- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Aug. 18 2006,01:40) Quote (Oxy @ Aug. 18 2006,01:24) Here's my $2 worth. You can be saved, but not filled with the Holy Spirit. It's a bit like having a car with no petrol. You can't grow as a Christian without the baptism in the Holy Spirit, nor benefit yourself or others with the fruit or gifts thereof. There are many good Christians who have not received the advent of Pentecost, just as there are many Pentecostal Christians who have not entered into Tabenacles. Will it one day be said that only those who have entered into Tabernacles will be saved? God forbid, yet those who have have gained much.
Dear Oxy,Brother, what is more important? The gifts of the spirit or the love of Christ? What good is a gift if it is not given from a loving heart?
What benefits the kingdom of God more? To feed the hungry, cloth the naked, take care of the widows, to help the sick or to speak in tongues and to have the gifts of the spirit.
The gifts of the spirit are given to help the growth in faith. But what good is that growth if there is not first love. It is the love of God that matters more then all things. Too many forget this. This is what happened to Israel. They got caught up in the letter of the law and forgot about loving the giver of the law. Let us not make the same mistake. As long as we continue in charity first in all things, through the love of Christ, the rest will take care of itself.
The first of the fruit of the Spirit is……
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is: love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith,Before I was filled with the Spirit I had salvation. When I had received the baptism of the Spirit I also understood love.
Blessings
Hi typsrn,
I have yet to see the changes in the sun and moon. Have you seen them?They come before the promise about the Spirit being poured out on everyone surely?Quote (Oxy @ Aug. 18 2006,01:24) Here's my $2 worth. You can be saved, but not filled with the Holy Spirit. It's a bit like having a car with no petrol. You can't grow as a Christian without the baptism in the Holy Spirit, nor benefit yourself or others with the fruit or gifts thereof. There are many good Christians who have not received the advent of Pentecost, just as there are many Pentecostal Christians who have not entered into Tabenacles. Will it one day be said that only those who have entered into Tabernacles will be saved? God forbid, yet those who have have gained much.
Oxy,You are correct, that is your two cents worth. A man is not saved without the Holy Ghost.
I've noticed that you emphasize the three major feasts of YHWH. Passover, Pentecost and Tabernacles were all fulfilled by Christ. We (the church) will identify with Tabernacles when this mortal puts on immortality and this corruptible puts on incorruption as Paul said in 1 Cor. 15:51-58, when we are changed (not spiritually, but actually) . I have read your presentation and was not impressed by it as it reminds me of the esoteric Jewish kabbalistic teachings. I understand compeletely what you are trying to say in it. It is not sound doctrine.
Before I was filled with the Spirit I had salvation. When I had received the baptism of the Spirit I also understood love.
Dear Oxy,
When I was saved, what filled my heart was the love of Christ. If that is not the Spirit, I don't know what is. The baptism is the infilling.
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Aug. 18 2006,01:28) Ty, please don't get angry brother. I love you and believe your stand in the faith is far better then most. I know I have rattled your cage. The point I am trying to get across is that salvation comes by believing. And then if one has not received the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which most don't, it is given with the laying on of hands. Salvation does not come by the laying on of hands.
Now, if one does not get the baptisms, will they lose their salvation, who has the right, but God to decide in that matter? Should we encourage all to partake in the baptisms. Cerainly and with all urgency. Why? Because it fulfills all rightiousness.
H,I am the least bit angry. You have not “rattled my cage” either. I am perfectly fine.
Why do keep saying “the Holy Ghost is given by the laying on of hands” as if that is exclusively how it is given? Can not God give the Holy Ghost without man's intervention? No one said salvation came by the laying on of heads. That's you that keeps mentioning this. No ever said that salvation didn't come by believing. Again, you are omitting other important scriptural passages in your analysis of the subject. If one does not have the Holy Ghost, they do not have a salvation to lose.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 18 2006,01:52) Hi typsrn,
I have yet to see the changes in the sun and moon. Have you seen them?They come before the promise about the Spirit being poured out on everyone surely?
Nick,I would strongly that you open another thread for this. This will take us way off topic.
Hi H,
How did you know?
“Before I was filled with the Spirit I had salvation”
We are not following you are we?Quote (typrsn @ Aug. 18 2006,02:10) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 18 2006,01:52) Hi typsrn,
I have yet to see the changes in the sun and moon. Have you seen them?They come before the promise about the Spirit being poured out on everyone surely?
Nick,I would strongly that you open another thread for this. This will take us way off topic.
Hi t,
Why don't you and then you can show what you would like discussed?Why I mentioned the laying on of hands is because it is how most received and receive the baptism. And the reason I asked if salvation comes by the laying on of hands is because of you saying that a man is not saved unless he has received the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
So if a man accepts Christ, but later is baptized in the Holy Spirit by the laying of hands, is he then saved by the laying on of hands or was he saved when he accepted Christ?
Quote (typrsn @ Aug. 18 2006,01:56) Quote (Oxy @ Aug. 18 2006,01:24) Here's my $2 worth. You can be saved, but not filled with the Holy Spirit. It's a bit like having a car with no petrol. You can't grow as a Christian without the baptism in the Holy Spirit, nor benefit yourself or others with the fruit or gifts thereof. There are many good Christians who have not received the advent of Pentecost, just as there are many Pentecostal Christians who have not entered into Tabenacles. Will it one day be said that only those who have entered into Tabernacles will be saved? God forbid, yet those who have have gained much.
Oxy,You are correct, that is your two cents worth. A man is not saved without the Holy Ghost.
I've noticed that you emphasize the three major feasts of YHWH. Passover, Pentecost and Tabernacles were all fulfilled by Christ. We (the church) will identify with Tabernacles when this mortal puts on immortality and this corruptible puts on incorruption as Paul said in 1 Cor. 15:51-58, when we are changed (not spiritually, but actually) . I have read your presentation and was not impressed by it as it reminds me of the esoteric Jewish kabbalistic teachings. I understand compeletely what you are trying to say in it. It is not sound doctrine.
Ty, you disappoint me brother. I have proof of my salvation through my testimony. I have the same proof for my Tabernacles experience. Just because you don't understand or agree with something doesn't mean it isn't so. All of man's knowledge put together doesn't match up to one fragment of God's knowledge, and I admit to being no theologian, but I do know what God has taught me through the Scriptures and the fruit of what He taught me was the awesome experience I had and still enjoy as a result.God bless you bro.
It is true that the Holy Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are saved, but that is not the same as the baptism in the Holy Spirit.
Hi H,
Before we can discuss consequences we have to prove that we accept the basics that you are building on. The foundation you specify here is not shown in the bible so can you start again?“So if a man accepts Christ, but later is baptized in the Holy Spirit by the laying of hands, is he then saved by the laying on of hands or was he saved when he accepted Christ? “
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Aug. 18 2006,02:32) Why I mentioned the laying on of hands is because it is how most received and receive the baptism. And the reason I asked if salvation comes by the laying on of hands is because of you saying that a man is not saved unless he has received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. So if a man accepts Christ, but later is baptized in the Holy Spirit by the laying of hands, is he then saved by the laying on of hands or was he saved when he accepted Christ?
H,I'm done with you on this matter. I will not keep going back and forth with this.
Quote (Oxy @ Aug. 18 2006,02:36) Quote (typrsn @ Aug. 18 2006,01:56) Quote (Oxy @ Aug. 18 2006,01:24) Here's my $2 worth. You can be saved, but not filled with the Holy Spirit. It's a bit like having a car with no petrol. You can't grow as a Christian without the baptism in the Holy Spirit, nor benefit yourself or others with the fruit or gifts thereof. There are many good Christians who have not received the advent of Pentecost, just as there are many Pentecostal Christians who have not entered into Tabenacles. Will it one day be said that only those who have entered into Tabernacles will be saved? God forbid, yet those who have have gained much.
Oxy,You are correct, that is your two cents worth. A man is not saved without the Holy Ghost.
I've noticed that you emphasize the three major feasts of YHWH. Passover, Pentecost and Tabernacles were all fulfilled by Christ. We (the church) will identify with Tabernacles when this mortal puts on immortality and this corruptible puts on incorruption as Paul said in 1 Cor. 15:51-58, when we are changed (not spiritually, but actually) . I have read your presentation and was not impressed by it as it reminds me of the esoteric Jewish kabbalistic teachings. I understand compeletely what you are trying to say in it. It is not sound doctrine.
Ty, you disappoint me brother. I have proof of my salvation through my testimony. I have the same proof for my Tabernacles experience. Just because you don't understand or agree with something doesn't mean it isn't so. All of man's knowledge put together doesn't match up to one fragment of God's knowledge, and I admit to being no theologian, but I do know what God has taught me through the Scriptures and the fruit of what He taught me was the awesome experience I had and still enjoy as a result.God bless you bro.
Oxy,I never said you weren't saved did I? What proof do you have of your tabernacles experience? I assume you're referring to a personal proof (which I will not question). I never said I didn't understand where you were coming from with this, nor does my disagreement with your revelation mean that it isn't so. Please start a new thread so that we can discuss these feasts. It is obvious that there could be no Pentecost, without Passover and that there could be no Tabernacles without Pentecost.
K.. new topic started under Biblical Doctrine called the Feast of Tabernacles.
Just a mo while I go prepare myself for the slaughter lol.
Dear Ty,
I believe that even though I believe that a man is saved by accepting Christ and then must be baptized by water and the Holy Spirit, I don't see that there is any difference in what you believe other then the fact that you don't believe the man is not completely saved until has be baptized by all the baptisms.
I believe it is wrong to teach that a man is unsaved if he doesn't receive the baptisms because it is not scriptural, but you believe it is. We will disagree on this point and I will believe that you are in judgement.
Yet, we do agree that all things must be done. That is what is important. This is not the only thing we disagree on though, for you misinterpret John 3:3 which is why I believed your stand suspect. And in the future, when you post scripture, please write it out. I do that making it easier for all to read and know what it straightforward and true. And give your explaination to your stand to that scripture brother.
We got off on the wrong foot because you failed the litmus test. Which is John 3:3. Please go back and reread it. Out of all people, I was surprised that you did not see the truth in it.
Hi H,
You said
” I believe that a man is saved by accepting Christ”Thank you for you explanation.
So this is just what you have come to believe and you have no scriptural proofs for such a position.
That is fine.
It is OK to just have an opinion about something and to bring it here so long as you do not expect us to share that opinion if you cannot provide a scriptural basis for that opinion.We have all come from there and then we learned to only teach what is written.
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Aug. 18 2006,19:38) Dear Ty, I believe that even though I believe that a man is saved by accepting Christ and then must be baptized by water and the Holy Spirit, I don't see that there is any difference in what you believe other then the fact that you don't believe the man is not completely saved until has be baptized by all the baptisms.
I believe it is wrong to teach that a man is unsaved if he doesn't receive the baptisms because it is not scriptural, but you believe it is. We will disagree on this point and I will believe that you are in judgement.
Yet, we do agree that all things must be done. That is what is important. This is not the only thing we disagree on though, for you misinterpret John 3:3 which is why I believed your stand suspect. And in the future, when you post scripture, please write it out. I do that making it easier for all to read and know what it straightforward and true. And give your explaination to your stand to that scripture brother.
We got off on the wrong foot because you failed the litmus test. Which is John 3:3. Please go back and reread it. Out of all people, I was surprised that you did not see the truth in it.
H,I have failed the John 3:3 litmus test in “your” estimation based upon “your” understanding of the recorded dilaogue that Jesus had with Niicodemus. I have already gone back and forth with you about John 3:3, so I will not rekindle that discussion. However, I will be sure to write out the full scriptural passage I refer to in my posts in the future.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
