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I read the first page of these posts and replies. Due to the nature of this paticular subject, it is rather impossible to nail down excatly who is what and on what day that shall come to pass.
Especially, since no man knows.
And,
The Wisdom of man is foolishness in the sight of GOD.
I heard a pretty interesting statement the other day.
“Has it ever occured to you, that nothing has ever occured to GOD?”
Now…Obviously I will input my 2 cents, as to what I personally think. And thus, one can take and do what they will with it. My job is not to convince people that I know something that someone else does not. In truth, I most likely don't know much of anything. I just think I do.
Nonetheless, yes I do agree that the “Word” “Anti-Christ” used in the Bible in some instances, does refer to a “State of Being” or an “Persona” if you will.
As for the so called “Anti-Christ” being an actual man. Well, Yes I believe that as well. I believe there will be a man that is going to have the “Persona” of the Anti-Christ already. That the Enemy (I.E. SATAN…or one of his fallen henchmen) will posess…with a multitude of evil spirits and thoughts in order to carry out what is written in the Book.
I also believe that there is going to be a Fore-Runner to this man. That will make ready the way for him to proceed with his goings forth. Most commonly referred to as the “False Prophet”
One of the main reasons that I think this is because Satan, The fallen angel that is heading up this revolt. Usually likes to make things believable by incorporating some truth with his lies. Or, by imatating something that GOD did in some fashion.
This being a prime example. Such as John was sent ahead of Jesus Christ to make ready the arrival of Jesus in the world.
Another such good example to display that Satan uses this tactic is when Moses threw down his staff and it turned to a serpent. And the Wicked followers of Satan threw down theirs and they turned to a serpent as well. Obviously, we know who won the battle, still yet we see here that a mimic took place.
As far as this debate over Days and Times of such times and days.
Well let me tell you something right now brother. I may not know much, but there is one thing that I am sure of. GOD is completely and fully aware of the “TIME” that we go by. How do I know this? Because he made it, and if there is anyone, anyplace, anywhere….that has any concept of time period…I can promise you that GODS concept of time is far greater than any others.
People say “Well the days of creation really might not have been an actual 24 hour day” To say this is to flat out call the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY a lair.
Reason being:
“Genisis 1 (King James Version)
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.”This my dearly beloved friends, is what you call a 24 Hour Day. It was a 24 Hour day then, and its still a 24 Hour day now.
Jesus even asked a question in the form of a statement in the New Testament.
“John 11 (King James Version)
9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.” (That is saying there are 12 hours in a day, and obviously 12 hours in a night…hmm a certain chinese symbol comes to mind, in order to depict this does it not?)He did that alot, its the way he taught. Or, got the point across, it was used to stimulate your brain to stop and think about how foolish what you just said was.
You see, its a decption of the enemy to get people thinking that there might have been Millions upon Billions of years between scriptures in the opening book of the Bible. If he can get you thinking that…then he can then proceed to convience you that GOD just might have used Evolution to create the man. If he can get you thinking that…well…he can push you right over the edge and then convience you that Evolution can take place without GOD…and get you doubting that GOD even exists.
ITS A FLAT OUT LIE FROM THE PITS OF HELL!
You better get ahold of what I'm saying here. If you don't read anything else on this post you better not let yourself be caught up in a lie…in the device of Satan. A 24 Hour day is a 24 Hour day. Anyway you cut it, he knows it, GOD most certainly knows it…and you better know it.
The evening and the morning don't mean 4.6 billion years with in which what ever might have happened. You see the theory here is, that if you add enough time to our Pea-Brain way of thinking. Well, then to us anything is possible given enough time. Like the old saying goes…”Tell a lie long enough and eventually people will believe it.”
Then there is the arguement that people try to use that scripture:
“2 Peter 3:8
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”There was a man that lived a while back, his name was Albert Einstein. He described this type of reference to time as Relativity….for use in this application I believe that we would be more closer to Special Relativity, or maybe General Relativity, not sure.
He also had a quote that pretty much relates the same conception of the mind, that reading the scripture does.
“When a man sits with a pretty girl for an hour, it seems like a minute. But let him sit on a hot stove for a minute and it's longer than any hour. That's relativity.” –Albert Einstein
Another one of Einsteins quotes that I am sort of fond of is this one:
“Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.” –Albert Einstein
Obviously, if you believe that your going to be in heaven for 10,000 years and only have been there 1 day. You do greatly err. You see…Einstein's theory is basicly saying the same thing the Bible is, just no one can understand it.
I'm going to put this in science for you, since you can't seem to understand the scripture.
E = mc²
The equivalence of matter and energy was originally expressed by the equation m = L/c², which easily translates into the far more well known E = mc² in Does the Inertia of a Body Depend Upon Its Energy Content? published in the Annalen der Physik (27 September 1905) : “If a body gives off the energy L in the form of radiation, its mass diminishes by L/c².”
In a later statement explaining the ideas expressed by this equation, Einstein summarized: “It followed from the special theory of relativity that mass and energy are both but different manifestations of the same thing — a somewhat unfamiliar conception for the average mind. Furthermore, the equation E = mc², in which energy is put equal to mass, multiplied by the square of the velocity of light, showed that very small amounts of mass may be converted into a very large amount of energy and vice versa.and…
Special relativity
Special relativity is a theory of the structure of spacetime. It was introduced in Albert Einstein's 1905 paper “On the Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies”. Special relativity is based on two postulates which are contradictory in classical mechanics:The laws of physics are the same for all observers in uniform motion relative to one another (Galileo's principle of relativity),
The speed of light in a vacuum is the same for all observers, regardless of their relative motion or of the motion of the source of the light.
The resultant theory has many surprising consequences. Some of these are:Relativity of simultaneity: Two events, simultaneous for some observer, may not be simultaneous for another observer if the observers are in relative motion.
Time dilation: Moving
clocks are measured to tick more slowly than an observer's “stationary” clock.
Length contraction: Objects are measured to be shortened in the direction that they are moving with respect to the observer.
Mass-energy equivalence: E = mc2, energy and mass are equivalent and transmutable.The point is…when you get to heaven…your not going to be there for a day, or 10,000 years, or 1,000 years. You are just going to be there.
Same as with a person in Hell, however the experience of both is quite relative to their comfort and/or discomfort.
There will be time no more. Got it?
This is why I don't post too much, because I get started and don't know when to stop. I hope that I have not offended anyone. It is never my intention to offend someone. If you can make a good arguement to your beliefs, then I'll give it a good listen and then research it myself to see if they are from GOD.
I'm not saying that I'm right and your wrong, or that your right and I'm wrong.
In fact…if you are looking at me or yourself or any other human being…for perfection. I hate to be the one to break this to you. But, eventually who ever it is that you are looking too for this…will eventually let you down.
Why?
Because no one is perfect. In fact, we are all far from it.
To all
The Jews did not believe Jesus was the son of God, and so do many people today, they could be labeled as antichrist. Any one who teaches a different gospel than Christ did, is an antichrist. Any one who does not believe he was sent in the flesh, is an antichrist. Of these Antichrist's we have many; but there is only one who claims he is the “Vicar” of Christ, who claims he is here instead of Christ, who even wears that title on his crown, “VICAR OF THE SON OF GOD”, and that is the Pope. He is “thee” Antichrist.
Go and check the history of the Catholic church, how they persecuted, tortured, and killed all who would not except their doctrine. It is actually prophesied in Rev. 13:5-18.
Verse 11 should really go in front of verse 5.Georg
Quote (david @ Feb. 01 2009,08:15) Quote I dont think the Anti-Christ is a person. —pheonix.
Nor do I think it is “a” person, as if it were one person who fulfills this role.
Anti-Christ means “against” Christ. The Bible says there were “many” antichrist's, even in the apostles days.
Yes that is right, there are many antichrists.The below verse (from the NWT I think) which you quoted says 2 things.
1) The antichrist that is coming (future)
2) The many antichrists now (present day)1 JOHN 2:18-19 (c. 98. C.E.)
“Young children, it is the last hour, and, just as you have heard that antichrist is coming, even now there have come to be many antichrists; from which fact we gain the knowledge that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But [they went out] that it might be shown up that not all are of our sort.”So there must be a reason for grouping them this way. Most people on first take, understand it to mean a specific antichrist who is to come and the many antichrists that were present then. What is your take on that specific grouping?
Quote (Cindy @ Feb. 15 2009,01:57) To all The Jews did not believe Jesus was the son of God, and so do many people today, they could be labeled as antichrist. Any one who teaches a different gospel than Christ did, is an antichrist. Any one who does not believe he was sent in the flesh, is an antichrist. Of these Antichrist's we have many; but there is only one who claims he is the “Vicar” of Christ, who claims he is here instead of Christ, who even wears that title on his crown, “VICAR OF THE SON OF GOD”, and that is the Pope. He is “thee” Antichrist.
Go and check the history of the Catholic church, how they persecuted, tortured, and killed all who would not except their doctrine. It is actually prophesied in Rev. 13:5-18.
Verse 11 should really go in front of verse 5.Georg
Yes it is a very compelling case.Hi Georg,
You say
“Go and check the history of the Catholic church, how they persecuted, tortured, and killed all who would not except their doctrine. It is actually prophesied in Rev. 13:5-18.
Verse 11 should really go in front of verse 5.”Rev13
5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
11And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. “
You would claim the right to change Revelation?
Rev22
18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Quote The below verse (from the NWT I think) which you quoted says 2 things. 1) The antichrist that is coming (future)
2) The many antichrists now (present day)1 JOHN 2:18-19 (c. 98. C.E.)
“Young children, it is the last hour, and, just as you have heard that antichrist is coming, even now there have come to be many antichrists; from which fact we gain the knowledge that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But [they went out] that it might be shown up that not all are of our sort.”So there must be a reason for grouping them this way. Most people on first take, understand it to mean a specific antichrist who is to come and the many antichrists that were present then. What is your take on that specific grouping?
The last hour of what? The apostles were passing off the scene. The restraint (spoken of in Thessalonians) was being removed. After that, the flood of apostasy was ready to break forth like gangrene.
Have you ever thought of it this way: Just as you heard anti Christ was coming, guess what, they are already here, for in fact, even now, there are many anti christs.Quote Thee Antichrist is the one who claims he is here instead of Christ; Jesus fortold that his followers would have much opposition.–hatred, persecution, etc, just as Jesus had.
The Bible says that, just as they heard anti Christ was coming, even then (when written) there were “many antichrists.”
anti means “against.”
Movies and the media have created this idea of some giant anti-christ. While it's true that some are larger than others, in power, etc, the Bible does not point to one person as some arch anti christ.
Quote Many say that Jesus came as a pre-existing spirit son I don't think anyone says this Jodi. Scripture plainly says Jesus “became flesh.”
I think this scripture: “who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh” is speaking of people who do not believe Jesus came to the earth in human form, in the flesh.
I have never heard anyone believe that Jesus came to earth, but as a spirit. Everyone who believes he came to earth believes he came “in the flesh.” I think this is saying that Jesus was actually here as a person, in the flesh.
Even today, people often say “in the flesh.” It means “in person, present.”
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/in+the+fleshQuote (Cindy @ Feb. 15 2009,01:57) To all The Jews did not believe Jesus was the son of God, and so do many people today, they could be labeled as antichrist. Any one who teaches a different gospel than Christ did, is an antichrist. Any one who does not believe he was sent in the flesh, is an antichrist. Of these Antichrist's we have many; but there is only one who claims he is the “Vicar” of Christ, who claims he is here instead of Christ, who even wears that title on his crown, “VICAR OF THE SON OF GOD”, and that is the Pope. He is “thee” Antichrist.
Go and check the history of the Catholic church, how they persecuted, tortured, and killed all who would not except their doctrine. It is actually prophesied in Rev. 13:5-18.
Verse 11 should really go in front of verse 5.Georg
Greetings Georg…..The Pope is indeed one of the many anti christs….The Pope is the quintessential blasphemer and false profit….He recognizes the Christ as the son of God but teaches a different Gospel,whereby he elevates himself and his universal church….Quote (david @ Feb. 20 2009,15:12) T8, are you going to war? (What is with your new avatar)?
I was in a war the day I received salvation and even before that.Put on the whole armour of God. The helmet of salvation and the machine gun of the spirit, the gas mask of faith. You get the idea.
Of course not to be taken literally as we do not fight against flesh and blood, but spiritual powers. Our weapons are not carnal and our fight is not agaisnt flesh.
We must wear the whole armor so that we can stand withstand in the evil day.
Quote (david @ Feb. 20 2009,15:16) The last hour of what? The apostles were passing off the scene. The restraint (spoken of in Thessalonians) was being removed. After that, the flood of apostasy was ready to break forth like gangrene.
Have you ever thought of it this way: Just as you heard anti Christ was coming, guess what, they are already here, for in fact, even now, there are many anti christs.
No I haven't thought of it that way, but certainly worth consideration.It does say anthchist (singular) which normally is used to talk about a specific person as oposed to many people.
Although I guess a specific group could also be considered antichrist, such as popes.
The following text seems to be talking of someone specific.
2 Thessalonians 2
1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.Quote I was in a war the day I received salvation and even before that. Put on the whole armour of God.
t8, I think the Bible means “spritual” armor and spiritual warefare. I suggest you put down the bullets and slowly back away…
Quote The following text seems to be talking of someone specific. 2 Thessalonians 2
1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.Yes, the man of lawlessness–the clergy class.
(Go back and read the whole text and see if clergy class fits with everything it says.)
And of course the clergy class are anti-christ.
Oh, and T8, that scripture can't be speaking of one person (it is a class of people) because it says:
“True, the mystery of this lawlessness is already at work;”
The effect of that class was already beginning back then–already at work. It was a mystery back then, because it was just beginning and not clear. But when the restraint (The apostles) were removed, the clergy class arose, the man of lawlesseness.
david
The restrainer was the Roman emperor, he was “PONTIFEX MAXIMUS”, chief religious ruler. As long as there was an emperor around no one would dare claim that title. In 565 AD Justinian died, he was the last emperor of the east and the west; no other emperor of the east was able to maintain control over the west, the restrainer was taken out of the way, and Antichrist, the pope, took full command.
He would rule over what used to be the western Roman empire, until in 1813 Napoleon brought him down from his throne.Georg
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