Criticism of Muhammad

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (bodhitharta @ June 28 2010,03:06)

You keep insisting to know about Muhammad as if the Quran is written to celebrate or praise Muhammad and in that I can not comply Muhammad was a Man just like you and I there is no need to focus on him other than to know what was revealed to him which was a doctrine not of his own making but the Doctrine of God. Whether Muhammad did wrong in his life or not concerns me little because life is not based upon who never sinned it is based upon understanding the greatness of God which includes Mercy towards those who do sin and teaching others to have Mercy and Compassion to each other. It's the strangest phenomenon in Christianity, Christians are forever attempting to boast who is the best but if you love your neighbor as you love yourself there is no best except those who are best in belief.

Your making diversions.

i have one thing cleared so far. you have no concern about the lifestyle of Mohammed.

luke is not talked abotu so much, but his inspiriations was based on the testimony of others..

are you stating that an individuals testimony has nothing to do with Gods revelation?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 28 2010,09:09)

Quote (bodhitharta @ June 28 2010,03:06) You keep insisting to know about Muhammad as if the Quran is written to celebrate or praise Muhammad and in that I can not comply Muhammad was a Man just like you and I there is no need to focus on him other than to know what was revealed to him which was a doctrine not of his own making but the Doctrine of God. Whether Muhammad did wrong in his life or not concerns me little because life is not based upon who never sinned it is based upon understanding the greatness of God which includes Mercy towards those who do sin and teaching others to have Mercy and Compassion to each other. It's the strangest phenomenon in Christianity, Christians are forever attempting to boast who is the best but if you love your neighbor as you love yourself there is no best except those who are best in belief. Your making diversions. i have one thing cleared so far. you have no concern about the lifestyle of Mohammed. luke is not talked abotu so much, but his inspiriations was based on the testimony of others.. are you stating that an individuals testimony has nothing to do with Gods revelation?

I'm not sure what you mean here

Quote

are you stating that an individuals testimony has nothing to do with Gods revelation?

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (bodhitharta @ June 28 2010,03:15)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 28 2010,09:09) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 28 2010,03:06) You keep insisting to know about Muhammad as if the Quran is written to celebrate or praise Muhammad and in that I can not comply Muhammad was a Man just like you and I there is no need to focus on him other than to know what was revealed to him which was a doctrine not of his own making but the Doctrine of God. Whether Muhammad did wrong in his life or not concerns me little because life is not based upon who never sinned it is based upon understanding the greatness of God which includes Mercy towards those who do sin and teaching others to have Mercy and Compassion to each other. It's the strangest phenomenon in Christianity, Christians are forever attempting to boast who is the best but if you love your neighbor as you love yourself there is no best except those who are best in belief. Your making diversions. i have one thing cleared so far. you have no concern about the lifestyle of Mohammed. luke is not talked abotu so much, but his inspiriations was based on the testimony of others.. are you stating that an individuals testimony has nothing to do with Gods revelation? I'm not sure what you mean here Quote are you stating that an individuals testimony has nothing to do with Gods revelation?

are you stating that mohammed life style should be disrgarded

and still keep “the revelation”

[bodhitharta]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 28 2010,09:21)

Quote (bodhitharta @ June 28 2010,03:15) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 28 2010,09:09) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 28 2010,03:06) You keep insisting to know about Muhammad as if the Quran is written to celebrate or praise Muhammad and in that I can not comply Muhammad was a Man just like you and I there is no need to focus on him other than to know what was revealed to him which was a doctrine not of his own making but the Doctrine of God. Whether Muhammad did wrong in his life or not concerns me little because life is not based upon who never sinned it is based upon understanding the greatness of God which includes Mercy towards those who do sin and teaching others to have Mercy and Compassion to each other. It's the strangest phenomenon in Christianity, Christians are forever attempting to boast who is the best but if you love your neighbor as you love yourself there is no best except those who are best in belief. Your making diversions. i have one thing cleared so far. you have no concern about the lifestyle of Mohammed. luke is not talked abotu so much, but his inspiriations was based on the testimony of others.. are you stating that an individuals testimony has nothing to do with Gods revelation? I'm not sure what you mean here Quote are you stating that an individuals testimony has nothing to do with Gods revelation? are you stating that mohammed life style should be disrgarded and still keep “the revelation”

Actually I am saying speculating about his lifestyle should be disregarded and the reason is simple.

You can find websites and or books that put a negative spin on Muhammad's life and I can find an equal number and in-fact many more websites or books say nothing but the best things about Muhammad's lifestyle

So if we stick to what's written in the Quran there is no dispute since The Quran itself is the complete guide to Islam.

Now from a debate perspective you must admit that I have just won or you would have to narrow down criticism of Muhammad based only on what is in the Quran

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (bodhitharta @ June 28 2010,03:30)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 28 2010,09:21) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 28 2010,03:15) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 28 2010,09:09) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 28 2010,03:06) You keep insisting to know about Muhammad as if the Quran is written to celebrate or praise Muhammad and in that I can not comply Muhammad was a Man just like you and I there is no need to focus on him other than to know what was revealed to him which was a doctrine not of his own making but the Doctrine of God. Whether Muhammad did wrong in his life or not concerns me little because life is not based upon who never sinned it is based upon understanding the greatness of God which includes Mercy towards those who do sin and teaching others to have Mercy and Compassion to each other. It's the strangest phenomenon in Christianity, Christians are forever attempting to boast who is the best but if you love your neighbor as you love yourself there is no best except those who are best in belief. Your making diversions. i have one thing cleared so far. you have no concern about the lifestyle of Mohammed. luke is not talked abotu so much, but his inspiriations was based on the testimony of others.. are you stating that an individuals testimony has nothing to do with Gods revelation? I'm not sure what you mean here Quote are you stating that an individuals testimony has nothing to do with Gods revelation? are you stating that mohammed life style should be disrgarded and still keep “the revelation” Actually I am saying speculating about his lifestyle should be disregarded and the reason is simple. You can find websites and or books that put a negative spin on Muhammad's life and I can find an equal number and in-fact many more websites or books say nothing but the best things about Muhammad's lifestyle So if we stick to what's written in the Quran there is no dispute since The Quran itself is the complete guide to Islam. Now from a debate perspective you must admit that I have just won or you would have to narrow down criticism of Muhammad based only on what is in the Quran

So…
Your saying that his lifesyle doesnt matter.

again so what would be the best material to study mohammed?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 28 2010,11:54)

Quote (bodhitharta @ June 28 2010,03:30) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 28 2010,09:21) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 28 2010,03:15) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 28 2010,09:09) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 28 2010,03:06) You keep insisting to know about Muhammad as if the Quran is written to celebrate or praise Muhammad and in that I can not comply Muhammad was a Man just like you and I there is no need to focus on him other than to know what was revealed to him which was a doctrine not of his own making but the Doctrine of God. Whether Muhammad did wrong in his life or not concerns me little because life is not based upon who never sinned it is based upon understanding the greatness of God which includes Mercy towards those who do sin and teaching others to have Mercy and Compassion to each other. It's the strangest phenomenon in Christianity, Christians are forever attempting to boast who is the best but if you love your neighbor as you love yourself there is no best except those who are best in belief. Your making diversions. i have one thing cleared so far. you have no concern about the lifestyle of Mohammed. luke is not talked abotu so much, but his inspiriations was based on the testimony of others.. are you stating that an individuals testimony has nothing to do with Gods revelation? I'm not sure what you mean here Quote are you stating that an individuals testimony has nothing to do with Gods revelation? are you stating that mohammed life style should be disrgarded and still keep “the revelation” Actually I am saying speculating about his lifestyle should be disregarded and the reason is simple. You can find websites and or books that put a negative spin on Muhammad's life and I can find an equal number and in-fact many more websites or books say nothing but the best things about Muhammad's lifestyle So if we stick to what's written in the Quran there is no dispute since The Quran itself is the complete guide to Islam. Now from a debate perspective you must admit that I have just won or you would have to narrow down criticism of Muhammad based only on what is in the Quran So… Your saying that his lifesyle doesnt matter. again so what would be the best material to study mohammed?

You shouldn't study Muhammad nor do you need to you should study the Quran to know about Islam

What would be the best material to study John the Baptist or for that Matter Jesus Christ

[SimplyForgiven]

We still have alot of information about how John the Baptist lived.
You expect to believe a man “revelation” and disregard his testimony and lifestyle?
The leader of the islam faith?

belive what he says but ignore what he does…

thats strange.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 28 2010,12:11)

We still have alot of information about how John the Baptist lived. You expect to believe a man “revelation” and disregard his testimony and lifestyle? The leader of the islam faith? belive what he says but ignore what he does… thats strange.

The Leader of the Islam faith is God Almighty what needs to be known about Muhammad is in the Quran

muhammad is no more than an apostle: many Were the apostle that passed away before him. If he died or were slain, will ye then Turn back on your heels? If any did turn back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to Allah. but Allah (on the other hand) will swiftly reward those who (serve Him) with gratitude.
( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #144)

muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things.
( سورة الأحزاب , Al-Ahzab, Chapter #33, Verse #40)

But those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, and believe in the (Revelation) sent down to muhammad – for it is the Truth from their Lord,- He will remove from them their ills and improve their condition.
( سورة محمد , Muhammad, Chapter #47, Verse #2)

muhammad is the apostle of Allah. and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other. Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate themselves (in prayer), seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure. On their faces are their marks, (being) the traces of their prostration. This is their similitude in the Taurat; and their similitude in the Gospel is: like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the sowers with wonder and delight. As a result, it fills the Unbelievers with rage at them. Allah has promised those among them who believe and do righteous deeds forgiveness, and a great Reward.
( سورة الفتح , Al-Fath, Chapter #48, Verse #29)

“Those who follow the apostle, the unlettered prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the law and the Gospel;- for he commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure); He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes that are upon them. So it is those who believe in him, honour him, help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him,- it is they who will prosper.”
( سورة الأعراف , Al-Araf, Chapter #7, Verse #157)

day: “O men! I am sent unto you all, as the Messenger of Allah, to Whom belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth: there is no god but He: it is He That giveth both life and death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the Unlettered prophet, who believeth in Allah and His words: follow him that (so) ye may be guided.”
( سورة الأعراف , Al-Araf, Chapter #7, Verse #158)

O prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated (from Makka) with thee; and any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the prophet if the prophet wishes to wed her;- this only for thee, and not for the Believers (at large); We know what We have appointed for them as to their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess;- in order that there should be no difficulty for thee. And Allah is Oft- Forgiving, Most Merciful.
( سورة الأحزاب , Al-Ahzab, Chapter #33, Verse #50)

O ye who believe! Enter not the prophet's houses,- until leave is given you,- for a meal, (and then) not (so early as) to wait for its preparation: but when ye are invited, enter; and when ye have taken your meal, disperse, without seeking familiar talk. Such (behaviour) annoys the prophet: he is ashamed to dismiss you, but Allah is not ashamed (to tell you) the truth. And when ye ask (his ladies) for anything ye want, ask them from before a screen: that makes for greater purity for your hearts and for theirs. Nor is it right for you that ye should annoy Allah.s Messenger, or that ye should marry his widows after him at any time. Truly such a thing is in Allah.s sight an enormity.
( سورة الأحزاب , Al-Ahzab, Chapter #33, Verse #53)

Allah and His angels send blessings on the prophet: O ye that believe! Send ye blessings on him, and salute him with all respect.
( سورة الأحزاب , Al-Ahzab, Chapter #33, Verse #56)

O prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad): that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And Allah is Oft- Forgiving, Most Merciful.
( سورة الأحزاب , Al-Ahzab, Chapter #33, Verse #59)

We have not instructed the (prophet) in Poetry, nor is it meet for him: this is no less than a Message and a Qur'an making things clear:
( سورة يس , Ya Seen, Chapter #36, Verse #69)

O ye who believe! Raise not your voices above the voice of the prophet, nor speak aloud to him in talk, as ye may speak aloud to one another, lest your deeds become vain and ye perceive not.
( سورة الحجرات , Al-Hujraat, Chapter #49, Verse #2)

The (prophet's) (mind and) heart in no way falsified that which he saw.
( سورة النجم , An-Najm, Chapter #53, Verse #11)

O ye who believe! When ye hold secret counsel, do it not for iniquity and hostility, and disobedience to the prophet; but do it for righteousness and self- restraint; and fear Allah, to Whom ye shall be brought back.
( سورة المجادلة , Al-Mujadila, Chapter #58, Verse #9)

O prophet! When believing women come to thee to take the oath of fealty to thee, that they will not associate in worship any other thing whatever with Allah, that they will not steal, that they will not commit adultery (or fornication), that they will not kill their children, that they will not utter slander, intentionally forging falsehood, and that they will not disobey thee in any just matter,- then do thou receive their fealty, and pray to Allah for the forgiveness (of their sins): for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
( سورة الممتحنة , Al-Mumtahana, Chapter #60, Verse #12)

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (bodhitharta @ June 28 2010,08:56)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 28 2010,12:11) We still have alot of information about how John the Baptist lived. You expect to believe a man “revelation” and disregard his testimony and lifestyle? The leader of the islam faith? belive what he says but ignore what he does… thats strange. The Leader of the Islam faith is God Almighty what needs to be known about Muhammad is in the Quran muhammad is no more than an apostle: many Were the apostle that passed away before him. If he died or were slain, will ye then Turn back on your heels? If any did turn back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to Allah. but Allah (on the other hand) will swiftly reward those who (serve Him) with gratitude.   (  سورة آل عمران  , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #144) muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things.   (  سورة الأحزاب  , Al-Ahzab, Chapter #33, Verse #40) But those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, and believe in the (Revelation) sent down to muhammad – for it is the Truth from their Lord,- He will remove from them their ills and improve their condition.   (  سورة محمد  , Muhammad, Chapter #47, Verse #2) muhammad is the apostle of Allah. and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other. Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate themselves (in prayer), seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure. On their faces are their marks, (being) the traces of their prostration. This is their similitude in the Taurat; and their similitude in the Gospel is: like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the sowers with wonder and delight. As a result, it fills the Unbelievers with rage at them. Allah has promised those among them who believe and do righteous deeds forgiveness, and a great Reward.   (  سورة الفتح  , Al-Fath, Chapter #48, Verse #29) “Those who follow the apostle, the unlettered prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the law and the Gospel;- for he commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure); He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes that are upon them. So it is those who believe in him, honour him, help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him,- it is they who will prosper.”   (  سورة الأعراف  , Al-Araf, Chapter #7, Verse #157) day: “O men! I am sent unto you all, as the Messenger of Allah, to Whom belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth: there is no god but He: it is He That giveth both life and death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the Unlettered prophet, who believeth in Allah and His words: follow him that (so) ye may be guided.”   (  سورة الأعراف  , Al-Araf, Chapter #7, Verse #158) O prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated (from Makka) with thee; and any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the prophet if the prophet wishes to wed her;- this only for thee, and not for the Believers (at large); We know what We have appointed for them as to their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess;- in order that there should be no difficulty for thee. And Allah is Oft- Forgiving, Most Merciful.   (  سورة الأحزاب  , Al-Ahzab, Chapter #33, Verse #50) O ye who believe! Enter not the prophet's houses,- until leave is given you,- for a meal, (and then) not (so early as) to wait for its preparation: but when ye are invited, enter; and when ye have taken your meal, disperse, without seeking familiar talk. Such (behaviour) annoys the prophet: he is ashamed to dismiss you, but Allah is not ashamed (to tell you) the truth. And when ye ask (his ladies) for anything ye want, ask them from before a screen: that makes for greater purity for your hearts and for theirs. Nor is it right for you that ye should annoy Allah.s Messenger, or that ye should marry his widows after him at any time. Truly such a thing is in Allah.s sight an enormity.   (  سورة الأحزاب  , Al-Ahzab, Chapter #33, Verse #53) Allah and His angels send blessings on the prophet: O ye that believe! Send ye blessings on him, and salute him with all respect.   (  سورة الأحزاب  , Al-Ahzab, Chapter #33, Verse #56) O prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad): that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And Allah is Oft- Forgiving, Most Merciful.   (  سورة الأحزاب  , Al-Ahzab, Chapter #33, Verse #59) We have not instructed the (prophet) in Poetry, nor is it meet for him: this is no less than a Message and a Qur'an making things clear:   (  سورة يس  , Ya Seen, Chapter #36, Verse #69) O ye who believe! Raise not your voices above the voice of the prophet, nor speak aloud to him in talk, as ye may speak aloud to one another, lest your deeds become vain and ye perceive not.   (  سورة الحجرات  , Al-Hujraat, Chapter #49, Verse #2) The (prophet's) (mind and) heart in no way falsified that which he saw.   (  سورة النجم  , An-Najm, Chapter #53, Verse #11) O ye who believe! When ye hold secret counsel, do it not for iniquity and hostility, and disobedience to the prophet; but do it for righteousness and self- restraint; and fear Allah, to Whom ye shall be brought back.   (  سورة المجادلة  , Al-Mujadila, Chapter #58, Verse #9) O prophet! When believing women come to thee to take the oath of fealty to thee, that they will not associate in worship any other thing whatever with Allah, that they will not steal, that they will not commit adultery (or fornication), that they will not kill their children, that they will not utter slander, intentionally forging falsehood, and that they will not disobey thee in any just matter,- then do thou receive their fealty, and pray to Allah for the forgiveness (of their sins): for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.   (  سورة الممتحنة  , Al-Mumtahana, Chapter #60, Verse #12)

So answer me di
rectly,
do you not care abotu how Mohammed lived his life as he proclaimed allah?

[theodorej]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ July 11 2010,19:32)

Quote (bodhitharta @ June 28 2010,08:56) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 28 2010,12:11) We still have alot of information about how John the Baptist lived. You expect to believe a man “revelation” and disregard his testimony and lifestyle? The leader of the islam faith? belive what he says but ignore what he does… thats strange. The Leader of the Islam faith is God Almighty what needs to be known about Muhammad is in the Quran muhammad is no more than an apostle: many Were the apostle that passed away before him. If he died or were slain, will ye then Turn back on your heels? If any did turn back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to Allah. but Allah (on the other hand) will swiftly reward those who (serve Him) with gratitude.   (  سورة آل عمران  , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #144) muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things.   (  سورة الأحزاب  , Al-Ahzab, Chapter #33, Verse #40) But those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, and believe in the (Revelation) sent down to muhammad – for it is the Truth from their Lord,- He will remove from them their ills and improve their condition.   (  سورة محمد  , Muhammad, Chapter #47, Verse #2) muhammad is the apostle of Allah. and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other. Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate themselves (in prayer), seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure. On their faces are their marks, (being) the traces of their prostration. This is their similitude in the Taurat; and their similitude in the Gospel is: like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the sowers with wonder and delight. As a result, it fills the Unbelievers with rage at them. Allah has promised those among them who believe and do righteous deeds forgiveness, and a great Reward.   (  سورة الفتح  , Al-Fath, Chapter #48, Verse #29) “Those who follow the apostle, the unlettered prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the law and the Gospel;- for he commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure); He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes that are upon them. So it is those who believe in him, honour him, help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him,- it is they who will prosper.”   (  سورة الأعراف  , Al-Araf, Chapter #7, Verse #157) day: “O men! I am sent unto you all, as the Messenger of Allah, to Whom belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth: there is no god but He: it is He That giveth both life and death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the Unlettered prophet, who believeth in Allah and His words: follow him that (so) ye may be guided.”   (  سورة الأعراف  , Al-Araf, Chapter #7, Verse #158) O prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated (from Makka) with thee; and any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the prophet if the prophet wishes to wed her;- this only for thee, and not for the Believers (at large); We know what We have appointed for them as to their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess;- in order that there should be no difficulty for thee. And Allah is Oft- Forgiving, Most Merciful.   (  سورة الأحزاب  , Al-Ahzab, Chapter #33, Verse #50) O ye who believe! Enter not the prophet's houses,- until leave is given you,- for a meal, (and then) not (so early as) to wait for its preparation: but when ye are invited, enter; and when ye have taken your meal, disperse, without seeking familiar talk. Such (behaviour) annoys the prophet: he is ashamed to dismiss you, but Allah is not ashamed (to tell you) the truth. And when ye ask (his ladies) for anything ye want, ask them from before a screen: that makes for greater purity for your hearts and for theirs. Nor is it right for you that ye should annoy Allah.s Messenger, or that ye should marry his widows after him at any time. Truly such a thing is in Allah.s sight an enormity.   (  سورة الأحزاب  , Al-Ahzab, Chapter #33, Verse #53) Allah and His angels send blessings on the prophet: O ye that believe! Send ye blessings on him, and salute him with all respect.   (  سورة الأحزاب  , Al-Ahzab, Chapter #33, Verse #56) O prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad): that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And Allah is Oft- Forgiving, Most Merciful.   (  سورة الأحزاب  , Al-Ahzab, Chapter #33, Verse #59) We have not instructed the (prophet) in Poetry, nor is it meet for him: this is no less than a Message and a Qur'an making things clear:   (  سورة يس  , Ya Seen, Chapter #36, Verse #69) O ye who believe! Raise not your voices above the voice of the prophet, nor speak aloud to him in talk, as ye may speak aloud to one another, lest your deeds become vain and ye perceive not.   (  سورة الحجرات  , Al-Hujraat, Chapter #49, Verse #2) The (prophet's) (mind and) heart in no way falsified that which he saw.   (  سورة النجم  , An-Najm, Chapter #53, Verse #11) O ye who believe! When ye hold secret counsel, do it not for iniquity and hostility, and disobedience to the prophet; but do it for righteousness and self- restraint; and fear Allah, to Whom ye shall be brought back.   (  سورة المجادلة  , Al-Mujadila, Chapter #58, Verse #9) O prophet! When believing women come to thee to take the oath of fealty to thee, that they will not associate in worship any other thing whatever with Allah, that they will not steal, that they will not commit adultery (or fornication), that they will not kill their children, that they will not utter slander, intentionally forging falsehood, and that they will not disobey thee in any just matter,- then do thou receive their fealty, and pray to Allah for the forgiveness (of their sins): for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.   (  سورة الممتحنة  , Al-Mumtahana, Chapter #60, Verse #12) So answer me directly, do you not care abotu how Mohammed lived his life as he proclaimed allah?

Greetings Simply Forgiven…..You have touched on a very sensitive argument for Muslims that, trancends the teachings of Islam but exposes the character of the prophet and I must say Iam always curious to hear the response….It brings into question the validity of his teachings….There are parts of the Koran that have the same genetic footprint as the OT in the Bible…this is not to say that the Koran is an inspirational book by any means…As you have seen in recent years several writings have shown up that chalanges the sinless life of Jesus and casts his ministry as one of questionable validity….This is the work of those who are trying to rewrite history….character matters….

[Stu]

Quote (bodhitharta @ June 28 2010,09:06)

Muhammad was a Man just like you and I there is no need to focus on him other than to know what was revealed to him which was a doctrine not of his own making but the Doctrine of God.

I agree with your principle that you should consider the idea and not pay attention to the character of the human who invented or developed the idea, even if the inventor was a petulantly violent pedophile, as Mo appears to have been.

The problem for you in this case is that your man was illiterate. He couldn't verify that his scribes had recorded his hallucinations accurately or genuinely in writing.

With regards to what you write there is also the problem that the koran only claims to be the words of an angel, there is no hotline to the islamic Imaginary Sky Friend in the way that christianity claims to have seen an incarnation of the Imaginary Sky Friend in person.

It is reasonable to claim that actually the koran is a political manifesto dictated by a deluded individual who had political motives and a knack for threatening people with fictional divine horrors in order to get his own way, or at least as an alternative to threatening violence directly himself.

Stuart

[bodhitharta]

The fact is the Character of Muhammad, Jesus or Moses would have to be only the concern of God because it is God
that is choosing who he wants to choose. Now, all through the NT the people were questioning the character of Jesus
and he kept saying “this doctrine is not mine” Jesus also knew that his character didn't matter as he said about
John the baptist having perfect character and they did whatever they wanted with him.

We can all assume to be great judges of character but our judgements mean nothing it's our obedience to God that means everything

It's funny too because when we mention things about anyones character that we like we will make an excuse for. If I say Jesus lost his temper and whipped the people in the temple someone will say that is okay or when Jesus was disobedient to his parents and worried them greatly again that's not a problem or character flaw or when Jesus called the gentile woman a dog.

Moses killed a man before God chose him and killed many many more afterwards, his people questioned his character for marrying and egyptian women turns out that it wasn't very good to question the character of Moses since Moses had to petition God to spare marium

Muhammad killed people just like Moses did and regardless of Aisha's actual age at best it could be called questionable to those who find it a flaw in character

The problem is we are not the judge and the laws that are written explain what is sinfulness.

Homosexuality in the OT and NT = Death penalty, STU thinks this is wrong some of the rest of you may find it harsh
Adultery in the OT and NT= Death penalty in the Quran 40 lashes

Now for those who do not understand some things are judged differently at different times

David committed adultery with Bathsheba neither of them were killed or lashed but their first child died from that union

Lots daughters slept with their father and they were not punished

The point is Character is not based on what we like this day and time because the judgement of Character is not in our possession only the ways that God told us to live are in our possession.

For instance STU likes to call Muhammad a pedophile and so do many christians and to them that would be considered a horrible character flaw. However even if what they said was true and I don't believe it is but even if it was it is not listed in the Bible
what age someone should marry but only that they should marry. So two things are evident here

“Pedophiles” don't marry children and the other is there is no prohibition against marrying a child so you have people creating their own biblical laws not based on scripture.

Now STU will argue for the acceptance of Homosexuality and Adultery and look how many Homosexual Christians there are and how many ministers and pastors that get caught cheating on their wives.

So people have a tendency to make lawful what is not lawful and unlawful what is not unlawful

“You judge after the flesh, I judge no man”

Jesus Christ

[Stu]

BD

Quote

For instance STU likes to call Muhammad a pedophile and so do many christians and to them that would be considered a horrible character flaw. However even if what they said was true and I don't believe it is but even if it was it is not listed in the Bible what age someone should marry but only that they should marry. So two things are evident here “Pedophiles” don't marry children and the other is there is no prohibition against marrying a child so you have people creating their own biblical laws not based on scripture. Now STU will argue for the acceptance of Homosexuality and Adultery and look how many Homosexual Christians there are and how many ministers and pastors that get caught cheating on their wives. So people have a tendency to make lawful what is not lawful and unlawful what is not unlawful

Pedophiles have sex with children, which is what Mo did when Aisha was nine.

I live in a country in which expressing homosexuality is lawful, as do you. For people living in islamic countries very often the penalty for homosexual acts is a harsh imprisonment or death. In those cultures the hypocrisy of christians preaching against their own sexual orientation is replaced with violent suppression of homosexuality. Better to stay in the closet in Saudi Arabia, Mauritania, Iran, the UAE and Yemen. They have the death penalty for acts of love between consenting adults, for no other reason than their interpretation of the contents of the koran.

But I guess BD you would argue they are not real muslims.

That’s a lot of non-muslims that think of themselves as islamic.

Stuart

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Stu @ July 12 2010,09:23)

BD Quote For instance STU likes to call Muhammad a pedophile and so do many christians and to them that would be considered a horrible character flaw. However even if what they said was true and I don't believe it is but even if it was it is not listed in the Bible what age someone should marry but only that they should marry. So two things are evident here “Pedophiles” don't marry children and the other is there is no prohibition against marrying a child so you have people creating their own biblical laws not based on scripture. Now STU will argue for the acceptance of Homosexuality and Adultery and look how many Homosexual Christians there are and how many ministers and pastors that get caught cheating on their wives. So people have a tendency to make lawful what is not lawful and unlawful what is not unlawful Pedophiles have sex with children, which is what Mo did when Aisha was nine. I live in a country in which expressing homosexuality is lawful, as do you.  For people living in islamic countries very often the penalty for homosexual acts is a harsh imprisonment or death.  In those cultures the hypocrisy of christians preaching against their own sexual orientation is replaced with violent suppression of homosexuality.  Better to stay in the closet in Saudi Arabia, Mauritania, Iran, the UAE and Yemen.  They have the death penalty for acts of love between consenting adults, for no other reason than their interpretation of the contents of the koran.   But I guess BD you would argue they are not real muslims. That’s a lot of non-muslims that think of themselves as islamic. Stuart

Pedophiles do not “Marry” children nor do all pedophiles even have sex with children the problem with your argument is you have no valid case that Muhammad was even a pedophile in any way as he had wives older and younger than himself so would he also be a “gerophile” Muhammad obviously showed no special attraction to children or any particular age group so your argument lacks merit as pointing out a single example does not show an ongoing pattern.

As far as homosexuality is concerned it being lawful does not make it ethical or acceptable as in my state it just became illegal to have sex with animals does that mean to you that somehow before then it was ethical?

Spiritually there is obviously a reason why homosexuality is prohibited or for that matter beastiality is prohibited. From a gratification standpoint any stimulus to the genitals can give great feelings but all things are not allowed. According to your view a mother and son of consenting age should be allowed to have (protected) sex and if not tell me why not?

[SimplyForgiven]

Bod you didnt answer my question.
its recorded what these men did wrong.

Yet mohammeds life is not recoreded in the Quran.

Answer my question directly

[Ed J]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ July 12 2010,13:51)

Bod you didnt answer my question. its recorded what these men did wrong. Yet mohammeds life is not recoreded in the Quran. Answer my question directly

Hi SF,

He did answer your question; BD said: (in essence)
bodhitharta will blindly follow Mohammad's teachings
in the 'book of fraud'=114 no matter how barbarous and
outright ungodly his actions were! (Gal.1:7-9 / 2Cor.11:14-15)

Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[bodhitharta]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ July 12 2010,13:51)

Bod you didnt answer my question. its recorded what these men did wrong. Yet mohammeds life is not recoreded in the Quran. Answer my question directly

Quote

So answer me directly, do you not care abotu how Mohammed lived his life as he proclaimed allah?

No, I don't care and neither does Jesus

Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
John 8:14-16

Is this direct enough for you?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ July 12 2010,14:11)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ July 12 2010,13:51) Bod you didnt answer my question. its recorded what these men did wrong. Yet mohammeds life is not recoreded in the Quran. Answer my question directly Hi SF, He did answer your question; BD said: (in essence) bodhitharta will blindly follow Mohammad's teachings in the 'book of fraud'=114 no matter how barbarous and outright ungodly his actions were! (Gal.1:7-9 / 2Cor.11:14-15) Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17) יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

You hypocrite,

Tell me what did Muhammad do that was barborous that Moses did not do?

ED is Lucifer=666 in english gematria

[TimothyVI]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 12 2010,15:55)

Tell me what did Muhammad do that was barborous that Moses did not do?

Actually, I was wondering the same thing.

Tim

[theodorej]

Quote (TimothyVI @ July 12 2010,21:05)

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 12 2010,15:55) Tell me what did Muhammad do that was barborous that Moses did not do? Actually, I was wondering the same thing. Tim

Greetings B…..The actions of a man is indicative of his character ( definition ) Character is…knowing right from wrong and choosing to do what is right

[Author]

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