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Quote (Cato @ Feb. 07 2008,01:58) Everyone likes to hit on Stuart about man coming from apes, perhaps in jest because of his avatar.
Yet, think about this, is it any worse to come from other primates, then dust from the ground, as per Genesis? If we believe we are made in God's image (which can be open to widely varying interpretations) I think we can assume this applies to the final product rather then either the raw materials or previous prototypes.Personally I am not offended either way, and any being sufficiently powerful to create the universe could create man in any manner from any material, he wished.
Hi Cato,The avatar itself is in jest! Of course we did not come from chimpanzees but we shared an ancesor in common with them 5 to 7 million years ago.
I still wonder how your description plays out. Natural selection is a blind process, mainly responding to changes in the environment. If a deity has caused humans to arise by evolution, that being must have manipulated the environment in order to bring about the flat-faced big-brained apes that we are, and as we are still evolving, faster than ever, you have to ask whether we are the 'final' form of his creation.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Feb. 07 2008,19:23) Quote (Cato @ Feb. 07 2008,01:58) Everyone likes to hit on Stuart about man coming from apes, perhaps in jest because of his avatar.
Yet, think about this, is it any worse to come from other primates, then dust from the ground, as per Genesis? If we believe we are made in God's image (which can be open to widely varying interpretations) I think we can assume this applies to the final product rather then either the raw materials or previous prototypes.Personally I am not offended either way, and any being sufficiently powerful to create the universe could create man in any manner from any material, he wished.
Hi Cato,The avatar itself is in jest! Of course we did not come from chimpanzees but we shared an ancesor in common with them 5 to 7 million years ago.
I still wonder how your description plays out. Natural selection is a blind process, mainly responding to changes in the environment. If a deity has caused humans to arise by evolution, that being must have manipulated the environment in order to bring about the flat-faced big-brained apes that we are, and as we are still evolving, faster than ever, you have to ask whether we are the 'final' form of his creation.
Stuart
Probably not, hopefully we are evolving in both a spiritual and following that perhaps, a physical sense. The alchemists of old when they talked of turning lead into gold really meant that they viewed their work as helping the progression of humanity from its current state, lead, into something greater, gold. Who knows maybe they knew something.Hi Stu,
Nothing is impossible for God.
Why limit yourself to the puny observations of men
when there are revelations of greater and more wonderful things that are unseen?Quote (Cato @ Feb. 07 2008,23:36) Quote (Stu @ Feb. 07 2008,19:23) Quote (Cato @ Feb. 07 2008,01:58) Everyone likes to hit on Stuart about man coming from apes, perhaps in jest because of his avatar.
Yet, think about this, is it any worse to come from other primates, then dust from the ground, as per Genesis? If we believe we are made in God's image (which can be open to widely varying interpretations) I think we can assume this applies to the final product rather then either the raw materials or previous prototypes.Personally I am not offended either way, and any being sufficiently powerful to create the universe could create man in any manner from any material, he wished.
Hi Cato,The avatar itself is in jest! Of course we did not come from chimpanzees but we shared an ancesor in common with them 5 to 7 million years ago.
I still wonder how your description plays out. Natural selection is a blind process, mainly responding to changes in the environment. If a deity has caused humans to arise by evolution, that being must have manipulated the environment in order to bring about the flat-faced big-brained apes that we are, and as we are still evolving, faster than ever, you have to ask whether we are the 'final' form of his creation.
Stuart
Probably not, hopefully we are evolving in both a spiritual and following that perhaps, a physical sense. The alchemists of old when they talked of turning lead into gold really meant that they viewed their work as helping the progression of humanity from its current state, lead, into something greater, gold. Who knows maybe they knew something.
That's an interesting interpretation of alchemy I had not seen before. I thought they were just interested in finding an easy way to make money. They were also obsessed with phosphorus and made vast quantities of the stuff by boiling down urine, to show off to their alchemist friends all over Europe. The superb epilogue to alchemy is that as modern chemistry developed it became increasingly clear that gold could not be produced from other elements, until only recently developments in nuclear physics have made it possible to turn lead into gold. It seems to be the nuclear physicists, and more directly the quantum physicists that you now ask for the state-of-the-art answers on the universe.Stuart
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 08 2008,04:57) Hi Stu,
Nothing is impossible for God.
Why limit yourself to the puny observations of men
when there are revelations of greater and more wonderful things that are unseen?
This would be your default, all-purpose platitude I guess.Can god make a prison from which he can't escape? Does he know in advance that he won't be able to? How omnipotent and omniscient is you god? Good enough to overcome logical paradox? Was Douglas Adams right, did god disappear in a puff of logic?
Stuart
Hi Stu,
He makes the lovers of logic to be found as fools.
Each day ticks over another opportunity called today.Game playing eventually ends no matter how entertaining it may seem.
Will you have many more and found still playing games when the end comes?Better to know the answers before you are asked the questions.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 08 2008,17:21) Hi Stu,
He makes the lovers of logic to be found as fools.
Each day ticks over another opportunity called today.Game playing eventually ends no matter how entertaining it may seem.
Will you have many more and found still playing games when the end comes?Better to know the answers before you are asked the questions.
I have often wondered why you play games here. The game you play, in my opinion, is running away from difficult questions, which I suppose is a skill valuable in the political world.Stuart
Hi Stu,
You should look at one or two more difficult questions.
Perhaps you think when you die that is the end.
The bible makes a strong point that it is not.
Are you a risk taker in this light?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 08 2008,17:59) Hi Stu,
You should look at one or two more difficult questions.
Perhaps you think when you die that is the end.
The bible makes a strong point that it is not.
Are you a risk taker in this light?
There is no risk at all. When you die you die. That's it. Your only immortality is in the memories of others. What evidence to the contrary do you have?What is difficult about that question?
Stuart
Hi Stu,
You are indeed a great risk taker.
No other man of importance in Acts insulted his God when speaking with him as they had a certain native cunning that told them that while they might be right about Him not existing they might also be wrong so insulting Him was an unnecessary risk.
And you are not even a man of importance.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 08 2008,18:20) Hi Stu,
You are indeed a great risk taker.
No other man of importance in Acts insulted his God when speaking with him as they had a certain native cunning that told them that while they might be right about Him not existing they might also be wrong so insulting Him was an unnecessary risk.
And you are not even a man of importance.
Pascal's Wager again; the most cowardly philosophy of all time.Stuart
Hi Stu,
You would not be here insulting our God is you were not deeply angry with Him.
You would be utterly bored with us here unless you had a bone to pick.
It would be more sensible to try something safer
Like bungy jumping with no cord.Quote (Stu @ Feb. 08 2008,17:25) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 08 2008,17:21) Hi Stu,
He makes the lovers of logic to be found as fools.
Each day ticks over another opportunity called today.Game playing eventually ends no matter how entertaining it may seem.
Will you have many more and found still playing games when the end comes?Better to know the answers before you are asked the questions.
I have often wondered why you play games here. The game you play, in my opinion, is running away from difficult questions, which I suppose is a skill valuable in the political world.Stuart
Hi Stu,
We do hope to reflect back to folk what they seem to be thinking so they can align those thoughts better and more in accord with what is revealed.We learn so much so it is a cheat's way of studying the bible.
Philosophers dance in the flame.
Quote You would not be here insulting our God is you were not deeply angry with Him.
I only judge him on what he confessed to in the OT. If he existed he would be worthy of contempt. As he doesn’t then my contempt is also non-existent.Quote You would be utterly bored with us here unless you had a bone to pick. It would be more sensible to try something safer Like bungy jumping with no cord.
What a corny similie. Do you read a lot of creationist propaganda?Quote We do hope to reflect back to folk what they seem to be thinking so they can align those thoughts better and more in accord with what is revealed.
I don’t think anything is ‘revealed’ to you. I think that you think you learn things by special means, but actually it is all a big game. To a visiting alien the trinity thread must seem indistinguishable from online gaming. The more I read here of the experiences and interpretations of the natural world in religious terms the more I realist that ‘revelation’ is just another bluff. Not only do you not have any special knowledge, neither do you have any special antennae for receiving it.Quote We learn so much so it is a cheat's way of studying the bible. Philosophers dance in the flame.
More empty platitudes. Your bluff is showing.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Feb. 08 2008,16:22) Quote (Cato @ Feb. 07 2008,23:36) Quote (Stu @ Feb. 07 2008,19:23) Quote (Cato @ Feb. 07 2008,01:58) Everyone likes to hit on Stuart about man coming from apes, perhaps in jest because of his avatar.
Yet, think about this, is it any worse to come from other primates, then dust from the ground, as per Genesis? If we believe we are made in God's image (which can be open to widely varying interpretations) I think we can assume this applies to the final product rather then either the raw materials or previous prototypes.Personally I am not offended either way, and any being sufficiently powerful to create the universe could create man in any manner from any material, he wished.
Hi Cato,The avatar itself is in jest! Of course we did not come from chimpanzees but we shared an ancesor in common with them 5 to 7 million years ago.
I still wonder how your description plays out. Natural selection is a blind process, mainly responding to changes in the environment. If a deity has caused humans to arise by evolution, that being must have manipulated the environment in order to bring about the flat-faced big-brained apes that we are, and as we are still evolving, faster than ever, you have to ask whether we are the 'final' form of his creation.
Stuart
Probably not, hopefully we are evolving in both a spiritual and following that perhaps, a physical sense. The alchemists of old when they talked of turning lead into gold really meant that they viewed their work as helping the progression of humanity from its current state, lead, into something greater, gold. Who knows maybe they knew something.
That's an interesting interpretation of alchemy I had not seen before. I thought they were just interested in finding an easy way to make money. They were also obsessed with phosphorus and made vast quantities of the stuff by boiling down urine, to show off to their alchemist friends all over Europe. The superb epilogue to alchemy is that as modern chemistry developed it became increasingly clear that gold could not be produced from other elements, until only recently developments in nuclear physics have made it possible to turn lead into gold. It seems to be the nuclear physicists, and more directly the quantum physicists that you now ask for the state-of-the-art answers on the universe.Stuart
Stuart,
Many alchemists (discounting of course the various con men attempting to liberate funds from the gullible aristocracy) were in actuality occultists who believed that the soul, spirit and ultimately the physical body could through various means evolve into a higher form of being. In great fear of the Catholic Church and the Inquisition they coded their work into the language of chemistry and metalurgy as a blind to their true work. If they openly discussed their true thoughts they would have been given to the tender mercies of the rack and the stake as heretics. They were in interesting lot from Dr. Dees to the almost mythic Count St. Germain. The lead to gold business was both blind and metaphor though there were some claims made that St. Germain for one could actually do so.Quote (Stu @ Feb. 08 2008,21:57) Quote You would not be here insulting our God is you were not deeply angry with Him.
I only judge him on what he confessed to in the OT. If he existed he would be worthy of contempt. As he doesn’t then my contempt is also non-existent.Quote You would be utterly bored with us here unless you had a bone to pick. It would be more sensible to try something safer Like bungy jumping with no cord.
What a corny similie. Do you read a lot of creationist propaganda?Quote We do hope to reflect back to folk what they seem to be thinking so they can align those thoughts better and more in accord with what is revealed.
I don’t think anything is ‘revealed’ to you. I think that you think you learn things by special means, but actually it is all a big game. To a visiting alien the trinity thread must seem indistinguishable from online gaming. The more I read here of the experiences and interpretations of the natural world in religious terms the more I realist that ‘revelation’ is just another bluff. Not only do you not have any special knowledge, neither do you have any special antennae for receiving it.Quote We learn so much so it is a cheat's way of studying the bible. Philosophers dance in the flame.
More empty platitudes. Your bluff is showing.Stuart
Hi Stu,
We know that you do not believe us as you tell us every day.
We believe and love to walk in His paths because we know our reward.
So why continue to harrass those who believe if your pay rate is so low?Quote (Cato @ Feb. 09 2008,02:00) Quote (Stu @ Feb. 08 2008,16:22) Quote (Cato @ Feb. 07 2008,23:36) Quote (Stu @ Feb. 07 2008,19:23) Quote (Cato @ Feb. 07 2008,01:58) Everyone likes to hit on Stuart about man coming from apes, perhaps in jest because of his avatar.
Yet, think about this, is it any worse to come from other primates, then dust from the ground, as per Genesis? If we believe we are made in God's image (which can be open to widely varying interpretations) I think we can assume this applies to the final product rather then either the raw materials or previous prototypes.Personally I am not offended either way, and any being sufficiently powerful to create the universe could create man in any manner from any material, he wished.
Hi Cato,The avatar itself is in jest! Of course we did not come from chimpanzees but we shared an ancesor in common with them 5 to 7 million years ago.
I still wonder how your description plays out. Natural selection is a blind process, mainly responding to changes in the environment. If a deity has caused humans to arise by evolution, that being must have manipulated the environment in order to bring about the flat-faced big-brained apes that we are, and as we are still evolving, faster than ever, you have to ask whether we are the 'final' form of his creation.
Stuart
Probably not, hopefully we are evolving in both a spiritual and following that perhaps, a physical sense. The alchemists of old when they talked of turning lead into gold really meant that they viewed their work as helping the progression of humanity from its current state, lead, into something greater, gold. Who knows maybe they knew something.
That's an interesting interpretation of alchemy I had not seen before. I thought they were just interested in finding an easy way to make money. They were also obsessed with phosphorus and made vast quantities of the stuff by boiling down urine, to show off to their alchemist friends all over Europe. The superb epilogue to alchemy is that as modern chemistry developed it became increasingly clear that gold could not be produced from other elements, until only recently developments in nuclear physics have made it possible to turn lead into gold. It seems to be the nuclear physicists, and more directly the quantum physicists that you now ask for the state-of-the-art answers on the universe.Stuart
Stuart,
Many alchemists (discounting of course the various con men attempting to liberate funds from the gullible aristocracy) were in actuality occultists who believed that the soul, spirit and ultimately the physical body could through various means evolve into a higher form of being. In great fear of the Catholic Church and the Inquisition they coded their work into the language of chemistry and metalurgy as a blind to their true work. If they openly discussed their true thoughts they would have been given to the tender mercies of the rack and the stake as heretics. They were in interesting lot from Dr. Dees to the almost mythic Count St. Germain. The lead to gold business was both blind and metaphor though there were some claims made that St. Germain for one could actually do so.
What you describe sounds a little like the chemical version of Social Darwinism.Stuart
Quote We know that you do not believe us as you tell us every day. We believe and love to walk in His paths because we know our reward. So why continue to harrass those who believe if your pay rate is so low?
You claim to have access to insight that the non-believer doesn’t. That is an arrogant and unsupported claim. I am calling your bluff. What is your convincing response?Stuart
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