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Quote (t8 @ Jan. 22 2013,13:42) Let's go back to the original question: Could monkeys type the 23rd psalm?
Stu, being a monkey and all, could you do it?
Yes they could. But is it likely, if they type randomly? No, the odds are so small that we should not expect to see even the shortest line, say “With oil my cup runneth over”, even if all the monkeys on the planet were given typewriters and cups of coffee and their natural lifetimes to bang away at the keys.But what is the point of the question?
Stuart
To all,
As Stu declares, this question seems pointless. It can be tested very easily today by using a random key stroke generator to simulate the monkey's typing. Sooner or later all the strings of the 23rd Psalm would appear, provided God or Satan did not interfere.
Statisticians should be able to determine the times involved as there are a limited number of keys on a keyboard.
Yes, now try typing out the universe and all DNA that makes up life forms.
That is the point is it not?
If the question is extremely unlikely, then what of the universe.
No monkey has ever done this to date BTW. If Stu has, he could show the proof.
Stu it is not our fault that you cannot comprehend the grand scheme of things.
That is why the difference between apes and monkeys and other trivial things are of utmost importance to you.Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 23 2013,02:34) To all, As Stu declares, this question seems pointless. It can be tested very easily today by using a random key stroke generator to simulate the monkey's typing. Sooner or later all the strings of the 23rd Psalm would appear, provided God or Satan did not interfere.
Statisticians should be able to determine the times involved as there are a limited number of keys on a keyboard.
The chance of randomly typing the eight keys (seven letters and one space) in the right sequence for the two words THE LORD is 1 in 50 x 50 … eight times (i.e. 508). This is 1 chance in 39,062 billion. There are 31,536,000 seconds in a year, so the average time taken in years to make 39,062 billion strikes at the rate of one strike per second would be 1,238,663.7 years.The time taken on the average to correctly type the whole of verse 1 of the 23rd Psalm, which contains 42 letters, punctuation, and spaces, would be 5042 divided by 31,536,000 (seconds in a year), which is 7.2 x 1063 years.
And the time taken on the average to correctly type the whole of the 23rd Psalm, made up of 603 letters, verse numbers, punctuation, and spaces, would be 50603 divided by 31,536,000 which is 9.552 x 101016 years.4 If the letter ‘b’ stands for billion (109), this could be written as about one bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb years.
By comparison, the evolutionists’ age of the Earth is (only) 4.6 billion years, and the evolutionists’ age of the universe is (only) almost 15 billion years.
‘When we come to examine the simplest known organism capable of independent existence, the situation becomes even more fantastic. In the DNA chain of the chromosome of the bacterium E. coli, a favourite organism used by molecular biologists, the [DNA] helix consists of 3-4 million base pairs. These are all arranged in a sequence that is ’meaningful’ in the sense that it gives rise to enzyme molecules which fit the various metabolites and products used by the cell. This unique sequence represents a choice of one out of 102,000,000 alternative ways of arranging the bases! We are compelled to conclude that the origin of the first life was a unique event, which cannot be discussed in terms of probability.
Good find seekingtruth.
Is there no question that has not been answered on the net,
except is there a God?Tim
Quote (TimothyVI @ Jan. 23 2013,17:40) Good find seekingtruth. Is there no question that has not been answered on the net,
except is there a God?Tim
lol, Ooh it's been answered, with every possible answer there is.In this case however the site offers some convincing evidence that the premise offered, can monkeys type the 23rd psalm (or more importantly life from non-life) is a statistical impossibility.
Wm
seekingtruth thanks for your post.
Some people prefer to believe the impossible and deny the probable because they don't like the probable. It has little to do with logic as you have pointed out.
If Monkeys possess some intelligence, (compliment for you there Stu) and cannot type out Shakespeare, then how likely is it that all DNA code would come about by even way lesser intelligence than that of a group of monkeys.
On that subject I read this today:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-21145163DNA perfect for digital storage
Scientists have given another eloquent demonstration of how DNA could be used to archive digital data.The UK team encoded a scholarly paper, a photo, Shakespeare's sonnets and a portion of Martin Luther King's I Have A Dream speech in artificially produced segments of the “life molecule”.
The information was then read back out with 100% accuracy.
It is possible to store huge volumes of data in DNA for thousands of years, the researchers write in Nature magazine.
They acknowledge that the costs involved in synthesizing the molecule in the lab make this type of information storage “breathtakingly expensive” at the moment, but argue that newer, faster technologies will soon make it much more affordable, especially for long-term archiving.
“One of the great properties of DNA is that you don't need any electricity to store it,” explained team-member Dr Ewan Birney from the European Bioinformatics Institute (EBI) at Hinxton, near Cambridge.
“If you keep it cold, dry and dark – DNA lasts for a very long time. We know that because we routinely sequence woolly mammoth DNA that is kept by chance in those sorts of conditions.” Mammoth remains are many thousands of years old.
The group cites government and historical records as examples of data that could benefit from the molecular storage option.
Much of this information is not required every day but still needs to be kept. Once encoded in DNA, it could be put away safely in a vault until it was needed.
The coding used the same four “letters”, or bases, but in a language living cells would not understand
And unlike other storage media presently in use such as hard disk-drives and magnetic tapes, the DNA “library” would not demand constant maintenance.In addition, the universality of the life molecule means there would probably never be a backwards-compatibility issue where the technology of the day was incapable of reading the vault's archives.
“We think there will always be DNA-reading technology so long as there is DNA-based life around on Earth, assuming it is technologically sophisticated of course,” Dr Birney told BBC News.
This is not the first time that DNA has been used to encode the sort of routine information we keep on our computers.
Last year, for example, an American group published the results of a very similar experiment in Science Magazine. The Boston researchers laid down a whole book in DNA.
A bioengineer and geneticist at Harvard’s Wyss Institute have successfully stored 5.5 petabits of data — around 700 terabytes — in a single gram of DNA, smashing the previous DNA data density record by a thousand times.
I'll have another stab at my question.
What is the point of asking whether monkeys could type the 23rd Psalm?
People seem to be claiming that there are others who believe that DNA can be made by monkeys typing, or that a similar mechanism is thought to have produced the universe.
Can anyone explain?
Stuart
Quote (t8 @ Jan. 23 2013,09:38) Yes, now try typing out the universe and all DNA that makes up life forms. That is the point is it not?
If the question is extremely unlikely, then what of the universe.
No monkey has ever done this to date BTW. If Stu has, he could show the proof.
You are saying that the universe and DNA is typed, but monkeys can't be responsible for the typing?Stuart
Quote (t8 @ Jan. 24 2013,12:36) If Monkeys possess some intelligence, (compliment for you there Stu) and cannot type out Shakespeare, then how likely is it that all DNA code would come about by even way lesser intelligence than that of a group of monkeys.
I don't think it is likely that DNA came about by the application of any intelligence at all.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Jan. 24 2013,19:59) I'll have another stab at my question. What is the point of asking whether monkeys could type the 23rd Psalm?
Don't worry about it Stu.If you haven't got it by now, you likely never will.
Try posting in a topic you can follow would be my advice.I think I saw a topic about sewing here. If I find it, would you like the link?
Quote (Stu @ Jan. 24 2013,20:02) I don't think it is likely that DNA came about by the application of any intelligence at all. Stuart
Stu, we knew that the first week you joined.
No need to repeat yourself. Takes up valuable pixels.
Do you think pixels grow on trees or something.Quote (Stu @ Jan. 24 2013,20:00) You are saying that the universe and DNA is typed, but monkeys can't be responsible for the typing? Stuart
No. Have another go Stu.Quote (t8 @ Jan. 24 2013,17:57) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 24 2013,19:59) I'll have another stab at my question. What is the point of asking whether monkeys could type the 23rd Psalm?
Don't worry about it Stu.
Well, the literal question has been answered then.Yes, monkeys could type the 23rd Psalm.
No, it's not likely that they would.
Is that all you wanted to know?
If so, end of thread, and much head scratching as to what flight of fantasy conspiracy theory your brain was taking when it came up with the title. Another false analogy, probably.
Stuart
Does anyone else know why t8 asked about monkeys typing biblical verses?
I should think they are more interested in typing up treatises on modern arboreal living and cercopithecidic or platyrrhine philosophy.
Stuart
Quote (t8 @ Jan. 24 2013,12:36) If Monkeys possess some intelligence, (compliment for you there Stu) and cannot type out Shakespeare, then how likely is it that all DNA code would come about by even way lesser intelligence than that of a group of monkeys.
a group of Humans acting as a denomination can conduct themselves with little to no intellect. Could that be the robot DNA?The craftiest of beasts will always be feared an thrive to rule the Jungle
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