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Dear Ty,
1) No, if a person does not receive the Holy Ghost, that person is not saved. Jesus told Nicodemus that we must be born again and He described the birth of the Spirit (John 3:1-8). Paul also says in Rom. 8:9 that if any person does not have the Spirit of Christ he is none of His. He also says in 1 Cor.12:13 that by one Spirit we are baptized into one body. Jesus Christ was born again by resurrection. So must we be.
When Jesus told Nicodemus a man must be born again, he was telling him that the man must be born again in the spirit. Since man was dead in the spirit, he had to be reborn.
For how can one be reborn if not first born then die. And since this does not happen in the flesh, the Lord had to be speaking of the spirit. For we are only born once in the flesh.
Now, Nicodemus though Jesus was talking about the flesh, and that is why he asked the question. Notice the word second.
John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
That is when Jesus explained to him that he was not talking about physical birth, and rebirth, but spiritual birth and rebirth.
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Many confuse being born of water with the baptism of water. This is not so. Jesus was trying to make Nicodemus understand that he was not speaking of physical birth, but spiritual birth. When he said a man must be born of water, he was speaking of being born of the flesh. Proof of that lies within th very next verse. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, that which is born of the spirit is spirit.
Also, when we are born into this world, we are born of water. We are born in a sack of water. When that water breaks, we are at that moment born.
When we are born again, we are at that moment changed. Christ comes and lives in us. And if Christ is in us, is not the Holy Spirit? This is not the same as the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Yet, many have recieved the baptism at the same time of salvation. God gives to whom he gives. It is his will. I was saved at fifteen and did not recieve the baptism of the Holy Spirit until around the age of twentyone.
Now, if I would have died before recieving the baptism, would I have gone to heaven or hell?
Thank you for your answers. This was really the one that concerned me the most and needed dealt with.
God bless brother.
Hi typsrn,
You say
“The disciples did not receive the Holy Ghost when Jesus breathed on them in John 20:22. Jesus was speaking prophetically about what would occur on the day of Pentecost.”So why did he breathe on them?
Why is it so similar to what God did with the dust to create man in Gen 2.7?
Hi H,
You confuse being born of flesh
with
being born of water.You really need to strengthen your case scripturally that being born of water is natural birth as your word alone on this matter may not be enough for most believers.
Sorry Nick, it is not I who am confused. Do not add or take away from the Word of God. Just read what it says.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 11 2006,01:28) Hi trpsrn,
Your post does raise questions then about the Eunuch and the others who had yet to have hands laid on them to manifest the baptism of the Spirit.And those in Galatians that Paul was anxious about as to when the fruit of the Spirit of Christ was to become manifest in them.
The development of the life of Christ in us is all by the Spirit and the gifts are of less importance than the fruit. It is not as much by the gifts we shall be known but by the fruit.
Nick,The book of Acts is a summary. It is not meant to be a comprehensive work. Just because Luke does not record anything else about the Ethiopian eunuch doesn't mean nothing happened later.
The folks at Galatia had the Holy Ghost. Otherwise they would not have been considered the church of Christ. Paul eben says in Gal. 3:2 that they had received the Spirit by the hearing of faith. The church at Galatia had issues to overcome just like the church at Corinth and other churches. Paul is teaching them against depending on human effort to bring about the things of God. He is teaching them to depend on the Spirit. They had been infiltrated by teachers that taught that they had to be circumcised to be saved and was trying to bring them in bondage to the Law. This was a big issue in the early church as we can see from Galatians, Acts 15 and the warning to the church at Philippi in Phil. 3:1-7.
The development of the life of Christ in us can't begin until we have Christ in us. We receive Christ in us when we receive the Spirit of Christ, Spirit of God, Comforter, Spirit of Truth, promise of the Father, etc. which is synonymous with the Holy Ghost. We know that we have received the Holy Ghost when we speak in tongues as the Spirit gives utterance as is recorded in scripture. No “sound”, no Spirit according to Jesus in John 3:8. No Spirit of Christ, we are none of His according to Paul in Rom. 8:9
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Aug. 11 2006,01:46) Dear Ty, 1) No, if a person does not receive the Holy Ghost, that person is not saved. Jesus told Nicodemus that we must be born again and He described the birth of the Spirit (John 3:1-8). Paul also says in Rom. 8:9 that if any person does not have the Spirit of Christ he is none of His. He also says in 1 Cor.12:13 that by one Spirit we are baptized into one body. Jesus Christ was born again by resurrection. So must we be.
When Jesus told Nicodemus a man must be born again, he was telling him that the man must be born again in the spirit. Since man was dead in the spirit, he had to be reborn.
For how can one be reborn if not first born then die. And since this does not happen in the flesh, the Lord had to be speaking of the spirit. For we are only born once in the flesh.
Now, Nicodemus though Jesus was talking about the flesh, and that is why he asked the question. Notice the word second.
John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
That is when Jesus explained to him that he was not talking about physical birth, and rebirth, but spiritual birth and rebirth.
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Many confuse being born of water with the baptism of water. This is not so. Jesus was trying to make Nicodemus understand that he was not speaking of physical birth, but spiritual birth. When he said a man must be born of water, he was speaking of being born of the flesh. Proof of that lies within th very next verse. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, that which is born of the spirit is spirit.
Also, when we are born into this world, we are born of water. We are born in a sack of water. When that water breaks, we are at that moment born.
When we are born again, we are at that moment changed. Christ comes and lives in us. And if Christ is in us, is not the Holy Spirit? This is not the same as the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Yet, many have recieved the baptism at the same time of salvation. God gives to whom he gives. It is his will. I was saved at fifteen and did not recieve the baptism of the Holy Spirit until around the age of twentyone.
Now, if I would have died before recieving the baptism, would I have gone to heaven or hell?
Thank you for your answers. This was really the one that concerned me the most and needed dealt with.
God bless brother.
H,The scripture teaches that being baptized in the Spirit and being born of the Spirit are synonymous. I will not discuss water as that discussion has been exhausted as far as I'm concerned. A person's initial salvation is not complete until after they are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise which is the earnest of our inheritance (Ephes. 1:13, 14), the firstfruits of the Sprit (Rom. 8:23) the sealing and earnest of the Spirit (1 Cor. 1:22; 2 Cor. 5:5). Repentance unto life only takes place when there is the baptism of the Holy Ghost (Acts 11:15-18).
Hi Typ,
In 1Cor 3.6f what did Paul plant? surely the gospel seed.
With what did Apollos water? surely teaching in the Spirit.The foundation stone was laid of Christ by water and the Spirit.
But the growth that is of God in fruit and perhaps gifts does not seem to be immediately apparent.
Does that matter?
Is not obedience to the commands the work given us and the results of God?“6©I planted, (D)Apollos watered, but (E)God was causing the growth.
7So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth.
8Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will (F)receive his own reward according to his own labor.
9For we are God's (G)fellow workers; you are God's (H)field, God's (I)building.
10According to (J)the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder (K)I laid a foundation, and (L)another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it.
11For no man can lay a (M)foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13(N)each man's work will become evident; for (O)the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work.
14If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will (P)receive a reward.
15If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet (Q)so as through fire.
16®Do you not know that (S)you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
17If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.”
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 11 2006,02:34) Hi typsrn,
Are there not many gifts?
Are all gifted in tongues?
Nick,There are many gifts. No, all do not have the gift of tongues (1 Cor. 12:10, 30). Neither do all have the gift of faith (1 Cor.12:9). But hold on. I thought all had to have faith to be saved. Just as there is a difference between the faith that God has dealt to every man (Rom. 12:3) and the gift of faith mentioned In 1 Cor. 12. There is also a difference between tongues spoken when the Holy Ghost is received and the gift of tongues mentioned in 1 Cor.12. The gift of faith and the gift of tongues (along with the interpretation by the speaker or someone else 1 Cor. 12:10; 1 Cor. 14:13,27,28) are for the benefit of the whole body. In a corporate worship situation the only person benefited by tongues without interpretation, is the speaker. The body is not benefited (1 Cor.14:5,6,12,16-19,26). The key to understanding 1 Cor. 12 and 1 Cor. 14 is to understand that the gifts are for the benefit of the body. The church at Corinth was not demonstating love like they were supposed to. This is also seen in the selfishness demonstrated by them in the Lord's supper in 1 Cor. 11. That is why Paul parenthetically writes about love in 1 Cor. 13.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 11 2006,02:51) Hi Typ,
In 1Cor 3.6f what did Paul plant? surely the gospel seed.
With what did Apollos water? surely teaching in the Spirit.The foundation stone was laid of Christ by water and the Spirit.
But the growth that is of God in fruit and perhaps gifts does not seem to be immediately apparent.
Does that matter?
Is not obedience to the commands the work given us and the results of God?“6©I planted, (D)Apollos watered, but (E)God was causing the growth.
7So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth.
8Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will (F)receive his own reward according to his own labor.
9For we are God's (G)fellow workers; you are God's (H)field, God's (I)building.
10According to (J)the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder (K)I laid a foundation, and (L)another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it.
11For no man can lay a (M)foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13(N)each man's work will become evident; for (O)the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work.
14If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will (P)receive a reward.
15If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet (Q)so as through fire.
16®Do you not know that (S)you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
17If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.”
Nick,Paul established the church at Corinth according to Luke in Acts 18. That is the planting he was referring to. The foundation laid Paul referred to in verse 10 was getting the folks saved. It was their beginning in the Spirit as we see with the church at Galatia in Gal. 3:3. Paul continued there for 18 months according to Luke (Acts 18:11). Apollos did not began to preach that Jesus was Christ until a little later (Acts 18:24-28) in Achaia having left Ephesus. Apollos clearly ministered at Corinth later. The foundation definitely consists of the Acts 2:38 message and teaching follows (Acts 2:42).
Good stuff typ,
I believe Rom 8 and Jude explains that the gift of tongues is for the building up of the individual too.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 11 2006,03:31) Good stuff typ,
I believe Rom 8 and Jude explains that the gift of tongues is for the building up of the individual too.
Nick,That is correct. Rom. 8:26,27 and Jude:20 are the verses you reference.
Quote (typrsn @ Aug. 11 2006,02:41) Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Aug. 11 2006,01:46) Dear Ty, 1) No, if a person does not receive the Holy Ghost, that person is not saved. Jesus told Nicodemus that we must be born again and He described the birth of the Spirit (John 3:1-8). Paul also says in Rom. 8:9 that if any person does not have the Spirit of Christ he is none of His. He also says in 1 Cor.12:13 that by one Spirit we are baptized into one body. Jesus Christ was born again by resurrection. So must we be.
When Jesus told Nicodemus a man must be born again, he was telling him that the man must be born again in the spirit. Since man was dead in the spirit, he had to be reborn.
For how can one be reborn if not first born then die. And since this does not happen in the flesh, the Lord had to be speaking of the spirit. For we are only born once in the flesh.
Now, Nicodemus though Jesus was talking about the flesh, and that is why he asked the question. Notice the word second.
John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
That is when Jesus explained to him that he was not talking about physical birth, and rebirth, but spiritual birth and rebirth.
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Many confuse being born of water with the baptism of water. This is not so. Jesus was trying to make Nicodemus understand that he was not speaking of physical birth, but spiritual birth. When he said a man must be born of water, he was speaking of being born of the flesh. Proof of that lies within th very next verse. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, that which is born of the spirit is spirit.
Also, when we are born into this world, we are born of water. We are born in a sack of water. When that water breaks, we are at that moment born.
When we are born again, we are at that moment changed. Christ comes and lives in us. And if Christ is in us, is not the Holy Spirit? This is not the same as the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Yet, many have recieved the baptism at the same time of salvation. God gives to whom he gives. It is his will. I was saved at fifteen and did not recieve the baptism of the Holy Spirit until around the age of twentyone.
Now, if I would have died before recieving the baptism, would I have gone to heaven or hell?
Thank you for your answers. This was really the one that concerned me the most and needed dealt with.
God bless brother.
H,The scripture teaches that being baptized in the Spirit and being born of the Spirit are synonymous. I will not discuss water as that discussion has been exhausted as far as I'm concerned. A person's initial salvation is not complete until after they are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise which is the earnest of our inheritance (Ephes. 1:13, 14), the firstfruits of the Sprit (Rom. 8:23) the sealing and earnest of the Spirit (1 Cor. 1:22; 2 Cor. 5:5). Repentance unto life only takes place when there is the baptism of the Holy Ghost (Acts 11:15-18).
Ty,If you are going to teach this on this forum, I will meet you one every corner. For that is contrary to the Word of God. So I suggest you gird your loins. For when a man is born again, he has Christ in him and to say that the Holy Spirit of God is not in that man when Christ is in that man is a false teaching. To say that the man is not saved when Christ enters into that man after cleansing that man with his blood is false teaching. I am going to post some scriptures on the power of the blood of the lamb. I suggest you read them. For all who try to steal the redeeming blood of the lamb are thieves. So read it wisely, least you fall into this catagory.
Why do believers want to rob salvation of the blood that saves them? Do you not understand the importance of the blood. Without the blood, there would be not remission of sins. What is more important, water or blood? The church for too long has turned it's back on the blood of the lamb. I rebuke all who do this. It is time to change this. For the power is in the blood of the lamb.
Heb. 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
Acts 20:28 Take heed, therefore, to yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the assembly of the Lord and God which he purchased with his own blood.
Romans 3:25 whom God set forth to be an atoning sacrifice, through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness through the passing over of prior sins, in God's forbearance;
Ephesians 1:7 in whom we have our redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,
Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off are made near in the blood of Christ.
Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Colossians 1:20 and through him to reconcile all things to himself, by him, whether things on the earth, or things in the heavens, having made peace through the blood of his cross.
Hebrews 9:12 nor yet through the blood of goats and calves, but through his own blood, entered in once for all into the Holy Place, having obtained eternal redemption.
Hebrews 9:13 For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled, sanctify to the cleanness of the flesh: (WEB KJV WEY ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
Hebrews 9:14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?Hebrews 12:24 to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better than that of Abel.
Hebrews 13:12 Therefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people through his own blood, suffered outside of the gate.
1 Peter 1:2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, that you may obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with his blood: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.
1 Peter 1:19 but with precious blood, as of a faultless and pure lamb, the blood of Christ;
1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.
Revelation 7:14 I told him, “My lord, you know.” He said to me, “These are those who came out of the great tribulation. They washed their robes, and made them white in the Lamb's blood.
Revelation 12:11 They overcame him because of the Lamb's blood, and because of the word of their testimony. They didn't love their life, even to death.
Hi H,
Typsrn is flesh and blood and a brother.
Our battle is not against flesh and blood.“12For our (A)struggle is not against (B)flesh and blood, but Âagainst the rulers, against the powers, against the (D)world forces of this (E)darkness, against the (F)spiritual forces of wickedness in (G)the heavenly places”
Nick,
Unsound teachings are unsound, reguardless from where ever the source. Most come from indoctrination by the words of men. I agree Ty is flesh and blood, but he is also under the influence of the doctrines of men. If it were not so, he would not be in dispute with the Word of God.
I do not love him any less then I love you. Yet, I become offended by all those who try and steal the sanctifying blood and the power that it has within it of the blood of Christ. Too long have men tried to steer the hearts away from this truth. It is the blood of Jesus that makes us Holy, that sanctifies the temple. Without his blood, without the cleansing of our sins, we could not receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Aug. 11 2006,18:25) Quote (typrsn @ Aug. 11 2006,02:41) Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Aug. 11 2006,01:46) Dear Ty, 1) No, if a person does not receive the Holy Ghost, that person is not saved. Jesus told Nicodemus that we must be born again and He described the birth of the Spirit (John 3:1-8). Paul also says in Rom. 8:9 that if any person does not have the Spirit of Christ he is none of His. He also says in 1 Cor.12:13 that by one Spirit we are baptized into one body. Jesus Christ was born again by resurrection. So must we be.
When Jesus told Nicodemus a man must be born again, he was telling him that the man must be born again in the spirit. Since man was dead in the spirit, he had to be reborn.
For how can one be reborn if not first born then die. And since this does not happen in the flesh, the Lord had to be speaking of the spirit. For we are only born once in the flesh.
Now, Nicodemus though Jesus was talking about the flesh, and that is why he asked the question. Notice the word second.
John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
That is when Jesus explained to him that he was not talking about physical birth, and rebirth, but spiritual birth and rebirth.
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Many confuse being born of water with the baptism of water. This is not so. Jesus was trying to make Nicodemus understand that he was not speaking of physical birth, but spiritual birth. When he said a man must be born of water, he was speaking of being born of the flesh. Proof of that lies within th very next verse. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, that which is born of the spirit is spirit.
Also, when we are born into this world, we are born of water. We are born in a sack of water. When that water breaks, we are at that moment born.
When we are born again, we are at that moment changed. Christ comes and lives in us. And if Christ is in us, is not the Holy Spirit? This is not the same as the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Yet, many have recieved the baptism at the same time of salvation. God gives to whom he gives. It is his will. I was saved at fifteen and did not recieve the baptism of the Holy Spirit until around the age of twentyone.
Now, if I would have died before recieving the baptism, would I have gone to heaven or hell?
Thank you for your answers. This was really the one that concerned me the most and needed dealt with.
God bless brother.
H,The scripture teaches that being baptized in the Spirit and being born of the Spirit are synonymous. I will not discuss water as that discussion has been exhausted as far as I'm concerned. A person's initial salvation is not complete until after they are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise which is the earnest of our inheritance (Ephes. 1:13, 14), the firstfruits of the Sprit (Rom. 8:23) the sealing and earnest of the Spirit (1 Cor. 1:22; 2 Cor. 5:5). Repentance unto life only takes place when there is the baptism of the Holy Ghost (Acts 11:15-18).
Ty,If you are going to teach this on this forum, I will meet you one every corner. For that is contrary to the Word of God. So I suggest you gird your loins. For when a man is born again, he has Christ in him and to say that the Holy Spirit of God is not in that man when Christ is in that man is a false teaching. To say that the man is not saved when Christ enters into that man after cleansing that man with his blood is false teaching. I am going to post some scriptures on the power of the blood of the lamb. I suggest you read them. For all who try to steal the redeeming blood of the lamb are thieves. So read it wisely, least you fall into this catagory.
Why do believers want to rob salvation of the blood that saves them? Do you not understand the importance of the blood. Without the blood, there would be not remission of sins. What is more important, water or blood? The church for too long has turned it's back on the blood of the lamb. I rebuke all who do this. It is time to change this. For the power is in the blood of the lamb.
Heb. 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
Acts 20:28 Take heed, therefore, to yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the assembly of the Lord and God which he purchased with his own blood.
Romans 3:25 whom God set forth to be an atoning sacrifice, through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness through the passing over of prior sins, in God's forbearance;
Ephesians 1:7 in whom we have our redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,
Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off are made near in the blood of Christ.
Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Colossians 1:20 and through him to reconcile all things to himself, by him, whether things on the earth, or things in the heavens, having made peace through the blood of his cross.
Hebrews 9:12 nor yet through the blood of goats and calves, but through his own blood, entered in once for all into the Holy Place, having obtained eternal redemption.
Hebrews 9:13 For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled, sanctify to the cleanness of the flesh: (WEB KJV WEY ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
Hebrews 9:14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?Hebrews 12:24 to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better than that of Abel.
Hebrews 13:12 Therefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people through his own blood, suffered outside of the gate.
1 Peter 1:2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, that you may obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with his blood: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.
1 Peter 1:19 but with precious blood, as of a faultless and pure lamb, the blood of Christ;
1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.
Revelation 7:14 I told him, “My lord, you know.” He said to me, “These are those who came out of the great tribulation. They washed their robes, and made them white in the Lamb's blood.
Revelation 12:11 They overcame him because of the Lamb's blood, and because of the word of their testimony. They didn't love their life, even to death.
H,As I've said before, so say I now again, the blood is the beginning of the journey, but not the complete journey. If it were not for that
beginning there would be no ending. Please do not private message me anymore as the others on this forum are not able to see our dialog. It seems that you are saying that the blood of Christ is all that we need. This is not true. I have said nothing against the blood of Christ. Neither have I taught false doctrine. I teach the same doctrine the apostles taught. Your doctrine is flawed because it doesn't go far enough. If you would take the scriptures that I have provided along with the scriptures that you have provided, you would have a broader view of the gospel message. Not only did Christ die according to the scriptures, but He was buried and rose again the third day according to the scriptures (1 Cor. 15:1-4). You seem to want to identify with a dead Christ, while I choose to identify with a Christ who testified “I am He that liveth, and was dead; and, behold I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and death (Rev. 1:18). I've identified with this risen Christ, not only through repentance and water baptism in His name (Acts 2:38), but also by being a recipient of His resurrection life which is His Spirit. Adam, my first father has sinned (Is. 43:27; Rom. 5:12; 1 Cor. 20-23, 45-50) and passed death to every man. This is why David said ” I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.” (Ps. 50:5) The last Adam was made a life-giving Spirit and is the Father of eternal life, the everlasting Father (Is. 9:6) by the resurrection from the dead. He is the first of His kind. I have His resurrection life in me now. If this resurrection life is not the Holy Ghost, then why did Christ have to be glorified first (John 7:37-39)?I emailed you this response to your private message:
“The blood is vital. I competely understand that without it there would be no remission of sins, but it does not end there. No one is disagreeing with you concerning the importance of the blood. After sins are remitted then what? After the filthy garments are removed we must be clothed with a change of raiment (Zech. 1-4). Although Paul says to the church in Romans 5:9 that we are justified by His blood, Paul told the church at Corinth that if Christ be not raised, our faith in is vain and we are still in our sins (1 Cor. 15:17) because He was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification (Rom. 4:25). Christ was born again. Paul says that we shall be saved by His life (Rom. 5:10). Paul is referring to His resurrected life. The life that Paul was living, was the resurrected Christ living in him (Gal. 3:20). His death was the means to life, but not the life itself. We live unto Him that died for us and rose again (2 Cor. 5:15). If we don't have His Spirit, we don't have His life and are none of His (Rom. 8:9).
As I mentioned before, although the blood of the passover lamb in Ex. 12 was the beginning of Israel's deliverance, it was certainly not the end. If they would not have followed Moses through the Red Sea in Ex. 14 they would have died in Egypt. Egypt is a type of the world. Peter says that we have escaped (Exodus) the corruption that is in the world through lusts (2 Pet. 1:4). How do we escape? (Acts 2:38; 1 Cor. 10:1-4).”
What about this do you disagree with? Please respond point by point.
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Aug. 11 2006,20:54) Nick, Unsound teachings are unsound, reguardless from where ever the source. Most come from indoctrination by the words of men. I agree Ty is flesh and blood, but he is also under the influence of the doctrines of men. If it were not so, he would not be in dispute with the Word of God.
I do not love him any less then I love you. Yet, I become offended by all those who try and steal the sanctifying blood and the power that it has within it of the blood of Christ. Too long have men tried to steer the hearts away from this truth. It is the blood of Jesus that makes us Holy, that sanctifies the temple. Without his blood, without the cleansing of our sins, we could not receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
H,You continually accuse me of “stealing the power of His sanctifying blood”. I do not disagree with you on the power of His blood, but you disagree with me on the power of His resurrection (Rom. 1:4;Phil. 3:10). His blood didn't raise us up with Him, it was His life that did that (Col. 3:1; Ephes. 2:1,5,6).
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Aug. 11 2006,22:28) I understand now. You believe in the trinity. Am I correct?
H,This is the 2nd time in 2 days that you've asked me that question. Do you not remember asking me already? I've already told you that I do not believe in the trinity. God does not exist as 3 persons. Please just respond to my post.
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