Christians and muslims believe the same thing

[Stu]

Quote (bodhitharta @ May 24 2011,08:16)

The Quran is the book that makes things clear

You've got to be joking.

The koran is the mythology of the “Religion of Peace” that involves killing people with swords depending on whether you interpret others' actions as oppression or not.

Stuart

[Stu]

Of course it does not have to be killing with swords, it could be maiming with acid for wanting to go to school:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world….g-girls

But then I guess they're not being real muslims, BD.

Stuart

[942767]

Quote (bodhitharta @ May 25 2011,13:31)

Quote (942767 @ May 25 2011,11:02) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 21 2011,13:08) Quote (942767 @ May 20 2011,10:31) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 20 2011,10:21) Quote (shimmer @ May 19 2011,12:31) Quote So are you saying that Jesus wasn't being literal? If so what makes you think the term “son of God” is literal? Im not answering that Bod, I believe Jesus as the Son of God from Heaven and you dont, so lets just leave it. Youve already asked me this many times and you obviously dont want to learn anything by your questions. I will not change my belief. So only ask if you really want to know. I actually said I believe that Jesus is the Son of God  from heaven but I understand that Son and Servant are relative terms in the bible otherwise a lot of people called there sons servants and there servants sons. Because Paul could only mean as a metaphor that he begot some with the gospel and the angels of God being called the sons of God could only be a metaphor unless God procreates like humans do. The Quran makes things like this clear and that was its intent: To make things clear. The Bible especially the New Testament is not clear if it were some Christians would not think Christ is God and some believe Christ is not God, some believe Christ always existed some believe he came into existence when he was born on this earth. Christians cannot even agree on the numerics of God whether God is 1 manifested in 3 or 3 in 1 or a Binity…etc some even believe God is like a family name. The Quran is Clear and in perfect alignment with what the Bible originally teaches and what the Jews brought to Humanity and that is the Knowledge that God Almighty is One God and there is no other. Hi my friend: Do you believe that Jesus was a prophet of God? Love in Christ, Marty Yes, because he was: And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house. Matthew 13:56-58 And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee. Matthew 21:10-12 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people: Luke 24:18-20 Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world. John 6:13-15 Jesus was certainly a unique Prophet of God Hi BD: Then, if he was a prophet of God, why do you not believe what God has spoken to humanity through him? Love in Christ, Marty What are you saying? Jesus said he was the willing servant of God. Can you show me a scripture where God is quoted as saying “I will crucify him for the sins of others”?

Hi BD:

I mean that if you believe that Jesus is a prophet of God, why do you not believe what he said?

You have read the bible, and there are those that have what he said written in red.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Stu @ May 26 2011,01:19)

Of course it does not have to be killing with swords, it could be maiming with acid for wanting to go to school: http://www.stuff.co.nz/world….g-girls But then I guess they're not being real muslims, BD. Stuart

They are not being Muslims and in-fact where did you ever read that the reason they are doing this is because of religion? It is their culture not their religion so now put up or shut up.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (942767 @ May 26 2011,07:38)

Quote (bodhitharta @ May 25 2011,13:31) Quote (942767 @ May 25 2011,11:02) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 21 2011,13:08) Quote (942767 @ May 20 2011,10:31) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 20 2011,10:21) Quote (shimmer @ May 19 2011,12:31) Quote So are you saying that Jesus wasn't being literal? If so what makes you think the term “son of God” is literal? Im not answering that Bod, I believe Jesus as the Son of God from Heaven and you dont, so lets just leave it. Youve already asked me this many times and you obviously dont want to learn anything by your questions. I will not change my belief. So only ask if you really want to know. I actually said I believe that Jesus is the Son of God  from heaven but I understand that Son and Servant are relative terms in the bible otherwise a lot of people called there sons servants and there servants sons. Because Paul could only mean as a metaphor that he begot some with the gospel and the angels of God being called the sons of God could only be a metaphor unless God procreates like humans do. The Quran makes things like this clear and that was its intent: To make things clear. The Bible especially the New Testament is not clear if it were some Christians would not think Christ is God and some believe Christ is not God, some believe Christ always existed some believe he came into existence when he was born on this earth. Christians cannot even agree on the numerics of God whether God is 1 manifested in 3 or 3 in 1 or a Binity…etc some even believe God is like a family name. The Quran is Clear and in perfect alignment with what the Bible originally teaches and what the Jews brought to Humanity and that is the Knowledge that God Almighty is One God and there is no other. Hi my friend: Do you believe that Jesus was a prophet of God? Love in Christ, Marty Yes, because he was: And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house. Matthew 13:56-58 And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee. Matthew 21:10-12 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people: Luke 24:18-20 Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world. John 6:13-15 Jesus was certainly a unique Prophet of God Hi BD: Then, if he was a prophet of God, why do you not believe what God has spoken to humanity through him? Love in Christ, Marty What are you saying? Jesus said he was the willing servant of God. Can you show me a scripture where God is quoted as saying “I will crucify him for the sins of others”? Hi BD: I mean that if you believe that Jesus is a prophet of God, why do you not believe what he said? You have read the bible, and there are those that have what he said written in red. Love in Christ, Marty

I didn't say I didn't believe what he said but what I did say is that the Words of God are ultimately what we all must heed: Look what God says about his prophets and servants:

Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the LORD's servant?
Isaiah 42:18-20

What do you think of this?

[942767]

Quote (bodhitharta @ May 26 2011,08:05)

Quote (942767 @ May 26 2011,07:38) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 25 2011,13:31) Quote (942767 @ May 25 2011,11:02) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 21 2011,13:08) Quote (942767 @ May 20 2011,10:31) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 20 2011,10:21) Quote (shimmer @ May 19 2011,12:31) Quote So are you saying that Jesus wasn't being literal? If so what makes you think the term “son of God” is literal? Im not answering that Bod, I believe Jesus as the Son of God from Heaven and you dont, so lets just leave it. Youve already asked me this many times and you obviously dont want to learn anything by your questions. I will not change my belief. So only ask if you really want to know. I actually said I believe that Jesus is the Son of God  from heaven but I understand that Son and Servant are relative terms in the bible otherwise a lot of people called there sons servants and there servants sons. Because Paul could only mean as a metaphor that he begot some with the gospel and the angels of God being called the sons of God could only be a metaphor unless God procreates like humans do. The Quran makes things like this clear and that was its intent: To make things clear. The Bible especially the New Testament is not clear if it were some Christians would not think Christ is God and some believe Christ is not God, some believe Christ always existed some believe he came into existence when he was born on this earth. Christians cannot even agree on the numerics of God whether God is 1 manifested in 3 or 3 in 1 or a Binity…etc some even believe God is like a family name. The Quran is Clear and in perfect alignment with what the Bible originally teaches and what the Jews brought to Humanity and that is the Knowledge that God Almighty is One God and there is no other. Hi my friend: Do you believe that Jesus was a prophet of God? Love in Christ, Marty Yes, because he was: And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house. Matthew 13:56-58 And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee. Matthew 21:10-12 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people: Luke 24:18-20 Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world. John 6:13-15 Jesus was certainly a unique Prophet of God Hi BD: Then, if he was a prophet of God, why do you not believe what God has spoken to humanity through him? Love in Christ, Marty What are you saying? Jesus said he was the willing servant of God. Can you show me a scripture where God is quoted as saying “I will crucify him for the sins of others”? Hi BD: I mean that if you believe that Jesus is a prophet of God, why do you not believe what he said? You have read the bible, and there are those that have what he said written in red. Love in Christ, Marty I didn't say I didn't believe what he said but what I did say is that the Words of God are ultimately what we all must heed: Look what God says about his prophets and servants: Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the LORD's servant? Isaiah 42:18-20 What do you think of this?

Hi BD:

If he was a prophet of God, then it was God speaking to humanity through him.

This is what the scripture states:

Quote

Hebrews 1 1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

John 12:47-50

Quote

And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not,for I came not to judge the world, but the save the world. 48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[bodhitharta]

Quote (942767 @ May 26 2011,11:02)

Quote (bodhitharta @ May 26 2011,08:05) Quote (942767 @ May 26 2011,07:38) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 25 2011,13:31) Quote (942767 @ May 25 2011,11:02) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 21 2011,13:08) Quote (942767 @ May 20 2011,10:31) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 20 2011,10:21) Quote (shimmer @ May 19 2011,12:31) Quote So are you saying that Jesus wasn't being literal? If so what makes you think the term “son of God” is literal? Im not answering that Bod, I believe Jesus as the Son of God from Heaven and you dont, so lets just leave it. Youve already asked me this many times and you obviously dont want to learn anything by your questions. I will not change my belief. So only ask if you really want to know. I actually said I believe that Jesus is the Son of God  from heaven but I understand that Son and Servant are relative terms in the bible otherwise a lot of people called there sons servants and there servants sons. Because Paul could only mean as a metaphor that he begot some with the gospel and the angels of God being called the sons of God could only be a metaphor unless God procreates like humans do. The Quran makes things like this clear and that was its intent: To make things clear. The Bible especially the New Testament is not clear if it were some Christians would not think Christ is God and some believe Christ is not God, some believe Christ always existed some believe he came into existence when he was born on this earth. Christians cannot even agree on the numerics of God whether God is 1 manifested in 3 or 3 in 1 or a Binity…etc some even believe God is like a family name. The Quran is Clear and in perfect alignment with what the Bible originally teaches and what the Jews brought to Humanity and that is the Knowledge that God Almighty is One God and there is no other. Hi my friend: Do you believe that Jesus was a prophet of God? Love in Christ, Marty Yes, because he was: And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house. Matthew 13:56-58 And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee. Matthew 21:10-12 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people: Luke 24:18-20 Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world. John 6:13-15 Jesus was certainly a unique Prophet of God Hi BD: Then, if he was a prophet of God, why do you not believe what God has spoken to humanity through him? Love in Christ, Marty What are you saying? Jesus said he was the willing servant of God. Can you show me a scripture where God is quoted as saying “I will crucify him for the sins of others”? Hi BD: I mean that if you believe that Jesus is a prophet of God, why do you not believe what he said? You have read the bible, and there are those that have what he said written in red. Love in Christ, Marty I didn't say I didn't believe what he said but what I did say is that the Words of God are ultimately what we all must heed: Look what God says about his prophets and servants: Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the LORD's servant? Isaiah 42:18-20 What do you think of this? Hi BD: If he was a prophet of God, then it was God speaking to humanity through him. This is what the scripture states: Quote Hebrews 1 1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high: John 12:47-50 Quote And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not,for I came not to judge the world, but the save the world. 48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak. Love in Christ, Marty

Sounds like you agree with me because that is what I have been saying.

You do realize that Jesus said some things that God did not tell him to say but he simply said as a human being, right? When Jesus said he was hungry or tired that wasn't God speaking through him it was Jesus

[942767]

Quote (bodhitharta @ May 26 2011,12:12)

Quote (942767 @ May 26 2011,11:02) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 26 2011,08:05) Quote (942767 @ May 26 2011,07:38) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 25 2011,13:31) Quote (942767 @ May 25 2011,11:02) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 21 2011,13:08) Quote (942767 @ May 20 2011,10:31) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 20 2011,10:21) Quote (shimmer @ May 19 2011,12:31) Quote So are you saying that Jesus wasn't being literal? If so what makes you think the term “son of God” is literal? Im not answering that Bod, I believe Jesus as the Son of God from Heaven and you dont, so lets just leave it. Youve already asked me this many times and you obviously dont want to learn anything by your questions. I will not change my belief. So only ask if you really want to know. I actually said I believe that Jesus is the Son of God  from heaven but I understand that Son and Servant are relative terms in the bible otherwise a lot of people called there sons servants and there servants sons. Because Paul could only mean as a metaphor that he begot some with the gospel and the angels of God being called the sons of God could only be a metaphor unless God procreates like humans do. The Quran makes things like this clear and that was its intent: To make things clear. The Bible especially the New Testament is not clear if it were some Christians would not think Christ is God and some believe Christ is not God, some believe Christ always existed some believe he came into existence when he was born on this earth. Christians cannot even agree on the numerics of God whether God is 1 manifested in 3 or 3 in 1 or a Binity…etc some even believe God is like a family name. The Quran is Clear and in perfect alignment with what the Bible originally teaches and what the Jews brought to Humanity and that is the Knowledge that God Almighty is One God and there is no other. Hi my friend: Do you believe that Jesus was a prophet of God? Love in Christ, Marty Yes, because he was: And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house. Matthew 13:56-58 And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee. Matthew 21:10-12 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people: Luke 24:18-20 Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world. John 6:13-15 Jesus was certainly a unique Prophet of God Hi BD: Then, if he was a prophet of God, why do you not believe what God has spoken to humanity through him? Love in Christ, Marty What are you saying? Jesus said he was the willing servant of God. Can you show me a scripture where God is quoted as saying “I will crucify him for the sins of others”? Hi BD: I mean that if you believe that Jesus is a prophet of God, why do you not believe what he said? You have read the bible, and there are those that have what he said written in red. Love in Christ, Marty I didn't say I didn't believe what he said but what I did say is that the Words of God are ultimately what we all must heed: Look what God says about his prophets and servants: Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the LORD's servant? Isaiah 42:18-20 What do you think of this? Hi BD: If he was a prophet of God, then it was God speaking to humanity through him. This is what the scripture states: Quote Hebrews 1 1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high: John 12:47-50 Quote And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not,for I came not to judge the world, but the save the world. 48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak. Love in Christ, Marty Sounds like you agree with me because that is what I have been saying. You do realize that Jesus said some things that God did not tell him to say but he simply said as a human being, right? When Jesus said he was hungry or tired that wasn't God speaking through him it was Jesus

Hi BD:

Do you believe what he said here:

Quote

John 14:6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

I am not so sure that you can claim that I am agreeing with you at all. There may be some things that I can agree with you, like what you say about some thing which Jesus said, like I am hungry, just being a truth in his humanity, but no, you do not believe that Jesus is “the Only Begotten Son of God” and you do not believe in his death on the cross, and his burial, and his subsequent resurrection.

And so, no, we do not agree, but I am praying that you will see the truth.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[bodhitharta]

Quote (942767 @ May 27 2011,03:32)

Quote (bodhitharta @ May 26 2011,12:12) Quote (942767 @ May 26 2011,11:02) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 26 2011,08:05) Quote (942767 @ May 26 2011,07:38) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 25 2011,13:31) Quote (942767 @ May 25 2011,11:02) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 21 2011,13:08) Quote (942767 @ May 20 2011,10:31) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 20 2011,10:21) Quote (shimmer @ May 19 2011,12:31) Quote So are you saying that Jesus wasn't being literal? If so what makes you think the term “son of God” is literal? Im not answering that Bod, I believe Jesus as the Son of God from Heaven and you dont, so lets just leave it. Youve already asked me this many times and you obviously dont want to learn anything by your questions. I will not change my belief. So only ask if you really want to know. I actually said I believe that Jesus is the Son of God  from heaven but I understand that Son and Servant are relative terms in the bible otherwise a lot of people called there sons servants and there servants sons. Because Paul could only mean as a metaphor that he begot some with the gospel and the angels of God being called the sons of God could only be a metaphor unless God procreates like humans do. The Quran makes things like this clear and that was its intent: To make things clear. The Bible especially the New Testament is not clear if it were some Christians would not think Christ is God and some believe Christ is not God, some believe Christ always existed some believe he came into existence when he was born on this earth. Christians cannot even agree on the numerics of God whether God is 1 manifested in 3 or 3 in 1 or a Binity…etc some even believe God is like a family name. The Quran is Clear and in perfect alignment with what the Bible originally teaches and what the Jews brought to Humanity and that is the Knowledge that God Almighty is One God and there is no other. Hi my friend: Do you believe that Jesus was a prophet of God? Love in Christ, Marty Yes, because he was: And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house. Matthew 13:56-58 And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee. Matthew 21:10-12 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people: Luke 24:18-20 Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world. John 6:13-15 Jesus was certainly a unique Prophet of God Hi BD: Then, if he was a prophet of God, why do you not believe what God has spoken to humanity through him? Love in Christ, Marty What are you saying? Jesus said he was the willing servant of God. Can you show me a scripture where God is quoted as saying “I will crucify him for the sins of others”? Hi BD: I mean that if you believe that Jesus is a prophet of God, why do you not believe what he said? You have read the bible, and there are those that have what he said written in red. Love in Christ, Marty I didn't say I didn't believe what he said but what I did say is that the Words of God are ultimately what we all must heed: Look what God says about his prophets and servants: Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the LORD's servant? Isaiah 42:18-20 What do you think of this? Hi BD: If he was a prophet of God, then it was God speaking to humanity through him. This is what the scripture states: Quote Hebrews 1 1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high: John 12:47-50 Quote And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not,for I came not to judge the world, but the save the world. 48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak. Love in Christ, Marty Sounds like you agree with me because that is what I have been saying. You do realize that Jesus said some things that God did not tell him to say but he simply said as a human being, right? When Jesus said he was hungry or tired that wasn't God speaking through him it was Jesus Hi BD: Do you believe what he said here: Quote John  14:6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. I am not so sure that you can claim that I am agreeing with you at all.  There may be some things that I can agree with you, like what you say about some thing which Jesus said, like I am hungry, just being a truth in his humanity, but no, you do not believe that Jesus is “the Only Begotten Son of God” and you do not believe in his death on the cross, and his burial, and his subsequent resurrection. And so, no, we do not agree, but I am praying that you will see the truth. Love in Christ, Marty

Yes, I believe Jesus what Jesus said in John 14:6 I just don't know if you believe it the way it was meant. Do you believe this?

If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
John 10:34-36

Now if Jesus says this, then he is also stating that to whom the word of God came they were also the way the truth and the life and no one got to the Father except through them.

I also do believe that Jeus is the only born of Body(begotten) son of God but of course he is not the only “Son of God” Jesus is Unique in the sense that God created Jesus with His command “To Be” and with power and spirit of God Jesus was conceived in Mary. This is the meaning for certainly you know that Jesus was not begotten in a physical sense, right?

I'm teaching you the truth here and now so if you want to understand you are perfectly capable to do so

[942767]

Hi BD:

Jesus did say that those to whom the Word of God came were called gods, but he did not say that you could come to God through them.

He said that he was the way, the truth and the life and that no man can come to the Father but by him.

His shed blood on calvary is the propitiation for our sins, and without this, to wash away our sins, there is no salvation.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[bodhitharta]

Quote (942767 @ May 27 2011,14:48)

Hi BD: Jesus did say that those to whom the Word of God came were called gods, but he did not say that you could come to God through them. He said that he was the way, the truth and the life and that no man can come to the Father but by him. His shed blood on calvary is the propitiation for our sins, and without this, to wash away our sins, there is no salvation.   Love in Christ, Marty

Then you disagree with the bible when it says:

The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Ezekiel 18:19-21

So I ask you is it the blood of Jesus or the belief in what Jesus taught about God that gives salvation? Jesus says:

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
John 17:2-4

Eternal life is not in the blood but in the belief in God and His Christ. Remember Christ Jesus was betrayed not coming to be crucified

[942767]

Quote (bodhitharta @ May 27 2011,15:04)

Quote (942767 @ May 27 2011,14:48) Hi BD: Jesus did say that those to whom the Word of God came were called gods, but he did not say that you could come to God through them. He said that he was the way, the truth and the life and that no man can come to the Father but by him. His shed blood on calvary is the propitiation for our sins, and without this, to wash away our sins, there is no salvation.   Love in Christ, Marty Then you disagree with the bible when it says: The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. Ezekiel 18:19-21 So I ask you is it the blood of Jesus or the belief in what Jesus taught about God that gives salvation? Jesus says: And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. John 17:2-4 Eternal life is not in the blood but in the belief in God and His Christ. Remember Christ Jesus was betrayed not coming to be crucified

No, BD, I do not disagree with what the bible states. I can not die for you nor can you die for me because the scripture states that “the soul that sinneth it shall die”, and since both you and I and all of humanity born of the sperm of man have sinned, all of us, if we have not been reconciled to God through His provision, are spiritually dead, or separated from God through the transgressions of His Eternal Law, or in other words because of that sin.

But Jesus was not born of the sperm of man, but was conceived of the Holy Ghost in the womb of the virgin Mary, BD that is what the bible states, and you are not believing this, but stating that God said “BE” and Jesus “was”. This is something that God did in order to redeem mankind. It has nothing to do with God procreating like a human. It was an act of his love for humanity by providing the sacrifice for our sins.

Quote

1 John 4:9In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. 10Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

In Isaiah 53 we have this:

Quote

6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. 8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. 9And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. 10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. 11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. 12Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Jesus was and is a man who overcame sin, death, and the grave because he obeyed God without sin even unto death on the cross. If he had sinned, then he would have been declared guilty and he would have been separated from God because of sin because the scriptures states that “the wages of sin is death” which not only means a physical death but spiritual separation from God. Jesus was accused of blasphamey and condemned to die on the cross which symbolized that he died spiritually separated from God, but God declared him not guilty, he did not commit blasphemy but was telling the truth about who he was, and therefore, God raised him from the dead.

This scripture confirms that Jesus was conceived of the Holy Ghost:

Quote

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he(God) hath purchased with his own blood.

We who are born again were spiritually separated from God through our transgressions of His Law, but we have been reconciled to Him having come to Him with a repentant heart believing God has forgiven our sins by faith in what He has done for us in the person of Jesus Christ. And we, like him will overcome sin, death, and the grave as members of his church as we learn to obey his commandments, and by his blood that will wash away our sins, when we fall short of perfect obedience.

One cannot be born again from the dead (spiritual separation from God) without the blood of Jesus washing away our sins. The Holy Ghost will not dwell in an unclean vessel. It is the blood that keeps us in the state of Holines. And salvation is by faith(believing God's Word) so that it might be by grace, and not of works because we who are stiving to obey the commandments of God in the body of Christ fall short of perfect obedience. We cannot earn our salvation by perfect obedience to God's Word. We make mistakes. And so, Jesus has said: I am the way, the truth and the life, no man can come to the Father but by me”.

You cannot have a personal relationship with God unless your sins have been forgiven, and they cannot be forgiven except through what God has done for us in the person of Jesus Christ.

Quote

1 John 5:4For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 5Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? 6This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 8And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. 9If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. 10He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 11And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

Quote

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him

Quote

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Love in Christ,
Marty
[/QUOTE]

[bodhitharta]

Quote (942767 @ May 28 2011,12:08)

Marty,

The Bible says clearly that a person can be righteous and not seperated from God. In-fact the Bible does not teach that men are seperated from God without Christ if that were so then how was Moses, Abraham and countless others favored by God.

“the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him”

There are those who were lost and in finding Christ they found God but there are those who were not lost and were always with God. When was Noah Lost?

[942767]

Quote (bodhitharta @ May 28 2011,14:54)

942767,May wrote: [/quote] Marty, The Bible says clearly that a person can be righteous and not seperated from God. In-fact the Bible does not teach that men are seperated from God without Christ if that were so then how was Moses, Abraham and countless others favored by God. “the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him” There are those who were lost and in finding Christ they found God but there are those who were not lost and were always with God. When was Noah Lost?

Hi BD:

In the OT, God used specific people to communicate with the people by His Spirit, but they nor the people were born again.

Under the Law when the people sinned, they offered the blood of animals to atone for their sins, but the blood of animals cannot wash away sins, but was a shadow of the perfect sacrifice provided by God, Jesus the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.

The scriptures state:

Quote

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Quote

Romans 3:19Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Those in the OT who were serving God in the OT will be born again when Jesus comes back for the church. They are part of the seed of Abraham, the body of Christ.

Quote

Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[bodhitharta]

Quote (942767 @ May 30 2011,00:55)

Quote (bodhitharta @ May 28 2011,14:54) Quote (942767 @ May 28 2011,12:08) Marty, The Bible says clearly that a person can be righteous and not seperated from God. In-fact the Bible does not teach that men are seperated from God without Christ if that were so then how was Moses, Abraham and countless others favored by God. “the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him” There are those who were lost and in finding Christ they found God but there are those who were not lost and were always with God. When was Noah Lost? Hi BD: In the OT, God used specific people to communicate with the people by His Spirit, but they nor the people were born again. Under the Law when the people sinned, they offered the blood of animals to atone for their sins, but the blood of animals cannot wash away sins, but was a shadow of the perfect sacrifice provided by God, Jesus the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. The scriptures state: Quote Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Quote Romans 3:19Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Those in the OT who were serving God in the OT will be born again when Jesus comes back for the church.  They are part of the seed of Abraham, the body of Christ. Quote Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. Love in Christ, Marty

So you do not believe what God said?

“the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him”

Also there is no such thing as the Old Testament Christians just refer those writings as the Old Testament but to Jews they are the only testament. No where in the earlier scriptures talk about being “born again” and the reason is “Born again” simply means to repent and turn to God thereby making things new.

And consider Abraham was the one given the Promise surely he was already saved but now the bigger issue and look

And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.
Genesis 17:8-10

Notice that the word seed is in-fact being used in the plural sense. and again

Genesis 26:3-4 (King James Version)

3Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;

4And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

The issue here is understanding and recognizing that Paul was teaching his opinion or his understanding and not what thus sayeth the Lord God and if you notice he does not say that the Lord says he is giving his own commentary. But the scriptures show that the seed of Abraham was all that came from Abraham in otherwords Abraham IS THE SEED and you actually would think that God would not Save someone he called HIS FRIEND?

[SimplyForgiven]

Hey Hey Guess what everyone !!
Christians and Muslims in fact do not believe in the same thing!

[942767]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 30 2011,05:40)

Hey Hey Guess what everyone !! Christians and Muslims in fact do not believe in the same thing!

True, SF:

And so, let's pray that God will give them revelation knowledge of the truth.

God is not willing than any man should perish, but that all may come to repentance.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Hi BD:

This is what I believe:

Quote

Romans 3:19Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

If you have ever sinned, you cannot possibly be in right standing with God without your sins being forgiven, and that is only possible through what God has done for us in the person of Jesus Christ. He is the propitiation for the sins of all of mankind. We can come to God with a repentant heart from the first death or spiritual separation from God and have all our sins forgiven by virtue of the sacrifice of His Only Begotten Son, Christ Jesus.

Anyone who rejects his Words, will suffer a second death or eternal separation from God, and the severity of his punishment will be based on his works.

Quote

2 Thes 2:3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Love in Christ,
Marty

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (942767 @ May 30 2011,01:41)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 30 2011,05:40) Hey Hey Guess what everyone !! Christians and Muslims in fact do not believe in the same thing! True, SF: And so, let's pray that God will give them revelation knowledge of the truth. God is not willing than any man should perish, but that all may come to repentance. Love in Christ, Marty

Hi Numbers,
That is true, God desires to save ALL men.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 03 2011,17:47)

Quote (942767 @ May 30 2011,01:41) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 30 2011,05:40) Hey Hey Guess what everyone !! Christians and Muslims in fact do not believe in the same thing! True, SF: And so, let's pray that God will give them revelation knowledge of the truth. God is not willing than any man should perish, but that all may come to repentance. Love in Christ, Marty Hi Numbers, That is true, God desires to save ALL men.

All Men does not mean only Christians, Jews or Muslims. Atonement only comes by means orf repentance

[Author]

Posts