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SimplyForgiven
Stu: I think it is wrong for christians to call homosexuals sinners. Does that mean I can call my position righteous?
Quote I think its wrong when Christians condemn homosexuals as immoral creatures when they themselves are not as holy. Christ is for the sinners, they accused him for being so close and spending so much time with them. I dont believe its right to be homosexul, but i dont condemn them. Thats Gods job, not mine.
Well none of us are compeletly righteous.
Now if your saying that doing something that one believes is right makes his position righteous i would disagree.
What about whether my position is righteous? By the way, why is it wrong to be homosexual? Do you have a rationale to this, or do you just point to a dusty book? How are the book-pointers any different from the concentration camp guards?Quote Your more of a saint than i could ever be.
I'm not sure that is really a compliment, is it?! My point is that ethics have a strong genetic component.Quote Actually since i believe that Adam and Eve were real, before the bible existed, these two understood the concept of sin.
Why do you believe that myth? It is not real history, it cannot possibly be.Stu: You have not “insipred” a book in which you admit to the slaughter of up to 24,000,000 humans. I think you are more ethically in the right than the monster you worship.
Quote Who are you speaking of?
Tell me about these people?
Of whom do you speak of?
Maybe we should study who these people were, and think about it.
maybe just than we can understand God.
Do a Google search on “how many has god killed?”. The uncertainty in the figure of 24,000,000 is due to not knowing the population of the earth at the time of the flood. Of course the flood didn't happen, so there is little point mathematically pursuing a myth. I would be happy just to quote the total number of people that the OT says have been killed by your god, which I believe is around 2,300,000. In the same way, since there almost certainly is no such thing as a god of any kind, these are really numbers of people killed by other people, or natural disasters.Quote Oh because Jesus was condemned by the Jews, he was condemned as a “sinner” even though he was innocent and took our place to be punished. he was a lamb who took our place. when it comes to scarfice its true at one point that animals were scraficed, but when it comes to Christ i wouldnt call it a typical human scarfice. He took our place.
Call it what you like: a human was killed as a scapegoat. Isn't that a human sacrifice? Your religion insists that you believe you are exonerated by this death, your crimes are made good by the execution of someone else. Not sure how that is ethical.Quote You should know that any word can mean anything to anybody. for example Jesus means savoir to Christians, a prophet to the muslims and etc. Even Jesus being the literal Son of God or God himself.
One word can mean alot of things depending on the person.
I seek to understand what you think about it,
Its obvious what Christians believe what sin is. a Transgression and what not towards God.
It is not obvious to me what christians think sin is. Can you tell me?Stuart
Quote (Stu @ July 14 2010,06:15) SimplyForgiven Stu: I think it is wrong for christians to call homosexuals sinners. Does that mean I can call my position righteous?
Quote I think its wrong when Christians condemn homosexuals as immoral creatures when they themselves are not as holy. Christ is for the sinners, they accused him for being so close and spending so much time with them. I dont believe its right to be homosexul, but i dont condemn them. Thats Gods job, not mine.
Well none of us are compeletly righteous.
Now if your saying that doing something that one believes is right makes his position righteous i would disagree.
What about whether my position is righteous? By the way, why is it wrong to be homosexual? Do you have a rationale to this, or do you just point to a dusty book? How are the book-pointers any different from the concentration camp guards?Quote Your more of a saint than i could ever be.
I'm not sure that is really a compliment, is it?! My point is that ethics have a strong genetic component.Quote Actually since i believe that Adam and Eve were real, before the bible existed, these two understood the concept of sin.
Why do you believe that myth? It is not real history, it cannot possibly be.Stu: You have not “insipred” a book in which you admit to the slaughter of up to 24,000,000 humans. I think you are more ethically in the right than the monster you worship.
Quote Who are you speaking of?
Tell me about these people?
Of whom do you speak of?
Maybe we should study who these people were, and think about it.
maybe just than we can understand God.
Do a Google search on “how many has god killed?”. The uncertainty in the figure of 24,000,000 is due to not knowing the population of the earth at the time of the flood. Of course the flood didn't happen, so there is little point mathematically pursuing a myth. I would be happy just to quote the total number of people that the OT says have been killed by your god, which I believe is around 2,300,000. In the same way, since there almost certainly is no such thing as a god of any kind, these are really numbers of people killed by other people, or natural disasters.Quote Oh because Jesus was condemned by the Jews, he was condemned as a “sinner” even though he was innocent and took our place to be punished. he was a lamb who took our place. when it comes to scarfice its true at one point that animals were scraficed, but when it comes to Christ i wouldnt call it a typical human scarfice. He took our place.
Call it what you like: a human was killed as a scapegoat. Isn't that a human sacrifice? Your religion insists that you believe you are exonerated by this death, your crimes are made good by the execution of someone else. Not sure how that is ethical.Quote You should know that any word can mean anything to anybody. for example Jesus means savoir to Christians, a prophet to the muslims and etc. Even Jesus being the literal Son of God or God himself.
One word can mean alot of things depending on the person.
I seek to understand what you think about it,
Its obvious what Christians believe what sin is. a Transgression and what not towards God.
It is not obvious to me what christians think sin is. Can you tell me?Stuart
Quote What about whether my position is righteous? By the way, why is it wrong to be homosexual? Do you have a rationale to this, or do you just point to a dusty book? How are the book-pointers any different from the concentration camp guards?
im stating that just because someone believes they are doing the right thing, doesnt mean they are righteous or perfect good people. Just because someone believes its ok to steal doesent mean taht everyone would agree nor that its ethical correct.I believe homosexuality is incorrect. Actually, my friends who are homosexuals know that im against it, but doesnt mean that im going to shut them out. so what are you trying to claim?
i dont understand how in “america” everyone can vote for whatever reason they want to,
but its wrong for me to believe, something is wrong?
correct me if im mistaken but i have every right to believe that its incorrect.Quote I'm not sure that is really a compliment, is it?! My point is that ethics have a strong genetic component.
You didnt respond correctly. you asked me if i was willing to kill, or murder, im telling you that i have already made that choice.
you stated that you couldnt do such a thing.
and i said thats good.my point, is that we are very evil beings, yes we are willing to do the must gruesome things believe it or not, it doesnt matter because i know, because i have seen it, and lived it.
I do not believe you been out much. but the world is more disgusting than you know.
Quote Why do you believe that myth? It is not real history, it cannot possibly be.
IF i believe it to be true, than its truth to me obviously. I would say it is real history, and that it sure can possible be.
Either way there is a first man, and a first woman.Quote Do a Google search on “how many has god killed?”. The uncertainty in the figure of 24,000,000 is due to not knowing the population of the earth at the time of the flood. Of course the flood didn't happen, so there is little point mathematically pursuing a myth. I would be happy just to quote the total number of people that the OT says have been killed by your god, which I believe is around 2,300,000. In the same way, since there almost certainly is no such thing as a god of any kind, these are really numbers of people killed by other people, or natural disasters. Wait lol you dont even know who these people are?
you look at the numbers… yet what?
Do you know why?
what happen?
so lets gets this straight do you believe taken one persons life is unethical? or does it depends on circumstance?
So if God had the ethical reason to kill, would that be unethical?Quote Call it what you like: a human was killed as a scapegoat. Isn't that a human sacrifice? Your religion insists that you believe you are exonerated by this death, your crimes are made good by the execution of someone else. Not sure how that is ethical.
No thats not human sacrifice. ITs called judgement.Do you know what a scrafice is? usually in the moives they need a virgin girl or some kid or what not, to PLEASE GOD.
in this case, this man was deemed guilty, as a sinner, as a blasphemer.
this is more than just a scrafice, this man was condemned.our crimes are made good through innocent blood, that was wrongly condemned but did it in order to save us, since we could never save ourselves.
Its like a father taking a bullet for his son?
would you call that unethical?This bullet was called judgement,
Jesus stepped in by Choice.Quote It is not obvious to me what christians think sin is. Can you tell me?
What is sin?
Sin is everythign that is evil about us, everything that is gruesome,
every action that is wrong and evil.Sin basically is when you choose to do wrong, and its a choice that is against God.
sense there isnt any sin that is greater or less than another, all sin is a transgression against God who is nothing but good.
Sin in other words is the oppoiste of obediance.
the compelet rebellion agaisnt God, through open actions that are without him.
and not just agaisnt God but as bod also added against eachother.
not loving your brother is a trangression in Gods eyes.
Gods sees hate as murder.
We must love eachother.thats the gist of it.
much love,
Quote (Stu @ July 14 2010,11:54) Quote (Ed J @ July 12 2010,11:41) Hi Stuart, You seem to defend homosexuals a lot, are you one?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
I'm not homosexual, so I guess I am safe from being stoned by a Jew or taunted by a Paulist as being “worthy of death” on that account.Of those who condemn homosexuality, I always wonder which famous gay person he would taunt / stone first.
Stephen Fry?
Oscar Wilde?
Martina Navratalova?
Ian McKellen?
Michelangelo??Stuart
Greetings Stu…..WOW !! all those famous people were gay….says who??? Is their testimony available for review,have they made any public announcements….A persons proclivities are personal and private….unless they decide to declare themselves….however the lifestyle has no means to procreate so it uses propaganda as one of many medias available……SimplyForgiven
Quote I believe homosexuality is incorrect. Actually, my friends who are homosexuals know that im against it, but doesnt mean that im going to shut them out. so what are you trying to claim?
i dont understand how in “america” everyone can vote for whatever reason they want to,
but its wrong for me to believe, something is wrong?
correct me if im mistaken but i have every right to believe that its incorrect.
You sure do. The problem is that you are playing your part in making life miserable for others with no rationale to support it. Is that what your god demands of you? What a nasty thing to worship.Quote my point, is that we are very evil beings, yes we are willing to do the must gruesome things believe it or not, it doesnt matter because i know, because i have seen it, and lived it. I do not believe you been out much. but the world is more disgusting than you know.
I think the overwhelming majority of people are responsible and ethical. It is a mistake to base your analysis of the world on the worst 5%. There is also the principle of giving a dog a name, which christianity actively avoids, for what I can only imagine are political reasons. The army does the same thing to its recruits: break 'em down to nothing then rebuild 'em with carefully selection reassurance designed to reinforce the unthinking commitment to the commanding officer. Never tell people they are good, they might actually start to believe it with the dangerous result that they could start thinking for themselves.Quote IF i believe it to be true, than its truth to me obviously. I would say it is real history, and that it sure can possible be. Either way there is a first man, and a first woman.
No there wasn't. The fact is there never was a time when there were just two humans. Evolution happens to whole populations, and there is no definitive time in the past when you could say there were no humans then suddenly they appeared. I'm just telling you what the fossil record and the independent molecular record both say about this. I'm not trying to wind you up or assert my mythology over yours, these are as good a set of facts as you will find anywhere.Quote So if God had the ethical reason to kill, would that be unethical?
Are you suggesting that an omnipotent ruler of the universe would need to kill in self-defense??Quote No thats not human sacrifice. ITs called judgement. Do you know what a scrafice is? usually in the moives they need a virgin girl or some kid or what not, to PLEASE GOD. in this case, this man was deemed guilty, as a sinner, as a blasphemer. this is more than just a scrafice, this man was condemned.
Well it was a punishment as far as the Romans were concerned, but then some Iron Age zealots invented a man-god myth around that alleged event.Quote our crimes are made good through innocent blood, that was wrongly condemned but did it in order to save us, since we could never save ourselves.
Yeah, it's the “making good by innocent blood” bit that is obscene.[quIts like a father taking a bullet for his son?
would you call that unethical? [/quote]
As an act of defense in a shooting, no, but if it is taking the rap and facing the firing squad then yes.Quote This bullet was called judgement,
Jesus stepped in by Choice.
And you insist that unless I accept that nasty fantasy story then I will suffer punishment by fire. Nice.Quote What is sin? Sin is everythign that is evil about us, everything that is gruesome,
every action that is wrong and evil. Sin basically is when you choose to do wrong, and its a choice that is against God. sense there isnt any sin that is greater or less than another, all sin is a transgression against God who is nothing but good. Sin in other words is the oppoiste of obediance.
the compelet rebellion agaisnt God, through open actions that are without him.and not just agaisnt God but as bod also added against eachother.not loving your brother is a trangression in Gods eyes.
Gods sees hate as murderWe must love eachother. thats the gist of it.
I'm sorry but what a load of meaningless drivel. Define evil, define gruesome, define wrong, define “against god”, define good, define obedience, define rebellion, show me that rebellion against a violent character that has boasted about killing millions is wrong. Tell me that this character has any credibility making up laws about killing.Stuart
STU,
You are talking out of both sides of your mouth.
You keep spouting what is wrong and then you keep stating nothing is really wrong but that proves what I said about atheists before to them right and wrong is arbitrary
Stu,July wrote:[/quote]
Stu,
Your starting to be unreasonable.
Your stating what i have not said.
and making conclusions based on what i did not say nor do.Quote You sure do. The problem is that you are playing your part in making life miserable for others with no rationale to support it. Is that what your god demands of you? What a nasty thing to worship.
You claim im making life miserable for others. thats untrue nor do you have any evidence of that. Your a person based on facts, im shocked you make such conclusions.Fact is that if i ever saw a homosexul being attacked by a pastor or a christian, by being judge or mocked, i wuold be there defending the homosexual. FYI God commands us to love eachother.
Quote I think the overwhelming majority of people are responsible and ethical. It is a mistake to base your analysis of the world on the worst 5%. There is also the principle of giving a dog a name, which christianity actively avoids, for what I can only imagine are political reasons. The army does the same thing to its recruits: break 'em down to nothing then rebuild 'em with carefully selection reassurance designed to reinforce the unthinking commitment to the commanding officer. Never tell people they are good, they might actually start to believe it with the dangerous result that they could start thinking for themselves.
Lol You can believe that but thats untrue. Do you know how many people end up talking to a psychologist, do you know how many people are more than willing to kill. Did you know it takes one tramatic event to set a person off.
Actually my friend, the facts show the 5% are the good people.
You havent studied humanity enough, the secret things they have in their closet, the things they think about, is nasty.ACTUALLY. your again stating what i didnt say. WE are evil beings, and there are even ones who have nothing but good deeds. but thats not the point at all, to be good or evil, but to be in love, and having a relationship with God, is the goal and focus.
Come as you are, good or evil.
We tell the people that they are loved and let them think for themeselves as they CHOOSE to love others.Quote No there wasn't. The fact is there never was a time when there were just two humans. Evolution happens to whole populations, and there is no definitive time in the past when you could say there were no humans then suddenly they appeared. I'm just telling you what the fossil record and the independent molecular record both say about this. I'm not trying to wind you up or assert my mythology over yours, these are as good a set of facts as you will find anywhere.
Actually thats a theory not fact.
and for the sake of debate, lets say evolution is true, you would still be wrong. because not one individual is EXACTLY the same as the other. if there is a process of change at a given point in time, than it is VERY possible for at least a second in the history of earth for there to be 1 or 2 humans.
This isnt oberservable so it remains in the basis of theory.
we have always obesreved two genders, i can correctly assume its always been that way.
you couldnt say thats not possible nor that it is.Quote Are you suggesting that an omnipotent ruler of the universe would need to kill in self-defense??
you avoided the question. and stating what i did not say.
did i state to self-defense?
is it self-defense when a judge gives the death penalty to the criminal?besides that, i didnt even elude to that.
stick to the question.
if God had the ethical reason to kill, would that be unethical, in other words, if God as a judge had the right to kill, would that not be justice?Quote Well it was a punishment as far as the Romans were concerned, but then some Iron Age zealots invented a man-god myth around that alleged event.
In this case romans were being used by the Jews. So fact he was condemned by the jews to die a sinners death. anyone who died in a cross was Jewish “belief” to go straight to hell. It was curse to be on a cross. Dioynsus was also made to mirror such an event, but if you study the story it is no where near the same. its called counterfiets of myths compared to an actual event.Quote Yeah, it's the “making good by innocent blood” bit that is obscene.
A father does good when he takes a bullet for his son.Quote As an act of defense in a shooting, no, but if it is taking the rap and facing the firing squad then yes.
lol not if its done by choice.
lol ok lets change the example.
A son is about to be condemned, the father takes his place, and dies in his stead. is that unethical if the father did that out of love to save his son?Quote And you insist that unless I accept that nasty fantasy story then I will suffer punishment by fire. Nice.
do you love stating the things i did not say. are you feeling conviction? thats the only reason you would say such a thing, if i have not stated it.Quote I'm sorry but what a load of meaningless drivel. Define evil, define gruesome, define wrong, define “against god”, define good, define obedience, define rebellion, show me that rebellion against a violent character that has boasted about killing millions is wrong. Tell me that this character has any credibility making up laws about killing.
You keep on talking about the milllions yet you have no idea why they died. can you tell me? do you care about how many died in hiroshima during the atomic bomb?
First of all evil, is doing things that are not good, the oppiste opposing force of Good. Evil is everything that is selfish, and seeks to please itself. Evil is filled with hatred, hatred towards ideas and anyone who does not conform or please his/her self desiring glory or desires.
Good intentions are also evil, doing things in a belief that they are good, but are actually evil because it forces another individual to do what you think is correct, when the other person is unwilling to change, you force them to by forceing their hand, or by whatever means nessary.gruesome= something nasty,
disgusting.
wrong= opposite of right, doing everything that is not right, and doing everythign that is flawed and causes damages to the people around them.against God= any rebellion agaisnt Gods will, any seperate will from Gods is against him.
Good= is doing things righetously, making choices based on the good for others and for yourself, making choices based on love and truth.
obediance= is to follow a person. to correctly follow a code or orders that is presented. when it comes to God we must obey his will.
Rebellion- to attack or uphold ones own tought or desires agaisnt the orginal structure, and seek to over throw it.
Prove to me that he is violent? can you show me where God is constantitly violent?
the creditability comes through his perfection.
much love,
Quote (Stu @ July 14 2010,23:53) I think the overwhelming majority of people are responsible and ethical. It is a mistake to base your analysis of the world on the worst 5%. There is also the principle of giving a dog a name, which christianity actively avoids, for what I can only imagine are political reasons. The army does the same thing to its recruits: break 'em down to nothing then rebuild 'em with carefully selection reassurance designed to reinforce the unthinking commitment to the commanding officer. Never tell people they are good, they might actually start to believe it with the dangerous result that they could start thinking for themselves. Stuart
Hi Stuart,“We should think for ourselves” 'by listening to you'?
What you offer is 'a dichotomy'! Explain this, Stuart?Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (SimplyForgiven @ July 14 2010,19:28) [
What is sin?
Sin is everythign that is evil about us, everything that is gruesome,
every action that is wrong and evil.Sin basically is when you choose to do wrong, and its a choice that is against God.
sense there isnt any sin that is greater or less than another, all sin is a transgression against God who is nothing but good.
Sin in other words is the oppoiste of obediance.
the compelet rebellion agaisnt God, through open actions that are without him.
and not just agaisnt God but as bod also added against eachother.
not loving your brother is a trangression in Gods eyes.
Gods sees hate as murder.
We must love eachother.thats the gist of it.
much love,
Lets take a truthful look at the first time the word sin was used in the Bible. Gen.4:7….the Lord said, If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted?…and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door!Sin is not the “doest well” nor the “doest not well”…. Sin is the end result or byproduct or fruit of the judgement or the mental payment for choosing one as better in Gods eyes between two equal offerings.
Without a law, sin is dead. Without rules and regulations error/sin is dead. Without a law or rules or regulations a mistake or error or sin cannot be.
Preferential choice of one thing over another does not leave one thing or the other condemned or evil. It seems that man chose and began creating the idea of evil.
If there was only God in the begining and God is good. Then everything was good in Gods eyes he even said it is very good. Then man chose to believe in and experience evil where there was no evil. Then you have good and what man considers is evil. There is o real evil because all that was, was good/God.
Evil/error/sin is an illusion created in the mind of man that began and contiues to proliferate in the earth.
Evil beliefs through mans powerful mind of Christ manifested evil works or deeds until today.
The only way to rid the earth that belongs to man of the evil he has created is to believe that Jesus completely removed sin/evil from the world.
Then we should believe first that evil has been removed and we are clean, and made perfect again. This belief will eventually remove evil from the earth forever.
Religion has promoted destruction, anger, hatred, and all forms of evil for 2000 years by preaching that we are sinners. and unworthy, and unrighteous, and unclean before God.
There would have to be laws or rules to require obediance.
Nobody rebels against God/love. Love makes no demands!
What is evil? Is killing evil? What if someone is attacking your mother? How about murder? Pre-meditated plans to kill? Like war! Strategic planning of vicious attacks on masses of people. Who killed more people, Hitler, Jim Jones, George w. Bush, or the god of the old testament?
Some thoughts to ponder. TK
Quote (Tim Kraft @ July 15 2010,19:04) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ July 14 2010,19:28) [
What is sin?
Sin is everythign that is evil about us, everything that is gruesome,
every action that is wrong and evil.Sin basically is when you choose to do wrong, and its a choice that is against God.
sense there isnt any sin that is greater or less than another, all sin is a transgression against God who is nothing but good.
Sin in other words is the oppoiste of obediance.
the compelet rebellion agaisnt God, through open actions that are without him.
and not just agaisnt God but as bod also added against eachother.
not loving your brother is a trangression in Gods eyes.
Gods sees hate as murder.
We must love eachother.thats the gist of it.
much love,
Lets take a truthful look at the first time the word sin was used in the Bible. Gen.4:7….the Lord said, If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted?…and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door!Sin is not the “doest well” nor the “doest not well”…. Sin is the end result or byproduct or fruit of the judgement or the mental payment for choosing one as better in Gods eyes between two equal offerings.
Without a law, sin is dead. Without rules and regulations error/sin is dead. Without a law or rules or regulations a mistake or error or sin cannot be.
Preferential choice of one thing over another does not leave one thing or the other condemned or evil. It seems that man chose and began creating the idea of evil.
If there was only God in the begining and God is good. Then everything was good in Gods eyes he even said it is very good. Then man chose to believe in and experience evil where there was no evil. Then you have good and what man considers is evil. There is o real evil because all that was, was good/God.
Evil/error/sin is an illusion created in the mind of man that began and contiues to proliferate in the earth.
Evil beliefs through mans powerful mind of Christ manifested evil works or deeds until today.
The only way to rid the earth that belongs to man of the evil he has created is to believe that Jesus completely removed sin/evil from the world.
Then we should believe first that evil has been removed and we are clean, and made perfect again. This belief will eventually remove evil from the earth forever.
Religion has promoted destruction, anger, hatred, and all forms of evil for 2000 years by preaching that we are sinners. and unworthy, and unrighteous, and unclean before God.
There would have to be laws or rules to require obediance.
Nobody rebels against God/love. Love makes no demands!
What is evil? Is killing evil? What if someone is attacking your mother? How about murder? Pre-meditated plans to kill? Like war! Strategic planning of vicious attacks on masses of people. Who killed more people, Hitler, Jim Jones, George w. Bush, or the god of the old testament?
Some thoughts to ponder. TK
Tim no offense stick to the sin and mistakes thread.love does make demands, its to love back.
loves is based on a agreement not a one way street.
we love becasue he loved first.
1john.YOU NEED TO START USING BIBLE VERSES. you go off into tangents.
and your last point,
you would have to define what murder is.
to kill without a justified ethical cause would be murder.trust me when i say this Tim,
your not helping.
if you want to talk about the illusions of the mind some more,
lets go back to the mistakes thread.i will respond later.
Quote (Tim Kraft @ July 16 2010,01:04) Sin is not the “doest well” nor the “doest not well”…. Sin is the end result or byproduct or fruit of the judgement or the mental payment for choosing one as better in Gods eyes between two equal offerings.
Hi Tim,You need to take a closer at the two offerings…
THEY WERE NOT EQUAL as the ground that
produced the Cain's offering was cursed! (Gen.3:17)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ July 16 2010,13:55) Quote (Tim Kraft @ July 16 2010,01:04) Sin is not the “doest well” nor the “doest not well”…. Sin is the end result or byproduct or fruit of the judgement or the mental payment for choosing one as better in Gods eyes between two equal offerings.
Hi Tim,You need to take a closer at the two offerings…
THEY WERE NOT EQUAL as the ground that
produced the Cain's offering was cursed! (Gen.3:17)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed j: Good point. That takes care of the inequity of the offerings perhaps but the offerings or the actions somhow produced an error/sin.From that act of offerings, what caused a sin/mistake?
What do you think? Bless you, TK
Quote (Tim Kraft @ July 16 2010,21:40) Quote (Ed J @ July 16 2010,13:55) Quote (Tim Kraft @ July 16 2010,01:04) Sin is not the “doest well” nor the “doest not well”…. Sin is the end result or byproduct or fruit of the judgement or the mental payment for choosing one as better in Gods eyes between two equal offerings.
Hi Tim,You need to take a closer at the two offerings…
THEY WERE NOT EQUAL as the ground that
produced the Cain's offering was cursed! (Gen.3:17)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed j: Good point. That takes care of the inequity of the offerings perhaps but the offerings or the actions somhow produced an error/sin.From that act of offerings, what caused a sin/mistake?
What do you think? Bless you, TK
Hi Tim,Thanks for being receptive to “Bible Truth” as I've been praying fro you!
Cain's attitude of resentment caused him to act sinful
and kill his brother Abel. So it starts in the mind and
progresses to an evil action, that action is the sin!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (SimplyForgiven @ July 16 2010,06:22) Quote (Tim Kraft @ July 15 2010,19:04) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ July 14 2010,19:28) [
What is sin?
Sin is everythign that is evil about us, everything that is gruesome,
every action that is wrong and evil.Sin basically is when you choose to do wrong, and its a choice that is against God.
sense there isnt any sin that is greater or less than another, all sin is a transgression against God who is nothing but good.
Sin in other words is the oppoiste of obediance.
the compelet rebellion agaisnt God, through open actions that are without him.
and not just agaisnt God but as bod also added against eachother.
not loving your brother is a trangression in Gods eyes.
Gods sees hate as murder.
We must love eachother.thats the gist of it.
much love,
Lets take a truthful look at the first time the word sin was used in the Bible. Gen.4:7….the Lord said, If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted?…and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door!Sin is not the “doest well” nor the “doest not well”…. Sin is the end result or byproduct or fruit of the judgement or the mental payment for choosing one as better in Gods eyes between two equal offerings.
Without a law, sin is dead. Without rules and regulations error/sin is dead. Without a law or rules or regulations a mistake or error or sin cannot be.
Preferential choice of one thing over another does not leave one thing or the other condemned or evil. It seems that man chose and began creating the idea of evil.
If there was only God in the begining and God is good. Then everything was good in Gods eyes he even said it is very good. Then man chose to believe in and experience evil where there was no evil. Then you have good and what man considers is evil. There is o real evil because all that was, was good/God.
Evil/error/sin is an illusion created in the mind of man that began and contiues to proliferate in the earth.
Evil beliefs through mans powerful mind of Christ manifested evil works or deeds until today.
The only way to rid the earth that belongs to man of the evil he has created is to believe that Jesus completely removed sin/evil from the world.
Then we should believe first that evil has been removed and we are clean, and made perfect again. This belief will eventually remove evil from the earth forever.
Religion has promoted destruction, anger, hatred, and all forms of evil for 2000 years by preaching that we are sinners. and unworthy, and unrighteous, and unclean before God.
There would have to be laws or rules to require obediance.
Nobody rebels against God/love. Love makes no demands!
What is evil? Is killing evil? What if someone is attacking your mother? How about murder? Pre-meditated plans to kill? Like war! Strategic planning of vicious attacks on masses of people. Who killed more people, Hitler, Jim Jones, George w. Bush, or the god of the old testament?
Some thoughts to ponder. TK
Tim no offense stick to the sin and mistakes thread.love does make demands, its to love back.
loves is based on a agreement not a one way street.
we love becasue he loved first.
1john.YOU NEED TO START USING BIBLE VERSES. you go off into tangents.
and your last point,
you would have to define what murder is.
to kill without a justified ethical cause would be murder.trust me when i say this Tim,
your not helping.
if you want to talk about the illusions of the mind some more,
lets go back to the mistakes thread.i will respond later.
SF: I wanted Bod's opinion. Thats why I came here. Is that wrong too?
I used one scripture, you only used one scripture. Yet you tell me I go off on tangents.
If sin is the opposite of obediance then what was the original sin in Gen.4:7?Works are the opposite of faith. It union with God is by faith then your works are directly in opposition to God.
I may not be helping you but I may be saving people that have been taught that doing works saves your soul. I think you know in your heart that faith is the only connection to God.
If you are cleansed and joined to God by faith then the only way to separate from God is by disbelieving the same.
You cannot do good works to be in union with God. It is by faith in the works of Jesus.
You cannot fall away from God except believing you are separated for some reason.
There was no killing or murder in the world when Adam chose evil. There was only good, Adam was good until he chose evil.
All mankind is a perfect creation of God until they believe they are evil. Then they would be as you are. As a man believeth in his heart, so he is! TK
Quote (Ed J @ July 16 2010,21:50) Quote (Tim Kraft @ July 16 2010,21:40) Quote (Ed J @ July 16 2010,13:55) Quote (Tim Kraft @ July 16 2010,01:04) Sin is not the “doest well” nor the “doest not well”…. Sin is the end result or byproduct or fruit of the judgement or the mental payment for choosing one as better in Gods eyes between two equal offerings.
Hi Tim,You need to take a closer at the two offerings…
THEY WERE NOT EQUAL as the ground that
produced the Cain's offering was cursed! (Gen.3:17)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed j: Good point. That takes care of the inequity of the offerings perhaps but the offerings or the actions somhow produced an error/sin.From that act of offerings, what caused a sin/mistake?
What do you think? Bless you, TK
Hi Tim,Thanks for being receptive to “Bible Truth” as I've been praying fro you!
Cain's attitude of resentment caused him to act sinful
and kill his brother Abel. So it starts in the mind and
progresses to an evil action, that action is the sin!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J: Now we are getting closer to the key of life!The key of truth that you just said was, Sin starts in the mind and progresses to an evil action. I totally agree.
Thats why Jesus had to come and give us the truth and pay the price FOR US so that we could mentally go back to what we were originally, perfect humans made in the image of God.
Jesus paved the way to God by cleansing our minds from sin. If the mind is clean everything that comes from that person is clean.
When one believes Jesus has cleansed us, pure and whole, then from that mind flows the manifold power of Gods spirit.
From a sin-filled mind nothing but sin and all its byproducts can flow through. Believing comes first, always. From the mind and heart flow life or death.
If cleansed and pure, life, love,peace, joy, freedom, kindness et.al. are the fruit produced from that clean mind.
Believing sin in ones mind is believing unworhthyness, uncleanliness, unwholyness, unrighteousness, unforgivness and more. That is what will flow from a tainted, dirty mind.
Please think on this and respond. God bless you, TK
Quote (Tim Kraft @ July 16 2010,22:03) Works are the opposite of faith.
Hi Tim,You sure do have a lot of things mixed up Tim!
Fear is the opposite of faith! (1John 4:18)
Faith produces works, so faith and works go hand in hand! (James 2:18)James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show
me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Tim Kraft @ July 16 2010,22:23) Sin starts in the mind…
Hi Tim,Why are you putting 'spin' on what I said?
Sin is an action, NOT A THOUGHT!Quote (Ed J @ July 16 2010,22:37) Quote (Tim Kraft @ July 16 2010,22:03) Works are the opposite of faith.
Hi Tim,You sure do have a lot of things mixed up Tim!
Fear is the opposite of faith! (1John 4:18)
Faith produces works, so faith and works go hand in hand! (James 2:18)James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show
me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J: Could you please show me where I might have said that works are the opposite of faith. I don't believe I said that and if I did say that it was a mistake.Faith in God is faith in good! God is good,true?Faith in God then produces God/good works! Power works of healing and total salvation.
Jesus displayed Gods' works of healing and sent all believers out to do the same.
Helping someone across the street is a kind work but anybody and everybody can do that work.
Healing the sick is a God/good work. Faith in the annointing power of God working in us produces all the fruit of love and healing.
Faith believing Christ in you is the annointing and power of God to do the work of God.
Jesus went around doing good. What did he do? He healed all who came to him believing in his healing power.
The power of God works are by faith that God has cleansed you and annointed you for his work.
A dirty, sinful, unworhthy mind will produce dirty fruit.
A clean mind is full of love/God and that is the fruit produced.You said,”… sin starts in the mind and progresses to action”…! Sin came first in Adams' sons' mind and then came an evil work. That is true. Why try to change it to agree with the masses. Bless you, TK
Quote (Tim Kraft @ July 17 2010,00:16) Ed J: Could you please show me where I might have said that works are the opposite of faith. I don't believe I said that and if I did say that it was a mistake. Bless you, TK
Hi Tim,Not counting this Post here, it is located exactly five Posts up.
Look at the time, its in this thread, in the second Paragraph.
Well I'm glad to see we can reason together! (Isaiah 1:18)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Tim Kraft @ July 17 2010,00:16) You said,”… sin starts in the mind and progresses to action”…!
Hi Tim,Quit saying I said that, because I didn't; you did!
I said: “sin is an action, NOT A THOUGHT”!Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Tim Kraft @ July 16 2010,16:03) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ July 16 2010,06:22) Quote (Tim Kraft @ July 15 2010,19:04) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ July 14 2010,19:28) [
What is sin?
Sin is everythign that is evil about us, everything that is gruesome,
every action that is wrong and evil.Sin basically is when you choose to do wrong, and its a choice that is against God.
sense there isnt any sin that is greater or less than another, all sin is a transgression against God who is nothing but good.
Sin in other words is the oppoiste of obediance.
the compelet rebellion agaisnt God, through open actions that are without him.
and not just agaisnt God but as bod also added against eachother.
not loving your brother is a trangression in Gods eyes.
Gods sees hate as murder.
We must love eachother.thats the gist of it.
much love,
Lets take a truthful look at the first time the word sin was used in the Bible. Gen.4:7….the Lord said, If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted?…and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door!Sin is not the “doest well” nor the “doest not well”…. Sin is the end result or byproduct or fruit of the judgement or the mental payment for choosing one as better in Gods eyes between two equal offerings.
Without a law, sin is dead. Without rules and regulations error/sin is dead. Without a law or rules or regulations a mistake or error or sin cannot be.
Preferential choice of one thing over another does not leave one thing or the other condemned or evil. It seems that man chose and began creating the idea of evil.
If there was only God in the begining and God is good. Then everything was good in Gods eyes he even said it is very good. Then man chose to believe in and experience evil where there was no evil. Then you have good and what man considers is evil. There is o real evil because all that was, was good/God.
Evil/error/sin is an illusion created in the mind of man that began and contiues to proliferate in the earth.
Evil beliefs through mans powerful mind of Christ manifested evil works or deeds until today.
The only way to rid the earth that belongs to man of the evil he has created is to believe that Jesus completely removed sin/evil from the world.
Then we should believe first that evil has been removed and we are clean, and made perfect again. This belief will eventually remove evil from the earth forever.
Religion has promoted destruction, anger, hatred, and all forms of evil for 2000 years by preaching that we are sinners. and unworthy, and unrighteous, and unclean before God.
There would have to be laws or rules to require obediance.
Nobody rebels against God/love. Love makes no demands!
What is evil? Is killing evil? What if someone is attacking your mother? How about murder? Pre-meditated plans to kill? Like war! Strategic planning of vicious attacks on masses of people. Who killed more people, Hitler, Jim Jones, George w. Bush, or the god of the old testament?
Some thoughts to ponder. TK
Tim no offense stick to the sin and mistakes thread.love does make demands, its to love back.
loves is based on a agreement not a one way street.
we love becasue he loved first.
1john.YOU NEED TO START USING BIBLE VERSES. you go off into tangents.
and your last point,
you would have to define what murder is.
to kill without a justified ethical cause would be murder.trust me when i say this Tim,
your not helping.
if you want to talk about the illusions of the mind some more,
lets go back to the mistakes thread.i will respond later.
SF: I wanted Bod's opinion. Thats why I came here. Is that wrong too?
I used one scripture, you only used one scripture. Yet you tell me I go off on tangents.
If sin is the opposite of obediance then what was the original sin in Gen.4:7?Works are the opposite of faith. It union with God is by faith then your works are directly in opposition to God.
I may not be helping you but I may be saving people that have been taught that doing works saves your soul. I think you know in your heart that faith is the only connection to God.
If you are cleansed and joined to God by faith then the only way to separate from God is by disbelieving the same.
You cannot do good works to be in union with God. It is by faith in the works of Jesus.
You cannot fall away from God except believing you are separated for some reason.
There was no killing or murder in the world when Adam chose evil. There was only good, Adam was good until he chose evil.
All mankind is a perfect creation of God until they believe they are evil. Then they would be as you are. As a man believeth in his heart, so he is! TK
Tim Kraft,You are as blind as a bat.
I say this because your compelelty clueless about what im saying,
I NEVER SAID U NEED TO DO GOOD WORK TO BE SAVED.
You can have Bod opinion all you want, but you quoted me, so therefore you called me out.
notice i might only state one scripture, but im actualyl repeating scripture several times.
as for you, you do not do that.
you state ideas, im stating scripture big difference.in this thread im being more laid back in that,
but you do go off into tangents several times.do you even know waht faith is?
Faith is the EVIDENCE in the things that are hoped for that are unseen.I never said works save a soul.
you got it all wrong,
you my friend cannot save anyone, the bible is clear that it is God that saves.i dont trust my heart, you shouldnt trust your heart also,
the heart is wicked, who can know it?Faith is a connection to God, i never said it wasnt, but FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD FAITH, THIS IS A BIBLE VERSE SON LOOK IT UP.
1 corinthians 13 disagrees with you!
LOVE IS THE ONLY CONNECTION TO GOD.
you can have all the faith to move mountains, yet not have love, you are nothing.everything is not set on belief but lifestyle which is the result of faith.
ALL MANKIND IS IMPERFECT AND FLAWED, THEY FAILED, THE DISOBEYED!!!
no a man that has faith in his heart is damned.
becareful
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