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Here is some nice evidence for common descent for you. Retroviruses are viruses that insert their genome into our DNA when they infect us. If the cells infected include our germ cells, then the virus genome is passed on when we have children. These “endogenous retroviruses” (ERVs) leave patterns in our DNA that match the same patterns as found in fossil morphology and other molecular evidence from DNA.
It works like this: ERVs are passed on to descendents. Some ERVs appear in the same place in the genomes of all the great apes; orangutans, gorillas, bonobos, chimpanzees and humans. Some ERVs are found in only humans and chimpanzees, others are found in gorillas, chimpanzees and humans. No ERV has been found in the same part of the genome of humans and gorillas but NOT in chimpanzees. Similarly, no ERV has been found in common with orangutans that was not also present in gorillas and chimps. This phylogenetic diagram includes the names of endogenous retroviruses and the points at which they became included in the genomes of common descendents from that point onwards:
Stuart
Quote (terraricca @ July 11 2011,19:16) stu Quote Since you cannot disprove Darwin, and you have not given any alternative explanation, I think you should retract your claims you do not read your own lines?
it does not matter what i will present you have already made your mind up;He brags and blusters, but he never really does what he says he'll do.
This is a strawman argument.or By the way, I've been snipping large tracts from this, mostly stuff that is just creationist bluster and doesn't actually say anything
so i stick to what i have said and you to your with your conviction in mind
Pierre
What one argument do you feel was MOST compelling, or what one fact disproves Darwin?Stuart
Going back a bit further than the previous diagram, this next one shows the divergence of the primates from their ancestral line, about 63 million years ago. It was after this divergence that the primates lost the ability to make their own vitamin C: tarsiers, monkeys and apes have one defective gene out of the four that code for proteins that make vitamin C. Lemurs can make their own vitamin C because they have that fourth gene intact. The tarsiers, apes and monkeys are descended from an ancestor that suffered a mutation in that gene, and today we have only a pseudogene version of it, the gene that broke.
Stuart
Ring species show how accumulation of adaptations leads to speciation. This map shows the distribution of various gulls, which can interbreed at each boundary. For example vega gulls can breed with Birula's gulls, and Birula's gulls can interbreed with Heuglin's gull. The adaptive differences have accumulated through the ring to the point that herring gulls cannot interbreed with lesser black-backed gulls, making them two distinct species by definition.
This is exactly what happens “vertically” through time in the case of speciation by natural selection.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ July 11 2011,16:00) Quote (terraricca @ July 11 2011,14:14) Quote (Stu @ July 11 2011,20:22) What has been going on for 6000 years? Stuart
stuthe greed ,that says all for me and nothing for the others
and what i say goes or i kill you
or what you have is mine now
or obey or die
ect
I'd say closer to several million years.But love, selflessness, wonder and friendship have been going for millions of years too.
“Obey or die” is the story of your Imaginary Friend killing Uzzah who was only trying to help.
Stuart
Hi Stuart,I have explained this to you many times.
Why present the same old garbage?
Don't fixate on the King's scribes!Quote (Ed J @ July 11 2011,22:10) Quote (Stu @ July 11 2011,16:00) Quote (terraricca @ July 11 2011,14:14) Quote (Stu @ July 11 2011,20:22) What has been going on for 6000 years? Stuart
stuthe greed ,that says all for me and nothing for the others
and what i say goes or i kill you
or what you have is mine now
or obey or die
ect
I'd say closer to several million years.But love, selflessness, wonder and friendship have been going for millions of years too.
“Obey or die” is the story of your Imaginary Friend killing Uzzah who was only trying to help.
Stuart
Hi Stuart,I have explained this to you many times.
Why present the same old garbage?
Don't fixate on the King's scribes!
You go out of your way to post nothing at all.Why?
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ July 11 2011,19:57) Going back a bit further than the previous diagram, this next one shows the divergence of the primates from their ancestral line, about 63 million years ago. It was after this divergence that the primates lost the ability to make their own vitamin C: tarsiers, monkeys and apes have one defective gene out of the four that code for proteins that make vitamin C. Lemurs can make their own vitamin C because they have that fourth gene intact. The tarsiers, apes and monkeys are descended from an ancestor that suffered a mutation in that gene, and today we have only a pseudogene version of it, the gene that broke. Stuart
Hi Stuart,Where does the chart start? …in the mind of man?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Stu @ July 11 2011,22:14) Quote (Ed J @ July 11 2011,22:10) Quote (Stu @ July 11 2011,16:00) Quote (terraricca @ July 11 2011,14:14) Quote (Stu @ July 11 2011,20:22) What has been going on for 6000 years? Stuart
stuthe greed ,that says all for me and nothing for the others
and what i say goes or i kill you
or what you have is mine now
or obey or die
ect
I'd say closer to several million years.But love, selflessness, wonder and friendship have been going for millions of years too.
“Obey or die” is the story of your Imaginary Friend killing Uzzah who was only trying to help.
Stuart
Hi Stuart,I have explained this to you many times.
Why present the same old garbage?
Don't fixate on the King's scribes!
You go out of your way to post nothing at all.Why?
Stuart
God's Signature
Proof of God=117
GOD(26) → The Bible(63) → AKJV Bible(74) → The LORD JEHOVAH(151)יהוה=26 (God's Name: YHVH pronounced YÄ-hä-vā)
YHVH=63 (God's Name יהוה translated into English)
Jesus=74 (God's Son's name in English is: “Joshua”)
HolySpirit=151 (“FATHER: The Word”: in all believers)
God The Father=117 (Representing “GOD”: יהוה האלהים)Hi Stuart, are you having memory problems?
Nicole Tesla sermonized that “The Ark”(63) acted much like a giant capacitor.
“YHVH”(63) gave the Levites strict orders how the Ark should be handled! (Ex.25:14)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgstu
Quote Obey or die” is the story of your Imaginary Friend killing Uzzah who was only trying to help. Stuart
Uzzah ?Imaginary Friend? are not imagine that Uzzah is real ?
Pierre
Quote (Stu @ July 12 2011,02:22) Here is some nice evidence for common descent for you. Retroviruses are viruses that insert their genome into our DNA when they infect us. If the cells infected include our germ cells, then the virus genome is passed on when we have children. These “endogenous retroviruses” (ERVs) leave patterns in our DNA that match the same patterns as found in fossil morphology and other molecular evidence from DNA. It works like this: ERVs are passed on to descendents. Some ERVs appear in the same place in the genomes of all the great apes; orangutans, gorillas, bonobos, chimpanzees and humans. Some ERVs are found in only humans and chimpanzees, others are found in gorillas, chimpanzees and humans. No ERV has been found in the same part of the genome of humans and gorillas but NOT in chimpanzees. Similarly, no ERV has been found in common with orangutans that was not also present in gorillas and chimps. This phylogenetic diagram includes the names of endogenous retroviruses and the points at which they became included in the genomes of common descendents from that point onwards:
Stuart
stushow me where it start ,and why it stopped (evolution of men)
and show why it does not reproduce a recall of the DNA
species
Quote (terraricca @ July 12 2011,03:59) stu show me where it start ,and why it stopped (evolution of men)
and show why it does not reproduce a recall of the DNA
species
Show you where what starts? Evolution? To the very far left of the diagram.Why are you assuming that evolution in humans has stopped? It hasn't! We won't look like this in 1,000,000 years from now, just because of genetic drift.
Not sure what you mean by “show why it does not reproduce a recall of the DNA species”.
Stuart
Quote (terraricca @ July 12 2011,03:56) stu Quote Obey or die” is the story of your Imaginary Friend killing Uzzah who was only trying to help. Stuart
Uzzah ?Imaginary Friend? are not imagine that Uzzah is real ?
Pierre
That is not what I wrote.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ July 12 2011,16:01) Quote (terraricca @ July 12 2011,03:56) stu Quote Obey or die” is the story of your Imaginary Friend killing Uzzah who was only trying to help. Stuart
Uzzah ?Imaginary Friend? are not imagine that Uzzah is real ?
Pierre
That is not what I wrote.Stuart
stuif you say that God is imaginary then all the scriptures that is his word is also imaginary,
and so all related concerns are also imaginery.right?
Pierre
Quote (Stu @ July 12 2011,16:00) Quote (terraricca @ July 12 2011,03:59) stu show me where it start ,and why it stopped (evolution of men)
and show why it does not reproduce a recall of the DNA
species
Show you where what starts? Evolution? To the very far left of the diagram.Why are you assuming that evolution in humans has stopped? It hasn't! We won't look like this in 1,000,000 years from now, just because of genetic drift.
Not sure what you mean by “show why it does not reproduce a recall of the DNA species”.
Stuart
stuthis logic of yours is the best i have seen;
you make people gobble up a story that can not be proven in one live time ,this is good,
can prove any because it happen MILLIONS YEARS AGO and it continue but it will take MILLION YEARS ,so it not your fault that we only live 80 + years ,right,
I want prove now not yesterday or tomorrow
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ July 11 2011,12:09) Quote (princess @ July 11 2011,17:47) Quote this i do not understand what you are looking for to say the earth is wicked, is the same as saying venus is love.
what i do find wicked are ones that do not give water to ones who thrist, to remove your hand in a time of need, to turn an eye to one in pain.
Princesswhen i say the world is wicket it means that it s culture is
greed,is the main factor ,
now on the other hand no one(men) can help the world to change that course ,this is going on for 6000 years and he did not learn a thing ,only certain individuals have learn and they are quickly terminate if they make to much noise,
what are the hope for the next 6000 years if no one intervene to bring a change to the madness of the nations ,?
now if you have some true love in you, you will help when you see and can help,
but how far will you go to help is another question is it ?
Pierre
i lean towards ego as being what causes such things, what reflects from the ego then is given names such as greed/charity, love/hate ect. ect.perhaps man has not been given a chance to learn, most of the man exsistence has been ruled by some form of god/church or money, not much room to advance in thought. most of the work was done for them.
you know T, ever wonder why no other books came about that were truly the inspired word, paul was how long after jesus, with all the proclaiming ones do about being filled with the holy spirit and such, you would think that another would come along. perhaps to give a bit more clarity to some matters ex: divinty/human, one/three gods, blood/no blood. to help ones that are in need of such things, to unite so all can be in one understanding. however tis my own
true love is for puppies, kittens. pure love is what is to be attained, when man/woman can look at each other without any wrong intentions. then we have something.
i cannot predict the future of what is to come and how i will react, has not happened yet. however, my denist told me today that i am in the top five of the best patients. that has to account for something.
tis not what you give with your hand, tis what you give with your heart.
have fun discussing evolution with Stuart, tis quite boring to me, there is not anything the man can say, that will make me believe i came from an ape, i do prefer his theory of being made from heaven's dust, that one i accept.
take care T, hope all is well with you.
Quote (terraricca @ July 12 2011,09:16) Quote (Stu @ July 12 2011,16:01) Quote (terraricca @ July 12 2011,03:56) stu Quote Obey or die” is the story of your Imaginary Friend killing Uzzah who was only trying to help. Stuart
Uzzah ?Imaginary Friend? are not imagine that Uzzah is real ?
Pierre
That is not what I wrote.Stuart
stuif you say that God is imaginary then all the scriptures that is his word is also imaginary,
and so all related concerns are also imaginery.right?
Pierre
Essentially, yes.Although if you remove the Imaginary Friends from the bible you can still get an idea of Jewish thinking about the universe and morality.
It is true that the ancient Jewish creation myth did indeed involve a solid hemisphere above the earth with water above it and the stars and moon attached to it, notwithstanding modern apologists' attempts to twist that story to fit modern cosmology.
Stuart
Quote (terraricca @ July 12 2011,09:22) stu this logic of yours is the best i have seen;
you make people gobble up a story that can not be proven in one live time ,this is good,
can prove any because it happen MILLIONS YEARS AGO and it continue but it will take MILLION YEARS ,so it not your fault that we only live 80 + years ,right,
I want prove now not yesterday or tomorrow
Pierre
This is an idiotic position to take. If we are talking about an earth that is 4.55 billion years old, which we are, then you cannot expect to hire the DVD that shows you the edited highlights of the live coverage of history.What you can do is start digging and analysing, and painstakingly fitting together a reconstruction of what happened.
While there is overwhelming evidence for evolution by natural selection, and for the scientific model of cosmology taken from multiple independent sources, perhaps we should apply your logic to the bible. None of its stories are claimed to have happened in the last 80 years or so, so therefore no one should believe that any of it is true. This is actually a more credible statement than yours, because there is no reliable evidence (certainly no eyewitness evidence) that Jesus, or Solomon, or Moses existed.
While scientists shy away from the word “proved” (you can only prove things in mathematics), in the language you use, evolution by natural selection over thousands of millions of years IS proved beyond all reasonable doubt. I have posted a tiny fraction of the evidence in this thread, and you appear either not to understand its significance, or not to have a response to it.
Stuart
Quote (princess @ July 12 2011,10:39) have fun discussing evolution with Stuart, tis quite boring to me, there is not anything the man can say, that will make me believe i came from an ape, i do prefer his theory of being made from heaven's dust, that one i accept.
You not only came from an ape, you and I and all the posters on this forum are too.That is according to the creationist Carl Linnaeaus who developed the classification system which says so.
Perhaps the heritage of princesses is different, but the only explanation we have for your appearance on earth that fits the evidence is evolution by natural selection, and I can't see what you gain from believing things that just aren't true.
I wouldn't have called the matter we are made of “heaven's dust”. Carl Sagan called it starstuff, but he added that because stars are nuclear reactors we are also made of nuclear waste.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ July 12 2011,11:08) Quote (princess @ July 12 2011,10:39) have fun discussing evolution with Stuart, tis quite boring to me, there is not anything the man can say, that will make me believe i came from an ape, i do prefer his theory of being made from heaven's dust, that one i accept.
You not only came from an ape, you and I and all the posters on this forum are too.That is according to the creationist Carl Linnaeaus who developed the classification system which says so.
Perhaps the heritage of princesses is different, but the only explanation we have for your appearance on earth that fits the evidence is evolution by natural selection, and I can't see what you gain from believing things that just aren't true.
I wouldn't have called the matter we are made of “heaven's dust”. Carl Sagan called it starstuff, but he added that because stars are nuclear reactors we are also made of nuclear waste.
Stuart
Prince Stuart,still not convinced.
sugar, spice and everything nice.
take care dear Prince.
Quote (princess @ July 12 2011,17:39) Quote (terraricca @ July 11 2011,12:09) Quote (princess @ July 11 2011,17:47) Quote this i do not understand what you are looking for to say the earth is wicked, is the same as saying venus is love.
what i do find wicked are ones that do not give water to ones who thrist, to remove your hand in a time of need, to turn an eye to one in pain.
Princesswhen i say the world is wicket it means that it s culture is
greed,is the main factor ,
now on the other hand no one(men) can help the world to change that course ,this is going on for 6000 years and he did not learn a thing ,only certain individuals have learn and they are quickly terminate if they make to much noise,
what are the hope for the next 6000 years if no one intervene to bring a change to the madness of the nations ,?
now if you have some true love in you, you will help when you see and can help,
but how far will you go to help is another question is it ?
Pierre
i lean towards ego as being what causes such things, what reflects from the ego then is given names such as greed/charity, love/hate ect. ect.perhaps man has not been given a chance to learn, most of the man exsistence has been ruled by some form of god/church or money, not much room to advance in thought. most of the work was done for them.
you know T, ever wonder why no other books came about that were truly the inspired word, paul was how long after jesus, with all the proclaiming ones do about being filled with the holy spirit and such, you would think that another would come along. perhaps to give a bit more clarity to some matters ex: divinty/human, one/three gods, blood/no blood. to help ones that are in need of such things, to unite so all can be in one understanding. however tis my own
true love is for puppies, kittens. pure love is what is to be attained, when man/woman can look at each other without any wrong intentions. then we have something.
i cannot predict the future of what is to come and how i will react, has not happened yet. however, my denist told me today that i am in the top five of the best patients. that has to account for something.
tis not what you give with your hand, tis what you give with your heart.
have fun discussing evolution with Stuart, tis quite boring to me, there is not anything the man can say, that will make me believe i came from an ape, i do prefer his theory of being made from heaven's dust, that one i accept.
take care T, hope all is well with you.
princessthe love i talk about is called AGAPE it is a love not based on emotion but on understanding and reason,
see God want us to love him but not like we love our kids or our wives or our friends ,or our material things
the Love God wants is the one based on complete understanding the requirement of it and so see the true reasons to love
Have a great day
Pierre
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