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Bod,
Trust me when i say they do not believe in the Trinity.
Its posted on their site within their many articles.Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 21 2010,13:06) Bod,
Trust me when i say they do not believe in the Trinity.
Its posted on their site within their many articles.
I understood what you said but my point was believing that God is Jesus is indirectly believing in either a Binity or a Trinity, nonetheless it is not Believing in ONE GOD. Unless you believe God prays to HIMSELF about HIMSELF and asks why he forsakes HIMSELF.Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 21 2010,07:11) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 21 2010,13:06) Bod,
Trust me when i say they do not believe in the Trinity.
Its posted on their site within their many articles.
I understood what you said but my point was believing that God is Jesus is indirectly believing in either a Binity or a Trinity, nonetheless it is not Believing in ONE GOD. Unless you believe God prays to HIMSELF about HIMSELF and asks why he forsakes HIMSELF.
I know,
But there is alot more to it than just that Bod,
Check out their article and you will see what i mean.Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 21 2010,13:14) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 21 2010,07:11) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 21 2010,13:06) Bod,
Trust me when i say they do not believe in the Trinity.
Its posted on their site within their many articles.
I understood what you said but my point was believing that God is Jesus is indirectly believing in either a Binity or a Trinity, nonetheless it is not Believing in ONE GOD. Unless you believe God prays to HIMSELF about HIMSELF and asks why he forsakes HIMSELF.
I know,
But there is alot more to it than just that Bod,
Check out their article and you will see what i mean.
Which article would that be?From that article
“The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not forms of God, each of them is God.”
“Father, Son, and Holy Spirit” are titles of God, just as a man can be a father, son, brother, or husband. He is still one man, not several. So God is one. Who would dare limit Him in time, dimension, or appearance? And was not His appearing as the Son a form of God? The Scriptures say so:
“Although He was in the form of God and equal with God, He did not take advantage of this equality” (Philippians 2:6 GW).
And again, speaking of Christ: “Who being the shining splendor of His [God’s] glory, and the express image of His essence, and upholding all things by the word of His power, through Himself cleansing of our sins, He sat down on the right of the Majesty on high” (Hebrews 1:3 MKJV).Now this clearly shows a misunderstanding while on one hand the article says that Jesus was the image of God and that Jesus was “equal” to God the writer of the article does not understand that the word “EQUAL” disqualifies any and every context of being THE SAME and also an Image no matter how close to accurate is never the original
Bod, you write:
Quote I invite you to a debate you say that Jesus is God and is part of a trinity and I will be willing to debate that with you if you are willing I have prepared the debate in the debate section. I haven’t forgotten that we already have a debate going, and it’s your turn to answer. Is trying to start a new debate your subtle way of conceding that you have no answers? If so, our debate is already over. If not, you can get busy answering what I have already posted.
Quote (PaulCohen @ Oct. 21 2010,10:58) Quote Hi Bod, Paul here, the one who wrote the paper Dennison quoted from to start off this thread. I have replied to your comments, below: This is an extremely long an unclear objection to what I stated but for the sake of not allowing you some sort of ego boost I will dredge through it.
Quote Quote from our paper, “Who Is That Prophet? Part 1”: “1) Muhammad was not from among the brethren of Israel.” Bod: “‘And he (Ishmael) shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.’ (Genesis 16:12)
“‘And he (Ishmael) died in the presence of all his brethren.’ (Genesis 25:18)
“The children of Isaac are the brethren of the Ishmaelites. Likewise, Muhammad is from among the brethren of the Israelites, because he was a descendant of Ishmael the son of Abraham.”
Me: That’s not what the Scripture I quoted says (Romans 9:7). Muhammad was not a Jew, according to God’s definition, either in the flesh or the spirit.
Faulty point because Abraham was not a Jew either
Quote As for Ishmael dwelling in the presence of his brethren, those with whom he dwelt weren’t the brothers of Isaac and his son, Israel. Neither did Ishmael live in their presence. He was sent away and became another people, as God said to Abraham: “And as for Ishmael, I have heard you. Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly. He shall father twelve chiefs, and I will make him a great nation. But I will establish My covenant with Isaac, whom Sarah shall bear to you at this set time in the next year” (Genesis 17:20-21 MKJV).
False! Isaac and Ishmael buried Abraham together
His sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah near Mamre, in the field of Ephron son of Zohar the Hittite,
Genesis 25:8-10I understand that you may not know some of these things but be patient
Quote Quote from our paper: “2) Muhammad did no signs and miracles, while Moses did many.” Bod: “For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Matthew 24:23-25”
Me: So what? Just because there are the false that do great signs, doesn’t mean there aren’t the true who do great miracles, which you seem to be implying.
God established Moses in the sight of Israel through many miraculous works, whereas Muhammad had none. And this is just one of many fundamental and crucial differences between Moses and Muhammad, as listed in the article.
Moses and Muhammad both had Human parents both were at one time orphans, both were warriors and brought law, neither of them were called the son of God or the Messiah. Jesus is Unique and was a Spirit that procceded from God and HIS word. Moses was much more like Muhammad than Jesus
Quote Quote from our paper: “3) Muhammad allegedly heard from the angel Gabriel, and by his own admission, did not claim to speak face to face with God as Moses had ('whom the LORD knew face to face').” Bod: “This Moses whom they refused, saying, Who made thee a ruler and a judge? the same did God send to be a ruler and a deliverer by the hand of the angel which appeared to him in the bush.
Acts 7:34-36“And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush.
Acts 7:29-31″Me: What is your point? By Whose hand do you think Moses delivered the children of Israel? It was by God’s hand:
Angels are the messengers of God and if you believe thet Bible No man has seen God at anytime but then again the Bible does claim that some have seen God so did they or didn't they? The bible is not clear on the issue.
Quote Our point is that not only did Muhammad not hear from God or speak with Him face to face, he also never heard from the angel Gabriel. The angel Gabriel told Mary the following: “He shall be great and shall be called the Son of the Highest” (Luke 1:32 MKJV).
“And the angel answered and said to her, The Holy Spirit shall come on you, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow you. Therefore also that Holy One which will be born of you shall be called Son of God” (Luke 1:35 MKJV).
Jesus is “called” the son of God, notice the Angel did not say that Jesus IS the son of God that's because being called the son of God has nothing to do with procreation and everything to do with being Pious, you simply don't understand the usage of language in the day all of Israel is called the Son of God:
And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
Exodus 4:21-23Now if Jesus is the only begotten son and Israel is the firstborn then you have some explaining to do unless Jesus is All of Israel. I will explain these things to you if you will listen
Quote But the entity that Muhammad heard from told him that God has no Son. From the Koran: This should not even be a problem for you because you don't believe that God has a son either you believe that God took up flesh, you believe that the Father is the Son and therefor if they are the same individul in your eyes you deny both the Father and the Son and that is actually what you do believe.
You say that Christ is God and that is Anti-Christ
Quote The LORD (not “Allah”) is only one God. There are not three. And the LORD came in the flesh, as a human being, known as the Messiah, the Lord Jesus Christ, Who was crucified and raised His Own body from the dead, proving He was God. See, I just told you that you believe that. You say that God came as a Human being and the scriptures say you are in complete error.
I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city.
Hosea 11:8-10Jesus says ALL power was GIVEN to him, who gives power to God? You are in complete error.
If I were hung
ry, I would not tell thee: for the world is mine, and the fulness thereof.
Psalm 50:11-13But regarding Jesus it says:
Mark 11:12-14 (King James Version)
12And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry:
13And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet.
14And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it.Why did Jesus if he was/is God did not know that the figs were not in season and why did he curse the tree? If he was God the tree was already being obedient to the laws he set up. But, if he was not God it would make sense. Jesus is not God you are in complete error.
Quote Therefore, if Muhammad heard from anything at all, then he heard from a devil, and not the angel Gabriel, who wouldn’t contradict his own words, lying against the truth and the One he serves. The devil has never denied that Jesus was called the son of God so you are alreay incorrect and Gabriel did not say that Jesus WAS the son of God but that HE WILL BE CALLED THE SON OF GOD. To say someone loves you like a son does not mean they had sex with your mother. If Jesus is the Son of God then Mary is the Mother of God, but you don't like that but that is the way it would be if it were true. Jesus is the son of Mary whom God blessed with a Miracle. God spoke Jesus into existence HE simply said “BE” and he was and he was the only person ever created with the Word of God for Adam was created from the earth and God breathed the breath of Life into him But Jesus was created by the Word of God. God said “BE” and Jesus was BE-Gotten and that WORD of GOD became flesh.
Quote Quote from our paper: “4) Surer yet are the fruits of Muhammad’s 'prophetic' office” Bod: “Eliminated Idol worship and Instilled the Monotheistic belief in ONE GOD”
Me: “You believe that there is one God, you do well; even the demons believe and tremble” (James 2:19 MKJV).
Belief in the one true God is not enough, but you have not even begun to do well, because you believe in an imposter, Allah, following his false prophet.
what you are saying is silly because there is NO god but GOD if you think ALLAH is a different God it is simply because you lack knowledge, which is okay you don't have to know everything at once. Christians and Pagans will call anything God and that's because they have a polytheistic Consciousness if you had a monotheistic consciousness you would find all this as amusing as I do, you will even call Satan “god of this world” How SILLY
Quote Worshipping a false god, the Muslims have many idols. Like all unregenerate men without Christ, they worship anything but God. For starters, they worship a man who is not God. False it is forbidden to worship anything but ALLAH in Islam and no one worshipd Muhammad:
muhammad is no more than an apostle: many Were the apostle that passed away before him. If he died or were slain, will ye then Turn back on your heels? If any did turn back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to Allah. but Allah (on the other hand) will swiftly reward those who (serve Him) with gratitude.
( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #144)So you were completely misguided there
Quote They worship “Allah,” a devil or devilish invention of that man. They worship a stone in Mecca. They worship Mecca. They worship their religion and a form of worship. They worship hatred and victimhood. They worship the carnal appetites as their reward in heaven. They worship death, the vehicle to their supposed reward. Above all, they worship all these things because they worship themselves, which is at the heart of all idolatry. For this reason, you are a great idolater and antiChrist, because you have replaced Christ as your lord and savior. WOW! You really are without knowledge, so I won't say that you are lying because that would mean you are aware of the truth and not speaking it but the fact is you are completely unaware of the truth, to Worship anything other than God including Christ would be a sin.
You worship Christ which is the image of a MAN
And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Romans 1:22-24For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Romans 8:2-4Are you saying that God can take on SIN, that God can BEAR sin? You are FAR from the truth. Do you realize you are calling God CURSED or A CURSE
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Galatians 3:12-14Now learn:
And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, Whosoever curseth his God shall bear his sin.
Leviticus 24:14-16Have you know sense?
Quote Quote from our paper: “5) Muhammad did not come pronouncing the only Name given to men whereby they must be saved, which is Jesus Christ and not Allah.” Bod: “Behold! the angels said: O Mary! allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to allah.
( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #45)“O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of allah aught but the truth. christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in allah and His apostles. Say not “Trinity” : desist: it will be better for you: for allah is one allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is allah as a Disposer of affairs.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #171)“In blasphemy indeed are those that say that allah is christ the son of Mary. Say: Who then hath the least power against allah, if His will were to destroy christ the son of Mary, his mother, and all every – one that is on the earth? For to allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between. He createth what He pleaseth. For allah hath power over all things.
( سورة المائدة , Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #17)”Me: These Koranic verses only prove our point. The Koran denies Jesus Christ is God, by which it proves that “Allah” is not God, but a devil impe
rsonating God.Yes Jesus Christ is not God and I will repent today if you show me a single verse where Jesus himself says(not implies) “I am God, Worship Me”
This is in print and has no expiration so scour the entire contents of the bible and use every translation but you will never find it EVER because it is not true. But what the scriptures do say is:
I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
John 17:3-5Now I ask you, who is Jesus talking about glorifying and who gave Jesus work to do?
Have you no sense!? receive admonishment
Quote Quote from our paper: “6) When the prophet like Moses comes, it will be at the return of Christ to restore all things, as prophesied by Peter on the day the disciples received the Spirit of Christ (Pentecost):” Bod: “'And this is the witness of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who are you? And he confessed and did not deny, but confessed, I am not the Christ. And they asked him, What then? Are you Elijah? And he says, I am not. Are you that prophet? And he answered, No'
(John 1:19-21 MKJV).“Who is that Prophet?”
Me: Right. John wasn’t that prophet. But he was a prophet of God, whereas Muhammad was not. Read “Who is that Prophet? Part 2” http://thepathoftruth.com/teachings/thatprophet2.htm
Bod: “————–
“Peace and blessings upon Jesus The Christ forever, He puts no partners with God and worships Our Father as The Only True God.”Me: Jesus Christ is the Creator, the Father, the One Who was with Israel in the wilderness:
“And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ” (1 Corinthians 10:4 KJV)
Who is from before Abraham:
“Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham came into being, I AM!” (John 8:58 MKJV)
This was in the foreknowledge of God:
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
Jeremiah 1:4-6No difference.
Quote And Whom all men will worship:
Philippians 2:5-11 MKJV
(5) For let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,
(6) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God,
(7) but made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Himself the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.
(8) And being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
(9) Therefore God has highly exalted Him, and has given Him a Name which is above every name,
(10) that at the Name of Jesus every knee should bow, of heavenly ones, and of earthly ones, and of ones under the earth;
(11) and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.Paul can something that is equal to something else be that same thing? OF COURSE NOT for something to EQUAL there must be two things and not one. Christ is not God just like man being made in the image of God did not make man God.
Also why do you seem to not notice that it says “TO THE GLORY OF THE FATHER” and not to the Glory of Christ. Receive Admonishment you and Victor
If you want to expose false teaching expose yourself first and then expose others
Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 22 2010,01:42) To Paul Cohen, the site that SimplyForgiven gave above, I like it, from what iv read so far.
Bascially their is a faulty logic behind trinity from both ends.
You see why i dont call my self a Trinitarian?Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 22 2010,18:00) Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 22 2010,01:42) To Paul Cohen, the site that SimplyForgiven gave above, I like it, from what iv read so far.
Bascially their is a faulty logic behind trinity from both ends.
You see why i dont call my self a Trinitarian?
So is Jesus “GOD” or not? Is he the Father and the Son?Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 22 2010,08:48) God said “BE” and Jesus was BE-Gotten and that WORD of GOD became flesh.
To All,Is BD BEing deceitful? How could he believe
what's in this quote, yet continually denying Jesus' words?Mark 8:31 And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things,
and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes,
and be killed, and after three days rise again.“Gospel”(74) = “Jesus”(74)
Gal.1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him(YHVH) (John 3:16)
that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: (2Cor.11:4)'Book of fraud'=114
'a moongod bible'=1142Corinthins 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we
have not preached, or ye receive allah) another spirit, which ye
have not received, or another (antichrist) gospel, which
ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him..
.
Heb.10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy,
who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant,
wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 22 2010,08:48) Christians and Pagans will call anything God and that's because they have a polytheistic Consciousness if you had a monotheistic consciousness you would find all this as amusing as I do, you will even call Satan “god of this world” How SILLY You worship Christ which is the image of a MAN
.
2Cor.4:4 In whom ‘the god of this world’ hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,
lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them..
Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 23 2010,08:41) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 22 2010,08:48) God said “BE” and Jesus was BE-Gotten and that WORD of GOD became flesh.
To All,Is BD BEing deceitful? How could he believe
what's in this quote, yet continually denying Jesus' words?Mark 8:31 And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things,
and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes,
and be killed, and after three days rise again.“Gospel”(74) = “Jesus”(74)
Gal.1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him(YHVH) (John 3:16)
that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: (2Cor.11:4)'Book of fraud'=114
'a moongod bible'=1142Corinthins 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we
have not preached, or ye receive allah) another spirit, which ye
have not received, or another (antichrist) gospel, which
ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him..
What's a moongod?Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 23 2010,08:54) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 22 2010,08:48) Christians and Pagans will call anything God and that's because they have a polytheistic Consciousness if you had a monotheistic consciousness you would find all this as amusing as I do, you will even call Satan “god of this world” How SILLY You worship Christ which is the image of a MAN
.
2Cor.4:4 In whom ‘the god of this world’ hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,
lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them..
So the God of this world is not the same God that Christ is in the image of?Why does God so love this world if HE is not it's God?
Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 23 2010,09:22) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 23 2010,08:41) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 22 2010,08:48) God said “BE” and Jesus was BE-Gotten and that WORD of GOD became flesh.
To All,Is BD BEing deceitful? How could he believe
what's in this quote, yet continually denying Jesus' words?Mark 8:31 And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things,
and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes,
and be killed, and after three days rise again.“Gospel”(74) = “Jesus”(74)
Gal.1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him(YHVH) (John 3:16)
that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: (2Cor.11:4)'Book of fraud'=114
'a moongod bible'=1142Corinthins 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we
have not preached, or ye receive allah) another spirit, which ye
have not received, or another (antichrist) gospel, which
ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him..
What's a moongod?Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 23 2010,14:18)
What is a moon God?. Go to Link at bottom left of this Post!
Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 01 2010,14:10)
Sura #6 77 When he saw the moon rising in splendour, he said: “This is my Lord.”
6 + 77 = 83
moongod (83) = lord allah (83) (Rev.13:1) (Click Here)
1John 2:22 …He (allah) is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.Quote (bodhitharta @ Mar. 09 2010,13:51)
Allah Mind=74
Satan's(74) name is Lucifer(74)
74 + 74 + 74 = 222And I saw them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image,
and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass,
having the harps of God. And they sing the song of Moses The Servant of GOD.Click Here <– Last Post on Page
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