Could monkeys type the 23rd psalm?

[Stu]

Quote (seekingtruth @ Dec. 14 2012,00:21)

Evidently so, Do you really believe we possess any significant portion of all the knowledge in the universe? Science takes scattered facts, to create theories but then forgets that they're only theories and begins building further “facts” (theories) on top of other “facts” (theories). My opinion – Wm

I've got no idea what you are on about. Maybe you could illustrate with an example?

Stuart

[charity]

AS long as Time an space proceed, emotional convictions, bigotry, an superior reasoning can be preserved.

[Stu]

Quote (charity @ Dec. 14 2012,20:56)

AS long as Time an space proceed, emotional convictions, bigotry, an superior reasoning can be preserved.

Exactly!

Stuart

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Stu @ Dec. 11 2012,20:54)

Quote (t8 @ Dec. 11 2012,07:41) Quote (Stu @ Dec. 09 2012,23:39) That idea is that since no god believer has ever produced unambiguous evidence for his god claim, therefore it is a valid provisional conclusion that the god believer is deluded, and no gods really exist. That's not a faith-based belief that I hold because it is not based in evidence, it is a scientific conclusion based in the fact that there is no evidence. Let's swap the word 'God' for 'alien life'. That idea is that since an alien life believer has ever produced unambiguous evidence for this alien life claim, therefore it is a valid provisional conclusion that the alien life believer is deluded, and no alien life really exist. Okay people please feel free to show what else Stu doesn't believe in given his amazing robust thought process. So when people make earnest claims that aliens do exist and they can tell you what aliens do and don't do, you are prepared to have an open mind and accept that people might have such knowledge genuinely? Stuart

Correct. It is possible that they may have come into contact with alien life as they say. I would never be so arrogant to say that they were absolutely wrong because I know that I am not all-knowing. However, in my mind I might believe that it was highly unlikely given my experience, but in the back of my mind, I also know that my experience is very small compared with all experiences that humanity has had.

I think that much of what is called proof of alien existence or alien visitations can be explained in natural or historical terms. Likewise, much of what is considered to be of God is also just statistical probabilities.

e.g., a person is poor and prays for help and wins the Lotto. But we know statistically that a certain percentage of people who win Lotto are likely not that well off, and a percentage of them might pray for financial help. Possible in the parameters of reality with no intervention required.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Stu @ Dec. 16 2012,11:22)

Quote (charity @ Dec. 14 2012,20:56) AS long as Time an space proceed, emotional convictions, bigotry, an superior reasoning can be preserved. Exactly! Stuart

Exactly. You guys are not exempt from this.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Stu @ Dec. 11 2012,21:08)

You don't seem to be familiar with the longstanding body of unambiguous evidence in support of black holes. Scientific theories make predictions which sometimes can't be tested until the technology has become available.  We knew we had to make a Large Hadron Collider to confirm the existence of the originally proposed Higgs Boson. ……….. Stuart

Not true Stu. I was fully aware that this was hypothesized by mathematicians and later described within terms from Einsteins own theory of General Relativity.

I used the example of Black Holes because there was logical reasoning for their existence just the same as there is logical reasoning for the existence of an eternal something that all things came from and making the intricate universe and life possible, and likely containing all that was required to produce what we see, (including life).

So in the same way that Black Holes were shown to be possible even before their observation, so it is with God because the oldest thing or that which contains even time must be infinite. Yet you want observation with God and did not require it with Black Holes. Can you say “Double Standard”.

Your method if consistent is that of denying existence of anything until a photograph is taken. Many would say that this is a silly way of thinking and is in fact the reason why scripture says, “the fool has said there is no God”.

But in reality you choose your own vain biases to determine what is possible. So you are lacking in even basic logic and this is the second time in this discussion I have shown your thought processes and reasoning for your conclusions to be found wanting.

When you can prove to me that you are free of bias and your thinking is clear, then I might give you a bit of credit for your view. I have however given you years to shape up, but you haven't changed one bit.

So back to the Great Merry Go Round for Stu. It is at least somewhat interesting observing how easy delusion sets in when a person cannot free themselves from bias and hence are not open to truth.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Stu @ Dec. 14 2012,16:50)

Quote (seekingtruth @ Dec. 14 2012,00:21) Evidently so, Do you really believe we possess any significant portion of all the knowledge in the universe? Science takes scattered facts, to create theories but then forgets that they're only theories and begins building further “facts” (theories) on top of other “facts” (theories). My opinion – Wm I've got no idea what you are on about ….. Stuart

We have been saying this for a while now.
We are on the same page now.

[TimothyVI]

Quote (t8 @ Dec. 16 2012,20:03)

It is at least somewhat interesting observing how easy delusion sets in when a person cannot free themselves from bias and hence are not open to truth.

That is very interesting indeed.

Ti

[Stu]

Quote (t8 @ Dec. 16 2012,20:03)

Quote (Stu @ Dec. 11 2012,21:08) You don't seem to be familiar with the longstanding body of unambiguous evidence in support of black holes. Scientific theories make predictions which sometimes can't be tested until the technology has become available.  We knew we had to make a Large Hadron Collider to confirm the existence of the originally proposed Higgs Boson. ……….. Stuart Not true Stu. I was fully aware that this was hypothesized by mathematicians and later described within terms from Einsteins own theory of General Relativity. I used the example of Black Holes because there was logical reasoning for their existence just the same as there is logical reasoning for the existence of an eternal something that all things came from and making the intricate universe and life possible, and likely containing all that was required to produce what we see, (including life). So in the same way that Black Holes were shown to be possible even before their observation, so it is with God because the oldest thing or that which contains even time must be infinite. Yet you want observation with God and did not require it with Black Holes. Can you say “Double Standard”. Your method if consistent is that of denying existence of anything until a photograph is taken. Many would say that this is a silly way of thinking and is in fact the reason why scripture says, “the fool has said there is no God”. But in reality you choose your own vain biases to determine what is possible. So you are lacking in even basic logic and this is the second time in this discussion I have shown your thought processes and reasoning for your conclusions to be found wanting. When you can prove to me that you are free of bias and your thinking is clear, then I might give you a bit of credit for your view. I have however given you years to shape up, but you haven't changed one bit. So back to the Great Merry Go Round for Stu. It is at least somewhat interesting observing how easy delusion sets in when a person cannot free themselves from bias and hence are not open to truth.

You've never explained why I should not expect a photograph.

Stuart

[Stu]

Quote (t8 @ Dec. 16 2012,09:53)

Quote (Stu @ Dec. 11 2012,20:54) Quote (t8 @ Dec. 11 2012,07:41) Quote (Stu @ Dec. 09 2012,23:39) That idea is that since no god believer has ever produced unambiguous evidence for his god claim, therefore it is a valid provisional conclusion that the god believer is deluded, and no gods really exist. That's not a faith-based belief that I hold because it is not based in evidence, it is a scientific conclusion based in the fact that there is no evidence. Let's swap the word 'God' for 'alien life'. That idea is that since an alien life believer has ever produced unambiguous evidence for this alien life claim, therefore it is a valid provisional conclusion that the alien life believer is deluded, and no alien life really exist. Okay people please feel free to show what else Stu doesn't believe in given his amazing robust thought process. So when people make earnest claims that aliens do exist and they can tell you what aliens do and don't do, you are prepared to have an open mind and accept that people might have such knowledge genuinely? Stuart Correct. It is possible that they may have come into contact with alien life as they say. I would never be so arrogant to say that they were absolutely wrong because I know that I am not all-knowing. However, in my mind I might believe that it was highly unlikely given my experience, but in the back of my mind, I also know that my experience is very small compared with all experiences that humanity has had. I think that much of what is called proof of alien existence or alien visitations can be explained in natural or historical terms. Likewise, much of what is considered to be of God is also just statistical probabilities.

Let's not equivocate over that “likewise”.

Let's be clear. What you are saying is:

“I think that much of what is called proof of alien existence or alien visitations can be explained in natural or historical terms. Likewise, much of what is considered to be of God can be explained in natural or historical terms”.

The question then remains, what “of god” cannot be explained in natural terms. I guess that would require a god believer to come up with an actual explanation in terms of a god.

Will miracles ever happen?

Stuart

[charity]

Quote (TimothyVI @ Dec. 16 2012,21:33)

Quote (t8 @ Dec. 16 2012,20:03) It is at least somewhat interesting observing how easy delusion sets in when a person cannot free themselves from bias and hence are not open to truth. That is very interesting indeed. Ti

i agree…very interesting.

I guess its narrow sight…The cause..systemised.

I always said. it going to Take someone That dosn't care what the truth is.. Big Bang Pride an see whats left..

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Stu @ Dec. 17 2012,03:04)

You've never explained why I should not expect a photograph. Stuart

A bit hard to photograph an eternal spirit.

Or try to imagine AI in cyberspace trying to photograph his programmer in real space.

Maybe try to understand that measuring an eternal anything with a finite piece of equipment is likely to be inadequate.

The only experiential proof you will ever get is if you decide to live for God. Until then, you will live without God and then die without him. Your choice. And my choice is to live for him. We are on different paths.

Even in your own bias and narrow mindedness, the universe itself is good enough proof. If AI were possible within cyberspace, then by all accounts it should know that cyberspace was created too, just by the pure fact that it was there. If not, then it would be as foolish as the man who says that there is no God. I mean it all just popped out of nothing. Magic.

[Stu]

Quote (t8 @ Dec. 26 2012,21:49)

Quote (Stu @ Dec. 17 2012,03:04) You've never explained why I should not expect a photograph. Stuart A bit hard to photograph an eternal spirit.

I've got no idea what an eternal spirit is, but can you actually explain why they can't be photographed, or are we just expected to take your word for it?

Stuart

[Wakeup]

Quote (Stu @ Dec. 29 2012,16:11)

Quote (t8 @ Dec. 26 2012,21:49) Quote (Stu @ Dec. 17 2012,03:04) You've never explained why I should not expect a photograph. Stuart A bit hard to photograph an eternal spirit. I've got no idea what an eternal spirit is, but can you actually explain why they can't be photographed, or are we just expected to take your word for it? Stuart

Stu.

Can you show us a photograph of the BIG BANG?

wakeup.

[charity]

your never willing to admit that the christian photo shop is more shocking than any theory that ever demanded to come alive as reality. Its easy to catapult the end into nowhere intending of-corse that shall be no end, it simply can not be seen in a lifetime.

The end that will be found at beginning is. if insane, all is in vain.

Let the Dust return to the earth an Shut up an let the Spirt return to God whom Gave it! those of whom love guessing by Faith!

[Proclaimer]

Charity, you never have anything good to say. You only tear down and never build up.
Why is your name Charity? Might be time to change it.

[terraricca]

I notice that skeptics feed on dead ,but true Christians feed on life,

dead mean ,everything that as hope in life ,while the true Christians feed to what ever scriptures says to obtain life by God ,

[Stu]

Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 30 2012,02:30)

Quote (Stu @ Dec. 29 2012,16:11) Quote (t8 @ Dec. 26 2012,21:49) Quote (Stu @ Dec. 17 2012,03:04) You've never explained why I should not expect a photograph. Stuart A bit hard to photograph an eternal spirit. I've got no idea what an eternal spirit is, but can you actually explain why they can't be photographed, or are we just expected to take your word for it? Stuart Stu. Can you show us a photograph of the BIG BANG? wakeup.

Stuart

[Stu]

Quote (t8 @ Jan. 07 2013,17:29)

Charity, you never have anything good to say. You only tear down and never build up. Why is your name Charity? Might be time to change it.

Charity isn't wearing a gas mask and carrying an assault weapon.

Stuart

[Proclaimer]

The reason you cannot photograph God is because he is a mind or consciousness and is not fully contained in any finite body, like us. Not even the universe can contain him.

I suggest that you google infinite and finite and do a bit of reading about these 2 words.

[Author]

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