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Hi,
Scripture is full of references to gods as well as our God. But there are few references to deities which are gods who are worshipped.Ps 97
” 7Confounded be all they that serve graven images, that boast themselves of idols: worship him, all ye gods.”
1Cor 8
“4As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.5For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.”
Yet only our God is to be worshipped as a Deity by us.
That God was in Christ
Col 2.9
” 9For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, “Angels are worshipped by some but should not be
Col 2.18
“18Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind,”Hi,
Trinitarians defend ardently the so called Deity of Jesus.Yet they should listen to Paul speaking in the Spirit of Christ
1Cor 8
” 6But
to us
there is but one God,
the Father,
of whom are all things,
and we in him;
and one Lord Jesus Christ,
by whom are all things, and we by him.7Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge”
???Are there greater teachers we should listen to than him?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 03 2006,23:45) Hi,
Trinitarians defend ardently the so called Deity of Jesus.Yet they should listen to Paul speaking in the Spirit of Christ
1Cor 8
” 6But
to us
there is but one God,
the Father,
of whom are all things,
and we in him;
and one Lord Jesus Christ,
by whom are all things, and we by him.7Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge”
???Are there greater teachers we should listen to than him?
Hi Nick,One Lord……well you should not have any problems with the following….
Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also WHICH PIERCED HIM: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Rev 1:8 I AM ALPHA AND OMEGA, THE BEGINNING AND THE ENDING, SAITH THE LORD, which is, and which was, and which is to come, THE ALMIGHTY.saith the ***Lord***
Rev 1:11 SAYING, I AM ALPHA AND OMEGA, THE FIRST AND THE LAST: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
Rev 1:12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;Who is the Lord, who is the Alpha and Omega, the first and the last [above]
Who did he see?Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, FEAR NOT; I AM THE FIRST AND THE LAST:
Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and WAS DEAD; AND, BEHOLD, I AM ALIVE FOR EVERMORE, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.Do you not yet release that Jesus is the Son of Man AND the Son/Word of God.
Do you only see Jesus in the flesh and not see him in the spirit as the word of God who was begotten from the Fathers mouth and will not return to the Father empty.
It was the word of God that created the heavens, He is the Lord from Heaven.Blessings
Hi SS,
Revelation comes from God,
to Jesus,
to the angel
to John.Rev 1
” 1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John”All speak in the book and it is easy to be confused as to who is speaking at times.
And the one who is for us LORD
is not the One who is our GOD.1Cor 8
” 6But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him;
and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him”
That is his Father and Jesus is the Son of Gofd. Do you agree?Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 04 2006,14:44) Who was Thomas' God?
I hope Thomas' God was the same as Jesus' God.Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.' (John 20:17)
John 20:28
Then He said to Thomas, “Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hands and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing.” Thomas answered and said to Him, 'My Lord and my God'”A transliteration of the Greek reads:
ho kurios mou kai ho theos mou = “Answered Thomas and he said to him, the Lord of me and the God of me”
This was an address made to Yahshua, it was “said to Him”. Thomas was completely persuaded of His deity and did not hesitate to address the Risen Yahshua as Lord and God. And it’s little wonder that Thomas spoke to Him this way, considering the incredible claim Yahshua had made leading up to the crucifixion. He had earlier pronounced that he would raise Himself from the dead:
John 2:18-20
18 The Jews then said to Him, “What sign do You show us as your authority for doing these things?”
19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
20 The Jews then said, “It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?”
21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body.
22 So when He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He said this; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had spoken.This was not the only time Yahshua made this claim:
John 10:17-18
17 “For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again.
18 ” No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father.”And it was a claim that was remember and frequently repeated by others:
Matthew 26:61
and said, “This man stated, 'I am able to destroy the temple of God and to rebuild it in three days.'”Matthew 27:40
and saying, “You who are going to destroy the temple and rebuild it in three days, save Yourself! If You are the Son of God, come down from the cross.”Mark 14:58
“We heard Him say, 'I will destroy this temple made with hands, and in three days I will build another made without hands.'”Mark 15:29
Those passing by were hurling abuse at Him, wagging their heads, and saying, “Ha! You who are going to destroy the temple and rebuild it in three days,The main objections considered:
1. It was a dual-subject address
Some argue that this was an address by Thomas but the intended recipient for the “my God” bit was not the person of Yahshua but instead God, Who indwelt Him. Aside from the fact that this theory actually would add tremendous weight to the argument that the Holy Spirit is in fact God, I see three main problems with this theory:-1. The grammar in the verse (nominative was used for the vocative) shows that the Yahshua was the solitary recipient. “My Lord and my God” was “said to Him”…who is the Him? Yahshua, He was the subject.
2. Is there, in scripture, other examples of this kind of “dual address”, where part of a spoken statement is made to a subject in a personal interaction but the other half is directed at God that indwells that subject, to appeal to in support of the theory? No, I know of none…..
3. Nothing in the context of the passage in which the address lies indicates that it was directed at anyone other than Yahshua. The verse does not read:
John 20:28
Then He said to Thomas, “Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hands and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing.” Thomas answered and said to Him, 'My Lord and [to the One that indwelt Him he said] “my God'”(bracketed insertion mine)Therefore this objection is implausible IMO.
2. It was an outburst of profanity induced by surprise
Unitarians, for instance, argue that Thomas, in his astonishment of seeing the risen Lord, exclaimed “my Lord and my God”, as a profane statement of astonishment…..Hmmm…..did Thomas swear at Jesus? This interpretation demonstrates the desperate measures some are driven to to explain away the blatant acknowledgement of deity by Thomas to Yahshua. There are also several problems with their reasoning, here are three:
1. There are no other scriptural examples of disciples or anyone else using this kind of profane language to express surprise, or for any other reason but a reverential address.
2. The grammar in the verse shows that Thomas did not utter a statement in Yahshua's presence, but addressed Him directly: “Thomas said to Him…..” (nominative being used for the vocative).
3. Yahshua did not in any way chasten Thomas for uttering wholly-sinful blasphemy, far from it. Here is Yahshua's immediate response:
“Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed” (John 20:29).
Clearly Yahshua was not taken back and bluntly disapproving, as you would expect Him to be, had Thomas actually sworn in His presence.
This also is not a sound objection…..
Thomas saw the risen Lord and addessed Him the manner anyone would that anyone would who had heard someone claim they would raise themselves from the dead – AND THEN DID IT! His address was overtly directly at Yahshua and was utterly reverential in its nature. Thomas called Yahshua “His God” because He is God. There are many other scripture evidences that manifestly attest to this.
Upon seeing the Lord risen from the dead, Thomas called Jesus His God, no other explanation is plausible. There is no God but YHWH. Yahshua is YHWH.
Blessings
Hi Is 1.18
He is the monogenes Son who was sent into the World.
1Jn 4
' 9In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.10Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.”
Hi Is 1.18,
Why would you cobble together
a statement from an apostle
with the only scripture out of 18 about the resurrection of Jesus that might suggest he raised himself
with the reports of that statement made by his enemies at his trialto try to establish that Jesus is not what he and his Father stated about himself is not true-that he is the Son of God?
If your words do not agree with those of God and Jesus guess who is confused?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 05 2006,09:46) Hi Is 1.18,
It is because God is his Father.Quote He is the monogenes Son who was sent into the World.
1Jn 4
' 9In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.10Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.”
So “Son of God” means 'pre-incarnate progeny of God'? If this were true, and it's important that we have this understanding of the title, we should have:
- Scripture attesting to a pre-incarnation begettal event – but I have found none.
- A NT author's concise explanation that the title Son of God means that the Yahshua was procreated before His incarnation – but there is no such explanation, or even a vague reference to it…
- Absence of scripture linking the sonship of Christ to His earthly existence – but I find Luke 1:35, Acts 13:3, Romans 1:4, Hebrews 1:5.
- Absence of scripture attesting to the eternality of the Logos – but I find Micah 1:5, John 1:1a, Hebrews 7:3…
I personally think the eternal generation theory has some major flaws….but that's just my opinion.
What do others think?
Hi Is 1.18,
If you say Jesus is YHWH, you are saying he is not the Son of YHWH.
So the rest is semantics.Hi,
Eph 1“3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: “
” 17That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:”
Amen.
Jn 17
” 1These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.”
Should we believe Jesus rather than theologians?
Amen.
God is One Godhead
Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD (Yhovah) our God (Elohiym-Plural) is one (heiz) LORD (Yhovah):
Elohiym
gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God;
One (heiz) Lord means that Elohym (plural) is the only one or certainMark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord (Kurios) our God (Theos) is one Lord (Kurios):
Jesus here in Mark 12:29 is obviously referring to Deut 6:4
Note that Theos is used in the place of Elohym which is plural. Therefore Theos can be used in the context of the Godhead by Jesus’ own use of the phrase.Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods (Elohiym) before me.
Again Elohiym is used to indicate plurality.Consider:
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God (Elohiym-Plural) created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:26 And God (Elohiym-Plural) said, Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness:
In these two verses Elohiym is the Godhead.
Nice try NH.
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