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I invite any member to discuss here and ask questions.
The Hot Seat has the feature that a must answered question is just that. Usually, there is one open must answer question at a time. Unless the person on the Hot Seat is happy to have more than one. I will start not with a question, but a copy of a post I made in another topic. Questions can start after that.Okay Colter. So you disregard the scriptures as being altered beyond truth and put your trust instead in the 1924 Urantia revelation. Further, you believe as taught in the Urantia, the Trinity when it is actually very easy to prove that the Trinity is a false doctrine devised by man when compared with scripture (which you would disregard) and from a historical point of view also.
Seems no different to all other cults to me. They seem to have their own book in common to take you away from scripture and toward their invented view. e.g.,
Moonies -> Divine Priniples
JWs -> Watchtower
Mormons -> Book of Mormon
Atheists -> The Origin Of The Species
Catholics -> The Athanasian CreedThey are all cults built around persons who are not Christ. I put your Urantia revelation in that group too. Of course the list above is not exhaustive but a snippet of what is out there. And they usually claim to be right at the expense of all others. Statistically speaking, if one of them was right, then you have chosen the wrong one.
Questions to follow.
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 14 2013,10:08) Okay Colter. So you disregard the scriptures as being altered beyond truth and put your trust instead in the 1924 Urantia revelation. Further, you believe as taught in the Urantia, the Trinity when it is actually very easy to prove that the Trinity is a false doctrine devised by man when compared with scripture (which you would disregard) and from a historical point of view also. Seems no different to all other cults to me. They seem to have their own book in common to take you away from scripture and toward their invented view. e.g.,
Moonies -> Divine Priniples
JWs -> Watchtower
Mormons -> Book of Mormon
Atheists -> The Origin Of The Species
Catholics -> The Athanasian CreedThey are all cults built around persons who are not Christ. I put your Urantia revelation in that group too. Of course the list above is not exhaustive but a snippet of what is out there. And they usually claim to be right at the expense of all others. Statistically speaking, if one of them was right, then you have chosen the wrong one.
Questions to follow.
What is the question?BTW, Jesus was ALSO considered a cult leader and the religious people, or self proclaimed “chosen people” who thought they had the only right way, ALSO hid behind the scripture in order to reject Jesus and his cult following.
The Jesus story was and still is rejected by Judaism, however the Pagan world was already familiar with such a story as the one ABOUT Jesus so they the Roman Mysteries simply merged with Paul's version of Jesus gospel.
So what are your questions?
Colter
Questions to follow.
But to answer what you asked.
Jesus was also a cult figure, but he was also right.
Another cult that disagrees with his words would make it wrong.Jesus also spoke and it happened. He demonstrated that he was from God.
What of those who belong to other cults.In the end, we will put our trust in someone and something.
If not Christ, then someone or something else.It is still possible that even if a person claims that Jesus is the Christ, that they can still deceive many. Islam believes that Jesus is the Christ for example.
My first question. BTW, you too can ask must answer questions back.
1) Of all the cults that claim to have the truth about Jesus, do you see that the Urantia as one of many thousands, and on the outset, by subscribing to it you are taking a one in a thousand/ten thousand/hundred thousand punt regarding what the truth is?
A) Yes
B) NoPlease explain your answer.
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 14 2013,11:11) It is still possible that even if a person claims that Jesus is the Christ, that they can still deceive many. Islam believes that Jesus is the Christ for example.
Belief fixates, faith liberates. On one occasion, during the ministry of Jesus, someone was baptizing and teaching in Jesus’ name but was not an apostle. The boys roughed him up but Jesus said: Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.
So yes, one could teach unorthodox doctrines even outside the church yet lead people to the Kingdom…..according to Jesus.Yet some people can have a relationship with dogma or doctrine yet not have a spiritual relationship with the presence of Jesus: “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
Colter
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 14 2013,11:15) My first question. BTW, you too can ask must answer questions back. 1) Of all the cults that claim to have the truth about Jesus, do you see that the Urantia as one of many thousands, and on the outset, by subscribing to it you are taking a one in a thousand/ten thousand/hundred thousand punt regarding what the truth is?
A) Yes
B) NoPlease explain your answer.
The Urantia book claims to be the 5th epochal revlation to our world who's heavenly name is Urantia. Jesus was the 4th, Melchizedek the 3rd, Adam & Eve the 2nd and the “planitary prince (who fell into sin) the 1st.The UB does not claim to be the only truth and it has not authoritative structure, the book was placed in a trust, readers meet in groups for study.
So the answer is no
Colter
My question for you t8 is, do you see the retrospective conclusions and historical world view of “The First Council of Nicaea” as binding and infallible?
Yes
No
If your answer is no and the conclusions of the priest class of the “Councils” are imperfect, then why do you believe the conclusions and historical world view of the Hebrew priest retrospectives to be binding and infallible?
Colter
Quote (Colter @ Mar. 14 2013,11:56) My question for you t8 is, do you see the retrospective conclusions and historical world view of “The First Council of Nicaea” as binding and infallible? Yes
No
If your answer is no and the conclusions of the priest class of the “Councils” are imperfect, then why do you believe the conclusions and historical world view of the Hebrew priest retrospectives to be binding and infallible?
Colter
Hi Coulter,What planet are you from?
Quote (Colter @ Mar. 14 2013,11:56) My question for you t8 is, do you see the retrospective conclusions and historical world view of “The First Council of Nicaea” as binding and infallible? Yes
No
If your answer is no and the conclusions of the priest class of the “Councils” are imperfect, then why do you believe the conclusions and historical world view of the Hebrew priest retrospectives to be binding and infallible?
Colter
I cannot answer for t8, but am sure he would answer “no,” and a possible reason he would give is because the council of Nicea claimed to represent and carry on Christianity, but their actions and beliefs did not match up with their predecessors, who were “no part of the world,” who were the persecuted, not the persecutees, who fortold there would be an apostasy and deviation from Jesus' teachings, which I think is born out by comparing what the council of Nicea believed with what they were supposedly basing their beliefs on–the bible.Whereas I believe he would say that the bible is binding and infallible because of the usual reasons given–prophesy, history, etc.
Quote (david @ Mar. 14 2013,17:23) Quote (Colter @ Mar. 14 2013,11:56) My question for you t8 is, do you see the retrospective conclusions and historical world view of “The First Council of Nicaea” as binding and infallible? Yes
No
If your answer is no and the conclusions of the priest class of the “Councils” are imperfect, then why do you believe the conclusions and historical world view of the Hebrew priest retrospectives to be binding and infallible?
Colter
I cannot answer for t8, but am sure he would answer “no,” and a possible reason he would give is because the council of Nicea claimed to represent and carry on Christianity, but their actions and beliefs did not match up with their predecessors, who were “no part of the world,” who were the persecuted, not the persecutees, who fortold there would be an apostasy and deviation from Jesus' teachings, which I think is born out by comparing what the council of Nicea believed with what they were supposedly basing their beliefs on–the bible.Whereas I believe he would say that the bible is binding and infallible because of the usual reasons given–prophesy, history, etc.
Colter.You claim to worship God and Jesus,but your spirit is against God.
Jesus said '' THIS GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM SHALL BE PREACHED IN ALL THE EARTH,AND THE END WILL COME''.
You are not preaching the gospel,but some other gospel called the gospel of urantia.
You are not serving Jesus, but some other master,or
masters. serving many gods,with strange names.Mathew,Mark, Luke and John I know; urantia is a wolf in sheep clothing,coming to devour the vulnerable.
wakeup.
wakeup.
Quote (david @ Mar. 14 2013,17:23) Quote (Colter @ Mar. 14 2013,11:56) My question for you t8 is, do you see the retrospective conclusions and historical world view of “The First Council of Nicaea” as binding and infallible? Yes
No
If your answer is no and the conclusions of the priest class of the “Councils” are imperfect, then why do you believe the conclusions and historical world view of the Hebrew priest retrospectives to be binding and infallible?
Colter
I cannot answer for t8, but am sure he would answer “no,” and a possible reason he would give is because the council of Nicea claimed to represent and carry on Christianity, but their actions and beliefs did not match up with their predecessors, who were “no part of the world,” who were the persecuted, not the persecutees, who fortold there would be an apostasy and deviation from Jesus' teachings, which I think is born out by comparing what the council of Nicea believed with what they were supposedly basing their beliefs on–the bible.Whereas I believe he would say that the bible is binding and infallible because of the usual reasons given–prophesy, history, etc.
Hi David,I should have been more clear, the pretentious Hebrew history of the OT books represents many layers of history, many “councils” if you will, decisions made by the same sort of imperfect men as within the priest class of the RCC or any other religious institution.
Contemporary scholars can see evidence of editing and redaction within the OT books. Multiple authors, sometimes within one page.
So, why is the elite priest class of the RCC so much more obviously flawed while you see those who, even persecuted the prophets, as infallible in their histories?
I contend that to have the kind of living faith in the unseen God that Jesus taught us to have may seem more insecure and uncertain, so people revert back to “fetish worship” of relics and books in Christendom in the same way that Moses's post exile pupils reverted back to the idol of the golden calf.
The Word is real, it's living, God is a real personality reality, loving and approachable by the simplest of men and women.
Colter
Quote (Wakeup @ Mar. 14 2013,18:34) Quote (david @ Mar. 14 2013,17:23) Quote (Colter @ Mar. 14 2013,11:56) My question for you t8 is, do you see the retrospective conclusions and historical world view of “The First Council of Nicaea” as binding and infallible? Yes
No
If your answer is no and the conclusions of the priest class of the “Councils” are imperfect, then why do you believe the conclusions and historical world view of the Hebrew priest retrospectives to be binding and infallible?
Colter
I cannot answer for t8, but am sure he would answer “no,” and a possible reason he would give is because the council of Nicea claimed to represent and carry on Christianity, but their actions and beliefs did not match up with their predecessors, who were “no part of the world,” who were the persecuted, not the persecutees, who fortold there would be an apostasy and deviation from Jesus' teachings, which I think is born out by comparing what the council of Nicea believed with what they were supposedly basing their beliefs on–the bible.Whereas I believe he would say that the bible is binding and infallible because of the usual reasons given–prophesy, history, etc.
Colter.You claim to worship God and Jesus,but your spirit is against God.
Jesus said '' THIS GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM SHALL BE PREACHED IN ALL THE EARTH,AND THE END WILL COME''.
You are not preaching the gospel,but some other gospel called the gospel of urantia.
You are not serving Jesus, but some other master,or
masters. serving many gods,with strange names.Mathew,Mark, Luke and John I know; urantia is a wolf in sheep clothing,coming to devour the vulnerable.
wakeup.
wakeup.
You have nothing to fear, your Lord, Jesus Christ has sent his life story once again to this world at this critical time in history.You bitterly hate me as the messengers of Jesus were hated and even killed! You think you are doing Gods will to reject me and the Urantia revelation (which you have not read).
Jesus:
“They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, the time is coming when anyone who kills you will think they are offering a service to God.”
Go ahead Wakeup, be the protector of doctrines rather then a seeker of truth.
Colter
Quote (journey42 @ Mar. 14 2013,15:43) Quote (Colter @ Mar. 14 2013,11:56) My question for you t8 is, do you see the retrospective conclusions and historical world view of “The First Council of Nicaea” as binding and infallible? Yes
No
If your answer is no and the conclusions of the priest class of the “Councils” are imperfect, then why do you believe the conclusions and historical world view of the Hebrew priest retrospectives to be binding and infallible?
Colter
Hi Coulter,What planet are you from?
I was born on Earth “Urantia”, I am finite, potentially eternal.The eternal “Christ Michael” resides on Salvington, he came down from there and returned to his rightful place on high.
Upon the resurrection we will awake on one of the many mansion worlds as we experimentally journey inward, beyond Christ Michael and to the Father.
Colter
Quote (Colter @ Mar. 14 2013,21:18) I was born on Earth “Urantia”, I am finite, potentially eternal. The eternal “Christ Michael” resides on Salvington, he came down from there and returned to his rightful place on high.
Upon the resurrection we will awake on one of the many mansion worlds as we experimentally journey inward, beyond Christ Michael and to the Father.
Colter
Ok, thanks, so I'm guessing the aliens told you this.
Good luck in the resurrection.How did you discover this teaching?
Quote (Colter @ Mar. 14 2013,21:18) Quote (journey42 @ Mar. 14 2013,15:43) Quote (Colter @ Mar. 14 2013,11:56) My question for you t8 is, do you see the retrospective conclusions and historical world view of “The First Council of Nicaea” as binding and infallible? Yes
No
If your answer is no and the conclusions of the priest class of the “Councils” are imperfect, then why do you believe the conclusions and historical world view of the Hebrew priest retrospectives to be binding and infallible?
Colter
Hi Coulter,What planet are you from?
I was born on Earth “Urantia”, I am finite, potentially eternal.The eternal “Christ Michael” resides on Salvington, he came down from there and returned to his rightful place on high.
Upon the resurrection we will awake on one of the many mansion worlds as we experimentally journey inward, beyond Christ Michael and to the Father.
Colter
Colter.The Holy bible is not to be trusted,but your masters are genuine.
They teach the truth.
How do you know,have you any evidence?Michael is Jesus,how can that be when angels are created,and Jesus created all things.
Without him was ***nothing*** made that was made.I suppose You also believe that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers?
wakeup.
Quote (journey42 @ Mar. 15 2013,00:38) Quote (Colter @ Mar. 14 2013,21:18) I was born on Earth “Urantia”, I am finite, potentially eternal. The eternal “Christ Michael” resides on Salvington, he came down from there and returned to his rightful place on high.
Upon the resurrection we will awake on one of the many mansion worlds as we experimentally journey inward, beyond Christ Michael and to the Father.
Colter
Ok, thanks, so I'm guessing the aliens told you this.
Good luck in the resurrection.How did you discover this teaching?
Journey42, They aren't aliens if we know who they are.I will ask you a question, who told Mary that her child was a child of promise? What about Johns mother Elizabeth?
Were the celestial's that visited Abraham at the Tree's of Mamrie aliens?
Please answer without mocking Jesus' mother like she's also a nut job.
Quote (Wakeup @ Mar. 15 2013,01:18) Quote (Colter @ Mar. 14 2013,21:18) Quote (journey42 @ Mar. 14 2013,15:43) Quote (Colter @ Mar. 14 2013,11:56) My question for you t8 is, do you see the retrospective conclusions and historical world view of “The First Council of Nicaea” as binding and infallible? Yes
No
If your answer is no and the conclusions of the priest class of the “Councils” are imperfect, then why do you believe the conclusions and historical world view of the Hebrew priest retrospectives to be binding and infallible?
Colter
Hi Coulter,What planet are you from?
I was born on Earth “Urantia”, I am finite, potentially eternal.The eternal “Christ Michael” resides on Salvington, he came down from there and returned to his rightful place on high.
Upon the resurrection we will awake on one of the many mansion worlds as we experimentally journey inward, beyond Christ Michael and to the Father.
Colter
Colter.The Holy bible is not to be trusted,but your masters are genuine.
They teach the truth.
How do you know,have you any evidence?Michael is Jesus,how can that be when angels are created,and Jesus created all things.
Without him was ***nothing*** made that was made.I suppose You also believe that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers?
wakeup.
The 5 revelations to our planet:The Gift of Revelation
(1007.1) 92:4.1 “Revelation is evolutionary but always progressive. Down through the ages of a world’s history, the revelations of religion are ever-expanding and successively more enlightening. It is the mission of revelation to sort and censor the successive religions of evolution. But if revelation is to exalt and upstep the religions of evolution, then must such divine visitations portray teachings which are not too far removed from the thought and reactions of the age in which they are presented. Thus must and does revelation always keep in touch with evolution. Always must the religion of revelation be limited by man’s capacity of receptivity.
(1007.2) 92:4.2 But regardless of apparent connection or derivation, the religions of revelation are always characterized by a belief in some Deity of final value and in some concept of the survival of personality identity after death.
(1007.3) 92:4.3 Evolutionary religion is sentimental, not logical. It is man’s reaction to belief in a hypothetical ghost-spirit world — the human belief-reflex, excited by the realization and fear of the unknown. Revelatory religion is propounded by the real spiritual world; it is the response of the superintellectual cosmos to the mortal hunger to believe in, and depend upon, the universal Deities. Evolutionary religion pictures the circuitous gropings of humanity in quest of truth; revelatory religion is that very truth.
(1007.4) 92:4.4 There have been many events of religious revelation but only five of epochal significance. These were as follows:
(1007.5) 92:4.5 1. The Dalamatian teachings. The true concept of the First Source and Center was first promulgated on Urantia by the one hundred corporeal members of Prince Caligastia’s staff. This expanding revelation of Deity went on for more than three hundred thousand years until it was suddenly terminated by the planetary secession and the disruption of the teaching regime. Except for the work of Van, the influence of the Dalamatian revelation was practically lost to the whole world. Even the Nodites had forgotten this truth by the time of Adam’s arrival. Of all who received the teachings of the one hundred, the red men held them longest, but the idea of the Great Spirit was but a hazy concept in Amerindian religion when contact with Christianity greatly clarified and strengthened it.
(1007.6) 92:4.6 2. The Edenic teachings. Adam and Eve again portrayed the concept of the Father of all to the evolutionary peoples. The disruption of the first Eden halted the course of the Adamic revelation before it had ever fully started. But the aborted teachings of Adam were carried on by the Sethite priests, and some of these truths have never been entirely lost to the world. The entire trend of Levantine religious evolution was modified by the teachings of the Sethites. But by 2500 B.C. mankind had largely lost sight of the revelation sponsored in the days of Eden.
(1007.7) 92:4.7 3. Melchizedek of Salem. This emergency Son of Nebadon inaugurated the third revelation of truth on Urantia. The cardinal precepts of his teachings were trust and faith. He taught trust in the omnipotent beneficence of God and proclaimed that faith was the act by which men earned God’s favor. His teachings gradually commingled with the beliefs and practices of various evolutionary religions and finally developed into those theologic systems present on Urantia at the opening of the first millennium after Christ.
(1008.1) 92:4.8 4. Jesus of Nazareth. Christ Michael presented for the fourth time to Urantia the concept of God as the Universal Father, and this teaching has generally persisted ever since. The essence of his teaching was love and service, the loving worship which a creature son voluntarily gives in recognition of, and response to, the loving ministry of God his Father; the freewill service which such creature sons bestow upon their brethren in the joyous realization that in this service they are likewise serving God the Father.
(1008.2) 92:4.9 5. The Urantia Papers. The papers, of which this is one, constitute the most recent presentation of truth to the mortals of Urantia. These papers differ from all previous revelations, for they are not the work of a single universe personality but a composite presentation by many beings. But no revelation short of the attainment of the Universal Father can ever be complete. All other celestial ministrations are no more than partial, transient, and practically adapted to local conditions in time and space. While such admissions as this may possibly detract from the immediate force and authority of all revelations, the time has arrived on Urantia when it is advisable to make such frank statements, even at the risk of weakening the future influence and authority of this, the most recent of the revelations of truth to the mortal races of Urantia.”
Hi Colter,
Why does the preceding citation of the
UB have two sets of reference numbers
(1007.1-1008.2) and (92:4.1-92:4.9 5)?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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