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Yes nate,
But the “apple” looks pearshaped from where I sit. And it smells like a pear and tastes like a pear. I guess you would want us to agree it is a “Nashi”!
Seriously though, I agree nate. It is better to continue to talk in the real hope that we might eventually really start communicating as that is what a forum is about.excellent… all the better in fact, because i prefer nashi to apples any day (except in fruit juice)…
i've been trying to make “do unto others as you'd have them do to you” my philosophy lately… and it's really difficult!!
it means giving up my pride, and saying, all that i want out of this situation, i'm giving to you (for me, the clincher is being “right”)… and believing that god is in control, not us…
i think i've mentioned my experience with “love casts out fear” ?? and this is another example… i think it's fear that we won't be in control of situations (as well as pride) which stops us from “doing unto others…” but if we have faith in god, and love our brother, this fear will decrease – especially as habit shows us that we don't need to be in control…
in effect, we are dying to ourselves, but not through our own strength (which i know from experience is impossible), but through love…
what do you think?
cheers,
nate.
I agree,
But I also feel we have to give others time to reach their own conclusions. I feel the wind of the Spirit blows through us in many ways and blows away cobwebs and suddenly we realise what we thought we knew aint so clear anymore but what we didnt grasp seems crystal clear. we can argue till the cows come home but it is only when the Spirit gets through that the knowledge goes from the brain down into the heart. That is not to say we shouldn't share stuff because if we never hear the truth then we can't really learn. I may hear something today but it may only fit into the jigsaw puzzle in a couple of years time. The old jigsaw really does remind me of truth as the more we can learn the more it makes a pattern. But a piece we find may seem odd for sometime till we can finally place it.
I can understand why Jesus was so excited when he said to Peter” Blessed are you Simon, son of Jonah. No mere man has revealed this to you but my heavenly Father”
We should never be ashamed to ponder these things in our hearts-as Mary did-before we rush to print on our final conclusions.yeh absolutely…
i remember some friends of mine (a quirky married middle-aged couple with a roving itinerate ministry) telling me stuff years ago, which i'm only now beginning to comprehend… funnily enough, i thought what they were saying was basic christianity, and treat them kind of condescendingly, but they always showed love… now it seems that what they were saying are the most important things i'm learning, and i feel dreadfully ashamed of the way i've treated them…
oh well… i guess as long as we learn from our mistakes there's hope…
…it's funny how peter realises by the spirit of god who jesus is, but in the next instant tries to fit that revelation into his preconceived ideas of the messiah, hey?
Yes , it was only the first leaf appearing above ground but it also meant Jesus could deal with him straight as he had the Spirit within to comfort and strengthen him.
have you noticed that this is the only occassion in the gospels where a disciple actually indicates an understanding of something jesus has said… whenever jesus is telling parables, they misunderstand or completely miss the point… but at the end, jesus entrusts the future to them, knowing that the holy spirit will lead them into all truth…
i remember someone (one of those friends i mentioned earlier) once saying, when paul and barnabas went on their mission trips, they only preached jesus… afterwards they would write and correct any false doctrines which had sprouted up, but for the most part, they entrusted the new believers to the holy spirit… well, i'm not sure if this was exactly the case, but i think it might be, as paul says – one man plants another waters, but god brings forth the yield…
again, i think that this is very difficult because we like to be in control of situations… what farmer plants a field and then moves on to plant more fields trusting that someone else will come along to water… but this seems to be what paul is suggesting… what do you think?
absolutely nate. The eunuch whom Philip met is a good example. But was the church in better shape then than now? too right. God will build His church and Jesus will lead it if only we would let Him.
Guess who messed up the playpen.
Men
hey nick,
yeh… i think there was an innocence in the early church, and a greater willingness to be guided by the holy spirit… doctrine has since become so firm (though certainly not unifying), and so i think people become, to some extent, indoctrinated rather than liberated…
again, i think, love is the key to breaking this cycle… i think love accepts people as they are, but also hopes and encourages them to pursue truth…
what do you think?
nate.
Hey nate,
in a way. If we are seen by others as having something special that makes us loving.. yes. But love has to lead to a goal-salvation for as many as want it. Just being a love supermarket means we just minister love to those awaiting God's judgement.It does good for us but does it help them?
As Peter says
” Should anyone ask you the reason for this hope of yours be ever ready to reply, but speak gently and respectfully”
So let love be a light on a hilltop ..so it attracts others to Jesus…so they may come to salvation too.absolutely…
but a light on a hill doesn't insist that people come to it… it shines, and those that are drawn to the light come… and wisdom calls out in the streets, but only those who are searching for wisdom are drawn… yet still, i think we should continue to show our love for people regardless of whether they're drawn by that love or not… and if they are, it isn't to us that they're drawn, but to god…
what do you think?
yeh…
i can think of two reasons why they wouldn't:
1) they aren't searching for truth…
2) our light isn't the light of truth…
but there could be other reasons… regardless of which, i think we should continue to love… and not give up, and not get angry…
thomas merton, a maronite from the 50's and 60's wrote an essay about the beattitudes, suggesting that they're different aspects of love, ie. meekness, peacemaking, thirst for justice, and so on… what do you think of this interpretation?
Hi nate,
The reason most people do not come to the light of truth is that they are not searching as you say. Yes others should judge the light in us too. Some don't respond because they think they have the light. Some have recived another Jesus or another gospel and the true one seems evil to them.
Jesus said
” make sure the light in you is not darkness for o how deep that darkness can be”
Thomas Merton is a catholic philosopher or theologian and, so by definition, cannot speak the full truth as he never heard and responded to it or he would have left that false church.
The chapter 5 of Matthew is about the ways of the kingdom of heaven [mentioned 4 times] educating those who have responded to the messsage of salvation and so expositions by those still of the world and not of that kingdom do not appeal.These teachings are for the church and not the world.Love is the way of the kingdom sharing that which is given us to all.
hey nick,
i'm not sure how to respond to this… ??
should we disregard a suggestion just because we disagree with the source?
you yourself said that the beatitudes are about the ways of the kingdom, and also that love is the way of the kingdom… so we could assume that the beatitudes are the way of love… in which case merton was speaking a truth, and if truth can only come from god, how can we deny the legitimacy of the source (or at least not consider it)?
it saddens me to hear catholics damned based on their choice of fellowship… is the protestant church any better? are the charismatic and pentecostal churches more truthful? are any of these greater in the eyes of god?
please nick, i ask you to try and take people as individuals… not as representatives of the fellowship they attend…
Hi nate,
The point I make is that the traditional churches do not offer the salvation offered by Jesus. So what else is useful for them to do? The Lord has used a donkey to speak before today so anyone can say useful things but I would not first approach a donkey or a traditional theologian if I wanted to know about bible truth. I would likely learn more studying a flower or looking at the stars. Do you see what I am getting at?i see what you're saying… but… hehe…
do you see the church as means of salvation, or as the means of fellowship?
i think that god looks down on “churches” and sees those who are his and those who aren't… those who are his are “the church” those who aren't just belong to an institution… a social club… i don't see a church creed as the basis for individual faith, and i don't see individual faith as a basis for church creeds… i don't think they're necessarily mutually exclusive, but i definitely don't think they're mutually inclusive…
so when i mention thomas merton, or francis of assissi, i'm not talking about the catholic person of st francis, or merton, but the individual who wrote something which i believe was inspired of god… whether the rest of what they wrote, said or did was inspired of god isn't really important to me, except as a background to understanding what they mean…
do you understand what i'm saying?
Hi,
Fellowship must first be with God surely. Does every denomination fellowship with God? Can anyone approach the throne of grace without going through the gate? Should we accept leadership from those who have not gone through the gate?
Worship is primarily private and fellowship is for those of like minds and hearts. If not then why meet? Is ritualistic meeting valuable to man or God?
It is possible to meet with others in fellowship without being aware of their relationships with God and never sharing things of faith. Who does that help or does it just meet our personal lonliness and insecurity needs? Does the worship or prayer of unbelievers benefit them or reach our God if they do not recognise our God as He has revealed Himself?
True fellowship involves breaking bread and sharing the cup with those who we accept are saved and for whom we should be prepared to die. Should we break bread with those who are not in fellowsihp with God?…so you don't understand what i'm saying… ??
nick… your questions indicate that you haven't understood what i'm saying…
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