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Hi all
I have started this new topic to move away the ‘disproving one another’ method, as I see the the many varied views within each topic doesn’t seem to allow a reasonable conclusioin being found.
If we can all find the biblical points where we agree on, then we can move on to the ‘how’ and ‘why’ there are points where we each differ, with the emphasis on allowing the Word of God to speak the truth, rather than our own supposed truth.
I’m not too sure what the best way is to go about this, so I will just start by putting across the subject of ‘A description of what God is’ and then when we feel that an agreeable conclusion has been reached, I will then move on to ‘The first of all and the most important commandment of all’.
This will only be fruitful if we all remain humble and open to being reproved and corrected if needed.
Much thanks to all those who take part.
Does everyone agree that this is a simple biblical desription of God?
The only Eternal, Immortal, Invisible, Sprirt, that inhabits all of creation. Omnipresent, Omnipotent, Omniscient and Unchanging.
I would also like to point out an intersting fact that t8 reminded me of. God is greater than creation. I will allow t8 to expound on this fact if he wishes.
Thanks again to all those who participate.
As quoted in the trinity discussion, yes I agree with that description and as GJG pointed out, I did mention that God also exists outside creation too. He is bigger than creation and he could exist as thought or conciousness outside creation. Perhaps Spirit is the way he is manifested in creation.
Hi,
Theological derived terms are really not that helpful when describing the things of God. We are safe only if we use scripture to prove what able to be known.
Our natural thoughts can never encompass God any more than a newborn baby can draw conclusions about it's parents.For example
Omniscient
We only know at best what can be known. We can not know what we do not know. So how can we define what God knows?
Omnipotent.
We do not know how much power there is so how can we define the Power of God? The word infinite does not help either as we cannot grasp it's meaning either.
Omnipresent
We do not know the extent of created and uncreated being so how can we define God's abilities in this way either.These terms are all limited by our almost total ignorance so do they add anything by using them?
We can only know about God and His creation by what He has chosen to let us know in the Word so we need to use only those facts for the rest is vanity surely?
ps God's creation also reveals His nature and abilities. Jesus said to consider the lilies of the field,or sparrows, or the fig tree. He spoke of seeds and plants, trees, fish leaves and fruit. They are parables about God too.
hey guys,
yeh, i like to understand god in relation to his creation…
every plant and animal is different, even those of the same species have vast differences – looks, colouring, “fingerprint”…
i don't think that this is an accident… god could have made us so that each one was a clone of their parents, but he chose not to… this indicates to me that god appreciates the richness of individuality… (of course this is only one aspect of god)
what do you think?
cheers,
nate.
Hi nate,
Indeed nate. In fact there is another message in nature
Rom 1.19 “for that which is known about God is evident within them;for God made it evident to them. For since ths creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made , so that they are without excuse”
So God expects us to know about Him through nature… So that we will find the narrow road.hey nick,
one would suppose, then, that those who have never heard the gospel, would be judged according to whether they lived by the imprint of the gospel in their hearts and as they saw it in the world…
similarly, those who have heard and rejected “false” gospels (ie, when jesus is preached, but not the true jesus), would not be judged by their rejection of the gospel, but again, by their steadfastness to the gospel in evidence around them…
in this way, people could be following jesus (by following the narrow path), yet not realise that they are truly following him… would this be a reasonable assumption? (i have no doubt that it's not a popular one, hehe.)
cheers,
nate.
Well nate almost,
The gospel of Jesus was about being born again . You cannot be born again without being born again….
.. of water and the Spirit.No the way for those who do not hear the gospel in according to conscience and the Law. As Rom 2.14-16 tells us all whose behavior shows that their conscience is in accord with the Law will be saved by the Law as I read it.
but what of those who aren't under the law of moses?
do you think it impossible that a person could live according to the law of love (the law of christ) without actually hearing the gospel?
That is what the bible says nate and I won't argue.
The Law of love is the Law of the OT.
Jesus just summarised it into two laws.The new law he brought was different.
It was to “Love one another as I have loved you”
In other words be prepared to die for your brothers in the body of Christ…ah well… perhaps we're moving a bit off track…
i wonder if this really is the best way to seek truth… ??
i don't understand why we need to agree? what if we just said what we believe and why we believe it, and tried to glean truth from what each one thinks… ??
i really think that if we're honestly seeking truth we'll recognise it when it presents itself, if not, no amount of argument is going to make us believe…
any thoughts?
cheers,
nate.
Quote (Guest @ Nov. 26 2004,21:23) yeh, i like to understand god in relation to his creation… every plant and animal is different, even those of the same species have vast differences – looks, colouring, “fingerprint”…
True Nate.I think creation reflects what God is like. Colour, sunsets, water, trees, mountains, planets, suns, galaxies and animals all declare God's glory.
Even snow exemplifies God's personality quite well. Every snow particle is a unique 6 sided shape. No 2 are alike and the vast majority go unnoticed by us. Only a minute amount is ever viewed under a microscope to reveal this beautiful treasure.
Job 38:22
Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail,
Quote (Guest @ Nov. 26 2004,22:32) but what of those who aren't under the law of moses? do you think it impossible that a person could live according to the law of love (the law of christ) without actually hearing the gospel?
Hi Nate,I tackled this one in the following writing:
https://heavennet.net/answers/answer11.htmIt covers the gospel, the law and conscience. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong on any point.
Here is a quote from it:
Now we know from the scriptures that Jesus death paid the penalty for all people who have ever lived, to those that receive him. However those who are NOT saved are those who have rejected God in the following ways:
- those who understand the Gospel and reject it,
- those under the Law who reject it, (Note that those Jews who believe in Jesus do not reject the law, they fulfill the law),
- those who rebel against their conscience.
Those without knowledge of the Gospel and the Law are judged by their conscience. If they reject their conscience then they have rebelled against their creator who gave us all the knowledge of right and wrong.
Conscience = con science
con = with
science = knowledge.
So Conscience = With Knowledge
Conscience is actually the Law written in our hearts.
Romans 2:15 (English-NIV) says
since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.
Please note that we are not justified by the Law or by Conscience, but through Jesus Christ alone. Only he can present us to the Father, holy and blameless. But to say that only those who have accepted the gospel are saved is also wrong. God saves many people out of mercy alone. The difference is that those who have accepted the true gospel are assured of their salvation. It is guaranteed.
Ephesians 1:13 (English-NIV)
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession, to the praise of his glory.
No where in the Bible does it say those who have never heard the Gospel are damned. Or those who are without Law are damned. Abraham never heard the Gospel, yet he had faith. Aborted children haven't heard the gospel, yet does God condemn them? Remember that God is merciful and he chooses whom he will save.
