Christians and muslims believe the same thing

[Ed J]

Hi Stuart,

If you truly did ask YHVH to prove to you he exists, you will see results.  
And of course, I agree with you that you get to decide the results of the test.
You shouldn't have to wait more than a week, if you truly did as you say you did.

I only ask that you be honest!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Stu]

Quote (Ed J @ June 30 2011,22:07)

Hi Stuart, If you truly did ask YHVH to prove to you he exists, you will see results.   And of course, I agree with you that you get to decide the results of the test. You shouldn't have to wait more than a week, if you truly did as you say you did. I only ask that you be honest! God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Experiment complete, results in. I've already decided that the complete lack of any difference resulting from anyone's exhaltations means your god is proven not to exist, Ed.

That is as valid as any claim you have made for it.

Unless you are still waiting for a reply from Jupiter, then I shall suspend my judgment too.

Stuart

[Ed J]

Hi Stuart,

We will yet see if there is any results.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Stu]

Will we? What is a result?

Stuart

[Ed J]

Hi Stuart,

Remember, you are to determine what the results of your test is.
And I'll let you know if I have any with regard to Jupiter; OK?
I only ask that you are honest with us here at h-net!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Stu]

You're not being honest with me. You have not told me what I should expect to happen.

Stuart

[Ed J]

Hi Stuart,

Something to cause you to believe YHVH is real.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Stu]

So I could develop a mental disorder this week that made me think one or more gods exist.

Does that mean I should then believe your god is real?

Stuart

[Ed J]

Hi Stuart,

If you asked him to prove he is real, you will find out soon enough.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Stu]

So your god might send me a sign that it is not real?

You are another christian with nothing meaningful to say.

Stuart

[Ed J]

Hi Stuart,

If you “really” asked YHVH to prove himself to you(as you said),
he will give you unambiguous evidence as per your request!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Stu]

…and the No True Scotsman fallacy as well.

Stuart

[terraricca]

Quote (Stu @ July 01 2011,00:56)

terraricca Quote would you not agree that what you know now may not be totally true Yes. Quote and so may change like it at change in the past 100 years,? No. Quote so you would agree by going backward we all be coming from one couple ? No.  There never was a time of only two humans. Quote so you are recognizing the ability to humans to improve where other living creature can not,? Improve in what sense? Quote so you kind of agree with Salomon;Ecc 1:1 The words of the Teacher, son of David, king in Jerusalem: Ecc 1:2 “Meaningless! Meaningless!” says the Teacher. “Utterly meaningless! Everything is meaningless.” are you ? No.  While the existence of a word does not imply the existence of the thing it is used to describe as seen in meaningless religious platitudes, my life has the meaning I gave it.  I guess you are not mounting a semantic argument here, but, sorry to say it but it does hinge on the meaning of the word meaning… While we have Ecclesiastes open, turn to Ecc 3:19,   Ecc 9:5, and Ecc. 9:10 which seem to be contradicting the conspiracy theory of being alive again after death.  Of course none of that was really written by Solomon, if he even existed.  Unless he wrote it from the grave. Quote so this is confirm the allegory of the cave ,from Socrates ,is it ? with i agree with you. Perhaps it is.  Once you have seen what is really going on why would you settle for fantasy myths?!   Of course Descartes still applies, you have to make the assumption that you do really exist, and what you see is what you get, but in so many cases we can see both the shadows and the cause of the shadows so that it is not unreasonable to make that second assumption.  However for those who think that’s bad then let’s try adding the assumption of the existence of gods that no one can produce and appear not to ever have caused anything, and the further assumption that you could possibly know anything about them. Stuart

stu

Quote

Quote and so may change like it at change in the past 100 years,? No.

why do you answer No,would i understand than all you know did not change since you are 7 years old ?

Quote

Quote so you would agree by going backward we all be coming from one couple ? No. There never was a time of only two humans.

so ,your NO will be totally not true in math,i always have learn if I save one dollars a day i will have 365 at the end of a year,if i start with 365 dollars and spend one dollars a day I will end up with nothing left at the end of a year.

Quote

Quote so you are recognizing the ability to humans to improve where other living creature can not,? Improve in what sense?

well in all fields this is why we go to the moon and have TV,and cars,and so we or some of us have stopped eating with there hands and clean there premises of living quarters,to say the least,

Quote

Quote so you kind of agree with Salomon;Ecc 1:1 The words of the Teacher, son of David, king in Jerusalem: Ecc 1:2 “Meaningless! Meaningless!” says the Teacher. “Utterly meaningless! Everything is meaningless.” are you ? No. While the existence of a word does not imply the existence of the thing it is used to describe as seen in meaningless religious platitudes, my life has the meaning I gave it. I guess you are not mounting a semantic argument here, but, sorry to say it but it does hinge on the meaning of the word meaning…

I did not quote his words to mean more to what he says;and that all things are meaningless ,
the reason i stated this is that you should agree ,because only men can come to that understanding no other can.

Pierre

[Stu]

Quote

why do you answer No,would i understand than all you know did not change since you are 7 years old ?

That isn’t what you asked. At least that is not how your question read.

Quote

so ,your NO will be totally not true in math,i always have learn if I save one dollars a day i will have 365 at the end of a year,if i start with 365 dollars and spend one dollars a day I will end up with nothing left at the end of a year.

That has always been true. It has never changed since the invention of subtraction in mathematics, let alone in my lifetime.

Stu: Improve in what sense?

Quote

well in all fields this is why we go to the moon and have TV,and cars,and so we or some of us have stopped eating with there hands and clean there premises of living quarters,to say the least,

I think it is only humans that have cars and TVs and have been to the moon, so I suppose by your definition it is humans who will make those improvements and not other species. But I’m not sure what point you are trying to make.

Stuart

[terraricca]

Quote (Stu @ July 02 2011,01:54)

Quote why do you answer No,would i understand than all you know did not change since you are 7 years old ? That isn’t what you asked.  At least that is not how your question read. Quote so ,your NO will be totally not true in math,i always have learn if I save one dollars a day i will have 365 at the end of a year,if i start with 365 dollars and spend one dollars a day I will end up with nothing left at the end of a year. That has always been true.  It has never changed since the invention of subtraction in mathematics, let alone in my lifetime. Stu:  Improve in what sense? Quote well in all fields this is why we go to the moon and have TV,and cars,and so we or some of us have stopped eating with there hands and clean there premises of living quarters,to say the least, I think it is only humans that have cars and TVs and have been to the moon, so I suppose by your definition it is humans who will make those improvements and not other species.  But I’m not sure what point you are trying to make. Stuart

stu

you are not honest ,and not true to this conversation,

you have not answered my questions,

and when you do you take a deviated road to do so ,

and also play ignorant to the meaning of my question
and yet you have all the info ,

so you are not only a unbeliever but also a deceiver to you and to others ,

so when you can be honest and answer my questions ,until then we are done ,

I do not make investments in a can without bottom,

Pierre

[Stu]

Quote (terraricca @ July 02 2011,01:15)

Quote (Stu @ July 02 2011,01:54) Quote why do you answer No,would i understand than all you know did not change since you are 7 years old ? That isn’t what you asked.  At least that is not how your question read. Quote so ,your NO will be totally not true in math,i always have learn if I save one dollars a day i will have 365 at the end of a year,if i start with 365 dollars and spend one dollars a day I will end up with nothing left at the end of a year. That has always been true.  It has never changed since the invention of subtraction in mathematics, let alone in my lifetime. Stu:  Improve in what sense? Quote well in all fields this is why we go to the moon and have TV,and cars,and so we or some of us have stopped eating with there hands and clean there premises of living quarters,to say the least, I think it is only humans that have cars and TVs and have been to the moon, so I suppose by your definition it is humans who will make those improvements and not other species.  But I’m not sure what point you are trying to make. Stuart stu you are not honest ,and not true to this conversation, you have not answered my questions, and when you do you take a deviated road to do so , and also play ignorant to the meaning of my question and yet you have all the info , so you are not only a unbeliever but also a deceiver to you and to others , so when you can be honest and answer my questions ,until then we are done , I do not make investments in a can without bottom, Pierre

I have answered everything honestly. Give me one case where I have not been completely forward with you. I think the problem is in your last line. You seem to think statements like that actually have something to say, but they are meaningless. “I do not make investments in a can without bottom” is a platitude”, ironically it is a statement without a bottom.

I should hesitate to call you another of the arrogant christians who assumes that non-believers will play along with, and show respect for the emperor's new clothes: it is pretty obvious that no religious person has ever actually shown there is a god, and I've never met one who can tell me what one is, so I'm afraid your accusations of lack of honesty are reflected back to you.

Just because you cannot articulate what a god is, does not mean they don't exist, but you have no unambiguous evidence for whatever it is, and no case to make that the word “god” constitutes anything more than the merest abstract notion for the wishful and deluded.

So I'm sorry but I don't think it is my honesty in question here. Perhaps the calling of your bluff has not made you think as hard about this as it should.

What is a god?

What has a god ever done that could be demonstrated by unambiguous evidence?

If you cannot answer those questions then you do not deserve to be taken seriously.

Stuart

[942767]

Hi Stu:

Perhaps, this article entitled The Amazing camel and it's creator will convince you that God is a reality:

http://www.plaintruth.com/the_pla….or.html

Love in Christ,
Marty

[terraricca]

Quote (Stu @ July 02 2011,16:49)

Quote (terraricca @ July 02 2011,01:15) Quote (Stu @ July 02 2011,01:54) Quote why do you answer No,would i understand than all you know did not change since you are 7 years old ? That isn’t what you asked.  At least that is not how your question read. Quote so ,your NO will be totally not true in math,i always have learn if I save one dollars a day i will have 365 at the end of a year,if i start with 365 dollars and spend one dollars a day I will end up with nothing left at the end of a year. That has always been true.  It has never changed since the invention of subtraction in mathematics, let alone in my lifetime. Stu:  Improve in what sense? Quote well in all fields this is why we go to the moon and have TV,and cars,and so we or some of us have stopped eating with there hands and clean there premises of living quarters,to say the least, I think it is only humans that have cars and TVs and have been to the moon, so I suppose by your definition it is humans who will make those improvements and not other species.  But I’m not sure what point you are trying to make. Stuart stu you are not honest ,and not true to this conversation, you have not answered my questions, and when you do you take a deviated road to do so , and also play ignorant to the meaning of my question and yet you have all the info , so you are not only a unbeliever but also a deceiver to you and to others , so when you can be honest and answer my questions ,until then we are done , I do not make investments in a can without bottom, Pierre I have answered everything honestly.  Give me one case where I have not been completely forward with you.  I think the problem is in your last line.  You seem to think statements like that actually have something to say, but they are meaningless. “I do not make investments in a can without bottom” is a platitude”, ironically it is a statement without a bottom. I should hesitate to call you another of the arrogant christians who assumes that non-believers will play along with, and show respect for the emperor's new clothes: it is pretty obvious that no religious person has ever actually shown there is a god, and I've never met one who can tell me what one is, so I'm afraid your accusations of lack of honesty are reflected back to you. Just because you cannot articulate what a god is, does not mean they don't exist, but you have no unambiguous evidence for whatever it is, and no case to make that the word “god” constitutes anything more than the merest abstract notion for the wishful and deluded. So I'm sorry but I don't think it is my honesty in question here.  Perhaps the calling of your bluff has not made you think as hard about this as it should. What is a god? What has a god ever done that could be demonstrated by unambiguous evidence? If you cannot answer those questions then you do not deserve to be taken seriously. Stuart

STU

i have not ask you any question on God ,right

so why should i try to prove anything about God or gods ?

Pierre

read my quotes and answer the question what you did not.

[Stu]

Quote (942767 @ July 02 2011,10:41)

Hi Stu: Perhaps, this article entitled The Amazing camel and it's creator will convince you that God is a reality: http://www.plaintruth.com/the_pla….or.html Love in Christ, Marty

Thank you for your link to material for the abuse of children.

I draw your attention to this line as an example: “My Creator gave me specially engineered sand shoes for feet.”

Any child of reasonable intelligence who was directed to this site would see straight away that it is saying nothing at all more than the camel has lots of interesting specialist adaptations.

It does not actually say what the “creator” did, or how it did it. It is just adding the word “creator” into the text with no explanation whatever. In this way we abuse our children's curiosity by telling them things that cannot be substantiated. It is teaching them to be intellectually lazy and satisfied with knowing nothing of any substance. You'd have to be suspicious with such a tryhard title as “The Plain Truth:” – a sure sign that it won't contain any such thing. It is ironic that you chose to use a site that pretends to discuss “how camels got their humps” when that is the title of one of the Just-So stories by Rudyard Kipling. Your linked site produces more just-so stories of how camels came to be.

But I agree camels are cool. Are you interested in how they ACTUALLY came to acquire those advantageous adaptations?

Stuart

[Stu]

Quote (terraricca @ July 02 2011,11:25)

Quote (Stu @ July 02 2011,16:49) Quote (terraricca @ July 02 2011,01:15) Quote (Stu @ July 02 2011,01:54) Quote why do you answer No,would i understand than all you know did not change since you are 7 years old ? That isn’t what you asked.  At least that is not how your question read. Quote so ,your NO will be totally not true in math,i always have learn if I save one dollars a day i will have 365 at the end of a year,if i start with 365 dollars and spend one dollars a day I will end up with nothing left at the end of a year. That has always been true.  It has never changed since the invention of subtraction in mathematics, let alone in my lifetime. Stu:  Improve in what sense? Quote well in all fields this is why we go to the moon and have TV,and cars,and so we or some of us have stopped eating with there hands and clean there premises of living quarters,to say the least, I think it is only humans that have cars and TVs and have been to the moon, so I suppose by your definition it is humans who will make those improvements and not other species.  But I’m not sure what point you are trying to make. Stuart stu you are not honest ,and not true to this conversation, you have not answered my questions, and when you do you take a deviated road to do so , and also play ignorant to the meaning of my question and yet you have all the info , so you are not only a unbeliever but also a deceiver to you and to others , so when you can be honest and answer my questions ,until then we are done , I do not make investments in a can without bottom, Pierre I have answered everything honestly.  Give me one case where I have not been completely forward with you.  I think the problem is in your last line.  You seem to think statements like that actually have something to say, but they are meaningless. “I do not make investments in a can without bottom” is a platitude”, ironically it is a statement without a bottom. I should hesitate to call you another of the arrogant christians who assumes that non-believers will play along with, and show respect for the emperor's new clothes: it is pretty obvious that no religious person has ever actually shown there is a god, and I've never met one who can tell me what one is, so I'm afraid your accusations of lack of honesty are reflected back to you. Just because you cannot articulate what a god is, does not mean they don't exist, but you have no unambiguous evidence for whatever it is, and no case to make that the word “god” constitutes anything more than the merest abstract notion for the wishful and deluded. So I'm sorry but I don't think it is my honesty in question here.  Perhaps the calling of your bluff has not made you think as hard about this as it should. What is a god? What has a god ever done that could be demonstrated by unambiguous evidence? If you cannot answer those questions then you do not deserve to be taken seriously. Stuart STU i have not ask you any question on God ,right so why should i try to prove anything about God or gods ? Pierre read my quotes and answer the question what you did not.

You have lost me. On what question(s) have I not been completely forward and frank, attempting to neither conceal nor divert?

Stuart

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