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1 JOHN 2:18-19 (c. 98. C.E.)
“Young children, it is the last hour, and, just as you have heard that antichrist is coming, even now there have come to be many antichrists; from which fact we gain the knowledge that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But [they went out] that it might be shown up that not all are of our sort.”1 JOHN 4:3 (c. 98 C.E.)
“but every inspired expression that does not confess Jesus does not originate with God. Furthermore, this is the antichrist’s [inspired expression] which YOU have heard was coming, and now it is already in the world.”2 JOHN 7 (c. 98 C.E.)
“For many deceivers have gone forth into the world, persons not confessing Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.”Quote (david @ Jan. 23 2009,18:07) 1 JOHN 2:18-19 (c. 98. C.E.)
“Young children, it is the last hour, and, just as you have heard that antichrist is coming, even now there have come to be many antichrists; from which fact we gain the knowledge that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But [they went out] that it might be shown up that not all are of our sort.”1 JOHN 4:3 (c. 98 C.E.)
“but every inspired expression that does not confess Jesus does not originate with God. Furthermore, this is the antichrist’s [inspired expression] which YOU have heard was coming, and now it is already in the world.”2 JOHN 7 (c. 98 C.E.)
“For many deceivers have gone forth into the world, persons not confessing Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.”
Does it appear that “antichrist” is an attitude about Christ that when held by anyone confers on them the label, antichrist?What are some of your understandings is to what it means for them not to “confess Jesus?
SEEKING
Quote Does it appear that “antichrist” is an attitude about Christ that when held by anyone confers on them the label, antichrist? Yes, it does. The Bible said there WERE “many antichrists” already in the first century. Movies and stories like to portray the idea of one really bad guy, “the antichrist.”
But, anyone against Christ (anti – Christ) can be “the antichrist”:
“For MANY DECEIVERS have gone forth into the world, PERSONS not confessing Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. THIS IS is the deceiver and THE ANTICHRIST.”
Quote (david @ Jan. 24 2009,15:13) Does it appear that “antichrist” is an attitude
Yes, it does. The Bible said there WERE “many antichrists” already in the first century. Movies and stories like to portray the idea of one really bad guy, “the antichrist.”
Glad we appear in agreement that “antichrist is an attitude.
I have felt for years that labeling people from th Pope on up missed it. Seems much like those who predict the second coming (and miss it).What is your understanding about how they, the antichrists,
fail to confess Jesus?As we begin his thread, I am thankful you directed us to the word as it identifies antichrist.
Seeking
Seeking
Who do you thing this is speaking of?
Dan 7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
Dan 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.Now compare with
Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.Notice, the time given to this character is the same in Dan. as in Rev.; and we are not talking 1260 days either, the saints should have been so lucky
Georg
Quote (Cindy @ Jan. 25 2009,02:29) Who do you thing this is speaking of? Dan 7:8 I considered the horns…
Some say Antiochus Epiphanes (175-164). Usually the speculators take one of several approaches as I understand it.
The futurist views and interprets things as pertaining to future events. The present day interpreter believes the meaning was for the present day only. Those with a “continual historical” bent look at things as having both a present and future application.I do believe there will be a final antichrist reigning when Jesus comes. Whether that will be a person, system of government,
conglomerate, or something else I do not know.The passages that identify antichrist as an attitude have already been cited I believe:
2 John 1:7 (KJV)
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.1 John 2:22 (KJV)
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.1 John 4:3 (KJV)
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.So, antichrist is a spirit too according to the word.
Regarding the 1260 day math. Apparently that is what the
literal calculations would be. So, since apparently many more than three plus years have past – perhaps it is figurative language.Perhaps “antichrist” is figurative language and is not meant to be interpreted as a specific person.
Who do you think it is?
Seeking
Quote (Cindy @ Jan. 25 2009,14:01) Seeking Since you seem to think Antichrist is an attitude, it is pointless to tell you.
Georg
Sorry that that is your attitude. I am always seeking and consider everyones knowledge as plausible. I can always be enlightened with anothers understanding of the word.Seeking
Quote Perhaps “antichrist” is figurative language and is not meant to be interpreted as a specific person. What do the scriptures say?
1 JOHN 2:18-19 (c. 98. C.E.)
“Young children, it is the last hour, and, just as you have heard that antichrist is coming, even now there have come to be many antichrists; from which fact we gain the knowledge that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But [they went out] that it might be shown up that not all are of our sort.”1 JOHN 4:3 (c. 98 C.E.)
“but every inspired expression that does not confess Jesus does not originate with God. Furthermore, this is the antichrist’s [inspired expression] which YOU have heard was coming, and now it is already in the world.”2 JOHN 7 (c. 98 C.E.)
“For many deceivers have gone forth into the world, persons not confessing Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.”Note, especially the last one:
“For MANY DECEIVERS have gone forth into the world, PERSONS not confessing Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. THIS IS is the deceiver and THE ANTICHRIST.”Really, anything or anyone that is against Christ is an antiChrist. But the idea that the Bible predicted one PERSON isn't really in the Bible. Sure, there's the man of lawlessness (not a person) that people often confuse with the antichrist. It certainly is an antichrist.
And the ones that fight against the holy ones (saints) and Jesus are also certainly antichrist.
As scripture says: there have come to be many antichrists
Quote (david @ Jan. 24 2009,15:13) Quote Does it appear that “antichrist” is an attitude about Christ that when held by anyone confers on them the label, antichrist? Yes, it does. The Bible said there WERE “many antichrists” already in the first century. Movies and stories like to portray the idea of one really bad guy, “the antichrist.”
But, anyone against Christ (anti – Christ) can be “the antichrist”:
“For MANY DECEIVERS have gone forth into the world, PERSONS not confessing Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. THIS IS is the deceiver and THE ANTICHRIST.”
Good point david. There are many antichrists.1 John 2:18
Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.The above verse if translated correctly indicates that there exists or will exist “The Antichrist” and of course we know that there are many antichrists.
Quote (SEEKING @ Jan. 25 2009,00:16) Glad we appear in agreement that “antichrist is an attitude.
I have felt for years that labeling people from th Pope on up missed it. Seems much like those who predict the second coming (and miss it).What is your understanding about how they, the antichrists,
fail to confess Jesus?
T8, David,It sure appears to me we are saying the same thing – to the point of repitition even. We (the three of us) have cited the
first John passages to establish the point.As I asked, any thoughts on how one (antichrist) fails to confess Christ?
T8, since you opened apparently wanting to give air to those who believe they can or have identified the antichrist, it seems we should give them freedom to express theri views also.
Seeking
Quote (Cindy @ Jan. 25 2009,20:56) Seeking On page 2 of “Biblical Prophecy” is a topic, “MANY ANTICHRIST”, check it out.
Georg
GeorgThanks for directing me to another in depth discussion and understanding of this topic.
Seeking
1 JOHN 2:18-19 (c. 98. C.E.)
“Young children, it is the last hour, and, just as you have heard that antichrist is coming, even now there have come to be many antichrists; from which fact we gain the knowledge that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But [they went out] that it might be shown up that not all are of our sortI have two questions about this reference and time statement by David. What did John mean by the last hour, and what scriptural support John penned his letter in 98 C.E.? These inquiries may be the key to understanding who these antichrists were living in Johns day.
God Bless
Quote A bit like saying there is “The Theos” as opposed to “theos”. I was watching a guy on Tv a moment ago. He had “a” dog. The dog died. He devoted his life to saving “the dog” (meaning dogs in general.)
It reminded me of this conversation.
Quote It sure appears to me we are saying the same thing – to the point of repitition even. We (the three of us) have cited the
first John passages to establish the point.As I asked, any thoughts on how one (antichrist) fails to confess Christ?
Seeking, there are so many people (many on here) who think there is one all consuming antichrist person. That is why I harp on that scripture so much.
But as for your question:
“He that is not on my side is against me, and he that does not gather with me scatters.” (Lu 11:23)Denial of Jesus as the Christ and as the Son of God of necessity embraces the denial of any or all of the Scriptural teachings concerning him: his origin, his place in God’s arrangement, his fulfillment of the prophecies in the Hebrew Scriptures as the promised Messiah, his ministry and teachings and prophecies, as well as any opposition to or efforts to replace him in his position as God’s appointed High Priest and King. This is evident from other texts, which, while not using the term “antichrist,” express essentially the same idea.
2 John 7 shows that such ones might act as deceivers, and hence the “antichrist” would include those who are “false Christs” and “false prophets,” as well as those who perform powerful works in Jesus’ name and yet are classed by him as “workers of lawlessness.”—Mt 24:24; 7:15, 22, 23.Related scripture:
HEBREWS 3:1
“Consequently, holy brothers, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the apostle and high priest whom we confess—Jesus.”Quote (david @ Jan. 26 2009,13:37) Denial of Jesus as the Christ and as the Son of God of necessity embraces the denial of any or all of the Scriptural teachings concerning him: his origin, his place in God’s arrangement, his fulfillment of the prophecies in the Hebrew Scriptures as the promised Messiah, his ministry and teachings and prophecies, as well as any opposition to or efforts to replace him in his position as God’s appointed High Priest and King. .”—Mt 24:24; 7:15, 22, 23.
David, Thanks for your response. While I would hope that repetition of the truth contained in certain passages would
“convince”, it seems once set in a particular trend, we stay there unless we remain open to the Spirit. Consider the Pharisees as an example.With your definition of the “antichrist” comes the dilemna that
many would be labeled as such. I think aboout the varience of understanding surrounding Jn.1:1. I we saying taht the ones who interpret pre-existence incorrectly (whomever that may be) are then “antichrists?I often wonder if we are not to give some space for learniing:
Acts 18:25ff (KJV)
This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John. And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.Philip. 3:12,15 (KJV)
Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.When we quickly label others and speak condecendingly of their understanding it seems to remove all hopes of discussion.
Your thoughts?
Seeking
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