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Quote (Stu @ July 28 2011,21:58) Quote (terraricca @ July 28 2011,14:44) stu look what i found at the site you set me on ;
The universe began with a vast explosion that generated space and time, and XX created all XX the matter and energy in the universe. Exactly what triggered this sudden expansion remains a mystery.IF
and you talk about my scriptures ? and it seems you also believe in a creator ,right ? of cause a different one
Pierre
Would you say that a bomb could be called a creator, if it creates a big hole in the ground?Stuart
stuNO,but the fact that it is the beginning of your believe the mystery of the IF.
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ July 28 2011,15:00) Quote (Stu @ July 28 2011,21:58) Quote (terraricca @ July 28 2011,14:44) stu look what i found at the site you set me on ;
The universe began with a vast explosion that generated space and time, and XX created all XX the matter and energy in the universe. Exactly what triggered this sudden expansion remains a mystery.IF
and you talk about my scriptures ? and it seems you also believe in a creator ,right ? of cause a different one
Pierre
Would you say that a bomb could be called a creator, if it creates a big hole in the ground?Stuart
stuNO,but the fact that it is the beginning of your believe the mystery of the IF.
Pierre
Translation, please? Into English grammar, ideally.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ July 28 2011,22:02) Quote (terraricca @ July 28 2011,15:00) Quote (Stu @ July 28 2011,21:58) Quote (terraricca @ July 28 2011,14:44) stu look what i found at the site you set me on ;
The universe began with a vast explosion that generated space and time, and XX created all XX the matter and energy in the universe. Exactly what triggered this sudden expansion remains a mystery.IF
and you talk about my scriptures ? and it seems you also believe in a creator ,right ? of cause a different one
Pierre
Would you say that a bomb could be called a creator, if it creates a big hole in the ground?Stuart
stuNO,but the fact that it is the beginning of your believe the mystery of the IF.
Pierre
Translation, please? Into English grammar, ideally.Stuart
studo you not remember our quotes ?
do you play chess ?
pierre
Quote (terraricca @ July 28 2011,15:12) Quote (Stu @ July 28 2011,22:02) Quote (terraricca @ July 28 2011,15:00) Quote (Stu @ July 28 2011,21:58) Quote (terraricca @ July 28 2011,14:44) stu look what i found at the site you set me on ;
The universe began with a vast explosion that generated space and time, and XX created all XX the matter and energy in the universe. Exactly what triggered this sudden expansion remains a mystery.IF
and you talk about my scriptures ? and it seems you also believe in a creator ,right ? of cause a different one
Pierre
Would you say that a bomb could be called a creator, if it creates a big hole in the ground?Stuart
stuNO,but the fact that it is the beginning of your believe the mystery of the IF.
Pierre
Translation, please? Into English grammar, ideally.Stuart
studo you not remember our quotes ?
do you play chess ?
pierre
Are you going to explain yourself or not?Stuart
stu
Quote Would you say that a bomb could be called a creator, if it creates a big hole in the ground? answer NO.
Quote The universe began with a vast explosion that generated space and time, and XX created all XX the matter and energy in the universe. Exactly what triggered this sudden expansion remains a mystery.IF
answer;but the fact that it is the beginning of your believe the mystery of the “IF”remember evolution is based on “IF”
no one knowsPierre
Quote (terraricca @ July 28 2011,16:02) stu Quote Would you say that a bomb could be called a creator, if it creates a big hole in the ground? answer NO.
Quote The universe began with a vast explosion that generated space and time, and XX created all XX the matter and energy in the universe. Exactly what triggered this sudden expansion remains a mystery.IF
answer;but the fact that it is the beginning of your believe the mystery of the “IF”remember evolution is based on “IF”
no one knowsPierre
Evolution of what? Life? The cosmos? The solar system?If you mean biological evolution, you are wrong. There is no IF, AND or BUT about that. It is as proved as anything is. Evolution is the fact of the changes in living things evident in the fossil record and independently present in molecular evidence from DNA. There is no question that happened.
Despite the pages and pages of posting you have done here, you certainly have not asked a single question that places any doubt on any aspect of Darwin's brilliant theory. That is why I asked you to list your supposed “hundreds of IFs”. If you can't then I stand by my claim that you have four IFs and I have two, and therefore you have lost the IFs argument.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ July 28 2011,23:12) Quote (terraricca @ July 28 2011,16:02) stu Quote Would you say that a bomb could be called a creator, if it creates a big hole in the ground? answer NO.
Quote The universe began with a vast explosion that generated space and time, and XX created all XX the matter and energy in the universe. Exactly what triggered this sudden expansion remains a mystery.IF
answer;but the fact that it is the beginning of your believe the mystery of the “IF”remember evolution is based on “IF”
no one knowsPierre
Evolution of what? Life? The cosmos? The solar system?If you mean biological evolution, you are wrong. There is no IF, AND or BUT about that. It is as proved as anything is. Evolution is the fact of the changes in living things evident in the fossil record and independently present in molecular evidence from DNA. There is no question that happened.
Despite the pages and pages of posting you have done here, you certainly have not asked a single question that places any doubt on any aspect of Darwin's brilliant theory. That is why I asked you to list your supposed “hundreds of IFs”. If you can't then I stand by my claim that you have four IFs and I have two, and therefore you have lost the IFs argument.
Stuart
stuIF there is no evolution in the universe there is no evolution anywhere,
before big bang there is what ? nothing ? dead ?
if the big bang is true then it is not started by evolution but by something else and that's the great question
what is it ?and i have no problem with people explaining how men is made but it is hard to see your evolution wen it s base is a “IF”
the i see it there should not a IF,
but tell me my 4 IFs
Pierre
stu
Quote IF there is no evolution in the universe there is no evolution anywhere,
Well there is biological evolution, so there is no IF there.Quote before big bang there is what ? nothing ? dead ?
Already explained that. No such thing as “before” the Big Bang.Quote if the big bang is true then it is not started by evolution but by something else and that's the great question what is it ?
The Big Bang is not a living organism, so biological evolution does not apply to it. There is a gap of nearly 10 billion years between the Big Bang and the appearance of life on earth.Quote and i have no problem with people explaining how men is made but it is hard to see your evolution wen it s base is a “IF”
Just because it is hard for you does not mean it is in question.Quote the i see it there should not a IF, but tell me my 4 IFs
Can’t you call them assumptions? I can’t remember you constructing a properly logical If…then statement anywhere. You are barely capable of stringing words together in grammatical structures, let alone using logic. They are assumptions, so let’s call them that. Then you don’t need the logical “then” which you have never been able to use anyway.1. You assume you do actually exist
2. You assume that what you see is what you get—at this point we all have these two assumptions in common. These cannot be proven either way, in the proper sense of the word prove—
Here are your two extras:
3. You assume a supernatural being with agency exists
4. You assume you can know what that supernatural being did, or what it wantsStuart
stu
Quote Well there is biological evolution, so there is no IF there. if the source is IF then all is IF
Quote Already explained that. No such thing as “before” the Big Bang. sorry, if there is a after there is a before , and before is mystery and IF.
Quote The Big Bang is not a living organism, so biological evolution does not apply to it. There is a gap of nearly 10 billion years between the Big Bang and the appearance of life on earth. the same with before and after, you like to start where there is a start of something but you have no foundation on before and so it is your story ? mystery and IF s.no sale
Quote Just because it is hard for you does not mean it is in question. I do understand that someone is telling me a good mystery story ,based on IF s.
Quote Can’t you call them assumptions? I can’t remember you constructing a properly logical If…then statement anywhere. You are barely capable of stringing words together in grammatical structures, let alone using logic. They are assumptions, so let’s call them that. Then you don’t need the logical “then” which you have never been able to use anyway. I do not go see movies like STAR WAR and go home and believing that it is a true story,
foundation in your story start with MYSTERY AND IF S ,so i do not believe it and for that you discredit me ? I am not a 3year old and that was the year i stop believing in santa,
Quote 3. You assume a supernatural being with agency exists
4. You assume you can know what that supernatural being did, or what it wants#3 could you express it in more details ,
#4 the answer is yes
Pierre
terraricca
Quote if the source is IF then all is IF
No, you’re wrong. It makes no difference how matter and energy came to be, regardless of that other theory, Darwin’s theory is still true.Quote sorry, if there is a after there is a before , and before is mystery and IF.
How can there be a “before” in the condition of time not existing?Quote the same with before and after, you like to start where there is a start of something but you have no foundation on before and so it is your story ? mystery and IF s.no sale
What is a “foundation”? Why does there need to be one of those?Quote I do not go see movies like STAR WAR and go home and believing that it is a true story,
Yes you do. You quote from a book that asserts snakes and donkeys can talk and that giants roamed the earth, leaving no skeletal remains. Star Wars is far more plausible than that.Quote foundation in your story start with MYSTERY AND IF S ,so i do not believe it and for that you discredit me ? I am not a 3year old and that was the year i stop believing in santa,
Yes, I discredit you. You have nothing to say. Should saying nothing deserve credit?I see belief in Santa, and belief in gods as pretty much the same thing, except Santa is a contraction of the name of an historical figure that actually existed.
Quote #3 could you express it in more details ,
You assume there is a god that can do things.Quote #4 the answer is yes
OK. So unless you can list these “hundreds” of assumptions of mine / science you alleged earlier, you have four assumptions and I have two. So it is not a matter of IF science is right, so much as a matter of whether you can reasonably claim that things happen IF a god exists. I’d like to get rid of my two assumptions if I possibly could. Would you like to get rid of your third and fourth assumptions? If not, then you have really shot yourself in the foot when it comes to your IFs nonsense. You have more of those than I do. When you can say that you will disregard your god assumptions for the purpose of conversation, and you will go where the data leads, wherever it leads, then you might have something to say. But I bet you can’t do that. You live in a psychological box without windows that you spend 50 years constructing.Stuart
stu
Quote OK. So unless you can list these “hundreds” of assumptions of mine / science you alleged earlier, you have four assumptions and I have two. So it is not a matter of IF science is right, so much as a matter of whether you can reasonably claim that things happen IF a god exists. I’d like to get rid of my two assumptions if I possibly could. Would you like to get rid of your third and fourth assumptions? If not, then you have really shot yourself in the foot when it comes to your IFs nonsense. You have more of those than I do. When you can say that you will disregard your god assumptions for the purpose of conversation, and you will go where the data leads, wherever it leads, then you might have something to say. But I bet you can’t do that. You live in a psychological box without windows that you spend 50 years constructing. this is non sense ,tell me witch one of us men does not live in his box ?on this we all are .no star here,
Quote You assume there is a god that can do things.xxxYes you do. You quote from a book that asserts snakes and donkeys can talk and that giants roamed the earth, leaving no skeletal remains. Star Wars is far more plausible than that. those quotes mean the same ting,
Quote Yes, I discredit you. You have nothing to say. Should saying nothing deserve credit? when you point your finger toward others you still have three fingers pointing at you,so i will have one discredit while you have three,
you can not justify before and only like to take me to the after this is a salesman tactic,no ,no sale
at best you and I have two IF s
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ July 29 2011,00:36) stu Quote OK. So unless you can list these “hundreds” of assumptions of mine / science you alleged earlier, you have four assumptions and I have two. So it is not a matter of IF science is right, so much as a matter of whether you can reasonably claim that things happen IF a god exists. I’d like to get rid of my two assumptions if I possibly could. Would you like to get rid of your third and fourth assumptions? If not, then you have really shot yourself in the foot when it comes to your IFs nonsense. You have more of those than I do. When you can say that you will disregard your god assumptions for the purpose of conversation, and you will go where the data leads, wherever it leads, then you might have something to say. But I bet you can’t do that. You live in a psychological box without windows that you spend 50 years constructing. this is non sense ,tell me witch one of us men does not live in his box ?on this we all are .no star here,
Quote You assume there is a god that can do things.xxxYes you do. You quote from a book that asserts snakes and donkeys can talk and that giants roamed the earth, leaving no skeletal remains. Star Wars is far more plausible than that. those quotes mean the same ting,
Quote Yes, I discredit you. You have nothing to say. Should saying nothing deserve credit? when you point your finger toward others you still have three fingers pointing at you,so i will have one discredit while you have three,
you can not justify before and only like to take me to the after this is a salesman tactic,no ,no sale
at best you and I have two IF s
Pierre
So have you abandoned Descartes or the assumption of god?If the latter, then we can talk. If the former then why would we discuss anything from a point of not believing that we existed or that our observations meant anything?
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ July 29 2011,13:40) Quote (terraricca @ July 29 2011,00:36) stu Quote OK. So unless you can list these “hundreds” of assumptions of mine / science you alleged earlier, you have four assumptions and I have two. So it is not a matter of IF science is right, so much as a matter of whether you can reasonably claim that things happen IF a god exists. I’d like to get rid of my two assumptions if I possibly could. Would you like to get rid of your third and fourth assumptions? If not, then you have really shot yourself in the foot when it comes to your IFs nonsense. You have more of those than I do. When you can say that you will disregard your god assumptions for the purpose of conversation, and you will go where the data leads, wherever it leads, then you might have something to say. But I bet you can’t do that. You live in a psychological box without windows that you spend 50 years constructing. this is non sense ,tell me witch one of us men does not live in his box ?on this we all are .no star here,
Quote You assume there is a god that can do things.xxxYes you do. You quote from a book that asserts snakes and donkeys can talk and that giants roamed the earth, leaving no skeletal remains. Star Wars is far more plausible than that. those quotes mean the same ting,
Quote Yes, I discredit you. You have nothing to say. Should saying nothing deserve credit? when you point your finger toward others you still have three fingers pointing at you,so i will have one discredit while you have three,
you can not justify before and only like to take me to the after this is a salesman tactic,no ,no sale
at best you and I have two IF s
Pierre
So have you abandoned Descartes or the assumption of god?If the latter, then we can talk. If the former then why would we discuss anything from a point of not believing that we existed or that our observations meant anything?
Stuart
stuDescartes says :I think so I am “
what do you have against that ?
Pierre
stu
Quote If the latter, then we can talk. If the former then why would we discuss anything from a point of not believing that we existed or that our observations meant anything? Stuart
I would have give you a better choice but it seems you do not know Descartes and also do not know God the creator ,
you know religion ,and believe that God and religion is one but it is not they are far apart like to the moon
so it would be difficult to talk to you because of your miss Concepcion of God ,
and your satisfaction with the IF s in your evolution theory,
so be it
Pierre
Do you realise that the first assumption I listed was the Descartian one?
You haven't disproved Darwin's theory, and it is falsifiable (meaning that if it was wrong you could show it was wrong) so you have actually nothing to say about it that has any relevance. In fact the one thing that has shown through strongly is that you are entirely ignorant of any science. So how do you have the brass to whine on about things you don't understand, saying nothing of any merit about them?
As I think I mentioned to someone else earlier, you won't catch me posting on the subject of the different causes for the spate of schisms in the christian churches towards the end of the first millennium because…
…I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT!
Apparently you do not believe that knowledge is a prerequisite for forming an opinion. Don't know how such a person could call himself a good citizen.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ July 30 2011,00:04) Do you realise that the first assumption I listed was the Descartian one? You haven't disproved Darwin's theory, and it is falsifiable (meaning that if it was wrong you could show it was wrong) so you have actually nothing to say about it that has any relevance. In fact the one thing that has shown through strongly is that you are entirely ignorant of any science. So how do you have the brass to whine on about things you don't understand, saying nothing of any merit about them?
As I think I mentioned to someone else earlier, you won't catch me posting on the subject of the different causes for the spate of schisms in the christian churches towards the end of the first millennium because…
…I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT!
Apparently you do not believe that knowledge is a prerequisite for forming an opinion. Don't know how such a person could call himself a good citizen.
Stuart
stusince you have taken a moment of reflection and have so satisfied your ego,
what i have said stands your mystery of IF” and so make me understand that you are a good auto mechanics that never learn to drive, because he did not trust the things he can fix,as for Descartes ,you have no idea of what the man ever said or done ,first assumption and it was wrong,
you assume that a house that is without foundation can stand in the air,
Darwin's foundation are non existent , because if the foundation does not exist then the house does not either,
the key foundation of all evolution theory is the big bang ,and there for its foundation are a IF” and MYSTERY ,so DEAD.
the fact that science as find many ways to come to the understanding of how thing have been made and how to calculate and play with deep knowledge in nuclear things or biology,it does not make a difference to the foundation of Darwin's theory ,it was and will remain false forever,
it is just a opposition to refuse to accept the truth of a creator,so no star,my friend,
Quote Apparently you do not believe that knowledge is a prerequisite for forming an opinion. Don't know how such a person could call himself a good citizen. you are totally right but you could be totally wrong as well,
IT IS THE SORT OF KNOWLEDGE THAT MAKES THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A GOOD AND A BAD CITIZEN.
so with this thought i close my argument and call it a evening and a morning ,
Pierre
terraricca
Quote since you have taken a moment of reflection and have so satisfied your ego,
what i have said stands your mystery of IF”
Are you interested in being scientifically literate, or just hypocritically throwing stones at the ideas which underpin your everyday existence? If you REALLY believe this nonsense, then you should post a video of you going into your doctor’s surgery and telling him that you think he is a FRAUD because Western medicine is invalid, based as it is in science that only makes provisional conclusions.Why does science only make provisional conclusions? Because it is important to be open to data that corrects. And what does that new data correct? Almost all the time it corrects tiny details, it refines. New data very rarely revolutionises. You have not posted anything that revolutionises science, all you have done is to bite your dentist’s hand like a poorly-behaved 4 year old.
Meantime you promote a way of thinking that would have us all living short, miserable lives as was common in the Dark Ages. You promote knowledge that has no correction mechanism.
Quote and so make me understand that you are a good auto mechanics that never learn to drive, because he did not trust the things he can fix,
Exactly what I was saying to you. Post that video. Tell that doctor his profession is based on “IFs”. But before you do, you could retract what has been proven wrong, namely that science is based on more untestable assumptions than you use in your life. That is one big pile of stones that you are denying you have thrown.Quote as for Descartes ,you have no idea of what the man ever said or done ,first assumption and it was wrong,
Please go back and read, and think. Ergo cogito sum. I pretty much translated that into English, with a bit of empiricism thrown in. You assume you exist because you can think. Descartes did not prove his own existence by that, it must be a working assumption. But if you are determined to eliminate it, then I have one assumption remaining and you have three.Quote you assume that a house that is without foundation can stand in the air, Darwin's foundation are non existent , because if the foundation does not exist then the house does not either,
the key foundation of all evolution theory is the big bang ,and there for its foundation are a IF” and MYSTERY ,so DEAD.
I already asked you to define what you meant by foundation. Please do so.Quote the fact that science as find many ways to come to the understanding of how thing have been made and how to calculate and play with deep knowledge in nuclear things or biology,it does not make a difference to the foundation of Darwin's theory ,it was and will remain false forever,
it is just a opposition to refuse to accept the truth of a creator,
You should tell that to the 40% of biologists that use Darwin’s theory in their work and are also theists. Meantime, I’m still waiting for you to tell me what “foundation” means the way you use it. If you can’t do that then you’ve said nothing.Most biologists would say that Darwin provided the only foundation their discipline has. Evolution by natural selection is the central organising idea of biology, the only thing that makes any sense. No creationist has ever said anything about biology that makes any sense: ideas of creation could be no “foundation” of anything. There is no theory of creation.
Quote IT IS THE SORT OF KNOWLEDGE THAT MAKES THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A GOOD AND A BAD CITIZEN.
I agree. The kind of “knowledge” contained in Romans 1:26-27, 1:32, for example I think makes a very poor citizen. Of course it is not really knowledge, but Americans would claim it is.Stuart
Some interesting graphs. The darker the shade of violet the greater the more god believers there are:
Stuart
stu
Quote Are you interested in being scientifically literate, or just hypocritically throwing stones at the ideas which underpin your everyday existence? if you read at first quote we where discussing the theory of evolution, and so we did and to my understanding you have only one point and it is the same as mine ;you can not prove that evolution really happen because if you go all a way to before the big bang you would accept that there was something and that could God,
on the other hand ,I can not prove to you that God exist for the simple reason that God his spirit and so not matter and there I got you lost ,because you only suppose to believe what you can touch or logically understand ,and so you have also one point
and your map is of no importance to me most of those religion are not really Christians
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ July 30 2011,10:52) stu Quote Are you interested in being scientifically literate, or just hypocritically throwing stones at the ideas which underpin your everyday existence? if you read at first quote we where discussing the theory of evolution, and so we did and to my understanding you have only one point and it is the same as mine ;you can not prove that evolution really happen because if you go all a way to before the big bang you would accept that there was something and that could God,
on the other hand ,I can not prove to you that God exist for the simple reason that God his spirit and so not matter and there I got you lost ,because you only suppose to believe what you can touch or logically understand ,and so you have also one point
and your map is of no importance to me most of those religion are not really Christians
Pierre
You still haven't said what it is we are talking about.The evolution of what?
This god thing, how does it interact with matter if it is not matter?
Stuart
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