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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 11 2007,14:18) Hi 94,
Scripture says
Mt 17
” 3And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. “Mk9
” 4And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.”Lk9
“29And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.30And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:
31Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.”
Moses and Elijah were as real as Jesus was.
They live ever in the Spirit of God.
I suspect they were woken from glorious slumber as the witch of Endor did with Samuel.
Hi Nick:I suppose that is so, God is able to raise Moses up from his slumber and to bring Elijah to converse with Jesus from where ever he was, but in the case of John, he is shown conversing with an elder about those who are arrayed in white robes that have come out of great tribulation which is a future event. Perhaps this is why the book is called Revelation.
Quote Revelation 1
1:1
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
1:2
Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.God Bless
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 11 2007,14:10) Hi 94,
So was John in the vision he was seeing??
No, I don't think that John was seeing himself in this vision.Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
John was IN the Spirit.
Quote Nobody is in Heaven except He that came from Heaven right now.
Im4, do you believe anyone ever goes to heaven?Quote Hi David,
John spoke with one of the ELDERS.
How could this elder have been symbolic?
Well Nick, since the things John was seeing were of the future (taking place in the “lord's day” (1:10) how could that person have been real? Was John speaking with a real person from the future? Or was he speaking with someone who represented something? The very first verse of this book says that it was presented in “signs.”Anyway, does anyone have any actual comments on my long post, with the scriptures?
Quote (942767 @ Dec. 11 2007,14:50) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 11 2007,14:18) Hi 94,
Scripture says
Mt 17
” 3And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. “Mk9
” 4And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.”Lk9
“29And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.30And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:
31Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.”
Moses and Elijah were as real as Jesus was.
They live ever in the Spirit of God.
I suspect they were woken from glorious slumber as the witch of Endor did with Samuel.
Hi Nick:I suppose that is so, God is able to raise Moses up from his slumber and to bring Elijah to converse with Jesus from where ever he was, but in the case of John, he is shown conversing with an elder about those who are arrayed in white robes that have come out of great tribulation which is a future event. Perhaps this is why the book is called Revelation.
Quote Revelation 1
1:1
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
1:2
Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.God Bless
Hi 94,
Amazing isn't it.
John caught up in the spirit to see a vision of the future and one of the immortal participants in that symbolic preenactment is able to converse with him about it.
The ways of God are amazing.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 13 2007,13:35) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 11 2007,14:50) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 11 2007,14:18) Hi 94,
Scripture says
Mt 17
” 3And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. “Mk9
” 4And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.”Lk9
“29And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.30And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:
31Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.”
Moses and Elijah were as real as Jesus was.
They live ever in the Spirit of God.
I suspect they were woken from glorious slumber as the witch of Endor did with Samuel.
Hi Nick:I suppose that is so, God is able to raise Moses up from his slumber and to bring Elijah to converse with Jesus from where ever he was, but in the case of John, he is shown conversing with an elder about those who are arrayed in white robes that have come out of great tribulation which is a future event. Perhaps this is why the book is called Revelation.
Quote Revelation 1
1:1
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
1:2
Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.God Bless
Hi 94,
Amazing isn't it.
John caught up in the spirit to see a vision of the future and one of the immortal participants in that symbolic preenactment is able to converse with him about it.
The ways of God are amazing.
Hi Nick:No doubt that it is amazing. God has forseen all things from the beginning, and so, he can reveal to us things to come in the scriptures and also, in our personal lives through dreams and visions and prophecy.
God Bless
Hi David,
You say
“In the following scripture, Paul goes on to show that those persons adopted to be heavenly sons are referred to as “the things in the heavens.”
EPHESIANS 1:9-11
“he made known to us the sacred secret of his will. It is according to his good pleasure which he purposed in himself for an administration at the full limit of the appointed times, namely, TO GATHER ALL THINGS TOGETHER again in the Christ, THE THINGS IN THE HEAVENS and THE THINGS ON THE EARTH. [Yes,] in him, in union with whom we were also assigned as heirs,”
COLOSSIANS 1:20
“and through him to reconcile again to himself all [other] things by making peace through the blood [he shed] on the torture stake, no matter whether they are the things upon the earth OR the things in the heavens.”Paul also explains that this reconciliation involves two distinct groups of individuals, namely, “the things in the heavens” and “the things upon the earth.”
The first stage of God’s “administration” is the gathering together again of “the things in the heavens,” preparing the congregation of Kingdom heirs who are to live in the heavens under Jesus Christ as the spiritual Head. (Ro 8:16, 17; Eph 1:11; 1Pe 1:4)All things are to be united as one under Christ.
Those who are alive and in Christ are united with him now in the heavenly realm but actually are on earth while the dead in Christ sleep in his mansions.
There is no suggestion in scripture that some JW men will live and rule from heaven while a lesser breed does so on earth.The JWs dogmas are so dependant on fanciful logic.
Hi david,
You say
“PHILIPPIANS 3:14
“I am pursuing down toward the goal for THE PRIZE OF THE UPWARD CALL of God by means of Christ Jesus.” (Compare Ro 1:7; 8:30; 2 Tim 1:9; Jude 1:1)
HEBREWS 3:1
“Consequently, holy brothers, PARTAKERS OF THE HEAVENLY CALLING, consider the apostle and high priest whom we confess—Jesus.” (Compare Rom 8:30)
Doesn't this indicate that some will have “the prize of the upward call,” and be partakers of a heavenly calling? The dictionaries I checked indicated that a “calling” is:
1. impulse or desire to follow or do a particular job; a strong urge to follow a particular career or do a particular type of work.
2. a job, profession, occupation or vocation.
The Bible tells us that the “holy ones” would act as priests and judges and rule as kings with Christ. This is their calling. It is a heavenly “upward call.”These “holy ones” do not exercise kingly authority while on earth but must await their being united with Christ in the heavens.”
The call of God is from on high.
Christ returns to earth to rule from there with his brothers.I prefer not having duplicate discussions in multiple threads. I don't know why this thread even needs to exist, since I created the “do men ever go to heaven” thread a long time ago.
Please copy this question to that thread if you like.
Hi GM,
Where are the mansions of Christ?
Where are the dead men in heaven shown in the view John gets in Revelation?
There are ELDERS but these are not said to be named and there are only a few-or are they the Archangels?Sorry brother, to cause pain to you. I know those scriptures, I can understand that New Jerusalem is the place where the Mansions are and Jesus is preparing them for us to live in them. But the new jerusalem will come down from God to the new earth.
Revelation is a book of prophecy and most of the events will be taken place in future even the Eleders are not men(IMO) but some Angelic (priestly) leaders who serve God the Almighty. When I read the pattern of Priestly duties set by david for the Temple in Jerusalem there were also 24 priestly leaders are chosen which might be the resemblance of the Heavenly Temple.
I don't think any man can enter into heaven after death and before their resurrection.
Thanks and blessings
AdamHi GM,
An interesting point I think is that Jesus went back to heaven.
We will be similarly equipped with a new heavenly body that can go to heaven.
So it is possible I think that though our home will always be earth we will be able to visit heaven.
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