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Ken So only you has the truth ,ha how self righteous, just like the Scribes ans Pharisees. Thank you for your Post. That is all for me.
Will pray for you Mrs.:(
Quote (kenrch @ Sep. 13 2007,03:02) Did they as soon as they sinned repented and was forgiven “on the spot” without having to wait a year for a priest to sprinkle them with animal blood?
This is a very good point.As I am studying and waiting on the LORD for understanding, this point keeps coming back to me that our Father has a reason for everything. The Feasts and the ceremonies had a purpose.
Are those purposes for which the Feasts and ceremonies were instated……still stand? The answer I am finding is, no, those purposes were fulfilled in Christ Jesus my Lord.
I am open, and I am studying with ferver. This is just what I have found so far.
Quote (IM4Truth @ Sep. 13 2007,03:21) Ken So only you has the truth ,ha how self righteous, just like the Scribes ans Pharisees. Thank you for your Post. That is all for me. Will pray for you Mrs.:(
Ok Mrs you do that
Quote (kenrch @ Sep. 13 2007,03:02) Quote (Laurel @ Sep. 13 2007,02:10) Quote (kenrch @ Sep. 12 2007,03:37) Quote (Laurel @ Sep. 11 2007,02:55) Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 09 2007,10:59) Quote (kenrch @ Sep. 09 2007,10:08) No Laurel Sister baby honey sweetheart,
Uh oh…….
Not to worry Not3, that is his way of gently telling me I am wrong.Ken there is only One Spirit. You gotta know that first. Then you can understand that all or part of it may dwell in someone or anyone, because Elohim wills it where ever He wills it, an in the porportion, and in the Way He sees it will be for the most good.
One other thing I want everyone to know is that YES there were those since the time of Adam, who were thaught of the Messiah and He is the Way from the beginning. No one come to the Father but by Him. Always and forever. This has not changed. How did they know of Him before He was born? They believed the Torah and the prophets!
Hope there is light on you all who read this.
Laurel
Laurel if all we needed was the blood of animals to receive the Holy Spirit then why did Christ Die?If “some” received the Holy Spirit and others did not. Then wouldn't God be a respecter of persons. They were all (including the Priest) “forgiven” for one year of their sins.
The apostles themselves did not receive the Holy Spirit until the Lamb of God was sacrificed.
Joh 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
Act 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
I thought the reason why we don't sacrifice animals is because we have the forgiveness of sins and the Holy Spirit. If those of the Old Testament had forgiveness of sins AND the Holy Spirit then why did Christ have to go through all what He did?
Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
There is one “Holy Spirit” but scriptures seems to speak of other spirits.
Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Exo 31:3 And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,
Exo 31:4 To devise cunning works, to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass,
Exo 31:5 And in cutting of stones, to set them, and in carving of timber, to work in all manner of workmanship.
Exo 31:6 And I, behold, I have given with him Aholiab, the son of Ahisamach, of the tribe of Dan: and in the hearts of all that are wise hearted I have put wisdom, that they may make all that I have commanded thee;
Exo 31:7 The tabernacle of the congregation, and the ark of the testimony, and the mercy seat that is thereupon, and all the furniture of the tabernacle,**Here we have the spirit of God filled this person. But was it the Holy Spirit? This was a spirit of wisdom and understanding, knowledge of all manner of workmanship. A spirit of knowledge that he might perform certain works.
If this person received the “Holy Spirit” then why did Christ have to die? The only benefit is that we would not sacrifice animals but the “Gift of the Spirit” would stay the same?
I think I would just let you guys go ahead and do your thing every year Rather than send my Son to be punished and crucified.
Peace,
Ken
Why test me with foolishness? We all know the blood of animals “never” was an exceptable offering for covering sin. It has been and has always been about “belief.”Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Rom 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
Heb 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
I'm sorry Sis but you say that the Old Covenant people had the Holy Spirit and were forgiven. Well Gee that is what we have isn't. The forgiveness of sin and the Holy Spirit. So again why did Jesus have to die? Jesus died JUST so we would not have to sacrifice animals is this the reason the Father sent His only begotten Son?I do believe Jesus' sacrifice did more for us than the sacrifice of animals.
Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.Was the law written in the hearts of those according to you were forgiven, received the Holy Spirit for one year.
Were people in the Old Covenant Led by the Spirit?
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Did they as soon as they sinned repented and was forgiven “on the spot” without having to wait a year for a priest to sprinkle them with animal blood?
I'm sorry but I just don't see the point of the feast except to remind us of sin that we of the New Covenant have already been forgiven.
Peace Sis,
Ken
The Spirit of Elohim dwelled in a “select few”, certain priest of the Levitical priest hood and certain prophets. The priest offered prayers of repentance to Elohim for the people in whom the Spirit was not.The written law was for them to know and follow. It is how they learned who Elohim was. The Torah (Law)is full of teaching about the Messiah.
In Y'shua's time, the Pharisees were the falsely appointed priest who had man made laws over and above the Torah, which made the Torah of no effect. They were like lost sheep, the blind fo
llowing the blind.YHWH set the Levites to be the true priests, but under the rule of Rome, Egypt, Babylon, the truth was covered up with the traditions of men.
YHWH sent His Son to be the once and for all time sacrifice. He was the fulfillment of the Passover lamb sacrifice that those in obedience to YHWH were protected by the angel of death, who put the lamb's blood on the door posts. This blood on the door posts is fulfilled when we as believers of the Passover sacrifice “fulfillment”, who know Y'shua's blood is the atonment for our sin, put His blood on the door posts of our mind, the gate to our mind, we put His blood over our eyes, and ears so that we will be protected from deception and only by obedience, we let the “truth” in. We are then protected from the evil one, and the second death.
Zechariah was the last living Levitical priest in the order of Malektzedek of the Levites. He was the uncle of our Messiah. John the baptist was his son, and Zechariah was murdered by the Pharisees between the alter and the temple.
Mat 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
This is where the prophet Joel speaks about the Jewish people:
Joe 2:17 Let the priests, the ministers of the LORD, weep between the porch and the altar, and let them say, Spare thy people, O LORD, and give not thine heritage to reproach, that the heathen should rule over them: wherefore should they say among the people, Where is their God?Now we can understand the promises given by Elohim and how Israel (Jacob) blessed his 12 sons who became Israel.
Gen 49:5 Simeon and Levi are brethren; instruments of cruelty are in their habitations.
Gen 49:6 O my soul, come not thou into their secret; unto their assembly, mine honour, be not thou united: for in their anger they slew a man, and in their selfwill they digged down a wall.
Gen 49:7 Cursed be their anger, for it was fierce; and their wrath, for it was cruel: I will divide them in Jacob, and scatter them in Israel.Gen 49:6 O my soul, come not thou into their secret; unto their assembly, mine honour, be not thou united: for in their anger they slew a man, and in their selfwill they digged down a wall.
Gen 49:7 Cursed be their anger, for it was fierce; and their wrath, for it was cruel: I will divide them in Jacob, and scatter them in Israel.
Gen 49:8 Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise: thy hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies; thy father's children shall bow down before Thee.
Gen 49:9 Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up?
Gen 49:10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
Gen 49:11 Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes:
Gen 49:12 His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk.Gen 49:22 Joseph is a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well; whose branches run over the wall:
Gen 49:23 The archers have sorely grieved him, and shot at him, and hated him:
Gen 49:24 But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob; (from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel:)
Gen 49:25 Even by the God of thy father, who shall help thee; and by the Almighty, who shall bless thee with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep that lieth under, blessings of the breasts, and of the womb:
Gen 49:26 The blessings of thy father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills: they shall be on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the head of him that was separate from his brethren.This is the promise, that the “Septer” which represents Malektzedek, was transfered to Messiah(Shilo). Messiah is the High Priest and the last in line. Messiah is also represented in Jacob through the promise of Elohim, so salvation is again stated in these promises. First it by belief in Messiah and ALSO obedience. Two requirements for salvation!!!
John the baptist father Zacheriah was the last Levite who in dwelled the Spirit, then Messiah who is final, and now the Spirit is upon all who believe in Him and His Father's doctrine in which He is the fullness of.
I hope I made it clear that Y'shua is the High Priest in the Order of Malektzedek. This priestly line was from the righteous Abel to Zacheriah, then finally to Y'shua Messiah.
Food for thought on this high Sabbath, Trumpets!!!! Toot Toot!!!
seekingtruth I bumped this up for you, if you want to see what I have said about the Covenant, from the beginning on.
Peace and Love Mrs.:D
Quote The Spirit of Elohim dwelled in a “select few”, certain priest of the Levitical priest hood and certain prophets. The priest offered prayers of repentance to Elohim for the people in whom the Spirit was not. Laurel if the priest had the Holy Spirit “dwelling” in them then why did they as the other people of the “Old Covenant” have to offer a scrifice for his sins?
Lev 4:3 if it is the anointed priest who sins, thus bringing guilt on the people, then he shall offer for the sin that he has committed a bull from the herd without blemish to the LORD for a sin offering.
The peanlty for sin had not yet been paid the Holy Spirit could not “Dwell” in anyone BUT Jesus because He had NO sin.
Ken,
There are “many” places in Scripture which state that YHWH's Spirit was with men.Do not question the many witnesses of truth. The Spirit dwelled in Moses. The Spirit dwelled in Joshua. The Spirit dwelled in Isaiah. The Spirit dwelled!!!!
How in the world do you think the Scriptures were written, if not by men in whom the Spirit dwelled?
Think about it grasshopper.
Quote Ken,
There are “many” places in Scripture which state that YHWH's Spirit was with men.Now you have it “WITH” men “NOT” dwelling “IN” men.
1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.Quote (Laurel @ Sep. 16 2007,14:14) Ken,
With men, in men, decended on men, blah, blah, blah.
Yeah blah blah blah BUT that is one difference between the Old and New CovenantQuote (kenrch @ Sep. 16 2007,14:15) Quote (Laurel @ Sep. 16 2007,14:14) Ken,
With men, in men, decended on men, blah, blah, blah.
Yeah blah blah blah BUT that is one difference between the Old and New Covenant
Ken,
There is no difference.
Light shines on the glass, in the glass, through the glass….Quote (Laurel @ Sep. 16 2007,14:21) Quote (kenrch @ Sep. 16 2007,14:15) Quote (Laurel @ Sep. 16 2007,14:14) Ken,
With men, in men, decended on men, blah, blah, blah.
Yeah blah blah blah BUT that is one difference between the Old and New Covenant
Ken,
There is no difference.
Light shines on the glass, in the glass, through the glass….
There is NO difference between the Old and New Covenant?The law is not NOW spiritual?
We are NOT now led by the Holy Spirit?
We are NOT born again?
We are NOT “forgiven” of our sin because Jesus paid the Penalty?
We no longer have to do physical “acts” to remind us of and forgive us our sin?
Jesus died for nothing?
Laurel do you believe Jesus died for your sin
Then why not accept HIS GIFT?
Is there a difference between God's law…that God wrote and the Sabbath HE created the seventh day AND the law He gave Moses to write and the annual Sabbaths that fell on different days every year?
The forth commandment Sabbath is plural? Remember to keep THE Sabbath. Why didn't God just say keep my SabbathS?
NO He said Sabbath the ONE Sabbath HE created not those that were added.
You may not realize it but you are a hindrance. I am trying to show that we are to keep just “TEN” Commandments. You want to shove a truck load of other Laws that were part of the Old Covenant down people's throat.
1Co 7:19 For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of God.
Paul said this is what is important “keeping the commandments of God”. The Ten Commandments that God wrote.
I believe this is what Paul was speaking of in Rom. 14. You want to gather on feasts days fine let one be convinced in their own mind BUT it is NOT necessary.
AGAIN, What matters is the keeping of God's commandments the TEN Commandments that HE wrote.
Peace,
Ken
This is for all What counts is what Jesus gave us. The New Covenant that He gave us and the New Commandments
TO LOVE GOD WITH ALL OF YOUR HEART AND WITH ALL OF YOUR MIGHT.
sECOND TO LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF.THESE ARE THE GREATEST COMMANDMENTS OF ALL.
We are not under the Old Testament Law, Ghrist fulfilled that.
But we have to remember that we are not lawledd like some might claim.
In fact Jesus magnified the Law and that makes it spiritual. Now if we are angry with a Brother we have commited murder in our hearts. If we lust after a woman we have committed adultery in our hearts.
God looks on the heart not like we keep the Sabbath for instant.
Paul tells usin
Romans 14: 13 “One esteems one day and one will keep every day alike.
On the other hand Paul tell us not to stop meeting like some did at that time. We need the time with other likeminded People. If you can find them. In todays society that is hard to do. I am happy that God has revealed this to my Husband and I at the same time, and that makes us at one with Jesus and our Heavenly Father.
Each one of us has to be convinced in our own minds. Each one of us has to PROVE ALL THINGS TO US. Don't believe men.
You can use men and study with what they are saying but the respnsibility lies on you to prove it.Peace and Love Mrs.
There goes your fleshy mind again, imagining things. The topic was the Spirit and how it comes to men, upon men, in men. We were not talking about the old covenant whaere the Spirit only came upon, in, on, a select few.
Thanks to our Savior we ALL have access to the Father, through the Spirit, which comes upon, in, on all that believe that Y'shua is the Son of Elohim.
About the two great commands, which by the way are not new, I was enlightened one day while reading Y'shua's words about them. I'll post first then reiterate my enlightening.
Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.Now I'll post old testament Scripture:
Deu 6:1 Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:
Deu 6:2 That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.
Deu 6:3 Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
Deu 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Deu 6:6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Deu 6:7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
Deu 6:8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
Deu 6:9 And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.That is how we love YHWH and it is the first and greatest command!
The second command is like the first, that we should love thy neighbor as thyself. Now I'll post the second commandment:
Deu 5:8 Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:
Deu 5:9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,
Deu 5:10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.The reason I posted this second commandment is to show that we are not to worship other people as gods. We are not to put our bretheren before YHWH. We are to put Him first, above all others meaning our spouses, our childrean, our sports heros, our bosses, etc.
When we are learning to obey our Father, love for Him is what we are to test our faith against. This is how we know if we are on the right path… If we love Him first then love one another.
Laurel It is amazing to me how you can start out in the N.T. and end up in the Old and combine them. That is your Doctrine not according to scripture. I am not imagining anything all I do is give you scripture, while you want to be back in the Old T.
Sorry You will never convince me of your beliefs.
Besides my Husband and I have studied the Bible much longer then you have, You have no respect for your elders either, You think you can insult me like you have and just go on, like nothing happened.
But I forgive you anyway.Peace and Love Mrs.:D
Quote God looks on the heart not like we keep the Sabbath for instant Jesus who spoke for the Father said “if you love me keep my commandments”.
If one “truly” keeps “the greatest commandments” Love the Lord you God with all you heart mind and soul then one would keep the first four commandments Including and especially the Forth Commandment. Remember to keep His Sabbath.
If one cannot SEE that then it is because that person does not want to please the God they say they love.
This is the love you “should” have for God. This is His word. He is telling you what pleases Him but for some reason people just want to “do their thing” and say that's what pleases God.
1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
What does one do just pretend all scriptures like the above one doesn't exist?
You say you love God with all that you are but you won't Keep His Sabbath. Some would rather keep pagan days than God's Sabbath Day.
The truth is so plain and simple that a babe would tell you their are Ten Commandments.
I fear that some have been rejecting the truth of the Spirit for so long that they no longer have a conscience and may never see truth.
1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
I don't know why I must keep repeating the same truth over and over. Perhaps their is “one” who is listening
Spirit and Truth,
Ken
kEN I wonder why I have to write the truth over and over again maybe somebody will listen again. Mandy finally understood. You have like I said before 3 quarter in the New and 1 quarter in the old, and do not see it. Just like Laurel cant see it.
Paul
Romans 14:5 ” One Person esteems on day above another and another person esteems every day alike.
Let every person be convinced in their own mind.Roman6:23 For the wages of Sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus.
Ephesians 2:8 ” For by grace you have been saved through Faith and that not of yourself, it is the gift from God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.
Ken you know I was there were you are we kept the law in the W.W.C. of God. You say you keep it spiritual, but the Sabbath cannot be kept spiritual that is just it, it is a Physical day of rest.
This is the last time I am going to say anything about it, because I do not want to get into it with you again.
And we are not Lawless like you have claimed before. In fact it is some what harder to go by the Sermon on the Mount.
So I do not want to get angry again my Brother, I will pray for you.
It is really funny, my Husband and I have gotten so used to doing our cleaning etc. on Thursdays and Fridays that Saturdays we do no work anyway. A man is a man of good and bad habits.But the essence is in Christ Jesus, we are to overcome and let the mind that was in Christ be in us. We are under His Blood. All the way. Not 3 quarter all the way.
Keep His Commandments they come from the Father. Hear that Prophet (Jesus), He has fulfilled all, ALL. He is the Lord of the Sabbath too.
I am the temple of God, the Holy Spirit of God lives in me, therefore I keep every day alike. And if you want to judge me in that, you are judging yourself.Peace and Love Mrs.
First of all Mrs. my comment was for Ken. Secondly, you can study the Bible all your life and know less than I can learn in a day if Elohim wills.
You will never ruffle my feathers when it comes to true doctrine, Elohim is with me.
Y'shua and His taught ones taught from the Scriptures. The New Testament wasn't written yet, so that means they taught from the Torah and the prophets.
I do understand what I read.
Joh 2:22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.Joh 20:9 For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.
2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.Laurel
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