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And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I. And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground. Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.
(Exodus 3:2-6 KJV)An angel claiming to be God here and yet is still an angel of the LORD. I doubt that angel would be an angel of the LORD long if it wasnt true. I believe this to be a preincarnate Christ who is claiming again to be equal with God which is just one of many Scripture where Jesus claims that. Same with this captain of the LORD's army
And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries? And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant? And the captain of the LORD'S host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.
(Joshua 5:13-15 KJV)And God's anger was kindled because he went: and the angel of the LORD stood in the way for an adversary against him. Now he was riding upon his ass, and his two servants were with him. And the ass saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and the ass turned aside out of the way, and went into the field: and Balaam smote the ass, to turn her into the way. But the angel of the LORD stood in a path of the vineyards, a wall being on this side, and a wall on that side. And when the ass saw the angel of the LORD, she thrust herself unto the wall, and crushed Balaam's foot against the wall: and he smote her again. And the angel of the LORD went further, and stood in a narrow place, where was no way to turn either to the right hand or to the left. And when the ass saw the angel of the LORD, she fell down under Balaam: and Balaam's anger was kindled, and he smote the ass with a staff. And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times? And Balaam said unto the ass, Because thou hast mocked me: I would there were a sword in mine hand, for now would I kill thee. And the ass said unto Balaam, Am not I thine ass, upon which thou hast ridden ever since I was thine unto this day? was I ever wont to do so unto thee? And he said, Nay. Then the LORD opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and he bowed down his head, and fell flat on his face.
(Numbers 22:22-31 KJV)That is just a small list of them but lets look at what a normal angel does when it receives worship
And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
(Revelation 22:8-9 KJV)And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
(Revelation 19:9-10 KJV)And he said unto me, O Daniel, a man greatly beloved, understand the words that I speak unto thee, and stand upright: for unto thee am I now sent. And when he had spoken this word unto me, I stood trembling.
(Daniel 10:11 KJV)Another angel of the LORD
And the angel of the LORD said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude. And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction. And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren. And she called the name of the LORD that spake unto her, Thou God seest me: for she said, Have I also here looked after him that seeth me?
(Genesis 16:10-13 KJV)Can an angel promise to multiply thy seed?
How could this Angel of the LORD be God when no one has seen God?
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
(John 1:18 KJV)No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
(1 John 4:12 KJV)How do you explain this with the verses of the Angel of the LORD receiving worship? One explination is that this is refering the God the Father because Jesus was seen by man.
In the New Testament, the same word that is translated as “WORSHIP,” is also translated as “HONOR and PAY TRIBUTE”. Now I have a question?; Do people worship the beast or do they pay tribute? I hope everyone here knowns that the word “beast” is symbolic for the littlest nation. Also the number 666 is for a name “TITLE” of a man. P.S. the 4 beast in the King James of Revelations should have been translated; “The four living beings”.
Hi,
Angel means messenger. Angels often are used by God to bring His messages to men. No problem there. They speak the word of the Lord in the name of the Lord.
Christophanies are imagined appearances of Christ, not God, on earth prior to his partaking of flesh. Christ is not God. Scripture says he was like to us in all ways except sin. If he had visited and checked out the landscape would he not have had a distinct advantage?Quote How could this Angel of the LORD be God when no one has seen God?
As Nick says, it's an angel (literally “messenger”) of the Lord (or “Jehovah” KJV, compare ps 83:18)
So I'm not sure what problem or question you are raising.david
The fact that God the Father no one has seen yet this angel was receiving worship from man and as i contrasted normal angels tell man to stop worshiping them because they are like them, but no correction is heard from the Angel of the LORD.
Quote (MichaelTheeArchAngel @ June 12 2006,18:44) In the New Testament, the same word that is translated as “WORSHIP,” is also translated as “HONOR and PAY TRIBUTE”. Now I have a question?; Do people worship the beast or do they pay tribute? I hope everyone here knowns that the word “beast” is symbolic for the littlest nation. Also the number 666 is for a name “TITLE” of a man. P.S. the 4 beast in the King James of Revelations should have been translated; “The four living beings”.
There are 7 angels of the Lord, but of paticular importance was Jesus. Jesus was the Angel of the Lord who spoke to Moses and also Michael. When Jesus entered back into heaven he was no longer a Morning Star and the Angel of the Lord, but now the Bright Morning Star. It is important to notice the changes in terminology that come about; when something changes.One angel in particular was special – it bore the name of God (Ex 23:21). Speaking on behalf of God did not make the angel God Himself.
Quote (MichaelTheeArchAngel @ June 14 2006,18:35) Quote (MichaelTheeArchAngel @ June 12 2006,18:44) In the New Testament, the same word that is translated as “WORSHIP,” is also translated as “HONOR and PAY TRIBUTE”. Now I have a question?; Do people worship the beast or do they pay tribute? I hope everyone here knowns that the word “beast” is symbolic for the littlest nation. Also the number 666 is for a name “TITLE” of a man. P.S. the 4 beast in the King James of Revelations should have been translated; “The four living beings”.
There are 7 angels of the Lord, but of paticular importance was Jesus. Jesus was the Angel of the Lord who spoke to Moses and also Michael. When Jesus entered back into heaven he was no longer a Morning Star and the Angel of the Lord, but now the Bright Morning Star. It is important to notice the changes in terminology that come about; when something changes.
Hi Mike,
Jesus was not an angel.He was not created but the messengers were created through him as were all things. Read Herbrews 1-2.Quote (Sammo @ June 14 2006,20:54) One angel in particular was special – it bore the name of God (Ex 23:21). Speaking on behalf of God did not make the angel God Himself.
Hi sammo,
Since the Name represents the Person surely God was manifested by His Spirit in this angel of the Lord as with all the other myriad ways God can manifest?Quote The fact that God the Father no one has seen yet this angel was receiving worship from man and as i contrasted normal angels tell man to stop worshiping them because they are like them, but no correction is heard from the Angel of the LORD.
Oh, I see Moriet. The fact that the word “worship” is used in that Bible is extremely deceiving. (See “worship” thread.)The Greek word rendered “worship” is proskynéo, which 'A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature' says was also “used to designate the custom of prostrating oneself before a person and kissing his feet, the hem of his garment, the ground.” (Chicago, 1979, Bauer, Arndt, Gingrich, Danker; second English edition; p. 716)
The word translated in your Bible as worship doesn't have to mean worship but has a wide variety of meaning. Without doubt, sometimes that word “worship” has been put in places where it has not right being.
Example:MARK 15:19 (New King James Version)
“Then they struck Him on the head with a reed and spat on Him; and bowing the knee, they WORSHIPED Him.”
Many Bible's here have “paid homage to him,” or did “obeisance to him,” or something similar. Clearly, they were not spitting on him and at the same time worshiping him. The verse before (Mark 15:18) and Matthew 27:29 make clear that they “made fun” of him. It was in a mocking way that they did “obeisance to him,” bowing to him. They were not worshiping him and the context certainly doesn’t allow proskynéo to be translated as “worship” here.
CLEARLY, IT SHOULD NOT ALWAYS BE TRANSLATED AS “WORSHIP.”There is much much more information on this in the “worship” thread. Mistranslating this word “proskyneo” has caused a lot of confusion and is often based on trinitarian bias–making it appear as though Jesus should be worshipped when really, those words translated “worship” are also applied to other people in the scriptures as “honoured,” “bowed down to,” etc. The word has a wide meaning.
david.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 14 2006,21:43) Quote (MichaelTheeArchAngel @ June 14 2006,18:35) Quote (MichaelTheeArchAngel @ June 12 2006,18:44) In the New Testament, the same word that is translated as “WORSHIP,” is also translated as “HONOR and PAY TRIBUTE”. Now I have a question?; Do people worship the beast or do they pay tribute? I hope everyone here knowns that the word “beast” is symbolic for the littlest nation. Also the number 666 is for a name “TITLE” of a man. P.S. the 4 beast in the King James of Revelations should have been translated; “The four living beings”.
There are 7 angels of the Lord, but of paticular importance was Jesus. Jesus was the Angel of the Lord who spoke to Moses and also Michael. When Jesus entered back into heaven he was no longer a Morning Star and the Angel of the Lord, but now the Bright Morning Star. It is important to notice the changes in terminology that come about; when something changes.
Hi Mike,
Jesus was not an angel.He was not created but the messengers were created through him as were all things. Read Herbrews 1-2.
God our Father was and is the begining of life. The word Angel means “MESSENGER of GOD”. Jesus “YAHSHUA” was Gods messenger. The doctrine of Trinitarism was added to our bibles, first by the Catholics, then others.Hi Mike,
Angels are messengers
But not all messengers are angels
A donkey brought God's message to Balaam.
Was it an angel too?Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 15 2006,18:52) Hi Mike,
Angels are messengers
But not all messengers are angels
A donkey brought God's message to Balaam.
Was it an angel too?
A church is not a ANGEL, but it can be a messenger of God. OK. And so? Were you tired when you said that Nick? Thats Ok. Im going to leave, because I have a lot to do. Ill visit again some other time when I can find the time. Bye for now.
Hi Mike,
The bible is full of messengers of all kinds, mainly men. None of those men were angels.The bible states that Jesus was a man. Nowhere does it state he was an angel. That is falsehood to make such a claim.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 16 2006,21:44) Hi Mike,
The bible is full of messengers of all kinds, mainly men. None of those men were angels.The bible states that Jesus was a man. Nowhere does it state he was an angel. That is falsehood to make such a claim.
Its only a falsehood if is not true. The word Angel is a interpretation not a translation. The WORDS “messenger of God” is “”Interpretated”” as angel. TRANSLATION VS INTERPRETATION. And do not forget, there are many parables, riddles or symbolic words in the bible.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 17 2006,19:48) Hi Mike,
We search for the straight road and avoid the alleys of deception.
Alright Nick, you can have the last word.Hi Mike,
Jesus is the Life.
All creation came through him.
Angels are created beings.
They came into being through the Son of God.
Jesus was greater than the angels till coming as man
Jesus is again now greater than the angels
Jesus did not come into being through himself.
He was begotten of God in the beginning.Hebrews goes to great lengths to compare and contrast Christ with the angels. If he was one of them why would the author do this?
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