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Quote (acertainchap @ Feb. 17 2008,13:38) If there is no God, ultimately, philosophically, how can one talk about reality? If there is no God (there is a God) one cannot rationally believe that there is such a thing as truth, let alone decide what it is. Proverbs 1:7
7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge,
but fools despise wisdom and discipline.
Of course there is truth without a god. Why can it not exist independently of imagined supernatural beings?Stuart
Quote (acertainchap @ Feb. 17 2008,13:38) If there is no God, ultimately, philosophically, how can one talk about reality? If there is no God (there is a God) one cannot rationally believe that there is such a thing as truth, let alone decide what it is. Proverbs 1:7
7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge,
but fools despise wisdom and discipline.
While I agree with you upon the existence of God, if philosophically we say there is no God, then the universe either spontaneously happened or was always here and that then would be truth. Truth is merely the conforming to reality or reality itself. To say that truth and God are indivisible is merely repeating the same argument that without God existence is impossible. Once again however we have strayed from the topic of Darwin, my apologies.Hi Cato
Quote Truth is merely the conforming to reality or reality itself. I wonder if some fundamentalists here high pick up this point. Judging from many posts here, what I would call reality is wrong because it does not conform to scripture. So this sentence rather than being a definition of truth in terms of reality becomes like the circular argument ‘energy is the ability to do work and work is the process of transferring energy’. Truth is still a different thing for different people by this reasoning.
Stuart
Breaking story on evolution. Stu, what do you think of this?
Love,
Mandy4 hours ago
WASHNGTON — The story of humankind is reaching back another million years as scientists learn more about “Ardi,” a hominid who lived 4.4 million years ago in what is now Ethiopia. The 110-pound, 4-foot female roamed forests a million years before the famous Lucy, long studied as the earliest skeleton of a human ancestor.
This older skeleton reverses the common wisdom of human evolution, said anthropologist C. Owen Lovejoy of Kent State University.
Rather than humans evolving from an ancient chimp-like creature, the new find provides evidence that chimps and humans evolved from some long-ago common ancestor — but each evolved and changed separately along the way.
“This is not that common ancestor, but it's the closest we have ever been able to come,” said Tim White, director of the Human Evolution Research Center at the University of California, Berkeley.
The lines that evolved into modern humans and living apes probably shared an ancestor 6 million to 7 million years ago, White said in a telephone interview.
But Ardi has many traits that do not appear in modern-day African apes, leading to the conclusion that the apes evolved extensively since we shared that last common ancestor.
A study of Ardi, under way since the first bones were discovered in 1994, indicates the species lived in the woodlands and could climb on all fours along tree branches, but the development of their arms and legs indicates they didn't spend much time in the trees. And they could walk upright, on two legs, when on the ground.
Formally dubbed Ardipithecus ramidus — which means root of the ground ape — the find is detailed in 11 research papers published Thursday by the journal Science.
“This is one of the most important discoveries for the study of human evolution,” said David Pilbeam, curator of paleoanthropology at Harvard's Peabody Museum of Archaeology and Ethnology.
“It is relatively complete in that it preserves head, hands, feet and some critical parts in between. It represents a genus plausibly ancestral to Australopithecus — itself ancestral to our genus Homo,” said Pilbeam, who was not part of the research teams.
Scientists assembled the skeleton from 125 pieces.
Lucy, also found in Africa, thrived a million years after Ardi and was of the more human-like genus Australopithecus.
“In Ardipithecus we have an unspecialized form that hasn't evolved very far in the direction of Australopithecus. So when you go from head to toe, you're seeing a mosaic creature that is neither chimpanzee, nor is it human. It is Ardipithecus,” said White.
White noted that Charles Darwin, whose research in the 19th century paved the way for the science of evolution, was cautious about the last common ancestor between humans and apes.
“Darwin said we have to be really careful. The only way we're really going to know what this last common ancestor looked like is to go and find it. Well, at 4.4 million years ago we found something pretty close to it,” White said. “And, just like Darwin appreciated, evolution of the ape lineages and the human lineage has been going on independently since the time those lines split, since that last common ancestor we shared.”
Some details about Ardi in the collection of papers:
_ Ardi was found in Ethiopia's Afar Rift, where many fossils of ancient plants and animals have been discovered. Findings near the skeleton indicate that at the time it was a wooded environment. Fossils of 29 species of birds and 20 species of small mammals were found at the site.
_ Geologist Giday WoldeGabriel of Los Alamos National Laboratory was able to use volcanic layers above and below the fossil to date it to 4.4 million years ago.
_ Ardi's upper canine teeth are more like the stubby ones of modern humans than the long, sharp, pointed ones of male chimpanzees and most other primates. An analysis of the tooth enamel suggests a diverse diet, including fruit and other woodland-based foods such as nuts and leaves.
_ Paleoanthropologist Gen Suwa of the University of Tokyo reported that Ardi's face had a projecting muzzle, giving her an ape-like appearance. But it didn't thrust forward quite as much as the lower faces of modern African apes do. Some features of her skull, such as the ridge above the eye socket, are quite different from those of chimpanzees. The details of the bottom of the skull, where nerves and blood vessels enter the brain, indicate that Ardi's brain was positioned in a way similar to modern humans, possibly suggesting that the hominid brain may have been already poised to expand areas involving aspects of visual and spatial perception.
_ Ardi's hand and wrist were a mix of primitive traits and a few new ones, but they don't include the hallmark traits of the modern tree-hanging, knuckle-walking chimps and gorillas. She had relatively short palms and fingers which were flexible, allowing her to support her body weight on her palms while moving along tree branches, but she had to be a careful climber because she lacked the anatomical features that allow modern-day African apes to swing, hang and easily move through the trees.
_ The pelvis and hip show the gluteal muscles were positioned so she could walk upright.
_ Her feet were rigid enough for walking but still had a grasping big toe for use in climbing.
The research was funded by the National Science Foundation, the Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics of the University of California, Los Alamos National Laboratory, the Japan Society for the Promotion of Science and others.
___
On the Net:
Science: http://www.sciencemag.org/
4.4 million years is getting back towards the point where things are a bit sketchy (although by no means unknown). We don't know nearly enough about our ancestors during the period 5 to 7 million years ago when we lived in the African forest, and when we shared a common ancestry with chimpanzees, mainly because forests do not form much in the way of fossils. The record after that is even worse for chimpanzees than it is for humans. Ardi would appear to be either an ancestor or in a branch off our line that went extinct. She lived about 1 1/2 million years after the split with chimps.
Notice that the Discovery Institute and Answers in Genesis are missing from the list of funders of this research. As usual!
Stuart
Breaking news, a new species was found that has 45% DNA of modern humans. Called the daffodil, scientists claim that the ancestor of humans and daffodils had two offspring that evolved extensively and separately to form what they are today. The imagined common ancestor has been nicknamed dafosapien and homodil. This discovery has also dis-proven the existence of God.
Quote (t8 @ Feb. 09 2010,08:09) Breaking news, a new species was found that has 45% DNA of modern humans. Called the daffodil, scientists claim that the ancestor of humans and daffodils had two offspring that evolved extensively and separately to form what they are today. The imagined common ancestor has been nicknamed dafosapien and homodil. This discovery has also dis-proven the existence of God.
Hi T8,Where's the link?
Ed J
Ed J.
It was tongue in cheek.
A daffodil flower has 45% DNA in common with humans, actually it is more like one third. Probably should have explained that.
So given that, I simply mimicked other stories you hear about new ape men, when you could really apply the same to daffodils.
I have remarked to Stu in the past that if Evolution is true, then we are highly evolved daffodils.
Quote I have remarked to Stu in the past that if Evolution is true, then we are highly evolved daffodils.
And you would be wrong, because we are not descended from daffodils.Quote The imagined common ancestor has been nicknamed dafosapien and homodil.
If you want to be more precise then your naming scheme should take in a few other descendants of this common ancestor.How about the Rabbitocatochimposlothocactusotuataraokiwiocrocoduckodil?
That takes in maybe a ten millionth of a percent of the total descendant species of this common ancestor.
Of course 99% of those descendant species have gone extinct.
Some design that turned out to be!
Stuart
Answers in Genesis are FOUND…
Quote (Stu @ Oct. 02 2009,13:45) Answers in Genesis are missing
Stuart
Hi Stuart,
Here is the genealogy of the First people written in Genesis…
Adam (the first man) through Noah (the first savior).
All their Hebrew names carry meanings: These meanings Point to…
“The Savior” [יהוה האלהים] in Jesus Christ(God's Son).Adam Man
Seth Appointed
Enosh Mortal
Kenan Sorrow;
Mahalalel The Blessed God
Jared Shall come down
Enoch Teaching,
Methuselah His death shall bring
Lamech The Despairing,
Noah Rest or comfort.Read as a sentence, is a hidden code, offering Proof that God
(who originated outside of time) Prophesied: The HolySpirit coming in Jesus…Man Appointed Mortal Sorrow; The Blessed God(YHVH) Shall come down
Teaching, His death(Jesus) shall bring The Despairing, Rest or comfort.Witnessing to the world in behalf of…
יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! (Psalm 45:17)
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgAdam= Mankind
Seth = Appointed
Enosh=mortal
Kenan=possession; smith
Mahalel=Praise Of God
Jared = Descent
Enoch=Initiated or Dedicated
Methusalah=”Man of the dart/spear”, or alternatively “when he dies/died, it shall be sent/has been sent”)
Lamech=For Lowering; For Humiliation.
Noah=RestMankind appointed mortal possesion praise of God descent initiated for humiliation rest.
Takes on a different meaning doesn't it but still proves God.
God made man a vicegerant on the earth that he might praise God his fall was initiated that he may learn humility and submit to God in Peace(Islam)
Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 10 2010,18:01) Adam= Mankind
Seth = Appointed
Enosh=mortal
Kenan=possession; smith
Mahalel=Praise Of God
Jared = Descent
Enoch=Initiated or Dedicated
Methusalah=”Man of the dart/spear”, or alternatively “when he dies/died, it shall be sent/has been sent”)
Lamech=For Lowering; For Humiliation.
Noah=RestMankind appointed mortal possesion praise of God descent initiated for humiliation rest.
Takes on a different meaning doesn't it but still proves God.
God made man a vicegerant on the earth that he might praise God his fall was initiated that he may learn humility and submit to God in Peace(Islam)
Hi BD,
“YHVH is GOD”=117
Here is the genealogy of the First people written in Genesis…
Adam (the first man) through Noah (the first savior).
All their Hebrew names carry meanings: These meanings Point to…
“The Savior”=117 [117=יהוה האלהים] in Jesus Christ(God's Son).Adam Man
Seth Appointed
Enosh Mortal
Kenan Sorrow;
Mahalalel The Blessed God
Jared Shall come down
Enoch Teaching,
Methuselah His death shall bring
Lamech The Despairing,
Noah Rest or comfort.Read as a sentence, is a hidden code, offering Proof that God
(who originated outside of time) Prophesied: The HolySpirit coming in Jesus…Man Appointed Mortal Sorrow; The Blessed God(YHVH) Shall come down
Teaching, His death(Jesus) shall bring The Despairing, Rest or comfort.Luke 2:34: And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold,
this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;
(Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.PSALM 117 “is” [The Bible's Center], the “[smallest chapter]” of the [LARGEST BOOK]!
Witnessing to the world in behalf of…
117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! (Psalm 45:17)
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Feb. 10 2010,17:07) Answers in Genesis are FOUND… Quote (Stu @ Oct. 02 2009,13:45) Answers in Genesis are missing
Stuart
Hi Stuart,
Here is the genealogy of the First people written in Genesis…
Adam (the first man) through Noah (the first savior).
All their Hebrew names carry meanings: These meanings Point to…
“The Savior” [יהוה האלהים] in Jesus Christ(God's Son).Adam Man
Seth Appointed
Enosh Mortal
Kenan Sorrow;
Mahalalel The Blessed God
Jared Shall come down
Enoch Teaching,
Methuselah His death shall bring
Lamech The Despairing,
Noah Rest or comfort.Read as a sentence, is a hidden code, offering Proof that God
(who originated outside of time) Prophesied: The HolySpirit coming in Jesus…Man Appointed Mortal Sorrow; The Blessed God(YHVH) Shall come down
Teaching, His death(Jesus) shall bring The Despairing, Rest or comfort.Witnessing to the world in behalf of…
יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! (Psalm 45:17)
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
But as we have established already, you have not had your supposed code analysed for probability by a real statistician, and you cannot show that it is more significant a pattern than numberological codes of patterns of random words. It is not something that impresses me, because actually there is nothing extraordinary about it.According to real fossil and DNA evidence, this is NOT the genealogy of the first people, because there never was a time of just a few humans.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Feb. 10 2010,21:18) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 10 2010,17:07) Answers in Genesis are FOUND… Quote (Stu @ Oct. 02 2009,13:45) Answers in Genesis are missing
Stuart
Hi Stuart,
Here is the genealogy of the First people written in Genesis…
Adam (the first man) through Noah (the first savior).
All their Hebrew names carry meanings: These meanings Point to…
“The Savior” [יהוה האלהים] in Jesus Christ(God's Son).Adam Man
Seth Appointed
Enosh Mortal
Kenan Sorrow;
Mahalalel The Blessed God
Jared Shall come down
Enoch Teaching,
Methuselah His death shall bring
Lamech The Despairing,
Noah Rest or comfort.Read as a sentence, is a hidden code, offering Proof that God
(who originated outside of time) Prophesied: The HolySpirit coming in Jesus…Man Appointed Mortal Sorrow; The Blessed God(YHVH) Shall come down
Teaching, His death(Jesus) shall bring The Despairing, Rest or comfort.Witnessing to the world in behalf of…
יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! (Psalm 45:17)
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
But as we have established already, you have not had your supposed code analysed for probability by a real statistician, and you cannot show that it is more significant a pattern than numberological codes of patterns of random words. It is not something that impresses me, because actually there is nothing extraordinary about it.According to real fossil and DNA evidence, this is NOT the genealogy of the first people, because there never was a time of just a few humans.
Stuart
Hi Stuart,This Biblical writing along with it's meanings can be PROVEN to have existed prior to Jesus birth.
Why do you continue to dismiss FACTS I produce for you as inconsequential and irrelevant?
You said if there were FACTS to support GOD, you would consider them; why don't you then?Ed J
You yourself said that you have not statistically analysed your codes for their probabilities. Therefore your numerology actually contains no facts at all. You have never explained how you calculate all these numbers either.
I have dismissed nothing, because there is nothing to dismiss.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Feb. 11 2010,04:16) You yourself said that you have not statistically analysed your codes for their probabilities. Therefore your numerology actually contains no facts at all. You have never explained how you calculate all these numbers either. I have dismissed nothing, because there is nothing to dismiss.
Stuart
there are 26 letters in the alphabet starting with A which = 1 and so on.. B=2, C=3, D=4, E=5 and so on.B, K, and T will end up being 2, 11, and 20
now in strict numerology you would further breakdown the numbers until they are single digits
So technically B, K and T would all breakdown to 2
C=3, L=12 and U=21 all breakdown to 3 and so on.
Quote (Stu @ Feb. 11 2010,04:16) You yourself said that you have not statistically analysed your codes for their probabilities. Therefore your numerology actually contains no facts at all.
You have never explained how you calculate all these numbers either.I have dismissed nothing, because there is nothing to dismiss.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Jan. 05 2010,16:59) “Gullible” = 23
“Numerology” = 46You are exactly twice as gullible if you believe in numerology.
That's a proven fact.
Stuart
Hi Stuart
Have you lost you memory?
Ed J
Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 10 2010,21:42) Quote (Stu @ Feb. 10 2010,21:18) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 10 2010,17:07) Answers in Genesis are FOUND… Quote (Stu @ Oct. 02 2009,13:45) Answers in Genesis are missing
Stuart
Hi Stuart,
Here is the genealogy of the First people written in Genesis…
Adam (the first man) through Noah (the first savior).
All their Hebrew names carry meanings: These meanings Point to…
“The Savior” [יהוה האלהים] in Jesus Christ(God's Son).Adam Man
Seth Appointed
Enosh Mortal
Kenan Sorrow;
Mahalalel The Blessed God
Jared Shall come down
Enoch Teaching,
Methuselah His death shall bring
Lamech The Despairing,
Noah Rest or comfort.Read as a sentence, is a hidden code, offering Proof that God
(who originated outside of time) Prophesied: The HolySpirit coming in Jesus…Man Appointed Mortal Sorrow; The Blessed God(YHVH) Shall come down
Teaching, His death(Jesus) shall bring The Despairing, Rest or comfort.Witnessing to the world in behalf of…
יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! (Psalm 45:17)
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
But as we have established already, you have not had your supposed code analysed for probability by a real statistician, and you cannot show that it is more significant a pattern than numberological codes of patterns of random words. It is not something that impresses me, because actually there is nothing extraordinary about it.According to real fossil and DNA evidence, this is NOT the genealogy of the first people, because there never was a time of just a few humans.
Stuart
Hi Stuart,This Biblical writing along with it's meanings can be PROVEN to have existed prior to Jesus birth.
Why do you continue to dismiss FACTS I produce for you as inconsequential and irrelevant?
You said if there were FACTS to support GOD, you would consider them; why don't you then?Ed J
Hi Stuart,More FACTS for you to turn your back on.
Ed J
Humans have a tendency to see patterns and meaning where there is none. I think this has been proven. Because of that tendency, we have to be really careful about seeing patterns that we want to see in places we want and expect to see them.
Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 11 2010,15:31) Quote (Stu @ Feb. 11 2010,04:16) You yourself said that you have not statistically analysed your codes for their probabilities. Therefore your numerology actually contains no facts at all.
You have never explained how you calculate all these numbers either.I have dismissed nothing, because there is nothing to dismiss.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Jan. 05 2010,16:59) “Gullible” = 23
“Numerology” = 46You are exactly twice as gullible if you believe in numerology.
That's a proven fact.
Stuart
Hi Stuart
Have you lost you memory?
Ed J
You have never explained to me how you calculate your numbers.If you have, instead of replying with a quote of ME making up a calculation, why don't you quote the post where YOU showed me?
I'll tell you why: there never was such a post.
It is not my memory that is at fault here.
Stuart
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