Daniel 9:27

[IM4Truth]

Daniel 9:27; mainstream Christianity is teaching, this verse applies to “Antichrist”, who suddenly will appear on the scene, is so brilliant that he comes up with a peace plan for the middle east, makes a covenant with the Jews and the Arabs for 7 years, which he brakes after only 3 and a 1/2 years. That then will be the signal for the “church” to be raptured, while the rest of the people have to go through the worst time of their life, the great tribulation.

If you believe that, then you have paid no attention to what the angel said in v. 24;

Dan. 9:24 “Seventy weeks are determined for thy people…”

This is all that is important for now.
The Jews were God's chosen and favored people, still are. At that time however, no gentile could share in Abraham's promises unless he converted to Judaism. The angel was prophesying that this would change, 70 weeks away. The weeks have to be counted as years, a year for a day, 70×7 years = 490 years. Counting would begin, when the command was given to rebuild Jerusalem and her walls, about 457 BC.

Dan. 9:25 “Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the streets shall be build again, and the walls, even in troubles times.”

It would take 7 weeks, or 49 years. to rebuild the City; another 62 weeks, a total of 69 weeks, until the Messiah the Prince, Jesus Christ. At his baptism, he was anointed with the holy spirit. Refer back to the rest of verse 24 in your bible.

His baptism was the beginning of his ministry, it was also the beginning of the seventieth week. That is why we read in;

Dan. 9:27 “And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblations to cease…”

Let's stop hear for now.
Jesus confirmed, preached the ” New Covenant “, to many for one week, 7 years, but was cut off in the midst of the week; his ministry lasted 3 and a 1/2 years. His death, his sacrifice, put an end to the “Old Covenant” sacrifices and oblations, offerings, caused them to cease. Even so the Jews continued to practice them until 70 AD, when their temple was destroyed.

Dan. 9:26 “…and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the City and the sanctuary…”

The prince of the people was the Roman General Titus.

The rest of the week, 3 and a 1/2 years, was carried out by the Apostles, whom Jesus had commanded;

Mat. 10:5 “These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samar'itans enter ye not.”
v. 6 “But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

The 70 weeks were a prophecy, showing when God would reveal himself and show favor to the Gentiles. God revealed himself to the Israelites through Moses, He would reveal himself to the Gentiles, the world, through Jesus. After the 70 weeks were up, God did in fact pour out his Holy Spirit on Cornelius, the first gentile, Acts 10:.

Acts 10:45 “And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.”

Now for the last part of verse 27;

Dan. 9:27 “…and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.”

He shall make it desolate; “He”, is a reference to Antichrist, shall make “it”, Christs sacrifice, desolate, destroy the meaning of, make “it” of none effect. The abomination that caused that, was the invention of the Catholic Mass. For those of you that don't know what a Mass is, let me explain. The Catholic Church teaches that Christs sacrifice on the cross was not enough, it only paid for the inherited sin of Adam. And our daily sins can only be forgiven by a Mass sacrifice. During this mass, the Church claims, Christ actually dies again and again, the bread and wine become actually the body and blood of Jesus Christ. I don't think there is nothing worse, then have God call something an abomination. Just as a reminder, hear is what the bible teaches;

Heb. 10:10 “By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”
Col. 2:13 “And you , being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses.”

This is not the only lie Antichrist is teaching, it says, “for the overspreading of abominations”, plural.
It does not matter how strong you believe a false doctrine, it want make it truth.

Bless you all

[lamontre]

Can you, kind of, summarize your point? This is all over the place. I don't exactly know where to begin to respond.

[IM4Truth]

Good morning Lamontre
My point is; Dan. 9:27 is not about Antichrist, it's all about Jesus Christ.

[942767]

HiIM4Truth:

You say:

Quote

It would take 7 weeks, or 49 years. to rebuild the City; another 62 weeks, a total of 69 weeks, until the Messiah the Prince, Jesus Christ. At his baptism, he was anointed with the holy spirit. Refer back to the rest of verse 24 in your bible. His baptism was the beginning of his ministry, it was also the beginning of the seventieth week. That is why we read in;

9:25
Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.  
9:26
AND AFTER THREESCORE AND TWO WEEKS SHALL MESSIAH BE CUT OFF, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

This appears to say that he was cut off at the end of second series of weeks, 62, rather than what you indicate that it was at this time that he was baptized and began his ministry and that it was the beginning of the 70th week.  Correct me if I am wrong.

God Bless

[lamontre]

Quote (IM4Truth @ June 10 2007,21:23)

Good morning Lamontre My point is; Dan. 9:27 is not about Antichrist, it's all about Jesus Christ.

Ah, I see.

I really have no reasoned response at the moment.

I'll get back to ya.

[IM4Truth]

Hi 942767

Try reading verse 25 this way, now notice, I am not changing the words, I only restructure the verse.

9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem, shall be seven weeks,even in troubles times, and threescore and two weeks unto the Messiah the Prince.

9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off…

It does not say at the end of the 62 weeks, it says “after” He was cut off after the 62 weeks, 3 and 1/2 years after.

Thank you for you responce

[lamontre]

I think 942767 is on to something. And the NIV makes it much clearer IMO;

Daniel 9:26-27 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society

26 After the sixty-two 'sevens,' the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed.
27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.”

This is obviously the same abomination is referred to by Jesus;

Mar 13:14  But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, let (him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judea flee to the mountains:

[942767]

Quote (IM4Truth @ June 12 2007,02:05)

Hi 942767 Try reading verse 25 this way, now notice, I am not changing the words, I only restructure the verse. 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem, shall be seven weeks,even in troubles times, and threescore and two weeks unto the Messiah the Prince. 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off… It does not say at the end of the 62 weeks, it says “after” He was cut off after the 62 weeks, 3 and 1/2 years after. Thank you for you responce

Hi Im4Truth:

I understand what you are saying, but it appears that you are stretching it a bit to fit your understanding.

The last verse reads:

Dan.9:27 He will make a strong covenant with leaders for one week [of years]. For half of the week he will put a stop to the sacrifice and the grain offering. On the wing of detestable things the desolator will come and continue until the already decreed destruction is poured out on the desolator.”

My understanding is that the the “He” refers to the prince that destroyed the temple-that is that same spirit.  And then it states: “On the wing of detestable things THE DESOLATER WILL COME and continue until the already destruction is poured out on the desolator”.  (This appears to refer to the Anti-Christ to me)

This appears also to agree with the following:

Dan.  12:11
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. (the abomination of desolation, Matt. 24:15) 
12:12
Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.  

God Bless

[IM4Truth]

My reply is to both of you, Lamontre and 942767

I'm reading from the “King James Version”, the Ryrie study bible; have been for over 20 years.
I have a NIV, a James Moffat, and several other versions. I personally find the King James the
most accurate and reliable of all.
What you quoted from the NIV, Lamontre, (I tried to bring up as a quote what you said, but
don't know how yet) anyway.
That to me appears as a total distortion of the truth. I'm not blaming you, mind you.
The same I would have to say to 942767, for his version of 9:27.
Let me just say this; you both are focusing only on v. 27. This verse is only a puzzle
of a greater picture. It is the last week, after which the Gentiles were given the
opportunity to have a part in the promises of Abraham. When Jesus died, he broke
down the barrier. He did away with the old covenant, the Law. Read my original
post again.
Thank you both, and God bless

[lamontre]

Well, I did ask you to clarify, and that was the verse you focussed on. I see now you have a “replacement” axe to grind? I share your lack of admiration for the NIV, but the KJV makes the same reference, just not in the exact same phrasing;

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Where else do you see the “abomination of desolation” in the OT??

This is something Jesus made reference to, and Matthew expected the readers to understand.

I think he was referring to 9:27.

And this verse….

Dan 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

….obviously refers back to 9:27.

If not, then what do you suggest?

[IM4Truth]

Hello Lamontre

Yes, you are absolutely, and so is 942767, who made mention of Dan.12:11. Jesus, in Mat. 24:15
even says, “the abomination spoken of by Daniel”.
Let me just summarize what I said in my topic. Also, there are two more points in v. 27, which I did
not get into before, but will do it now. I will also address Dan. 12:11+12.

I started by saying; what most preachers are saying Dan. 9:27 is all about. And I said, if you
believed that, you must have mist what it said in v. 24. Verse 24 is a prophecy, prophesying that
at the end of 70 weeks, something extra ordinary would happen. God would pour out his Spirit on
the Gentiles; Cornelius was the proof of that, Acts 10, and Peter confirmed it, Acts 10:45.

Therefore, Dan. 9:27 can not apply to our time, or any time in the future.

I have also explained what the abomination is; I did not go into details about this part of the
verse, which is point one;

v. 27 “…even until the consummation…”

This abominable thing, the mass sacrifice, will be practiced until the very end of all things, until
the consuming, the destruction of all of man's ways.
Point two;

v. 27 “…and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.”

Who are the desolate? Those that have bought into the doctrine of Antichrist.
What will be poured upon them?

Rev. 18:4 “And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, come out of hear my people,
that ye be not partakers of hear sins, and that ye receive not of hear plagues.”

Now too;

Dan. 12:11 “And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination
that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.”

Christs ongoing, never ending, never to be repeated sacrifice, was taken away and replaced with
the abominable thing, the mass sacrifice. That from the time it was set up, there would be 1290
days/years. So what does that tell us? This abominable thing is still being practiced today, but
we who don't belong to that system, know what the abomination is. But when did people first find out?
A German Monk, Martin Luther, exposed this abomination in 1517 AD, among other things.
Counting backwards 1290 years, brings you to the time it was set up, 227 AD. This is not just any ordinary time. It was the time when a pagan Lawyer, Tertullian, who had become a Christian, who
had written his doctrine of the Trinity, yes his doctrine, who was also very instrumental in explaining the Eucharist, the mass sacrifice, who just before he died had left the Church, had died.

Dan. 12:12 “Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five
thirty days.”

This is a reference to the resurrection time of the saints, showing how long their wait would be
in their graves. Starting with the reign of Antichrist in 565 AD, their wait would last 1335 days/years. And those that would come to the end of those days, live past them, would have to spent no time at all in the grave, their change would be instantly at death, in the twinkling of an eye

I realise that I gave you more then you ask for, but it is all connected.
Also remember what Jesus said about new wine, the old always taste better.
Thank you for showing interest, God bless.

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