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Quote (Stu @ Nov. 01 2010,17:26) So will you withdraw the accusation that I criticised you for using Wikipedia in the manner I used it? Thanks.
Stuart
Are you denying this outright?
Because if you were, then I can understand you wanting me to withdraw. If not, then why withdraw something that could be true? Surely it is OK to say that I remember something that happened once. Retracting that is only necessary if it was false.So are you denying this outright?
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 21 2010,07:09) Quote (Stu @ Nov. 01 2010,17:26) So will you withdraw the accusation that I criticised you for using Wikipedia in the manner I used it? Thanks.
Stuart
Are you denying this outright?
Because if you were, then I can understand you wanting me to withdraw. If not, then why withdraw something that could be true? Surely it is OK to say that I remember something that happened once. Retracting that is only necessary if it was false.So are you denying this outright?
The burden of proof is on you. If you cannot provide any evidence that I criticised you for using Wikipedia in the manner I used it then you are the one in the wrong, not me.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Nov. 21 2010,06:14) Quote Sticky white cells are what animals had BEFORE clotting systems, what they produce is a plug of cells, not a blood clot. Stop playing! Sticky white cells would be blood clotting cells
Quote Where have I ever claimed that nature has intent? I have explained many times to others here that it does not. Then stop saying a NEED arose and nature filled it, it is misleading horrible science.
[/Quote] Not sure how you can have a mythology of sperm turning into blood clot turning into embryo without nature containing enought intent to do supernatural magic.[/Quote]
“Proclaim! (or Read!) In the name Of thy Lord and Cherisher, WHO created—Created man, out of A (mere) clot Of congealed blood.”
[AL-QUR'AN 96:1-2]
The word 'alaq' besides meaning a congealed clot of blood also means something that clings, a leech-like substance. Dr. Keith Moore had no knowledge whether an embryo in the initial stages appears like a leech. To check this out he studied the initial stage of the embryo under a very powerful microscope in his laboratory and compared what he observed with a diagram of a leech and he was astonished at the striking resemblance between the two! In the same manner, he acquired more information on embryology, that was hitherto not known to him, from the QUR'AN.
Dr. Keith Moore answered about eighty questions dealing with embryological data mentioned in the QUR'AN and HADITH. Noting that the information contained in the QUR'AN and HADITH was in full agreement with the latest discoveries in the field of embryology, Prof. Moore said, “If I was asked these questions thirty years ago, I would not have been able to answer half of them for lack of scientific information.”
Dr. Keith Moore had earlier authored the book, 'The Developing Human'.After acquiring new knowledge from the QUR'AN, he wrote, in 1982, the 3rd edition of the same book, 'The Developing Human'. The book was the recipient of an award for the best medical book written by a single author. This book has been translated into several major languages of the world and is used as a textbook of embryology in the first year of medical studies. In 1981, during the Seventh Medical Conference in Dammam, Saudi Arabia, Dr. Moore said, “It has been a great pleasure for me to help clarify statements in the QUR'AN about human development. It is clear to me that these statements must have come to MUHAMMAD—sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam— from GOD or ALLAH, because almost all of this knowledge was not discovered until many centuries later. This proves to me that MUHAMMAD—sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam— must have been a messenger of GOD or ALLAH{The reference for this statement is the video tape titled 'This is the Truth'.For a copy of this video tape contact the Islamic Research Foundation}.
Dr. Joe Leigh Simpson, Chairman of the Department of Obstetrics and Gynaecology, at the Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, U.S.A., proclaims: “… these HADITHS, sayings of MUHAMMAD—sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam— could not have been obtained on the basis of the scientific knowledge that was available at the time of the writer (7th century). It follows that not only is there no conflict between genetics and religion (ISLAM) but in fact religion (ISLAM) may guide science by adding revelation to some of the traditional scientific approaches… there exist statements in the QUR'AN shown centuries later to be valid which support knowledge in the QUR'AN having been derived from GOD.”
MAN CREATED FROM A DROP EMITTED FROM BETWEEN THE BACKBONE AND THE RIBS
“Now let man but think From what he is created! He is created from A drop emitted — Proceeding from between The back bone and the ribs.”
[AL-QUR'AN 86:5-7]
In embryonic stages, the reproductive organs of the male and female, i.e. the testicles and the ovaries, begin their development near the kidney between the spinal column and the eleventh and twelfth ribs. Later they descend; the female gonads(ovaries) stop in the pelvis while the male gonads(testicles) continue their descent before birth to reach the scrotum through the inguinal canal. Even in the adult after the descent of the reproductive organ, these organs receive their nerve supply and blood supply from the Abdominal Aorta, which is in the area between the back bone(spinal column) and the ribs. Even the lymphatic drainage and the venous return goes to the same area.
http://www.answering-christianity.com/embryology.htm
Quote Are you meaning to discredit natural selection or include it in your confused myth? No such thing the way you believe it to be
Quote The first part of your last paragraph is incoherent. As for the second half, this is the whole story of evolution by natural selection in one example. You claim to have some understanding of natural selection and yet it appears you cannot grasp how a tiny increment in blood pressure adds a tiny increment in adaptive pressure to greater cell stickiness, and eventually adaptive change in existing systems to clotting brought on by natural selection “discovering” (without intent) that when blood vessel cells are damaged, particular proteins are allowed to come together to advantage. Wrong. You make no sense if you were correct High blood pressure would be creating a whole new order of human beings
Quote The blood clot and the means by which it is produced are the result of adaptive change of systems that had other jobs in distant ancestors. The clot has evolved. Not sure where that leaves your origin myth: it requires absurd acts of magic the way it is written anyway. No, it simply requires you to want to learn about God
BD
Quote Stop playing! Sticky white cells would be blood clotting cells
Wrong, sorry. You obviously don’t understand what a blood clot is.Quote Then stop saying a NEED arose and nature filled it, it is misleading horrible science.
It is not horrible science, it is perfectly correct. There is no implication of intent there.Quote “Proclaim! (or Read!) In the name Of thy Lord and Cherisher, WHO created—Created man, out of A (mere) clot Of congealed blood.” [AL-QUR'AN 96:1-2]
“Now let man but think From what he is created! He is created from A drop emitted — Proceeding from between The back bone and the ribs.”
[AL-QUR'AN 86:5-7]
So which is it? Backbone juice or blood clot?What a load of religious woo you copied and posted from an islamic creationist website. Nowhere does it state the fact that humans are a recent species with common ancestry with chimpanzees within the past 7 million years, and further older common ancestry with all other living species, as demonstrated independently in fossil morphology, molecular data and other lines of evidence like endogenous retroviruses.
Stu: Are you meaning to discredit natural selection or include it in your confused myth?
Quote No such thing the way you believe it to be
Huh? What exactly have I got wrong, and how is it wrong?Quote You make no sense if you were correct High blood pressure would be creating a whole new order of human beings
Why?Stu: The blood clot and the means by which it is produced are the result of adaptive change of systems that had other jobs in distant ancestors. The clot has evolved. Not sure where that leaves your origin myth: it requires absurd acts of magic the way it is written anyway.
Quote No, it simply requires you to want to learn about God
I knew already that you would not understand my answer, and even less be able to criticise it intelligently. You are hypocritical because you want the enormous success of real science to be reflected in your mindless Dark Age mythology in order to give it credibility: that was the purpose of the waffly babble you copied and pasted from an islamist apologist website. Now this is pointed out to you, you are just playing the mindless faith card. I think Ken Miller has soundly defeated islamic mythology as any kind of serious explanation for natural history, although that was not even his goal.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Nov. 21 2010,12:40) BD Quote Stop playing! Sticky white cells would be blood clotting cells
Wrong, sorry. You obviously don’t understand what a blood clot is.Quote Then stop saying a NEED arose and nature filled it, it is misleading horrible science.
It is not horrible science, it is perfectly correct. There is no implication of intent there.Quote “Proclaim! (or Read!) In the name Of thy Lord and Cherisher, WHO created—Created man, out of A (mere) clot Of congealed blood.” [AL-QUR'AN 96:1-2]
“Now let man but think From what he is created! He is created from A drop emitted — Proceeding from between The back bone and the ribs.”
[AL-QUR'AN 86:5-7]
So which is it? Backbone juice or blood clot?What a load of religious woo you copied and posted from an islamic creationist website. Nowhere does it state the fact that humans are a recent species with common ancestry with chimpanzees within the past 7 million years, and further older common ancestry with all other living species, as demonstrated independently in fossil morphology, molecular data and other lines of evidence like endogenous retroviruses.
Stu: Are you meaning to discredit natural selection or include it in your confused myth?
Quote No such thing the way you believe it to be
Huh? What exactly have I got wrong, and how is it wrong?Quote You make no sense if you were correct High blood pressure would be creating a whole new order of human beings
Why?Stu: The blood clot and the means by which it is produced are the result of adaptive change of systems that had other jobs in distant ancestors. The clot has evolved. Not sure where that leaves your origin myth: it requires absurd acts of magic the way it is written anyway.
Quote No, it simply requires you to want to learn about God
I knew already that you would not understand my answer, and even less be able to criticise it intelligently. You are hypocritical because you want the enormous success of real science to be reflected in your mindless Dark Age mythology in order to give it credibility: that was the purpose of the waffly babble you copied and pasted from an islamist apologist website. Now this is pointed out to you, you are just playing the mindless faith card. I think Ken Miller has soundly defeated islamic mythology as any kind of serious explanation for natural history, although that was not even his goal.Stuart
Stu,You already know you will never concede a point no matter what and that's what you and ED have in Common. You told me virgin birth was impossible and you changed your position and would not concede that it can occur.
You spoke about Morality and became silent when I said you think it is Moral that a Father and consentual age Son has intercourse.
You wouldn't even concede that a woman has the absolute right to choose and practice the religion of her choice and all that comes with it.
You are an unreliable person to argue with and most likely it has to do with your lack of a standard morality. Honesty is not something that you must practice unless you “feel like it”
Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2010,09:07) Quran Allah created Man from Blood Clot Enjoy!
ED,Have you absolutely no sense? Why would you be arguing against the creation of man by God?
O mankind! reverence your Guardian-Lord, who created you from a single person, created, of like nature, His mate, and from them twain scattered (like seeds) countless men and women;- reverence Allah, through whom ye demand your mutual (rights), and (reverence) the wombs (That bore you): for Allah ever watches over you.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #1)Is this true or false?
Allah doth wish to lighten your (difficulties): For man was created Weak (in flesh).
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #28)Is this true or false?
We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape;
( سورة الحجر , Al-Hijr, Chapter #15, Verse #26)Is this true or false?
He has created man from a sperm-drop; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer!
( سورة النحل , An-Nahl, Chapter #16, Verse #4)Is this true or false?
His companion said to him, in the course of the argument with him: “Dost thou deny Him Who created thee out of dust, then out of a sperm-drop, then fashioned thee into a man?
( سورة الكهف , Al-Kahf, Chapter #18, Verse #37)Is this true or False?
You are so unaware someone has you arguing against your own beliefs. Will you then turn to STU and say that God created man out of dust when he says that sounds silly when you have just said the same thing about something far more reasonable?
Weren't you created from a sperm drop and had it not been for blood clotting factors you would not have even been born or have been able to attach to your mothers uterine wall. You fight against the Knowledge of God
BD
Quote You already know you will never concede a point no matter what and that's what you and ED have in Common. You told me virgin birth was impossible and you changed your position and would not concede that it can occur.
Virgin birth is not possible in humans, for the reason I showed you. Are you STILL claiming that Jesus was a shark?Quote You spoke about Morality and became silent when I said you think it is Moral that a Father and consentual age Son has intercourse.
No I didn’t. I said I could see no reason why it was immoral, and I asked you whether you thought it an issue that arises very often. It was you who did not reply to that, if you remember.Quote You wouldn't even concede that a woman has the absolute right to choose and practice the religion of her choice and all that comes with it.
Again, no I didn’t. I demonstrated that islam rips off womens’ rights, which is not the same thing as wishing to deny freedom of religion.Quote You are an unreliable person to argue with and most likely it has to do with your lack of a standard morality. Honesty is not something that you must practice unless you “feel like it”
It is not me who has an international reputation for unreliability, hypocrisy, lying, changing the subject constantly and especially when losing the argument, and following a religion that has been shown to be immoral by most standards despite your fleeting attempts to defend it.In just this one post of yours you have attacked two strawmen and lied about what I wrote one further time.
Get back to us when you have a logically valid argument that does not rely on attacking things people never said.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Nov. 22 2010,15:52) Quote
Virgin birth is not possible in humans, for the reason I showed you. Are you STILL claiming that Jesus was a shark?Virgin humans cannot get pregnant? So a woman can only get pregnant through sexual intercourse?
Quote You spoke about Morality and became silent when I said you think it is Moral that a Father and consentual age Son has intercourse. Quote No I didn’t. I said I could see no reason why it was immoral, and I asked you whether you thought it an issue that arises very often. It was you who did not reply to that, if you remember. how often is not the issue because you agree that anytime would be Moral and that shows your sickness and why those that keep rejecting God have a Painful punishment awaiting them
Quote You wouldn't even concede that a woman has the absolute right to choose and practice the religion of her choice and all that comes with it. Quote Again, no I didn’t. I demonstrated that islam rips off womens’ rights, which is not the same thing as wishing to deny freedom of religion. according to you having no morals is a right as I said before you think a woman has a right to be Nude or near nude in public but you think it is a subtraction of rights for a woman to be covered, you are sick and it is that kind of person who thinks like that who have a painful punishment coming to them. Those who don't believe in any resurrection so act anyway they see fit with no thought of a day or an hour of Judgement but when they see the reality it will be sheer terror on their faces.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2010,12:38) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2010,09:07) Quran Allah created Man from Blood Clot Enjoy!
ED,Have you absolutely no sense? Why would you be arguing against the creation of man by God?
O mankind! reverence your Guardian-Lord, who created you from a single person, created, of like nature, His mate, and from them twain scattered (like seeds) countless men and women;- reverence Allah, through whom ye demand your mutual (rights), and (reverence) the wombs (That bore you): for Allah ever watches over you.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #1)Is this true or false?
Allah doth wish to lighten your (difficulties): For man was created Weak (in flesh).
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #28)Is this true or false?
We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape;
( سورة الحجر , Al-Hijr, Chapter #15, Verse #26)Is this true or false?
He has created man from a sperm-drop; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer!
( سورة النحل , An-Nahl, Chapter #16, Verse #4)Is this true or false?
His companion said to him, in the course of the argument with him: “Dost thou deny Him Who created thee out of dust, then out of a sperm-drop, then fashioned thee into a man?
( سورة الكهف , Al-Kahf, Chapter #18, Verse #37)Is this true or False?
You are so unaware someone has you arguing against your own beliefs. Will you then turn to STU and say that God created man out of dust when he says that sounds silly when you have just said the same thing about something far more reasonable?
Weren't you created from a sperm drop and had it not been for blood clotting factors you would not have even been born or have been able to attach to your mothers uterine wall. You fight against the Knowledge of God
Hi Everyone,For the reader's sake:
I(Ed J) no longer Post directly to BD, nor answer his postulating questions,
because BD continues to make outrageous personal attacks
which go ignored by the owner of this site.
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