Christ's DivinityWhere did it originate?

[The One]

First of all,hello.I have been absent from this forum for some time,but I have been reading posts.And I would appreciate any commemts my fellow members have concerning this topic.

  Did Chrisr have his own diety,or was it given to him?To me,the clearest answer comes from Col.1:18 where,after describing all of the aspects of diety that Jesus possessed(possesses)Paul tells us”For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in him(Christ).That fullness is described in Col.2:9.

 Also,in 1 Cor.15:Paul tells us of the reign of Christ.This reign was/is GIVEN to him by”For He(the Father)has put all things
in subjection under his(Jesus')feet.But when He(the Father(says”All things are in subjection”,it is evident that He us
EXCEPTED who put all things in subjection to him.

 Then Paul states the following in vs.28″When all things are in subjection to him,then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to him,so that
God may be ALL IN ALL.”

  What does this say?!Is God divided?Of course not!But as discussed earlier,God has bestowed His power and Word(John 14:10)to His Son.And after judgement,Christ will not only give the kingdom to the Father(Col.15:24),but also the diety which God has given to him.This also disputes the eternal equality of God and Christ.

 John 1:1-3 tells us exactly the make up of the Annointed”In the beginning(this is creation because we know that God is eternal,immortal,..1 Tim.6:13-15)was the Word(the creative,life giving,salvation bringing Word).And the Word was WITH God(there,present in heaven along with the Father,this being Christ's spiritual existance)and the Word WAS God(that which Jesus spoke to us,which was bestowed to him by the Father,John 14:10,6:38,7:16,8:26…).Also Jn.1:3 states plainly
“He(Christ)was in the beginning WITH God”,not”AS”God.

 To me,a christian must be a pure monotheist to be in accordance with the Father's Word,and recognize that Christ is holy,a saviour,a high priest,miracle worker,and son by the Father's will alone.

 

[Lightenup]

Hi TO.
Welcome back! I believe that the Son was always deity from His beginning but after His victory on the cross, He was given the power to go along with His deity nature. He was deity without power before He proved Himself. It is sort of like the son of a king, he is royalty as a child but is royalty with power upon his inauguration. The Father of the Son always had the power of deity and always existed, the Son was born from that Father in the beginning, helped in creation, and many years later was born of Mary, and then after the blood was shed on the cross, He received power to be the fullness of deity (He gained power) for us. And that is how I understand it.

Blessings,
LU/Lightenup/Kathi

[The One]

Thank you for your greeting,I'm glad to be back.

If Jesus was diety(which means God)in the beginning,why does he have a God?In Jn.20:17 Jesus says that he would accend to”My Father and your Father,My GOD and your God”

If Jesus was/is God,then how can he have a God?As far as I can discern from the Scriptures,God has no god.

May the Father continually bless you.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Lightenup @ April 01 2009,03:52)

Hi TO. Welcome back!  I believe that the Son was always deity from His beginning but after His victory on the cross, He was given the power to go along with His deity nature.  He was deity without power before He proved Himself.  It is sort of like the son of a king, he is royalty as a child but is royalty with power upon his inauguration.  The Father of the Son always had the power of deity and always existed, the Son was born from that Father in the beginning, helped in creation, and many years later was born of Mary, and then after the blood was shed on the cross, He received power to be the fullness of deity (He gained power) for us. And that is how I understand it. Blessings, LU/Lightenup/Kathi

Hi LU,
Christ WAS a deity?
Worshiped by angels perhaps in heaven?

No truth says God is one and there is only one true God.

Heb1 says that WHEN GOD BROUGHT HIM INTO THE WORLD He said “let all the angels worship him” so this was not so before then surely.

Many in scripture such as angels and men and even Satan are CALLED GODS.

[Lightenup]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 31 2009,13:44)

Quote (Lightenup @ April 01 2009,03:52) Hi TO. Welcome back!  I believe that the Son was always deity from His beginning but after His victory on the cross, He was given the power to go along with His deity nature.  He was deity without power before He proved Himself.  It is sort of like the son of a king, he is royalty as a child but is royalty with power upon his inauguration.  The Father of the Son always had the power of deity and always existed, the Son was born from that Father in the beginning, helped in creation, and many years later was born of Mary, and then after the blood was shed on the cross, He received power to be the fullness of deity (He gained power) for us. And that is how I understand it. Blessings, LU/Lightenup/Kathi Hi LU, Christ WAS a deity? Worshiped by angels perhaps in heaven? No truth says God is one and there is only one true God. Heb1 says that WHEN GOD BROUGHT HIM INTO THE WORLD He said “let all the angels worship him” so this was not so before then surely. Many in scripture such as angels and men and even Satan are CALLED GODS.

Hi Nick,
The Son did not become a deity, he was a deity in the beginning according to John 1:1. Like a prince is born royalty, a prince does not become royalty yet he comes into the fullness of royalty when he is inaugurated. It is then that the prince becomes a king and has the power to rule over his kingdom.

The Son is worshipped after His inauguration, not before yet He was “royalty” before just not royalty annointed with power.

LU

[Lightenup]

Quote (The One @ Mar. 31 2009,12:20)

Thank you for your greeting,I'm glad to be back.  If Jesus was diety(which means God)in the beginning,why does he have a God?In Jn.20:17 Jesus says that he would accend to”My Father and your Father,My GOD and your God”  If Jesus was/is God,then how can he have a God?As far as I can discern from the Scriptures,God has no god.   May the Father continually bless you.

Dear TO,
You are right in that GOD, the Most High God has no GOD. The Son who is the God of GOD does have a GOD however.

Heb 1:8-9

8 But of the Son He says,

“YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER,
AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.
9 “YOU HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATED LAWLESSNESS;
THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, HAS ANOINTED YOU
WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS.”
NASU

God has a GOD, the Son-the begotten God has a GOD, the one who has begotten Him.

Blessings to you,
LU

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,
Jesus is not the God of the Father.
The Almighty has no equal.

[The One]

Thanks for the reply,
Heb.1:6 says(in the NASV)”And when He(God)
again(2nd time)brings the”firstborn”into the world He says”Let
the angels of heaven worship him.”So the Father is the one who commands the worhip….AT THE JUDGEMENT!

Also,in Jn 17:1-3,during Jesus' high priestly prayer(he is praying to the Father-vs.1)and the Lord says in vs.3,”eternal life is this,that they(the apostles)may know you(the Father),the ONLY TRUE GOD.”

And we can't forget our OT history.Christ was a jew,a descendant of the Isrealites,and the one thing that set them apart from all of the surrounding societies was the fact that they worhipped one single God.The statement they were known for was”the Lord is our God.The Lord is one.”

All the other nations were polytheistic,while the Isrealites were strict monotheists.And if we follow the examples of Moses,Abraham,David,Isreal,Christ,the apostles….then we too must be pure monotheists.

[NickHassan]

Yes TO,
Jesus came to reveal the Father in him as Spirit to men.
Instead foolish men made him into a wierd god combination with God and even God's own Spirit.

[The One]

To Nick and all,
Thank you for your responses.I believe there is great confusion over Christ's diety among we christians especially.

We must ask 2 questions:
First,Is Jesus God?The answer is Yes.Phil.1,Col.1..
all state that Christ possessed/possesses the aspects of diety
which makes him Godlike.

Second,Is Jesus' power,word,…his own?The answer is NO!
Christ himself(as well as the apostles,the OT…)plainly tell us
that Jesus' power,Word,authority…was GIVEN to him by the Father.

BTW, did you know God had more than one son.Proof?In 2 Sam.7 David is planning on building the temple,and God sends Nathan to tell him that So;omon,not he,would build His house.And in vs.13-14 God through Nathan says this,”He
(Solomon)will build my house,and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. 14)I will be a father to him,and he shall be a son to me…”

Now Christ existed,was born,before Solomon.But God can create,appoint,adopt,annoint who He wills to be a son,as long as God indwells them(and Solomon was bestowed with wisdom from the Father).

But,we must be sure of who we call,worship…as THE God!

[NickHassan]

Hi TO,
Israel too were sons.
Deut14
1″You are the sons of the LORD your God; you shall not cut yourselves nor shave your forehead for the sake of the dead.

[The One]

Nick,
Yes I agree.We too are sons and daughters of God because of our belief and faith.But the situation with Solomon and the Isrealites as a whole are different circumstances.

In Duet. the address is generalized(to all the people),but in 2 Sam. the calling of Solomon His son is both specific and
directed through the prophet Nathan to David by God in person.

As far as I know,there are only two specific references to INDIVIDUALS as chosen sons.

BTW,did you know that someone in scripture is called God(godlike)beside Jesus?

Read Exodus4:16 where God tells Moses that he will”be God” to Aaron.And again in Ex.7:1 where God tells Moses that he would be”as God”to Pharoah and that Aaron would be his(Moses')prophet.I thought that was very interesting.

May the Father bless you

[NickHassan]

Hi TO,
All the prophets spoke for God, spoke as God, even as the angel of God does.
Obedience in faith makes us sons not just faith which makes us only as the demons[jas]

[The One]

Nick,
You are of course correct.My basic point was only that in one case it was generalized to an entire people,while the other was specific in nature(but both are equally valid words of God).

My christian brothers have always said that only the son was ever”God on earth”.But the 2 passages in Exodus seem
to teach differently.How do you read/reconcile this idea?

[NickHassan]

Hi TO,
God indeed visited His people
in the vessel of His son.

[Lightenup]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 31 2009,15:37)

Hi LU, Jesus is not the God of the Father. The Almighty has no equal.

Hi Nick,
We are hopping from topic to topic today and saying the same thing with different words.  Wouldn't it be easier if we just discussed this on Skype or my new webcam?  Good grief!!!

I know that Jesus is not the God of the Father.  Arrrgh!  And I have been preaching the Almighty has no equal.  Double Arrrgh!!  Haven't you been “listening” to my posts with your heart?
When I write that the Son is God of GOD I am saying that the Son is the God from GOD, I am not saying that He is the God OVER GOD.  Do you see the difference?

Love ya Nick ,
LU

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