Compond unity (the tri-unity of 4thomas)

[Ed J]

This thread is to explore 4Thomas' (Daniel's) view,
which he believes is expressed in the following post…  (*taken from here (Link))

Quote (4Thomas @ May 15 2013,17:15)

Compond unity, Tri-unity three seperate persons with the same nature. The Father is the Source of the *entire nature*,  but he expresses his glory and power. The Word of the Father is THE Son, the Breath of the Father is the Paraclete. Words can never be spoken without breath, try speaking or singing without using your breath. Psalm 33:6 By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, their starry host by the breath of his mouth. This makes it clear that the breath and the word of the Father are from Father the eternal Source of the complete divinity. There are many examples that show the Holy Spirit is the breath of God including the very word spirit that referrs to breath/wind.. Jesus discribes the Holy Spirit as wind and he breaths on the discples and says recieve the Holy Spirit to forgive sins [because people can't forgive sins it has to be done by the Holy Spirit], in the upper room when they again recieve power from the Holy Spirit again we see the spirit [wind] being expressed. Then we have the rib of man taken from adam to form eve, its amazing that eve is adams rib. Then in adam and eves love and relationship [intercourse] we have a third person YET in the SAME flesh that came from Adam. Then we have man and woemn who are each made up from a spirit and a body and when they unite the man becomes aliving soul. God dwells in the spirit, self dwells in the soul, while senses dwell in the body. the Soul has to decide whether to follow the flesh or the spirit man, a soul that is fill of pride will will follow the flesh and only the spirit man when it suits. Let me quote Watchman Nee from spirit man. He made his books free so they can be read on line in pdf form or the alike. The Word of God does not divide man into the two parts of soul and body. It treats man, rather, as tripartite—spirit, soul and body. 1 Thessalonians 5.23 reads: “May the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be kept sound and blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.” This verse precisely shows that the whole man is divided into three parts. The Apostle Paul refers here to the complete sanctification of believers, “sanctify you wholly.” According to the Apostle, how is a person wholly sanctified? By his spirit and soul and body being kept. From this we can easily understand that the whole person comprises these three parts. This verse also makes a distinction between spirit and soul; otherwise, Paul would have said simply “your soul.” Since God has distinguished the human spirit from the human soul, we conclude that man is composed of not two, but three, parts: spirit, soul and body. Other portions of the Scriptures make this same differentiation between spirit and soul. “For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and spirit, of joints and marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart” (Heb. 4.12). The writer in this verse divides man’s non-corporal elements into two parts, “soul and spirit.” The corporal part is mentioned here as including the joints and marrow—organs of motion and sensation. The Creation of Man “And Jehovah God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul” (Gen. 2.7 ASV). When God first created man He formed him of dust from the ground, and then breathed “the breath of life” into his nostrils. As soon as the breath of life, which became man’s spirit, came into contact with man’s body, the soul was produced. Hence the soul is the combination of man’s body and spirit. The Scriptures therefore call man “a living soul.” The breath of life became man’s spirit; that is, the principle of life within him. The Lord Jesus tells us “it is the spirit that gives life” (John 6.63). This breath of life comes from the Lord of Creation. However, we must not confuse man’s spirit with God’s Holy Spirit. The latter differs from our human spirit. Romans 8.16 demonstrates their difference by declaring that “it is the Spirit himself bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God.” The original of the word “life” in “breath of life” is chay and is in the plural. This may refer to the fact that the inbreathing of God produced a twofold life, soulical and spiritual. When the inbreathing of God entered man’s body it became the spirit of man; but when the spirit reacted with the body the soul was produced. This explains the source of our spiritual and soulical lives. We must recognize, though, that this spirit is not God’s Own life, for “the breath of the Almighty gives me life” (Job 33.4). It is not the entrance of the untreated life of God into man, neither is it that life of God which we receive at regeneration. What we receive at new birth is God’s Own life as typified by the tree of life. But our human spirit, though permanently existing, is void of “eternal life.” “Formed man of dust from the ground” refers to man’s body; “breathed into his nostrils the breath of life” refers to man’s spirit as it came from God; and “man became a living soul” refers to man’s soul when the body was quickened by the spirit and brought into being a living and self-conscious man. A complete man is a trinity—the composite of spirit, soul and body. According to Genesis 2.7, 28 The Spiritual Man man was made up of only two independent elements, the corporeal and the spiritual; but when God placed the spirit within the casing of the earth, the soul was produced. The spirit of man touching the dead body produced the soul. The body apart from the spirit was dead, but with the spirit man was made alive. The organ thus animated was called the soul. To repeat, the soul is the site of personality. The will, intellect and emotions of man are there. As the spirit is used to communicate with the spiritual world and the body with the natural world, so the soul stands between and exercises its power to discern and decide whether the spiritual or the natural world should reign. Sometimes too the soul itself takes control over man through its intellect, thus creating an ideational world which reigns. In order for the spirit to govern, the soul must give its consent; otherwise the spirit is helpless to regulate the soul and the body. But this decision is up to the soul, for therein resides the personality of the man. God’s thought is for the spirit to have the pre-eminence, ruling our soul. But once man turns fleshly his spirit sinks into servitude to the soul. Further degradation follows when man becomes “bodily” (of the body), for the basest body rises to be sovereign. Man has then descended from “spirit-control” to “soul-control,” and from “soul-control” to “body-control.” Deeper and deeper he sinks. How pitiful it must be when the flesh gains dominion. Sin has slain the spirit: spiritual death hence becomes the portion of all, for all are dead in sins and trespasses. Sin has rendered the soul independent: the soulish life is therefore but a selfish and self-willed one. Sin has finally empowered the body: sinful nature accordingly reigns through the body. What really is d eath? According to its scientific definition, death is “the cessation of communication with environment.” Death of the spirit is the cessation of its communication with God. Death of the body is the cutting off of communication between spirit and body. So when we say the spirit is dead it does not imply there is no more spirit; we simply mean the spirit has lost its sensitivity towards God and thus is dead to Him. God dwells in the spirit, self dwells in the soul, while senses dwell in the body. 1 Corinthians 2.14 speaks of such unregenerated persons in this fashion: “The natural (soulish) man does not receive the gifts of the spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.” Such men as are under the control of their souls with their spirits suppressed are in direct contrast to spiritual people. They may be exceedingly intelligent, able to present masterful ideas or theories, yet they do not consent to the things of the Spirit of God. They are unfit to receive revelation from the Holy Spirit. Such revelation is vastly different from human ideas. Man may think human intellect and reasoning are almighty, that the brain is able to comprehend all truths of the world; but the verdict of God’s Word is, “vanity of vanities.” While man is in his soulish state he frequently senses the insecurity of this age and so he too seeks the eternal life of the coming age. But even if he does, he is still powerless to uncover the Word of life by his much thinking and theorizing. How untrustworthy are human reasonings! We often observe how very clever persons clash in their different opinions. Theories easily lead man into error. They are castles in the air, tumbling him into eternal darkness. How true it is that without the guidance of the Holy Spirit intellect not only is undependable but also extremely dangerous, because it often confuses the issue of right and wrong. A slight carelessness may cause not merely temporary loss but even everlasting harm. The darkened mind of man frequently leads him to eternal death. If only unregenerated souls could see this, how good it would be!   While man is fleshly he may be controlled by more than just the soul; he may be under the direction of the body as well; for soul and body are closely entwined. Because the body of sin is abounding in desires and passions, man may commit the most hideous of sins. As the body is formed of the dust, so its natural tendency is towards the earth. The introduction of the serpent’s poison into man’s body turns all its legitimate desires into lusts. Having once yielded to the body in disobeying God, the soul finds itself bound to yield every time. The base desires of the body may therefore often be expressed through the soul. The power of the body becomes so overwhelming that the soul cannot but become the obedient slave. God’s thought is for the spirit to have the pre-eminence, ruling our soul. But once man turns fleshly his spirit sinks into servitude to the soul. Further degradation follows when man becomes “bodily” (of the body), for the basest body rises to be sovereign. Man has then descended from “spirit-control” to “soul-control,” and from “soul-control” to “body-control.” Deeper and deeper he sinks. How pitiful it must be when the flesh gains dominion. Sin has slain the spirit: spiritual death hence becomes the portion of all, for all are dead in sins and trespasses. Sin has rendered the soul independent: the soulish life is therefore but a selfish and self-willed one. Sin has finally empowered the body: sinful nature accordingly reigns through the body. The soul must decide whether it is to obey the spirit and hence be united with God and His will or is to yield to the body and all the temptations of the material world. On the occasion of man’s fall the soul resisted the spirit’s authority and became enslaved to the body and its passions. Thus man became a fleshly, not a spiritual, man. Man’s spirit was denied its noble position and was reduced to that of a prisoner. Since the soul is now under the power of the flesh, the Bible deems man to be fleshly or carnal. Whatever is soulical has become fleshly. end quote there is heaps more its a series of volumes and looks at all the scriptures. I think hell is where the body is destoryed which also destroys the soul which leaves a spirit that is cast into the lake of fire with satan. I think God doesn't allow the man to remain as Body Soul and Spirit unless he loves him. Blessings Daniel

Daniel, I wish to ask you some questions to help clarify
why you believe the way you do, is this OK with you?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

* Reason for edit: To add link to original post

[Ed J]

Quote (4Thomas @ May 15 2013,17:15)

Compond unity, Tri-unity three seperate persons with the same nature. The Father is the Source of the *entire nature*,  (1)but he expresses his glory and power. (2)The Word of the Father is THE Son, the Breath of the Father is the Paraclete. Words can never be spoken without breath, try speaking or singing without using your breath. (3)Psalm 33:6 By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, their starry host by the breath of his mouth. Blessings Daniel

Hi Daniel,

Point #1. (A)Are you suggesting that God's “Glory” was first expressed in Jesus?
(B)And are you suggesting that God's “Power” is expressed through the HolySpirit?

Point #2. (A) God's breath is the divine Paraclete, which is “God's HolySpirit” – agreed!
(B) What makes you believe “The Word” OF God, is not God's? (2B needs to be discussed)

Point #3. “The Word” of the LORD   AND  “The Breath” of the LORD are “BOTH” God's HolySpirit.

I wish to explore these three points. Plus I have more questions which will come out during disclosure.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[4Thomas]

Quote (Ed J @ May 15 2013,20:26)

Quote (4Thomas @ May 15 2013,17:15) Compond unity, Tri-unity three seperate persons with the same nature. The Father is the Source of the *entire nature*,  (1)but he expresses his glory and power. (2)The Word of the Father is THE Son, the Breath of the Father is the Paraclete. Words can never be spoken without breath, try speaking or singing without using your breath. (3)Psalm 33:6 By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, their starry host by the breath of his mouth. Blessings Daniel Hi Daniel, Point #1. (A)Are you suggesting that God's “Glory” was first expressed in Jesus? (B)And are you suggesting that God's “Power” is expressed through the HolySpirit? Point #2. (A) God's breath is the divine Paraclete, which is “God's HolySpirit” – agreed! (B) What makes you believe “The Word” OF God, is not God's? (2B needs to be discussed) Point #3. “The Word” of the LORD   AND  “The Breath” of the LORD are “BOTH” God's HolySpirit. I wish to explore these three points. Plus I have more questions which will come out during disclosure. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Hi Ed,
I believe scripture goes explains the Father Son and Holy Spirit in many different ways as follows. the Son is alwasy the expression of the Father and the Holy Spirit is always the relationship between that expression and that source.

1: Adam, his substance is Eve and in their relationship/love expressed life is expressed in a third person (the child) Yet all Humanity came from Adam but still eve and the child are human

2: Man's Spirit Soul and Body
Yahweh created a body that was formed but not alive, Gods created the spirit of man (adam) and when that spirit joint to the body the man became a living soul.

3: Scripture is clear Jesus is the expressed image and has the exact same substance as the Father.
I believe the Father is eternal so he expresses his glory eternally. yet his glory is almighty is nature so it can't be disapated, the Fathers expressed glory is his Son. the Son doesn't then express his glory because he is not a Father and he is the Glory of the Father.
Just like eve is the same nature as adam and came from adam but is not another adam
So THE Son is the same nature as the Father and came from the Father but is not another Father.

I believe God the father is a eternal almightly creator for all eternity his power and his glory has been testified in his eternal Son.

The testiment of the Father is the Son.
Just like the women is the reciprocal image of man
So the Son is the reciprocol image of the Father

True love between man and woman is reciprocal giving
= the Child

True love between the Father and Son is reciprocal giving
= The Paraclete (The Holy Spirit)

So “the” Word expresses the Father
So the breath expresses that relationship between the father and his Word.

Sorry have other commentiments and cant spend to much time on this.

Life in the Son and in his name
Daniel

[Ed J]

Hi Daniel,

Just exactly how do you figure that the “HolySpirit” is
(according to you) a separate person from “God”?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[4Thomas]

Quote (Ed J @ June 03 2013,19:56)

Hi Daniel, Just exactly how do you figure that the “HolySpirit” is (according to you) a separate person from “God”? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Hi Ed,
I can with scripture, and will do for you, Sorry, just now I have other commitments with Mike.
Please make sure you remind me as I want to show you what I have. There are many scriptures that can't be answered if you do not believe the Holy Spirit is a person, I will list these when I have time.

Scripture teaches he is invisable, he is like light that can only be seen when it reflects on something, scripture is clear he is not the Father or the Son, but where he is both the Father and Son are present.

John 14:17
the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

Ed do you believe Jesus “the Word” existed before Abraham?
Just so I know what do you believe regarding the Father Son and Holy Spirit. What and who are they to you please.

Will talk at a latter date.

Life in the Son and in his name
Daniel

[Ed J]

Quote (4Thomas @ June 04 2013,11:38)

Hi Ed, (1) Scripture teaches he is invisable, he is like light that can only be seen when it reflects on something, scripture is clear he is not the Father or the Son, but where he is both the Father and Son are present. John 14:17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. (2) Ed do you believe Jesus “the Word” existed before Abraham? (3)Just so I know what do you believe regarding the Father Son and Holy Spirit. What and who are they to you please. Will talk at a latter date. Life in the Son and in his name Daniel

Hi Daniel,

I thought this thread was about you telling me what you believe.
But OK, I will reciprocate if that is what you really want.

1. I believe the HolySpirit is YHVH's own spirit,
just like the spirit of Christ is Jesus' own spirit.

    “GOD is Holy” (Lev.11:45)
    + “GOD is Spirit” (John 4:24)
    = “GOD is HolySpirit” (Acts 5:3-4)

2. “The Word” was(/is) GOD. (John 1:1)
    + The “HolySpirit” is GOD. (Acts 5:3-4)
    = “The Word” is HolySpirit. (Eph. 6:17)

3. See next post.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Hi Daniel,

3. In math you can't have 200%? (Matthew 1:18 / Matthew 1:20 / Luke 1:35) (Luke 10:30-37)

                        Jesus lineage explained

“Son of Man”: 25%; Mary's mother's lineage was of the tribe of Levi. (Luke 1:5, 1:36)
“Son of Man”: 25%: Mary's father's lineage was (Judah) through Nathan(son of David). (Luke 3:23-31)
“Son of God”: 50%: Jesus' Father was the “HolySpirit”; NOT Joseph! (Mathew 1:18 / Mathew 1:20 / Luke 1:35)

At birth: Jesus was 50% HolySpirit(God) (Matt.1:18 / Matt.1:20 / Luke 1:35), and 25% Levite(Priest) and 25% Judah(King)!
At baptism by John the baptizer, Jesus was filled with the HolySpirit(God) beyond measure! (John 3:34 / John 1:14)

Here is why Jesus is called both the “Son of Man” and the “Son of God”:

                   Mother         Father
                    Mary         HolySpirit
                     50%           50%
                         \              /
                           \          /
                             Jesus
                            /        \
                          /            \        
                        /                \
              Son of Man     Son of God
             (Mark 6:3)        (Luke 1:35)

Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)

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