Covenants

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 08 2007,08:43)

Quote (kenrch @ Sep. 08 2007,02:30)

Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 07 2007,17:37)

You don't intend to let go of “your” Christmas either You still have some of the world in you Mandy (party girl) isn't that what you said about yourself?

We “all” struggle with the temptations of this world according to the flesh. But we are to walk in the Spirit. You are seeking a spirit to tell you that the word of God is wrong~!

Spirit and Truth…NOT just Spirit…NOT just Truth (Word) SPIRIT AND TRUTH.

What does Spirit and Truth say?

And don't try and put the blame on me because in your heart you “don't' want to let these things “go”. But if you are to grow you will have to let the “worldly things” go.

I don't say these things to be mean! I'm saying these things so you will grow in the LORD.

This is the LOVE OF GOD.

1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

This IS the Commandment.

2Jo 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

This is the “TRUE WORD OF GOD” and you know it!

This is the true Love. The true love to care and take the beating that is to come because I share the truth.

OH I LOVE the Lord but won't keep His Commandments. Is this “true love” scripture says over and over If you love God Keep His Commandments.

The last day saints will be keeping the Commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus. Rev 14:12

You don't have to like me Mandy But don't you think you should Love God?

The Lord has given you more truth…. will you swallow Or choke? It's all part of growing in the Lord.

Make no mistake it's “your decision”. Not mine Not Mrs.

Ken

kenrch

God is not pleased by your judgment of others heart for not following your interpretation of scriptures.

Its one thing to point out error, but I think you have crossed the line on this one.

WJ you speak fo GOD! YOU who follows the doctrines of the Harlot? I don't think so!

September 7, 2007 at 10:28 pm#65550

Participant

Please go to the Sabbath thread.

September 8, 2007 at 4:32 am#65566

Participant

WJ, you are a lonely soul on this thread.
We who follow the commands do not believe we are saved by our works. Simply faith without works is dead. We follow the commands to show our Father in heaven that it is Him that we worship. We follow the commands because we love Him. We follow the commands because Y'shua Messiah followed the commands and He is our Master and whomwe should follow.

I'll share a short story that I heard on the radio today.

A father took his son out to the family cottage to go fishing. The boy was really excited because he loved fishing and being out on the water.

Knowing this, the father told the son to go ahead and fish from shore whil he went to dig up some more worms, but he warned his son to “Stay out of the boat.”

While digging worms across the yard, the father heard his son screaming for help. Father rushed to the water to see his son splahing around trying to get to the peir.

Father dove in to rescue his son for there come swiftly upon him was an aligator!

He pushed the boy to the safety of the pier, but the gator got hold of the father's leg. The man was strong enough to kick with one foot and pull himself up to the pier. After what seemed like a long tussle, the father finally got up and out of the water, but his leg was bleeding terribly.

The son as if oblivious to the whole scare, tripped over his father who was groaning in pain, ran to the end of the pier and grabbed the boat that had by this time, floated back. The boy with blood on his sneakers, got in the boat and began rowing away, leaving his father to fend for himself.

This example is what it is like to sin on purpose after we have recieved the Spirit of truth.
This is why we “choose” to obey the commands and not “trample” the blood of our Messiah.

Amen
I hope you all have a blessed Shabbat.
Laurel

September 8, 2007 at 5:02 am#65571

Participant

Laurel,
Thanks for sharing this story.

Blessed Shabbat to you as well,
Mandy

September 8, 2007 at 5:36 am#65572

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 08 2007,09:42)

We are free from being justified by the keeping of the law.

Keith,

Yes, you are correct. Our forefathers couldn't keep the covenant of the law, and they were led by the hand of God out of their bondage! If it didn't work for them, how can we possibly think it will work for us?

Hebrews, Chapter 8

September 8, 2007 at 8:25 am#65576

IM4Truth

Participant

WJ That post of yours has surprised me, I did not think you believed in the New Covenant. But you believe in the trinity Doctrine is that not correct?
I am getting confused in what your believes are?

Mandy I think the Covenant that you are referring to in Hebrew 8 is a Covenant that God still is going to make with the Jewish People in the future. We are under the Covenant that Jesus gave us in
Luke 22:20 Likewise He took the cup after supper, saying.” THIS CUP IS THE NEW COVENANT IN MY BLOOD WHICH IS SHED FOR YOU.
And the next day He sealed it with His Blood and died for us.
He gives us the Royal Law which is Love God with all of your Heart and your Neighbor as thyself. And He magnified all commandments and made them spiritual on the sermon on the mount. A steep road indeed. And few will find it.
But with the Holy Spirit it is possible, it will guide you and led you in all truths. Walk in the Spirit of God it lives in you, we are the temple of God.
Peace and Love Mrs.:D

September 8, 2007 at 1:57 pm#65580

Participant

Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 08 2007,17:36)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 08 2007,09:42)

We are free from being justified by the keeping of the law.

Keith,

Hebrews, Chapter 8

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Amen! The old covenant of animal sacrifices has been gone fulfilled by the lamb of God! And because we now have “FORGIVENESS” for our sin instead of a “COVERING” we are given the Holy Spirit which those of the “OLD” Covenant did not have.

This is why our righteousness is to exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees.

Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees [Old Covenant], ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

We have the Holy Spirit and NO excuse

God bless,

Ken

September 8, 2007 at 3:54 pm#65586

Participant

Correction…

There were a few chosen ones who DID have the Spirit in them. I got the KJV without the numbers so here are some proofs to my statement:

Exo 33:11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.

Num 14:30 Doubtless ye shall not come into the land, concerning which I sware to make you dwell therein, except Caleb the son of Jephunneh, and Joshua the son of Nun.

Num 26:62 And those that were numbered of them were twenty and three thousand, all males from a month old and upward: for they were not numbered among the children of Israel, because there was no inheritance given them among the children of Israel.
Num 26:63 These are they that were numbered by Moses and Eleazar the priest, who numbered the children of Israel in the plains of Moab by Jordan near Jericho.
Num 26:64 But among these there was not a man of them whom Moses and Aaron the priest numbered, when they numbered the children of Israel in the wilderness of Sinai.
Num 26:65 For the LORD had said of them, They shall surely die in the wilderness. And there was not left a man of them, save Caleb the son of Jephunneh, and Joshua the son of Nun.

Num 27:18 And the LORD said unto Moses, Take thee Joshua the son of Nun, a man in whom is the spirit, and lay thine hand upon him;
Num 27:19 And set him before Eleazar the priest, and before all the congregation; and give him a charge in their sight.
Num 27:20 And thou shalt put some of thine honour upon him, that all the congregation of the children of Israel may be obedient.
Num 27:21 And he shall stand before Eleazar the priest, who shall ask counsel for him after the judgment of Urim before the LORD: at his word shall they go out, and at his word they shall come in, both he, and all the children of Israel with him, even all the congregation.
Num 27:22 And Moses did as the LORD commanded him: and he took Joshua, and set him before Eleazar the priest, and before all the congregation:
Num 27:23 And he laid his hands upon him, and gave him a charge, as the LORD commanded by the hand of Moses.

1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
1Co 10:5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
1Co 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
1Co 10:7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
1Co 10:8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
1Co 10:9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
1Co 10:10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
1Co 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

So here we see Joshua son of Nun had the Spirit in him. He was appointed to take the children of Israel to the promised land, because could not. Moses laid his hands on Joshua in front of the people and gave him charge “over” the high priest.

Then we see in the Messianic Scripture, Paul spoke of those days of Joshua son of Nun and said we are to learn from their example. Twenty three thousand died because they committed “fornication”, by offering strange sacrifice in fire to God. Scripture dosen't say here what the “strange sacrifice” was, but know from more reading that they offered their sons and daughters as sacrifices and made them walk through the fire to “MOLEK”

So the Israelites “thought” they were doing it for God, BUT in reality, Elohim never commanded it so. Elohim said it was an abomination to Him! If not to Him , then obviously, to “another.”

The new covenant is perfect, it is the old covenant made new and perfect. Then only a select few had direct access to the Father, now in the renewed covenant, the veil, the enmity has been lifted so that each one according to their faith has access to the Father, we no longer have to go through an appointed one, because Y'shua Messiah IS the high priest in the order of Malektzedek, and His blood was offered as the once and for all sacrifice according to the book of Hebrews.

September 8, 2007 at 5:49 pm#65592

Participant

Quote (Laurel @ Sep. 09 2007,03:54)

Correction…

There were a few chosen ones who DID have the Spirit in them. I got the KJV without the numbers so here are some proofs to my statement:

Num 14:30 Doubtless ye shall not come into the land, concerning which I sware to make you dwell therein, except Caleb the son of Jephunneh, and Joshua the son of Nun.

So the Israelites “thought” they were doing it for God, BUT in reality, Elohim never commanded it so. Elohim said it was an abomination to Him! If not to Him , then obviously, to “another.”

I don't see the Spirit in these scriptures.

Num 14:30 Doubtless ye shall not come into the land, concerning which I sware to make you dwell therein, except Caleb the son of Jephunneh, and Joshua the son of Nun.

**How were these people born in sin, received the “Holy Spirit” of God when the sacrifice for the forgiveness of sin was not yet given?
Exo 31:3 And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,

**Here we have the spirit of God filled this person. But was it the Holy Spirit? This was a spirit of wisdom and understanding, knowledge of all manner of workmanship. A spirit of knowledge that he might perform certain works.

Exo 31:4 To devise cunning works, to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass,
Exo 31:5 And in cutting of stones, to set them, and in carving of timber, to work in all manner of workmanship.
Exo 31:6 And I, behold, I have given with him Aholiab, the son of Ahisamach, of the tribe of Dan: and in the hearts of all that are wise hearted I have put wisdom, that they may make all that I have commanded thee;
Exo 31:7 The tabernacle of the congregation, and the ark of the testimony, and the mercy seat that is thereupon, and all the furniture of the tabernacle,

**So every time the word spirit appears does not mean the Holy Spirit**.

Num 27:16 Let the LORD, the God of the spirits of all flesh, set a man over the congregation,
Num 27:17 Which may go out before them, and which may go in before them, and which may lead them out, and which may bring them in; that the congregation of the LORD be not as sheep which have no shepherd.
Num 27:18 And the LORD said unto Moses, Take thee Joshua the son of Nun, a man in whom is the spirit, and lay thine hand upon him;

**Spirit of what? Leadership perhaps? I see nothing to says that Joshua a man in sin, Not yet forgiven, received the “Holy Spirit”.

**Yes a spirit of leadership.
Num 2
7:23 And he laid his hands upon him, *”and gave him a charge”*, as the LORD commanded by the hand of Moses.

**Sorry I don't see the “Holy Spirit” filled in these people of the Old Covenant.
1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
**Yes they ate the manna from heaven…spiritual meat (food).

1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
**And they drank water from a rock and that rock was Christ who gave water from thr rock.
**Where does it say they were filled with the “Holy Spirit”?
1Co 10:5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
1Co 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
1Co 10:7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
1Co 10:8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
1Co 10:9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
1Co 10:10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
1Co 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
**The Spirit of God was upon them but NOT in them.
1Sa 16:13 Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Quote

The new covenant is perfect, it is the old covenant made new and perfect.

**No, the Old Covenant was NOT made New it was done away with and “REPLACED” by the “NEW”
**A new covenant is just that NEW not a refurbished covenant but a Brand New not a used covenant redone, but a new covenant.
Heb 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

God is no respecter of persons.

Act 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
Simply put How could these people of the Old Covenant with it's “covering” of sin receive the Holy Spirit when the Lamb of God was not yet offered for the forgiveness of sin?
We are under a NEW Covenant. A much better Covenant the Old Covenant is past away behold all things have become new.
2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

We are New creatures of the New Covenant our sins forgiven and not just covered!
If I am wrong the that's ok just show me where? I'm willing to be corrected. But if some were filled with the Spirit and others were not then how could God expect “ALL” not to sin?

Peace,

Ken

September 8, 2007 at 7:04 pm#65600

Participant

Ken,
I didn't hit the “quote” bar because it is so long, but in refering back to your statement, “I don't see the Spirit in these Scriptures.”

Once again it is because you missed it. Go back and read Numbers 27:18 and you will see where YHWH told Moses to make Joshua the leader, because the Spirit was in him. I posted a lot there so go back and read slowly all that is written, you will see the whole picture, and how it relates to us today.
Laurel

September 8, 2007 at 7:13 pm#65601

Participant

Eze 11:15 Son of man, thy brethren, even thy brethren, the men of thy kindred, and all the house of Israel wholly, are they unto whom the inhabitants of Jerusalem have said, Get you far from the LORD: unto us is this land given in possession.
Eze 11:16 Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Although I have cast them far off among the heathen, and although I have scattered them among the countries, yet will I be to them as a little sanctuary in the countries where they shall come.
Eze 11:17 Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even gather you from the people, and assemble you out of the countries where ye have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel.
Eze 11:18 And they shall come thither, and they shall take away all the detestable things thereof and all the abominations thereof from thence.
Eze 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
Eze 11:20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

Here we read that the people of “old” were taught of the renewed covenant which is a better covenant where in this renewed covenant the stony heart would be made fleshy. The written Word would be made alive.

September 8, 2007 at 7:17 pm#65602

Participant

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Peace,

Ken

The old things that passed away is our old sins. The are no more in Messiah. We are new and clean.

September 8, 2007 at 7:21 pm#65604

Participant

Lev 4:20 And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them.

FORGIVEN not COVERED

Why, because the priest who offered the sacrifice had the Spirit in him and came before Elohim on behalf of the people. As only the high priest could. At this time ordinary folks like you and I did not have the Spirit in them.

September 8, 2007 at 10:08 pm#65609

Participant

Quote (Laurel @ Sep. 09 2007,07:04)

Ken,
I didn't hit the “quote” bar because it is so long, but in refering back to your statement, “I don't see the Spirit in these Scriptures.”

No Laurel Sister baby honey sweetheart,

I addressed Num 27:18. I gave an example and said that just because the word spirit appears it does not mean the Holy Spirit. God gave a person a spirit of understanding and knpwledge to do certain type of work. But the scripture says he is filled with the spirit…. Spirit of what? Knowledge of the work he was to perform.

Exo 31:3 And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,

**So every time the word spirit appears does not mean the Holy Spirit**.

**Spirit of what? Leadership perhaps? I see nothing to says that Joshua a man in sin, Not yet forgiven, received the “Holy Spirit”.

**Yes a spirit of leadership.

Num 27:23 And he laid his hands upon him, *”and gave him a charge”*, as the LORD commanded by the hand of Moses.

Joshua had the spirit of a leader.

September 8, 2007 at 10:59 pm#65612

Participant

Quote (kenrch @ Sep. 09 2007,10:08)

No Laurel Sister baby honey sweetheart,

Uh oh…….

September 8, 2007 at 11:03 pm#65615

Participant

Quote (Laurel @ Sep. 09 2007,07:21)

Lev 4:20 And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them.

FORGIVEN not COVERED

Laurel their sins were forgiven for one year. That is a covering Not forgiveness. Not a washing away of their sin but blood that covered their sin for one year at which time the priest had to do the same thing again because their sin was NOT washed away. But “forgiven” until the next feast one year latter.

Heb 10:3 But in these sacrifices there is a reminder of sin every year.
Heb 10:4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
Heb 10:5 Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said, “Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired, but a body have you prepared for me;
Heb 10:6 in burnt offerings and sin offerings you have taken no pleasure.

So sins were forgiven for a year? Isn't that a covering until the year is up. Sort of like an insurance policy you are covered for the year after that you have to renew your policy.

The priest did not forgive their sins it was the “blood” of the animals that was the offering. I still don't see the priest being filled with the “Holy Spirit”.

So yeah it was a forgiving BUT a temporary forgiveness like a covering for one year.

September 8, 2007 at 11:06 pm#65617

Participant

Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 09 2007,10:59)

Quote (kenrch @ Sep. 09 2007,10:08)

No Laurel Sister baby honey sweetheart,

Uh oh…….

Just a little humour

September 9, 2007 at 4:21 am#65633