- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (Stu @ July 25 2011,01:47) Quote (terraricca @ July 24 2011,17:02) stu Quote Regarding evolution, I do not have to pay any attention to others' interpretations if I don't want to. I can read the papers that quote the raw data for potassium-argon dating, and do the calculations myself. I can go to a paleontological museum and measure the capacities of the craniums for myself and compare them with the dates I calculated. first i do not pay attention to other interpretations only my bible ,
but now your data on evolution is based on the story that men have made possible with elaborated terminology so that the common man looses his own house address,
and if you pay attention to their orthography writings,WE CAN FIND WORDS LIKE ; if true ;restricted understanding,many theories are open; could be,and others in this direction,I will not built my house on that info.
Pierre
So many big words and so little of the walk that accompanies that talk. Give back those medicines. Return your car keys and your car to the dealer. It's ironic that you mention your house, for it is built almost entirely on these things on which you will not build your house.Your profile on another website says you have been studying the bible for 50 years. So I must commend your relatively late interest in science, but it appears that you have no love and your voice is a clanging cymbal because you don't really know what it is you are against. You take the benefits of science and yet bite the hand that science extends to you.
Are you really 4 years old, or is it that your moral compass not point in the direction of integrity?
You bang on in a simplistic way about the untrustworthiness of anything done by humans, and yet here you are asking me questions and relying on the contents of a book of mythology that was entirely written by… about 100 different humans. And in the same breath you criticise scientific knowledge that is specifically NOT based in opinions of individual humans, but is carefully done so no person's word is relied on. It could ALL be investigated by you yourself, at least in principle. The translation of the motto of the Royal Society in London is Take no one's word for it. That sounds like what you have been advocating, but when it comes down to it, once again your faith card comes out and you invoke a book that discusses unicorns and humans walking again after they have died.
Do you understand the dilemma you have made for yourself?
Stuart
stuI just wanted to point out that what you believe is a made up story and cannot be proven otherwise as for the reader to believe the writers'
you have believe the story of men in evolution,
on the other side I have believed the story of writers that have written abode there God that is a creator,
and so yes I have believed those men because it make sense to me ,at the least more sense than the evolution story what like i told you, I have study 50 years ago very deep but then I have move on from there,
it is when you look all the scientific disciplines that you can really see what is wrong with that story,
and I do understand you vue point dont get me wrong,
Pierre
stu
Quote we are talking about facts which are available to anyone with enough persistence. evolution is not a fact ,it is at best a good story to the ignorant as an alternative to the bible or the believe in a God who is a creator,
your view toward my believe in God and the bible ,is any better for your story of evolution,if you believe it to be true then you must be 3 years old,that is listen to is daddy telling a story about santa.
Pierre
terraricca
Quote I just wanted to point out that what you believe is a made up story and cannot be proven otherwise as for the reader to believe the writers'
Huh? Again, this time in English?Quote you have believe the story of men in evolution,
That is because it is a proven record of what happened. You have not disproved a single aspect of it.Quote on the other side I have believed the story of writers that have written abode there God that is a creator, and so yes I have believed those men because it make sense to me ,at the least more sense than the evolution story what like i told you, I have study 50 years ago very deep but then I have move on from there,
Oh, so now we move from the faith trump card to the “makes sense to me” model. Let me tell you why it makes sense to you:1.You have made an enormous emotional investment your fantasy story of Imaginary Friends, this is how you have been patterning your brain by repeated reinforcement for half a century. It is a matter of pride to you that you cannot see christianity for what it really is.
2.You are lazy, you cannot be bothered to find out what science really says, you just read creationist websites and accept their lies. Is lying for god an important part of christianity? Those creationists are liars by omission because they only select the data points that appear to fit their fantasy story. A real scientist explains ALL the data.
3.You have a human brain that voraciously seeks patterns, and finds them even where there are no patterns. Humans are really poor at understanding probability, so they see some kind of underlying intent when it is really that they have been conned by normal coincidence.You really do not understand your own dilemma. Have you ever told your doctor that you doubt he is right because he is relying on the stories of men? Of course you haven’t, you are just full of big words on religious forums, playing to the crowd.
Quote it is when you look all the scientific disciplines that you can really see what is wrong with that story,
You don’t know what you are talking about, do you. You don’t have the FIRST CLUE about “scientific disciplines”. You wouldn’t know scientific discipline if it disguised itself as a donkey and came up to you for a chat.So, if you are not a hypocrite, explain to be EXACTLY what “scientific disciplines” know that contradicts Darwin.
Quote and I do understand you vue point dont get me wrong,
My view point is that you have nothing to say. Is that what you understood? My point of view is that you don’t have a very deep understanding of how your scriptures fit into historical context. Is that what you understood too?Quote evolution is not a fact ,
Yes it is. It is the fact evident in the fossil record, independently matched by the molecular evidence from DNA.Quote it is at best a good story to the ignorant as an alternative to the bible or the believe in a God who is a creator,
What is a god? What exactly did it do?Quote your view toward my believe in God and the bible ,is any better for your story of evolution,if you believe it to be true then you must be 3 years old,that is listen to is daddy telling a story about santa.
Can’t you get your own material instead of copying mine?Stuart
stu
Quote
you have believe the story of men in evolution,That is because it is a proven record of what happened. You have not disproved a single aspect of it.
===========================================================
yes I showed you that it is many “ifs ,and “possibilities ” and uncertain”
sorry but that is what it is .
Pierre
stu
Quote I just wanted to point out that what you believe is a made up story and cannot be proven otherwise as for the reader to believe the writers' Huh? Again, this time in English?
it is in English
Quote (terraricca @ July 25 2011,10:00) stu Quote
you have believe the story of men in evolution,That is because it is a proven record of what happened. You have not disproved a single aspect of it.
===========================================================
yes I showed you that it is many “ifs ,and “possibilities ” and uncertain”
sorry but that is what it is .
Pierre
No, you showed me that abiogenesis is uncertain, which is what I had already pointed out.Show me how evolution by natural selection is uncertain.
Give me even one single alternative explanation that is consistent with the evidence. Then line up on the stage at the academy of sciences in Stockholm and claim your Nobel Prize.There are no other “possibilities” of which I am aware.
Stuart
Quote (terraricca @ July 25 2011,10:01) stu Quote I just wanted to point out that what you believe is a made up story and cannot be proven otherwise as for the reader to believe the writers' Huh? Again, this time in English?
it is in English
You used English words, but not English grammar.Stuart
stu
Quote Oh, so now we move from the faith trump card to the “makes sense to me” model. Let me tell you why it makes sense to you: Quote 1. You have made an enormous emotional investment your fantasy story of Imaginary Friends, this is how you have been patterning your brain by repeated reinforcement for half a century. It is a matter of pride to you that you cannot see christianity for what it really is. 1)I have nothing to do with the beast of Christianity,and I am far of being a emotional individual,you may call me more as a puritan,for the truth of scriptures.
Quote 2. You are lazy, you cannot be bothered to find out what science really says, you just read creationist websites and accept their lies. Is lying for god an important part of christianity? Those creationists are liars by omission because they only select the data points that appear to fit their fantasy story. A real scientist explains ALL the data. 2)you are trying now to get me in a pissing mach NO GO,
how do you know that I am a lazy ?did i met you some were if not why do you lie ?
NO ,i do not go to creationist website and you are right there are many lies there.A real scientist explains ALL the data so you say,this is not true what they do not know they skip,or declare their ignorance about it,like I showed you.
Quote 3. You have a human brain that voraciously seeks patterns, and finds them even where there are no patterns. Humans are really poor at understanding probability, so they see some kind of underlying intent when it is really that they have been conned by normal coincidence. well it is because a probability is not a fact but a possibility of facts but no one knows the true outcome before hand ,
so it is like the game of roulette,You have a human ” are you not a human ?
so you have some vision of your own ?as you say; so they see some kind of underlying intent when it is really that they have been conned by normal coincidence.
Quote You really do not understand your own dilemma. Have you ever told your doctor that you doubt he is right because he is relying on the stories of men? Of course you haven’t, you are just full of big words on religious forums, playing to the crowd. the dilemma in debate is not data it is how they present the data,
and to me my doctor is just like my mecanique who fix my car ,he knows what to do when it broken but I know my car better than he does because I the who drive it for 5 years and so it is with my doctor when I feel not good he can help,but I know my body way better than he does I have wear it for 71 years,as far as I know we have not discuss religion because i do not care about organized religion,but i do care about God s word
and for many reasons.Quote You don’t know what you are talking about, do you. You don’t have the FIRST CLUE about “scientific disciplines”. for your information i am not that dumb i went to school for a little while,and was associated with chemists,
Quote My point of view is that you don’t have a very deep understanding of how your scriptures fit into historical context. well this i am ready any time you want to discuss it ,but we both will agree to honesty.
Quote Yes it is. It is the fact evident in the fossil record, independently matched by the molecular evidence from DNA. DNA is the stamp that says this is you,or what ever DNA you pick,you remove anything of it ;it is no longer what it was .
this is one of the problems that is to overcome by scientist evolution,
given to evolution the credit of creating those marvelous millions of DNA structures is like telling to people that Santa comes trough the chimney,and if you left your old car parked out side in time it will become new again.Quote What is a god? What exactly did it do? you are not ready for that answer but when you will be you will no longer ask that question.
Quote Can’t you get your own material instead of copying mine? you should know that we have nothing in this world that is ours ,we always take something that has already belong to others.
when you think it is new ,it is not it is only another version of the old,
Pierre
Quote (Stu @ July 25 2011,17:04) Quote (terraricca @ July 25 2011,10:00) stu Quote
you have believe the story of men in evolution,That is because it is a proven record of what happened. You have not disproved a single aspect of it.
===========================================================
yes I showed you that it is many “ifs ,and “possibilities ” and uncertain”
sorry but that is what it is .
Pierre
No, you showed me that abiogenesis is uncertain, which is what I had already pointed out.Show me how evolution by natural selection is uncertain.
Give me even one single alternative explanation that is consistent with the evidence. Then line up on the stage at the academy of sciences in Stockholm and claim your Nobel Prize.There are no other “possibilities” of which I am aware.
Stuart
stuI told you evolution is not one thing it is the entire system of live,
chemistry,biology,physics,and the other 20 or 50 names or more,
and is part of the theory of the big bang,
Pierre
Quote (Stu @ July 25 2011,17:05) Quote (terraricca @ July 25 2011,10:01) stu Quote I just wanted to point out that what you believe is a made up story and cannot be proven otherwise as for the reader to believe the writers' Huh? Again, this time in English?
it is in English
You used English words, but not English grammar.Stuart
stuyou have problems think about me then
Pierre
terraricca
Quote 1)I have nothing to do with the beast of Christianity,and I am far of being a emotional individual,you may call me more as a puritan,for the truth of scriptures.
The point was that you have an enormous emotional investment in this mythology. Long ago you began to believe your own rhetoric, no doubt reinforced by your conversations about the emperor’s new clothes with other courtiers of the same kind. Your brain’s connections are so hard-wired into that mode of thinking that you can no longer criticise it with any kind of objectivity.Remember, I would be quite happy to be proved wrong. That would mean radical and interesting new learning was ahead of me. You cannot afford that possibility due to the emotional investment you have made. That is why you have nothing of merit to say.
Quote A real scientist explains ALL the data so you say,this is not true what they do not know they skip,or declare their ignorance about it,like I showed you.
Declaring ignorance is NOT the same thing as explaining the data. In the case of abiogenesis we have attempted explanations with the limited data we have. That is why there is no scientific theory of abiogenesis. In the case of evolution by natural selection, there was untold data to begin with, and Darwin just pieced together what many had already worked out for themselves, and EVERY piece of data since has fit his theory. If you cannot give me an example of a piece of data that does not fit then you have nothing to say about it.Quote well it is because a probability is not a fact but a possibility of facts but no one knows the true outcome before hand ,so it is like the game of roulette,
You demonstrate my point perfectly.Quote the dilemma in debate is not data it is how they present the data,
I agree. Creationists lie by concealing the evidence that contradicts their position.Quote and to me my doctor is just like my mecanique who fix my car ,he knows what to do when it broken but I know my car better than he does because I the who drive it for 5 years and so it is with my doctor when I feel not good he can help,but I know my body way better than he does I have wear it for 71 years,
And he helps you using the knowledge of humans, which you accept in the doctor’s surgery but hypocritically reject when you are posting on forums like this. Your bluff is called.Quote as far as I know we have not discuss religion because i do not care about organized religion,but i do care about God s word and for many reasons.
Is that the same “god’s word” that was written down by humans, and contains the error-filled thinking of those ancient humans?Quote for your information i am not that dumb i went to school for a little while,and was associated with chemists,
I didn’t say you were dumb, I said you don’t have the first clue about scientific disciplines. If you knew anything you would be able to criticise science on its own terms. But you have nothing to say.Quote well this i am ready any time you want to discuss it ,but we both will agree to honesty.
Do you have in mind the same honesty that says you will go by your bible no matter what? How is that honest?Let’s see if you really know your scripture in historical context. Tell me about the Noachian Flood in those terms.
Quote DNA is the stamp that says this is you,or what ever DNA you pick,you remove anything of it ;it is no longer what it was .
So you don’t know what DNA does, even.this is one of the problems that is to overcome by scientist evolution,
given to evolution the credit of creating those marvelous millions of DNA structures is like telling to people that Santa comes trough the chimney,and if you left your old car parked out side in time it will become new again.
You say nothing. That’s because you know nothing. That’s because you are too lazy to investigate it. You ask questions then mock the answers from a position of ignorance. Your voice is a clanging cymbal because you do not have love for genuine discovery, you only have years of mindless patterned behaviour which hypocritically rejects the validity of that on which you rely every single day.Quote you are not ready for that answer but when you will be you will no longer ask that question.
So you are not even prepared to defend your god? Can’t be worth very much. I think you might be running scared now. You can’t show me what a god is, or explain what it did, and you cannot criticise science on its own terms. You have nothing at all to say on either subject by the look of it.Quote I told you evolution is not one thing it is the entire system of live, chemistry,biology,physics,and the other 20 or 50 names or more,
and is part of the theory of the big bang,
There is cosmic evolution, stellar evolution, biological evolution, and others, and they are all distinctly different scientific theories, but you are just lumping them under one word.Lazy.
Stuart
stu
Quote The point was that you have an enormous emotional investment in this mythology. Long ago you began to believe your own rhetoric, no doubt reinforced by your conversations about the emperor’s new clothes with other courtiers of the same kind. Your brain’s connections are so hard-wired into that mode of thinking that you can no longer criticise it with any kind of objectivity. Remember, I would be quite happy to be proved wrong. That would mean radical and interesting new learning was ahead of me. You cannot afford that possibility due to the emotional investment you have made. That is why you have nothing of merit to say.
you are not saying anything that i can not say to you ,so it is circular
stu
Quote Declaring ignorance is NOT the same thing as explaining the data. In the case of abiogenesis we have attempted explanations with the limited data we have. That is why there is no scientific theory of abiogenesis. In the case of evolution by natural selection, there was untold data to begin with, and Darwin just pieced together what many had already worked out for themselves, and EVERY piece of data since has fit his theory. If you cannot give me an example of a piece of data that does not fit then you have nothing to say about it. I can explain anything in all sciences as deep you want to go i know it all ,PROVIDING WE START WHITH THE WORD “IF”
Pierre
stu
Quote Posted: July 25 2011,18:43 ——————————————————————————–
terrariccaQuote
1)I have nothing to do with the beast of Christianity,and I am far of being a emotional individual,you may call me more as a puritan,for the truth of scriptures.The point was that you have an enormous emotional investment in this mythology. Long ago you began to believe your own rhetoric, no doubt reinforced by your conversations about the emperor’s new clothes with other courtiers of the same kind. Your brain’s connections are so hard-wired into that mode of thinking that you can no longer criticise it with any kind of objectivity.
Remember, I would be quite happy to be proved wrong. That would mean radical and interesting new learning was ahead of me. You cannot afford that possibility due to the emotional investment you have made. That is why you have nothing of merit to say.
Quote
A real scientist explains ALL the data so you say,this is not true what they do not know they skip,or declare their ignorance about it,like I showed you.Declaring ignorance is NOT the same thing as explaining the data. In the case of abiogenesis we have attempted explanations with the limited data we have. That is why there is no scientific theory of abiogenesis. In the case of evolution by natural selection, there was untold data to begin with, and Darwin just pieced together what many had already worked out for themselves, and EVERY piece of data since has fit his theory. If you cannot give me an example of a piece of data that does not fit then you have nothing to say about it.
Quote
well it is because a probability is not a fact but a possibility of facts but no one knows the true outcome before hand ,so it is like the game of roulette,You demonstrate my point perfectly.
Quote
the dilemma in debate is not data it is how they present the data,I agree. Creationists lie by concealing the evidence that contradicts their position
no stu, evolution is the story that start with a “IF”
Pierre
stu
Quote And he helps you using the knowledge of humans, which you accept in the doctor’s surgery but hypocritically reject when you are posting on forums like this. Your bluff is called. you did not read my comment or to fast and so interpret my quote wrong,
Quote (terraricca @ July 25 2011,13:35) stu Quote The point was that you have an enormous emotional investment in this mythology. Long ago you began to believe your own rhetoric, no doubt reinforced by your conversations about the emperor’s new clothes with other courtiers of the same kind. Your brain’s connections are so hard-wired into that mode of thinking that you can no longer criticise it with any kind of objectivity. Remember, I would be quite happy to be proved wrong. That would mean radical and interesting new learning was ahead of me. You cannot afford that possibility due to the emotional investment you have made. That is why you have nothing of merit to say.
you are not saying anything that i can not say to you ,so it is circular
OK then. Tell me you would be delighted if the bible was proved wrong.Then I shall delight you.
Stuart
Quote (terraricca @ July 25 2011,13:40) stu Quote Posted: July 25 2011,18:43 ——————————————————————————–
terrariccaQuote
1)I have nothing to do with the beast of Christianity,and I am far of being a emotional individual,you may call me more as a puritan,for the truth of scriptures.The point was that you have an enormous emotional investment in this mythology. Long ago you began to believe your own rhetoric, no doubt reinforced by your conversations about the emperor’s new clothes with other courtiers of the same kind. Your brain’s connections are so hard-wired into that mode of thinking that you can no longer criticise it with any kind of objectivity.
Remember, I would be quite happy to be proved wrong. That would mean radical and interesting new learning was ahead of me. You cannot afford that possibility due to the emotional investment you have made. That is why you have nothing of merit to say.
Quote
A real scientist explains ALL the data so you say,this is not true what they do not know they skip,or declare their ignorance about it,like I showed you.Declaring ignorance is NOT the same thing as explaining the data. In the case of abiogenesis we have attempted explanations with the limited data we have. That is why there is no scientific theory of abiogenesis. In the case of evolution by natural selection, there was untold data to begin with, and Darwin just pieced together what many had already worked out for themselves, and EVERY piece of data since has fit his theory. If you cannot give me an example of a piece of data that does not fit then you have nothing to say about it.
Quote
well it is because a probability is not a fact but a possibility of facts but no one knows the true outcome before hand ,so it is like the game of roulette,You demonstrate my point perfectly.
Quote
the dilemma in debate is not data it is how they present the data,I agree. Creationists lie by concealing the evidence that contradicts their position
no stu, evolution is the story that start with a “IF”
Pierre
You haven't read The Origin of Species.The body of that text starts with the word When.
Stuart
stu
Quote I didn’t say you were dumb, I said you don’t have the first clue about scientific disciplines. If you knew anything you would be able to criticise science on its own terms. But you have nothing to say. evolution is not a science it is a “IF” theory ,Russian roulette
science supposed to bring you from point A to point B if it can not do that then it is a big “IF' like in evolution
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ July 25 2011,13:46) stu Quote I didn’t say you were dumb, I said you don’t have the first clue about scientific disciplines. If you knew anything you would be able to criticise science on its own terms. But you have nothing to say. evolution is not a science it is a “IF” theory ,Russian roulette
science supposed to bring you from point A to point B if it can not do that then it is a big “IF' like in evolution
Pierre
Your bluff is called. You don't know anything about science.Stuart
stu
Quote So you don’t know what DNA does, even. this is one of the problems that is to overcome by scientist evolution,
given to evolution the credit of creating those marvelous millions of DNA structures is like telling to people that Santa comes trough the chimney,and if you left your old car parked out side in time it will become new again.
You say nothing. That’s because you know nothing. That’s because you are too lazy to investigate it. You ask questions then mock the answers from a position of ignorance. Your voice is a clanging cymbal because you do not have love for genuine discovery, you only have years of mindless patterned behaviour which hypocritically rejects the validity of that on which you rely every single day.I am not sure even if you were alive wen it was discover,and on the contrary I was amazed when i found out the discovery,,
but this was not a evolution discovery, this was more a mechanical discovery a piece of the cell that keep all things the way they are
Pierre
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
