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Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 14 2010,01:25) Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 13 2010,05:10) So what do you believe in Kejonn? I thought you had spirituality?- you said.
I realize Stu doesnt believe in anything but Science.You are both really in need of depending on something higher than this (tiny) planet which is ruled by Humans.
They have done a pretty good job really. You can believe that too but we will see where Mans power will get us.
Have you also never heard of the Illuminati?
Spirituality does not relegate itself to the realm of revealed religions. It can be as simple as positing that we are all connected in some aspect to the universe, be it through energy and/or matter. For instance, going out on a sunny day is healthy as long as we protect ourselves from over-exposure. The sunlight helps the body to produce vitamin D. Sunlight also helps plants to grow, and the plants take in our carbon dioxide to produce oxygen that we breathe. These are but small examples, and none of them are imagined.Why does there have to be something higher than us? The universe itself is higher than us, but it is not a single living entity. Sure, there could be other sentient beings higher than us, but why speculate on what they are without any evidence that such a force or entity exists?
Our imaginations are powerful things. Many modern (and ancient) discoveries were made using the imagination as a starting point. The imagination is good for writing songs, books, and movie scripts that provide us with entertainment. But there really is not a whole lot of benefit in having imaginary friends.
How is “The Universe” higher than us? Does it have a conscious?What exactly does “The Universe” Do?
Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 14 2010,05:04) So you both agree with each other. You dont think anything could of created what you see and that it all just happened to happen
ohh-kayIf you were to set up a vegie garden, and go away
you should really also set up a watering system on a timer cause otherwise its dead.If you were an illegal marujuana grower in NZ you would also know the importance of setting it up right.
Most- to avoid getting caught, use a darkened room or building, and they need to set up artificial light, temperature, watering system and so on.If I go away the neighbour feeds my cat.I make sure I leave enough food and that its good food so he wont get sick.
Theres God and science explained in my unscientific mind, everything has been set up perfectly for us.
What Man does with that is another story.
Enough Nuclear weapons to destroy the whole planet three times over is enough for me to get.
Absolutely brilliant and scientific thinking as well.Evidence and proof is everywhere but like cattle they have no understanding.
Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 13 2010,20:52) Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 12 2010,21:01) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 13 2010,13:42) Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 12 2010,20:31) Kejonn; Fairies leprechauns and UFO's are all the imagination of todays fiction and tv writers. Didnt you know that.
Were it that easy. Many people swear they've either seen aliens or were abducted by them. They are serious about it. If I believe God is real, I must also believe aliens are real and that they abduct humans (but return them). Both God and aliens have the same amount of evidence pertaining to their reality.
25 And of them is he who hearkens to you, and We have cast veils over their hearts lest they understand it and a heaviness into their ears; and even if they see every sign they will not believe in it; so much so that when they come to you they only dispute with you; those who disbelieve say: This is naught but the stories of the ancients.( سورة الأنعام , Al-Anaam, Chapter #6, Verse #25)
Is this what you have been reduced to, casting spells from your book of magic?Yeah, I've seen the “signs”, but that was before science started to explain many of the mysteries of this universe. The god of the gaps is becoming less necessary every day.
Isn't there a difference between explaining something and being able to create that thing?Scientist have entire libraries on biology but can they make a single conscious individual from scratch? NO.
karmarie
Quote You are both really in need of depending on something higher than this (tiny) planet
We all depend on the sun. I guess that is why early gods were sun gods. Why do you not worship a sun god? That would make more sense from the point of view of the universe than worshipping a god that has you under 24 hour personal surveillance and is going to make you accountable for every suspect action that originated in the brain of perfect creation he allegedly gave you. You think you god wants to make you accountable even though that god is responsible for the architecture of your organ of decision-making. I can’t see how you would worship such a hypocritical dictator. Of course that whole story makes complete sense if you realise the political power to be gained by convincing people that there is such a god.Quote which is ruled by Humans.
Don’t believe it for a second. We are all ruled by microorganisms. It is they who have dominion over us. We can’t live without them and often they defeat us.[quoter]They have done a pretty good job really. You can believe that too but we will see where Mans power will get us.[/quote]
I think the main concerns are human greed for energy resources, especially that shown by the US (and NZ is not far behind), and religious brinkmanship led by fatuous idiots like John Hagee who see nuclear weapons as a way of hastening the end timesTM.On the other hand, many people are trying peace and reconciliation. Shame the religious nutcases are so obsessed with biblical fantasy delusions that the put they rest of us at high risk too.
Quote Have you also never heard of the Illuminati?
You are Dan Brown too, just like Ed!Stuart
karmarie
Quote You dont think anything could of created what you see and that it all just happened to happen
ohh-kay
Don’t forget that you think “that it all just happened to happen”! While science can give you the mechanisms and the evidence, you can give neither for your version.So ohh-kay yourself!
Quote If you were to set up a vegie garden, and go away
you should really also set up a watering system on a timer cause otherwise its dead.If you were an illegal marujuana grower in NZ you would also know the importance of setting it up right.
Most- to avoid getting caught, use a darkened room or building, and they need to set up artificial light, temperature, watering system and so on.If I go away the neighbour feeds my cat.I make sure I leave enough food and that its good food so he wont get sick.
Theres God and science explained in my unscientific mind, everything has been set up perfectly for us.
“Being surprised at the fact that the universe is fine tuned
for life is akin to a puddle being surprised at how well it
fits its hole”
– Douglas AdamsQuote Enough Nuclear weapons to destroy the whole planet three times over is enough for me to get.
Yes indeed. Don’t forget the names of those who would like to see them used.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Feb. 14 2010,06:55) karmarie You are Dan Brown too, just like Ed!
Stuart
Hi Stuart,I'm glad both you and BD see me on both sides of 'the divide'!
You have me Karmarie and this 'Dan Brown guy' on the “Other-Side” of your divide!
And BD has me and you on the “Other-Side” of his divide!That puts in a great position to “help” both sides!
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybibleocde.orgStu, how do we know your not actually a secret illuminati whos main agenda is to distract a few people and put them back on track
(reduce them back to the mind and behaviour of an animal!)
You believe in evolution- so do they.
They believe they- the high ones will evolve into something higher than human( just a matter of time now!)
While we all become animal slaves (well the ones who arent killed off) hmmmmm im starting to wonder about you now!Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 13 2010,12:23) How is “The Universe” higher than us? Does it have a conscious? What exactly does “The Universe” Do?
Ever heard of certain laws that define the way things work? Can you defy gravity? Can you break the law of conservation of matter? Can you break any of the thermodynamic laws?All of these laws govern our lives. That makes the universe much higher than any of us.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 13 2010,12:30) Isn't there a difference between explaining something and being able to create that thing? Scientist have entire libraries on biology but can they make a single conscious individual from scratch? NO.
Anh, but you have no evidence that anything was ever “created”, do you? You simply assert that they were. Since we do not know, we cannot make positive statements without having facts to back them up. Saying “goddidit” is not fact.Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 13 2010,12:04) So you both agree with each other. You dont think anything could of created what you see and that it all just happened to happen
ohh-kayIf you were to set up a vegie garden, and go away
you should really also set up a watering system on a timer cause otherwise its dead.If you were an illegal marujuana grower in NZ you would also know the importance of setting it up right.
Most- to avoid getting caught, use a darkened room or building, and they need to set up artificial light, temperature, watering system and so on.If I go away the neighbour feeds my cat.I make sure I leave enough food and that its good food so he wont get sick.
Theres God and science explained in my unscientific mind, everything has been set up perfectly for us.
What Man does with that is another story.
Enough Nuclear weapons to destroy the whole planet three times over is enough for me to get.
Why do you use domesticated examples? Plants and animals survive on their own when they are not of the domesticated variety. That is why you don't feed the bears at a park because then they become dependent on being fed as opposed to finding food for themselves.Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 14 2010,12:38) Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 13 2010,12:23) How is “The Universe” higher than us? Does it have a conscious? What exactly does “The Universe” Do?
Ever heard of certain laws that define the way things work? Can you defy gravity? Can you break the law of conservation of matter? Can you break any of the thermodynamic laws?All of these laws govern our lives. That makes the universe much higher than any of us.
So you are saying these laws are Absolute?Are these laws material or immaterial?
Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 13 2010,19:54) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 14 2010,12:38) Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 13 2010,12:23) How is “The Universe” higher than us? Does it have a conscious? What exactly does “The Universe” Do?
Ever heard of certain laws that define the way things work? Can you defy gravity? Can you break the law of conservation of matter? Can you break any of the thermodynamic laws?All of these laws govern our lives. That makes the universe much higher than any of us.
So you are saying these laws are Absolute?Are these laws material or immaterial?
As far as science has determined, these laws are absolute. Care to disprove them? And all of them are not unimportant, so no, not immaterial.Are you chasing rabbits?
Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 14 2010,12:54) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 14 2010,12:38) Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 13 2010,12:23) How is “The Universe” higher than us? Does it have a conscious? What exactly does “The Universe” Do?
Ever heard of certain laws that define the way things work? Can you defy gravity? Can you break the law of conservation of matter? Can you break any of the thermodynamic laws?All of these laws govern our lives. That makes the universe much higher than any of us.
So you are saying these laws are Absolute?Are these laws material or immaterial?
Just copying and pasting from RD.net:You also seem to operate under the very common delusion that simply because you can ask a particular question, that that question must have an answer. (Note the vagueness of your question and your continuous redefinition of the question to nullify answers given.)
Stuart
Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 14 2010,12:54) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 14 2010,12:38) Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 13 2010,12:23) How is “The Universe” higher than us? Does it have a conscious? What exactly does “The Universe” Do?
Ever heard of certain laws that define the way things work? Can you defy gravity? Can you break the law of conservation of matter? Can you break any of the thermodynamic laws?All of these laws govern our lives. That makes the universe much higher than any of us.
So you are saying these laws are Absolute?Are these laws material or immaterial?
The irony is that YOU are saying these laws are not absolute, because your Imaginary Friend would have to be “outside” them to do any creating.Stuart
Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 14 2010,15:32) Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 13 2010,19:54) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 14 2010,12:38) Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 13 2010,12:23) How is “The Universe” higher than us? Does it have a conscious? What exactly does “The Universe” Do?
Ever heard of certain laws that define the way things work? Can you defy gravity? Can you break the law of conservation of matter? Can you break any of the thermodynamic laws?All of these laws govern our lives. That makes the universe much higher than any of us.
So you are saying these laws are Absolute?Are these laws material or immaterial?
As far as science has determined, these laws are absolute. Care to disprove them? And all of them are not unimportant, so no, not immaterial.Are you chasing rabbits?
These laws are immaterail, they cannot be touched so they are spiritual absolutes.Quote (Stu @ Feb. 14 2010,15:41) Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 14 2010,12:54) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 14 2010,12:38) Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 13 2010,12:23) How is “The Universe” higher than us? Does it have a conscious? What exactly does “The Universe” Do?
Ever heard of certain laws that define the way things work? Can you defy gravity? Can you break the law of conservation of matter? Can you break any of the thermodynamic laws?All of these laws govern our lives. That makes the universe much higher than any of us.
So you are saying these laws are Absolute?Are these laws material or immaterial?
The irony is that YOU are saying these laws are not absolute, because your Imaginary Friend would have to be “outside” them to do any creating.Stuart
No, I am saying they are ABSOLUTEQuote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 13 2010,22:57) These laws are immaterail, they cannot be touched so they are spiritual absolutes.
Spiritual absolutes? Will you be chanting some voodoo curse next?Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 14 2010,15:58) Quote (Stu @ Feb. 14 2010,15:41) Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 14 2010,12:54) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 14 2010,12:38) Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 13 2010,12:23) How is “The Universe” higher than us? Does it have a conscious? What exactly does “The Universe” Do?
Ever heard of certain laws that define the way things work? Can you defy gravity? Can you break the law of conservation of matter? Can you break any of the thermodynamic laws?All of these laws govern our lives. That makes the universe much higher than any of us.
So you are saying these laws are Absolute?Are these laws material or immaterial?
The irony is that YOU are saying these laws are not absolute, because your Imaginary Friend would have to be “outside” them to do any creating.Stuart
No, I am saying they are ABSOLUTE
Let's check your belief that your god did not contravene the inverse square law of gravitation against the abrahamic creation myth.The myth says that god made the lights (stars) in the firmament within one day.
If we treat our own star as a typical 'light' being 'made' then you would start with a cloud of dust and gas about the same diameter as that of the orbit of Pluto. The amount of gas required to be accreted by gravitational collapse into a protostar for nuclear fusion in to begin is a minimum of about 80 times the mass of Jupiter. The protostar stage, which certainly would not be one giving off visible light, lasts in the order of at least 10,000 years.
So in order to 'create' stars in one day, the creator would have to break the law of gravitation to a massive degree.
By the way we know that the Newtonian law of gravity is only an approximation anyway, it is definitely not absolute because it does not describe gravity in terms of general relativity.
So did you mean to say Newtonian gravity is absolute, or can you tell us the unified theory that gives us the (absolute?) theory of quantum gravity? The eyes of the world's physicists are on you, the future winner of the Nobel Prize in physics.
Stuart
Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 14 2010,12:43) Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 13 2010,12:04) So you both agree with each other. You dont think anything could of created what you see and that it all just happened to happen
ohh-kayIf you were to set up a vegie garden, and go away
you should really also set up a watering system on a timer cause otherwise its dead.If you were an illegal marujuana grower in NZ you would also know the importance of setting it up right.
Most- to avoid getting caught, use a darkened room or building, and they need to set up artificial light, temperature, watering system and so on.If I go away the neighbour feeds my cat.I make sure I leave enough food and that its good food so he wont get sick.
Theres God and science explained in my unscientific mind, everything has been set up perfectly for us.
What Man does with that is another story.
Enough Nuclear weapons to destroy the whole planet three times over is enough for me to get.
Why do you use domesticated examples? Plants and animals survive on their own when they are not of the domesticated variety. That is why you don't feed the bears at a park because then they become dependent on being fed as opposed to finding food for themselves.
Kejonn if I used a domestic example that doesnt matter I was talking about the whole world in general, but using just a small example of how everything has been set up so perfectly.
The right amount of sunshine, the correct ammount of oxygen, light, water, rain, its too perfect to have 'just happened'How can you not believe in a creator?
Its like if I said “oh I was walking down the road today and there was this big bang and suddenly there was a washing machine there!”
It just doesnt happen! Theres always a designer and a maker of everything.
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