- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (shimmer @ May 09 2011,11:18) Who is your Master and Lord? You cannot have two Masters. They are saying two different things.
So who is it, Jesus or Mohammad?
It is neither, it is God Almighty but you still don't understand:Nor would he instruct you to take angels and prophets for lords and patrons. What! would he bid you to unbelief after ye have bowed your will (To Allah in Islam)?
( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #80)Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.
John 15:14-16You should Worship the Lord God. shimmer it is not right for you to make Jesus or Muhammad out to be God
Bod,
Although there is only one God to be worshiped and prayed to (as Jesus said)… Jesus is the Lord, the head of the believers. You used to listen to him but now you listen to Mohammad, so Mohammad has become your Lord…. Do you follow me?
Your using the word 'Lord' wrong and misunderstanding it. Lord is the Master, Chief, Teacher, Ruler. Who you listen to and who you believe and who guides you the right way.
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father, except through me.… John 14:6
“But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is the man, and the head of Christ is God.”… 1st Corinthians 11:3
Barnes notes on the Bible:
– The word “head,” in the Scriptures, is designed often to denote “master, ruler, chief.” The word ראשׁ ro'sh is often thus used in the Old Testament; (see Numbers 17:3; Numbers 25:15; Deuteronomy 28:13, Deuteronomy 28:44; Judges 10:18; Judges 11:8, Judges 11:11; 1 Samuel 15:17; 2 Samuel 22:44). In the New Testament the word is used in the sense of Lord, ruler, chief, in (Ephesians 1:22; Ephesians 4:15; Ephesians 5:23; Colossians 2:10). Here it means that Christ is the ruler, director, or Lord of the Christian man.
1st Corinthians 8:4
“There is no other God but one. For though there are things that are called “gods,” whether in the heavens or on earth; as there are many “gods” and many “lords;”
yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we live through him.”So who is your God and who is your Lord? Because Mohammad and Jesus both say different things and only one can be right. And Jesus said there is only one way to the Father and that is through him.
Quote (shimmer @ May 09 2011,17:27) Bod, Although there is only one God to be worshiped and prayed to (as Jesus said)… Jesus is the Lord, the head of the believers. You used to listen to him but now you listen to Mohammad, so Mohammad has become your Lord…. Do you follow me?
Your using the word 'Lord' wrong and misunderstanding it. Lord is the Master, Chief, Teacher, Ruler. Who you listen to and who you believe and who guides you the right way.
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father, except through me.… John 14:6
“But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is the man, and the head of Christ is God.”… 1st Corinthians 11:3
Barnes notes on the Bible:
– The word “head,” in the Scriptures, is designed often to denote “master, ruler, chief.” The word ראשׁ ro'sh is often thus used in the Old Testament; (see Numbers 17:3; Numbers 25:15; Deuteronomy 28:13, Deuteronomy 28:44; Judges 10:18; Judges 11:8, Judges 11:11; 1 Samuel 15:17; 2 Samuel 22:44). In the New Testament the word is used in the sense of Lord, ruler, chief, in (Ephesians 1:22; Ephesians 4:15; Ephesians 5:23; Colossians 2:10). Here it means that Christ is the ruler, director, or Lord of the Christian man.
1st Corinthians 8:4
“There is no other God but one. For though there are things that are called “gods,” whether in the heavens or on earth; as there are many “gods” and many “lords;”
yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we live through him.”So who is your God and who is your Lord? Because Mohammad and Jesus both say different things and only one can be right. And Jesus said there is only one way to the Father and that is through him.
So what are you saying about the term “Lord God” That is who is My Lord and God. Do you believe that Jesus is the Lord God?Bod… I am not a Trinitarian believer.
There is Father God, the one God who Jesus prayed to and told us to pray to and that is what I do.
And there is the Lord Jesus Christ who I listen to and speak of.So… I do not read the Quran or follow Mohammad, I follow the Lord Jesus Christ and believe Him and all he says.
You – Follow Mohammad and all He says, because you reject parts of the Bible and Jesus's own words and give credence to Mohammad over Him.
Bod, again,
“Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father, except through me.” John 14:6If the only way to the Father God is through the Son Jesus Christ, then, how can you prove that it is the same God who you go to through Mohammad?
Quote (shimmer @ May 10 2011,14:12) Bod… I am not a Trinitarian believer.
There is Father God, the one God who Jesus prayed to and told us to pray to and that is what I do.
And there is the Lord Jesus Christ who I listen to and speak of.So… I do not read the Quran or follow Mohammad, I follow the Lord Jesus Christ and believe Him and all he says.
You – Follow Mohammad and all He says, because you reject parts of the Bible and Jesus's own words and give credence to Mohammad over Him.
Bod, again,
“Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father, except through me.” John 14:6If the only way to the Father God is through the Son Jesus Christ, then, how can you prove that it is the same God who you go to through Mohammad?
You misunderstand the words of Jesus, he is saying to the Jews at thyat time that he is sent to them just like Moses was the way the truth and the life and no Jew came to God except through Moses and the Law. Muhammad was sent to his people and likewise how could the Arabs get to God except through Muhammad?The Christians had already started preaching the trinity and all sorts of heresy and the Jews were not preaching Jesus nor preaching the conversion to Judaism to the Arabs.
Jesus said plainly:
He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”
Matthew 15:23-25and preached to his disciples:
Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel.
Matthew 10:5-7Do you not believe Jesus said these things and if you do, who was he talking to then when he said “no man” come to the Father except through me?
Bod,
It was through Isreal (the nation) that God planned to save the whole world, be it Jew or Gentile. Do you think that God is only the God of certain nations and nationalities? Far from it. It was through Jesus that the world is saved.The Jews thought that they were the only ones you see, they believed that salvation was only for them but it was through them that Jesus came and opened the door to anyone who believes and who tries their hardest to do what is right, so although it seems to you that Jesus was only sent to the Jews, no Bod, you need to look harder at scripture and see what it really says, and not only that, but you need to see things spiritually.
“It is too light a thing that you should be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give you for a light to the nations, that you may be my salvation to the end of the earth.”
“For God so loved the WORLD, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that THE WORLD through him might be saved”.
“Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, and said, “It was necessary that God's word should be spoken to you first. Since indeed you thrust it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, BEHOLD, WE TURN TO THE GENTILES”.
Gill's Exposition on the Bible;
Be it known therefore unto you,…. Unbelievers and despisers, take this along with you at parting, and do not say you were never acquainted with it: that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles; meaning the Gospel, which is a publication and declaration of that salvation, which God contrived from all eternity; made provision for, and secured in the covenant of grace; which he appointed, called, and sent Christ to effect, in the fulness of time; and which he has accomplished, by his obedience, sufferings, and death; even a full, complete, spiritual, and eternal salvation, from sin, Satan, the world, the curse of the law, and eternal death; that that Gospel which proclaims this, and is the power of God unto it, to them that believe, is sent to the Gentile world, by God himself, who has ordered his ministers to turn to them, upon the rejection of it by the Jews: and that they will hear it: and do understand it and obey it, believe it and profess it: this the apostle could assert upon his own knowledge, who had preached it in many nations of the world; and could testify how gladly they heard it, with what pleasure they received it, how readily they obeyed it, and how cheerfully they professed it, and how steadily they held it; though the Jews despised and put it away from them, judging themselves unworthy of everlasting life: this the apostle says, reproaching them with their folly, stupidity, and infidelity; when the Gentiles, which knew not God, received the Gospel and are saved.
Do you see that?
“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”
Quote (shimmer @ May 11 2011,20:19) Bod,
It was through Isreal (the nation) that God planned to save the whole world, be it Jew or Gentile. Do you think that God is only the God of certain nations and nationalities? Far from it. It was through Jesus that the world is saved.The Jews thought that they were the only ones you see, they believed that salvation was only for them but it was through them that Jesus came and opened the door to anyone who believes and who tries their hardest to do what is right, so although it seems to you that Jesus was only sent to the Jews, no Bod, you need to look harder at scripture and see what it really says, and not only that, but you need to see things spiritually.
“It is too light a thing that you should be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give you for a light to the nations, that you may be my salvation to the end of the earth.”
“For God so loved the WORLD, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that THE WORLD through him might be saved”.
“Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, and said, “It was necessary that God's word should be spoken to you first. Since indeed you thrust it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, BEHOLD, WE TURN TO THE GENTILES”.
Gill's Exposition on the Bible;
Be it known therefore unto you,…. Unbelievers and despisers, take this along with you at parting, and do not say you were never acquainted with it: that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles; meaning the Gospel, which is a publication and declaration of that salvation, which God contrived from all eternity; made provision for, and secured in the covenant of grace; which he appointed, called, and sent Christ to effect, in the fulness of time; and which he has accomplished, by his obedience, sufferings, and death; even a full, complete, spiritual, and eternal salvation, from sin, Satan, the world, the curse of the law, and eternal death; that that Gospel which proclaims this, and is the power of God unto it, to them that believe, is sent to the Gentile world, by God himself, who has ordered his ministers to turn to them, upon the rejection of it by the Jews: and that they will hear it: and do understand it and obey it, believe it and profess it: this the apostle could assert upon his own knowledge, who had preached it in many nations of the world; and could testify how gladly they heard it, with what pleasure they received it, how readily they obeyed it, and how cheerfully they professed it, and how steadily they held it; though the Jews despised and put it away from them, judging themselves unworthy of everlasting life: this the apostle says, reproaching them with their folly, stupidity, and infidelity; when the Gentiles, which knew not God, received the Gospel and are saved.
Do you see that?
“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”
You didn't answer my question, was Jesus wrong when he said:“I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”
Matthew 15:23-25and preached to his disciples:
Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel.
Matthew 10:5-7Yes or no?
Jesus WAS sent to the Jews only, but you are failing to see the bigger picture. This was just the beginning. After the ressurection then Jesus went on to say:
“Jesus came to them and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth. Go, and make disciples of all nations“. – Matt 28:18
“He said to them, “Go into all the world, and preach the Good News to the whole creation“. – Mark 16:15
Quote (shimmer @ May 12 2011,18:55) Ephesians chapter 2.
So you then can see how a picture can develop, right? You admit that Jess was not wrong when he said he was only sent to the Jews but yet you cannot accept that Muhammad was also sent by God.I hope you see my point but you may not. You accept that Jesus could say two different things at two different times so you should be able to believe that God can also send Muhammad as it does not go against anything God has said previously did God say and no one will come after Jesus?
Quote (bodhitharta @ May 13 2011,09:58) you should be able to believe that God can also send Muhammad
Where in the New Testement does it say that another will be sent? It doesnt. Instead it warns that there will be false teachers and false prophets. Im sure if another was to come then Jesus would have said. The Holy Spirit was sent but that was the Holy Spirit. And that happened on the day of Pentecost. And what Mohammad taught was much different than what Jesus and the Disciples and the Apostle Paul taught. And I believe everything in scripture because there was a reason it was sent around the world in the form we have it in, it is fullfillment of prophecy.Quote (shimmer @ May 13 2011,09:06) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 13 2011,09:58) you should be able to believe that God can also send Muhammad
Where in the New Testement does it say that another will be sent? It doesnt. Instead it warns that there will be false teachers and false prophets. Im sure if another was to come then Jesus would have said. The Holy Spirit was sent but that was the Holy Spirit. And that happened on the day of Pentecost. And what Mohammad taught was much different than what Jesus and the Disciples and the Apostle Paul taught. And I believe everything in scripture because there was a reason it was sent around the world in the form we have it in, it is fullfillment of prophecy.
Paul came after Jesus and said he was sent by Jesus. Did Jesus ever mention that Paul was to come?Bod, Jesus as the son of God followed his Fathers words. So he is the leader and the others were to follow him. First there were the Disciples, and then there were the Apostles such as Paul, who took the Gospel to the Gentiles.
Quote (shimmer @ May 14 2011,21:14) Bod, Jesus as the son of God followed his Fathers words. So he is the leader and the others were to follow him. First there were the Disciples, and then there were the Apostles such as Paul, who took the Gospel to the Gentiles.
There is no debate at all. You believe that Paul was sent to the gentiles although Jesus did not speak of Paul “coming” nor did Jesus tell his disciples that Paul was sent that is why they even had doubts abour Paul, so my only point is that if Paul was sent so could Muhammad be sent.Bod, they taught two different things though. Paul believed in Jesus as the son of God, who came from Heaven down to Man, who spoke the words of the Father, and who was crucified and died and was risen from the dead, just as the other Disciples and Apostles and Teachers did.
But Mohammad came along much later and taught something else. Weve already looked at what the differences were, you know what they were. Which is why I say I dont feel like going through that again, unless you REALLY want to know, but then again, you can just read the bible yourself and believe it, the choice is yours Bod.
Quote (shimmer @ May 16 2011,12:48) Bod, they taught two different things though. Paul believed in Jesus as the son of God, who came from Heaven down to Man, who spoke the words of the Father, and who was crucified and died and was risen from the dead, just as the other Disciples and Apostles and Teachers did. But Mohammad came along much later and taught something else. Weve already looked at what the differences were, you know what they were. Which is why I say I dont feel like going through that again, unless you REALLY want to know, but then again, you can just read the bible yourself and believe it, the choice is yours Bod.
Paul didn't preach all the things Jesus preached and you know that so why pretend we sorted all this out? Did Jesus say call men “Father” but Paul says he begot many through the gospel and he was their father.For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
1 Corinthians 4:14-16He is saying he is their Father but Jesus said:
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Matthew 23:8-10Can you give an explanation for this?
Bod, Shimmer,
'Father' is figurative. Just as Paul 'Begot' Onesimus (Philemon 1:10).
Onesimus was a runaway slave who Paul 'took under his wing' and became his 'Spiritual Father'.
Hence Paul calls him 'Son' and Onesimus would call Paul 'Father' – but only in a Spiritual and Figurative sense.Hence, Paul is talking to those he SPIRITUALLY adopted as Sons for the glory of Christ.
And by the way, the quote is that they 'Do NOT have many Fathers' – they do not have many 'Leaders/Teachers'
Quote (Istari @ May 18 2011,06:02) Bod, Shimmer, 'Father' is figurative. Just as Paul 'Begot' Onesimus (Philemon 1:10).
Onesimus was a runaway slave who Paul 'took under his wing' and became his 'Spiritual Father'.
Hence Paul calls him 'Son' and Onesimus would call Paul 'Father' – but only in a Spiritual and Figurative sense.Hence, Paul is talking to those he SPIRITUALLY adopted as Sons for the glory of Christ.
And by the way, the quote is that they 'Do NOT have many Fathers' – they do not have many 'Leaders/Teachers'
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Matthew 23:8-10Was Paul in Heaven?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
