that here description of his life matched the memory he had of the same thing?
I explained that undoubtably any spirit or demon that may have possessed him had been around for a while, and quite possibly once possessed a man in the imperial army long ago.
My point being this, Jesus only cast them out, not killed them. So they continued wandering the earth until they find someone else they can torment. (Matt 12:45)Hi Malcolm,
Yes I agree. Deceitful lying demons do not die [yet]but move from person to person [and animals as the episode of the pigs showed]and maybe are inherited too-I don't know. Certainly they explain the powers of the sceance as demons who have lived in a person can speak in detail about their lives, and likewise the story you told. Reincarnation theorists are also conned by them.Quote Certainly they explain the powers of the sceance as demons who have lived in a person can speak in detail about their lives Hey Nick. I remember (I believe in the “soul” thread) discussing the idea that the dead relatives that people believe they are communicating with are really demons. You seemed to think this was wrong.
OK, I think it was the question of whether King Saul communicated with the prophet Samuel after Samuel’s death, or whether he was really communicating with a demon through the witch of endor–that's where we disagreed.
According to the Doctrine taught at the time of Christ this explains what you are asking.
and I heard His voice: 'Fear not, Enoch, thou righteous man and scribe of righteousness: approach hither and hear my voice. And go, say to the Watchers of heaven, who have sent thee to intercede for them: “You should intercede” for men, and not men for you:
Wherefore have ye left the high, holy, and eternal heaven, and lain with women, and defiled yourselves with the daughters of men and taken to yourselves wives, and done like the children of earth, and begotten giants (as your) sons?
And though ye were holy, spiritual, living the eternal life, you have defiled yourselves with the blood of women, and have begotten (children) with the blood of flesh, and, as the children of men, have lusted after flesh and blood as those also do who die and perish.
Therefore have I given them wives also that they might impregnate them, and beget children by them, that thus nothing might be wanting to them on earth. But you were formerly spiritual, living the eternal life, and immortal for all generations of the world.
And therefore I have not appointed wives for you; for as for the spiritual ones of the heaven, in heaven is their dwelling. And now, the giants, who are produced from the spirits and flesh, shall be called evil spirits upon the earth, and on the earth shall be their dwelling. Evil spirits have proceeded from their bodies; because they are born from men and from the holy Watchers is their beginning and primal origin; they shall be evil spirits on earth, and evil spirits shall they be called. [As for the spirits of heaven, in heaven shall be their dwelling, but as for the spirits of the earth which were born upon the earth, on the earth shall be their dwelling.]
And the spirits of the giants afflict, oppress, destroy, attack, do battle, and work destruction on the earth, and cause trouble: they take no food, but nevertheless hunger and thirst, and cause offences. And these spirits shall rise up against the children of men and against the women, because they have proceeded from them.yup Malcolm,
It is accessible through this site.
It is ,of course, quoted in Jude so many think should be in the canon. It is in the Ethiopian church.Thanks Nick
I will have a look at it.
As to its inclusion in the scriptures, that's a contentious issue I am sure.
Jude refers to it – as Enoch has said the Lord shall come with thousands of his saints…
Paul also referred to the Greek poets in acts when addressing the people on Mars hill saying
we are all His (God's) offspring…Hi Malcolm,
Seven manuscripts were also found with the dead sea scrolls and it was apparently highly regarded by the early church.Hi,
I see that when the Pharisees said that Beelzebub is the “ruler of the demons” in Mt 12 Jesus did not disagree.
” they said
'This man casts out demons only by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons'
And knowing their thoughts Jesus said to them
'Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste and any city or house divided against itself will not stand.
If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then will his kingdom stand?
If I, by Beelzebub cast out demons by whom do your sons cast them out?
For this reason they will be your judges.
But if I cast them out by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
Or how can anyone enter the strong man's house unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house.'”
Jesus is truth so;There is a kingdom of darkness and a kingdom of God
There is a battle between the kingdom of God and that of evil
Satan exists and has authority in the kingdom of evil
Demons exist and can be cast out
Beelezebub exists and has authority over demons
The Spirit of God casts out demons against the kingdom of darkness
The Kingdom of God is triumphant
The strong man Satan has been bound by Jesus.It does not clarify if Satan is Beelzebub but their separation suggests to me they are different.
What is plain is that if one does not believe in Satan there is no reason to believe in the Spirit of God either.
We also read about Abaddon or Apolyon, in Revelation.
It appears from the record of scripture that this world is the present battleground, in a war that started in heaven, long ago.
Satan (ex Lucifer) and his army were cast out of the presence of God, yet Satan appears to have the ability to come before the throne on occasion (Job), as do his angels from time to time.
As we see in the account of Micaiah's vision.
From all accounts his army is organized, as any army needs to be, and from the record of Ezekiel – Satan (King of Tyrus) is the undipsuted leader, being outstanding amongst angels if this account is anything to go by.An interesting bit of info about the word Tyrus…
It means 'a rock'
Rock is symbolic of revelation in the bible as I understand it.
Mt 17 Jesus states that the Church is built upon the revelation of who the Son of Man is.
In the OT Moses says (in Deuteronomy 32 I think it is) 'Their rock is not as our rock even our enemies themselves being judges'…So Satan is the King of and by a false revelation, with which he seeks to pervert the Kingdom of God and make it his own.
Quote (malcolm ferris @ May 18 2006,20:51) We also read about Abaddon or Apolyon, in Revelation.
It appears from the record of scripture that this world is the present battleground, in a war that started in heaven, long ago.
Satan (ex Lucifer) and his army were cast out of the presence of God, yet Satan appears to have the ability to come before the throne on occasion (Job), as do his angels from time to time.
As we see in the account of Micaiah's vision.
From all accounts his army is organized, as any army needs to be, and from the record of Ezekiel – Satan (King of Tyrus) is the undipsuted leader, being outstanding amongst angels if this account is anything to go by.
Hi Malcolm,
Excellent.
Excuse my ignorance but who is Micaiah and what vision?OK I remember,
Thanks to the Spirit.
1Kings 22.19
“And Micaiah said
'Therefore hear the word of the Lord. I saw the Lord sitting on His throne, and all the host of heaven standing by Him on His right and on His left”Yep that's the one
I KINGS 22:20-23
And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.
And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.
And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.
Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.
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