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Wondering why you bumped this up?
I just did a study on the covenants. I went from the beginning to Revelations. Now you all probably know that I am a Torah keeper, meaning I keep the commands.Not only do I see and will verify the extreme importance of the Torah, ALSO I believe and understand Messiah my Teacher, the prophetic fullfillment, the Son of the living Elohim.
Form this “unbiased” not Jewish, not Christian, point of view, I can say with all the authority of Yahweh that His covenant has not been broken. The point of breaking is on the part of the individual believers ever since day one. Those whom whored after other god-images broke the bond between the God of Israel and themself.
But the GOOD NEWS is that there has always been a remnant. Those who guard His Word, and believe in future Kingship of Messiah Y'shua. If not for this remant, there would be no covenant, no, the earth would have been destroyed for all the evil we humans have done and continue to do.
This remnant is the hope of the promise of the covenanted Bride. She is pure in her thoughts, her works and her deeds. She is a virgin who does not whore after god-men, after stars, after fishes in the sea, after money, etc. To her, Yahweh is numero-Uno!!! Her thoughts all day long are what she must do to please her husband, and yes He is coming for her.
Her name is Israel, which is perfectly depicted as Y'shua speaks to the seven churches in Revelations as “THOSE WHO OVERCOME!” Because the Hebrew word Israel comes from striving with men and with El and overcoming! Note the “with” and that it dosen't mean against El.
What you do not understand Laurel is that we are under the Blood of Jesus
Luke 22:20 Likewise He took the cup after supper, saying :” This cup is the New Covenant in My Blood which is shed for you. We are calling Him that because that is what the Bible says, if you want to call Him something else, that is up to you. But I and others too, call Him Jesus Christ. That You come and throw your weight around and judge us, is so uncalled for and I find it wrong to do. All was peaceful we debated, but never called each others names how you do. Good -Bye Laurel I for one will not debate with you further.
IreneI would like to bring this up again, I feel like there is a lot of good stuff here.
Peace and Love Irene
to all I have been wondering for some time now, if Ken could be right with cutting the Law right. I know what Paul said that it doesnt matter which day we keep holy, my Husband says that we should keep every day to the Lord. Or should we set one day completely aside for God, and do nothing but honor and praise Him on that day? Since we are under His Blood every day holy? Jesus did magnify the law and fulfill it, so we too should walk in all holiness. Sin is not imputed to us. But if we do sin we have a Mediator Christ and are able to go directly to the Throne of God and ask for forgiveness.
Peace and Love Irene
Quote (Cindy @ Jan. 23 2009,01:52) to all I have been wondering for some time now, if Ken could be right with cutting the Law right. I know what Paul said that it doesnt matter which day we keep holy, my Husband says that we should keep every day to the Lord. Or should we set one day completely aside for God, and do nothing but honor and praise Him on that day? Since we are under His Blood every day is holy? Jesus did magnify the law and fulfilled it, so we too should walk in all holiness. Sin is not imputed to us. But if we do sin we have a Mediator Christ and are able to go directly to the Throne of God and ask for forgiveness. Peace and Love Irene
I added something to it, I miss my editing right.Hi Irene,
Heb4
15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.16Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
The forgiven can be brave and communicate with God in prayer in the same way as the High Priest did when he entered the Holy Place
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 23 2009,07:04) Hi Irene,
Heb4
15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.16Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
The forgiven can be brave and communicate with God in prayer in the same way as the High Priest did when he entered the Holy Place
Yes, Nick that is very much true and we are under grace and sin is not imputed to us, what a merciful God we have. I know all of that. Keeping every day holy to the Lord God Almighty, how can you do that? To set one whole day away for God and do absolutely nothing physical, everything spiritual. I walk with God from this day on, now 24 years long. I love God and I cant wait till I, if I should be that lucky, be with the Lord. Forever and ever. AmenPeace and Love Irene
Hi Cindy.
…”if I should be so lucky”. You definately will be there, you're humble, and don't exalt yourself. “you shall know the tree by its fruit”. This means that it shows by your actions, that you are blessed with the holy spitit of God. You are that “tree”, your good works are the “fruit”. We all recognise it when we see your “good works”. It is God working in us that changes us, not our actions, “lest we should boast”. “His (God) achievement are we”, we have no part in our salvation. (Eph.2:8-10) …8 For in grace, through faith, are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present,
9 not of works, lest anyone should be boasting.
10 For His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them.God Bless, Jerry.
Quote (chosenone @ Jan. 24 2009,10:51) Hi Cindy.
…”if I should be so lucky”. You definitely will be there, you're humble, and don't exalt yourself. “you shall know the tree by its fruit”. This means that it shows by your actions, that you are blessed with the holy spirit of God. You are that “tree”, your good works are the “fruit”. We all recognise it when we see your “good works”. It is God working in us that changes us, not our actions, “lest we should boast”. “His (God) achievement are we”, we have no part in our salvation. (Eph.2:8-10) …8 For in grace, through faith, are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present,
9 not of works, lest anyone should be boasting.
10 For His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them.God Bless, Jerry.
Yes indeed, I believe in our Savior Jesus Christ and I do know that we are under grace, and by Faith in Christ Jesus it is a free gift from God so nobody can boast. I know, but waiting on the Lord, to have patience, endurance, long-suffering. Through all of these we will grow in grace and knowledge of God. Some days are filled with the Holy Spirit and other days, even tho God's Holy Spirit is always in us, we feel far away. One thing I was taught by God the first week after Baptism, ask God to show me my sins,WAM,WAM,WAM, He will show you. Ask and you be given………………Peace and Love Irene
The difference between the old and new covenant is not that God has changed His mind and not longer requires you to be righteous as he is righteous. In both the old covenant and the new covenant the righteous live by faith. In the old covenant man was expected to fulfill the law by human effort and God known this was not possible allowed for man's hardened heart and compromised on some issues like divorce as well as allowing sacrifices of animals and grain for one's sins. In addition there were cleansing rituals that were a symbol of things to come.
We whom enter the new covenant have something that those in the old covenant merely yearned for and that is the Holy that is born in us when we are immersed in water in the name of Jesus and in faith. If we choose to live in that Spirit we will stop sinning for the Spirit of Christ does not sin despite being tempted. This may not come immediately but with perseverance and striving we will mature in our faith.
Some say God altered the New Covenant when the City of Jerusalem was sacked in 70AD and the Temple destroyed but scripture does not mention it but does say that when the sacrifice is abolished then God's people will be handed over to the beast for a long time. That time does not seem to be over yet.
Daniel 8:11-14 reads:
Quote It set itself up to be as great as the Prince of the host; it took away the daily sacrifice from him, and the place of his sanctuary was brought low. Because of rebellion, the host of the saints and the daily sacrifice were given over to it. It prospered in everything it did, and truth was thrown to the ground. Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, “How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled—the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, and the surrender of the sanctuary and of the host that will be trampled underfoot?”He said to me, “It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated.”
God's punishment to his people lasted until 1948 when Israel became a Nation again. Romans also teaches us that Israel will be grafted in again. When Christ returns His people will finally be taught the truth nothing but the truth. The Truth will cover the earth like water covers the sea. In the end Jesus will give the Kingdom back to the Father , so God can be all in all.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (Nick Hassan @ July 17 2007,10:44) Hi and thanks IM4,
Good work.
Of course to be partakers of the new covenant you must come to Jesus to be reborn from above.
The blood of the sacrificial lamb must wash us inwardly, cleansed with the forgiveness of God.
We need the three testaments in heaven, as Jesus had.1Jn 5
“6This is he who came by water and blood–Jesus Christ; not by the water only but by the water and the blood. And the Spirit is the one who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 7For there are three that testify: 8the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree.”
will you find that blood in a pagen fertility custom called Easter?NO!
Come out of Babylon!
Hi L,
Heb9
11But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;12Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
13For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Laurel,
You are being legalistic. I can give the same name to two different holidays and they can be completely different even if they are also on the same day of the year. I know of no one who currently celebrates Easter as a fertility holiday though I am sure that some will take your suggestion seriously and do so. There may be a few that do so now but that is their choice just like it is your choice to be legalistic. My warning is to both you and them is repent or you will perish.
God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that soever believed, believed in Him, would not perish, would not perish, but have everlasting life. God not send His Son into the world to condemn that world, but that through Him we will be saved.
By Faith in Christ Jesus it is a free gift from God, so that no one should boast. At Baptism we have received the Holy Spirit, repent and you will be born from above, by water and the Spirit of God. Only that way all must go in order to receive life everlasting. It is nothing that we can do, it is our choice to receive.
Peace and Love IreneI moved this conversation from the thread on baptism since this seems a more appropriate thread.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote The Law was until John
Your interpretation of Luke 16:16 seems to be incorrect as it is not saying the new covenant was established by John but rather it was until John and that afterwards people were forcing themselves into the kingdom of heaven. He could not have been speaking about the new covenant since scripture states:
Hebrews 9:15(NIV) reads
Quote For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.
We know Jesus was not yet dead until he was crucified by the Romans at the behest of his fellow Jewish countrymen and therefore the new covenant was not established until his death at the least.
The new covenant in fact was put in effect by Jesus’ death and not afterward though I believe further scripture gives evidence his resurrection was necessary before anyone could enter the new covenant and also his ascension since he could not mediate for us before the last happened.
Hebrews 9:16-17(NIV) reads:
Quote In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living.
So lets look at Luke 16:17 which states:
Luke 16:17(NIV) reads:
Quote It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.
So the Law is still binding to the Jews and those who choose to convert to Judaism but it is not binding to the Gentiles and those Jews who choose to practice Gentile customs as Paul and Peter did. Paul in fact gave evidence he was a Jew when advised to do so by James in Jerusalem.
Acts 21:17-26(NIV) reads:
Quote When we arrived at Jerusalem, the brothers received us warmly. The next day Paul and the rest of us went to see James, and all the elders were present. Paul greeted them and reported in detail what God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry. When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: “You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everybody will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law. As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.” The next day Paul took the men and purified himself along with them. Then he went to the temple to give notice of the date when the days of purification would end and the offering would be made for each of them.
As you can see there are different rules for the Jews and converts to Judaism than for the Gentiles but neither should judge the other as lesser for adherence to their separate customs nor should they hold themselves separate because of it.
Thanks KW,
John preached a baptism of water that washed the vessels enabling the new seeds of the teachings of Jesus to take root within, but until the new priesthood of Jesus, with him entering the holy place and tearing the curtain of his flesh, and him sharing the Spirit, kingdom living could not begin.Many were still bound till that time and no more could now enter that old covenant.
The Law will ever remain but now the standard is perfection and no easement is made for sin.
Then Romans and Galatians shows the difficulties Paul had with those who tried to turn back.
David wrote:
Quote I'm curious when you think the old covenant ended and when the new covenant began.
Who said the old covenant ended? I don’t remember any scripture that said it ended though there is one that states it is fading away. It is a covenant with the Hebrew people anyways and I am a Gentile and certainly not a covert to the Hebrew customs so prevalent in the Old Testament but I will not stand in the way of those that honor God by choosing to follow those customs for it is written:
Romans 14(NIV) reads:
Quote Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. It is written:
” 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord,
'every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will confess to God.' “So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.
Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men. Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.
So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.
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