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2besee would not answer my question but kept dodging it concerning the highlighted segment of Zechariah 14:5 below:
Zechariah 14:5> And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
He refuses to answer because it contradicts his doctrine.
And that is deceitful.
So, unfortunately, this is the only way to make him accountable, by coming to the hot seat.So 2besee, again…my question:
What Day in the scriptures does The Lord come with all His saints?
I await.
Devo,
Open you EYES.This was my answer to the entire chapter.
Zech 13:6-7.
And if one asks him, `What are these wounds on your back?' he will say, `The wounds I received in the house of my friends.'” “Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, against the man who stands next to me,” says the LORD of hosts. “Strike the shepherd, that the sheep may be scattered; I will turn my hand against the little ones.
In the whole land, says the LORD, two thirds shall be cut off and perish, and one third shall be left alive. And I will put this third into the fire, and refine them as one refines silver, and test them as gold is tested. They will call on my name, and I will answer them. I will say, `They are my people'; and they will say, `The LORD is my God.'”
Jesus' first coming.
Next Chapter follows on..Zech.14:1-3.
Behold, a day of the LORD is coming, when the spoil taken from you will be divided in the midst of you. For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city shall be taken and the houses plundered and the women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then the LORD will go forth and fight against those nations as when he fights on a day of battle.
Matt 24
“You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another, that will not be thrown down………So when you see the desolating sacrilege spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains; let him who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house; and let him who is in the field not turn back to take his mantle. And alas for those who are with child and for those who give suck in those days! Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a sabbath. ”
Zech 14:4-5.
On that day his feet shall stand on the Mount of Olives which lies before Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives shall be split in two from east to west by a very wide valley; so that one half of the Mount shall withdraw northward, and the other half southward. And the valley of my mountains shall be stopped up, for the valley of the mountains shall touch the side of it; and you shall flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzzi'ah king of Judah. Then the LORD your God will come, and all the holy ones with him.
John 8:1'Jesus, however, went to the Mount of Olives.'
Matt 21:1
'When they came near Jerusalem and had reached Bethphage on the Mount of Olives, Jesus sent two disciples on ahead and told them, “Go into the village ahead of you. At once you will find a donkey tied up and a colt with it. Untie them, and bring them to me.'
Matt 24:3
'While Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately and said, “Tell us, when will these things take place, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
Luke 22: 39
'Then he left and went to the Mount of Olives, as usual. The disciples went with him.'
Mark 14:32
'Then they came to a place called Gethsemane, and he told his disciples, “Sit down here while I pray.”
Zechariah 14:6-7.
On that day there shall be neither cold nor frost. And there shall be continuous day (it is known to the LORD), not day and not night, for at evening time there shall be light.
John 8:12
'Jesus spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world. The one who follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.“
John 12:46
'I've come into the world as light, so that everyone who believes in me won't remain in the darkness'
Zechariah 14:8-9
On that day living waters shall flow out from Jerusalem, half of them to the eastern sea and half of them to the western sea; it shall continue in summer as in winter.
John 4:10
'Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who is saying to you, 'Please give me a drink,' you would have been the one to ask him, and he would have given you living water.“
John 4:13
'Jesus answered her, “Everyone who drinks this water will become thirsty again. But whoever drinks the water that I will give him will never become thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become a well of water for him, springing up to eternal life.”
John 7:38
'The one who believes in me, as the Scripture has said, will have rivers of living water flowing from his heart.”
Zech 14:9-10
And the LORD will become king over all the earth; on that day the LORD will be one and his name one.
Matt 21:37
'Jesus asked them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures,‘The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone. This was the Lord’s doing, and it is amazing in our eyes.’ That is why I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce fruit for it.
John 3:16
“For this is how God loved the world: He gave his only begotten Son so that everyone who believes in him might not be lost but have eternal life.”
Acts 13:47
'I have made you a light to the gentiles to be the means of salvation to the very ends of the earth.'”
Zech 14:10-11.
The whole land shall be turned into a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem. But Jerusalem shall remain aloft upon its site from the Gate of Benjamin to the place of the former gate, to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Han'anel to the king's wine presses. And it shall be inhabited, for there shall be no more curse; Jerusalem shall dwell in security.
John 4:21
“Believe me, dear lady, the hour is coming when you Samaritans will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You don’t know what you’re worshiping. We Jews know what we’re worshiping, because salvation comes from the Jews. Yet the time is coming, and is now here, when true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth. Indeed, the Father is looking for people like that to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”
Gal 4;25
'Hagar is Mount Sinai in Ar
abia and corresponds to present-day Jerusalem, because she is in slavery along with her children. But the heavenly Jerusalem is the free woman, and she is our spiritual mother.'Hebrews 12:22
'Instead, you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, to the heavenly Jerusalem, to tens of thousands of angels joyfully gathered together, to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, to a judge who is the God of all, to the spirits of righteous people who have been made perfect, to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better message than Abel’s.'
Now will you answer my question, which you avoided.
2Pet.3
[1]This is now the second letter that I have written to you, beloved, and in both of them I have aroused your sincere mind by way of reminder;
[2] that you should remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles.
[3] First of all you must understand this, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own passions
[4] and saying, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things have continued as they were from the beginning of creation.”
[5] They deliberately ignore this fact, that by the word of God heavens existed long ago, and an earth formed out of water and by means of water,
[6] through which the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished.
[7] But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist have been stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
[8]But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
[9] The Lord is not slow about his promise as some count slowness, but is forbearing toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
[10] But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and the works that are upon it will be burned up.
[11]Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of persons ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness,
[12] waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be kindled and dissolved, and the elements will melt with fire!
[13] But according to his promise we wait for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
[14]Therefore, beloved, since you wait for these, be zealous to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace.
[15] And count the forbearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him,
[16] speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures.
[17] You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability.
[18] But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.————-
Your understanding.
Thanks.Zachariah chapter 14 is fulfilled prophecy, Devo. Can you not see that? Can you not see the hidden parts in among that entire chapter?
2besee,Feb. wrote:[/quote]
No 2besee,This challenge is for YOU to answer my questions on Zechariah 14 SINCE you refuse to answer plainly…NOT for you to keep diverting & dodging my question.
I asked WHAT DAY IS THE DAY THAT JESUS COMES WITH ALL HIS SAINTS.
So what is this?…
Quote John 8:1 'Jesus, however, went to the Mount of Olives.'
Matt 21:1
'When they came near Jerusalem and had reached Bethphage on the Mount of Olives, Jesus sent two disciples on ahead and told them, “Go into the village ahead of you. At once you will find a donkey tied up and a colt with it. Untie them, and bring them to me.'Matt 24:3
'While Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately and said, “Tell us, when will these things take place, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”Luke 22: 39
'Then he left and went to the Mount of Olives, as usual. The disciples went with him.'Mark 14:32
'Then they came to a place called Gethsemane, and he told his disciples, “Sit down here while I pray.”How on earth is this answering me?
Of course Jesus went to the Mount of Olives!!
And quite often at that!!But did He ever CLEAVE THE MOUNT OPEN AND MAKE A VALLEY FOR JEWS TO ESCAPE THROUGH??
SPLITTING THE MOUNT OF OLIVES IN HALF!!
AND WHILE THEY ARE FLEEING THROUGH THAT RESULTING VALLEY, IT SAYS:“and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.”
Nobody was fleeing when Jesus rode the colt into Jerusalem & the Mount of Olives is still in one piece even today!!
And you tell me to open my eyes??
Are you playing games?
Again, answer me HONESTLY…
What DAY is written and reserved in the scriptures, both Old Testament & New Testament, where Jesus COMES with ALL His SAINTS?
Answer it.
Quote (Devolution @ Feb. 14 2013,00:56) 2besee would not answer my question but kept dodging it concerning the highlighted segment of Zechariah 14:5 below: Zechariah 14:5> And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
He refuses to answer because it contradicts his doctrine.
And that is deceitful.
So, unfortunately, this is the only way to make him accountable, by coming to the hot seat.So 2besee, again…my question:
What Day in the scriptures does The Lord come with all His saints?
I await.
You have been dodging questions, Devolution. I asked the same question over and over but you would not answer. It was a simple question. And when you would not answer, after I had answered your question, you asked me another question, and then when I did not answer because I was posting in another thread, only one day after your question, you had a tantrum at me?? and you call me all manner of things. And it is not the first time that you have over-reacted. I noticed it in the beginning. Even after you misquoted me, putting your own words in a quote and trying to make it look like I said something that i never said, I remained calm and came across as well mannered as I possibly could, and asked if you could please not do that. Even though you called me a liar, regarding your misquotes, twice, when I was not lying.
So then, I take a really good look at the verse in question, and I pray for understanding, because nobody seems to be able to understand that chapter well. I see what I see, and I post it, and then you have a tantrum at me again and say that I never answered your question.
If you cannot make the spiritual and hidden connection to Zechariah 14, then you are seeing it through earthly eyes.
The question is answered.
As you wish to see me tiled, as you said, for a reason that I do know, okay.
Devolution,
You ask “What day?”
It was A day, not The Dayas I have shown you with the translation differences. A day of the Lord is not THE Day of the Lord (2nd Peter 3).
The time in question that you ask about has been fulfilled, from the time from Jesus, until now, and on, until the end.
Peter shows those days leading up to THE Day of the Lord.
2Peter 8.
But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slow about his promise as some count slowness, but is forbearing toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
'But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and the works that are upon it will be burned up.'
'But according to his promise we wait for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.'
Can you not see that?
Quote (Devolution @ Feb. 14 2013,00:56) 2besee would not answer my question but kept dodging it concerning the highlighted segment of Zechariah 14:5 below: Zechariah 14:5> And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
Regarding this verse which I do not have the answer to, I will quote a commentary to keep you happy, and then this “”conversation”” is finished. (Because your intentions I believe are not good)
And ye shall flee by the valley of my mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azel; yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah; and Jehovah my God shall come, and all the holy ones with thee.
And ye shall flee…
Here is the secret of how the residue of the people were not cut off (Zechariah 14:2). They would escape through flight, a possibility envisioned here as being opened up by the mighty earthquake and the splitting of the mountain. Did it happen? Indeed so. Josephus recounts the amazing, unnecessary, and incredible withdrawal of Cestius Gallus in the siege of Jerusalem, stating that, Upon his besieging Jerusalem, he retreated from the city without any just occasion in the world. : Of course, it was during that interval that every Christian, having heeded Jesus' warning, had opportunity to escape and flee. It was indeed an earthquake that opened up a way of escape. In this there is also a pledge that in the great holocaust that shall conclude our age, not a single Christian shall be lost.Earthquake… in the days of Uzziah…
The exact date of this earthquake is not known; but it is mentioned in Amos 1:1; and Josephus describes it as a supernatural occurrence that interrupted Uzziah's presumptuous usurpation of the priestly function by going into the sanctuary to offer incense:- 'A great earthquake shook the ground … a rent was made in the temple … leprosy seized upon the king immediately … Before the city at a place called Eroge, half the mountain broke off from the rest on the west, and rolled itself four furlongs and stood still at the east mountain. The roads, as well as the king's gardens, were spoiled by the obstruction.' :
As Whiston declared, 'There seems to have been some considerable resemblance between these historical and prophetic earthquakes.' :
That this earthquake is identifiable with the final judgment appears in the fact of that earthquake in Uzziah's day having been a judgment upon him for presumptuous sin; and Zechariah immediately made that clear by the words:
And Jehovah my God shall come, and all the holy ones with thee…
Significantly Jesus Christ himself in the Matthew parallel made certain reference to the final judgment:- 'Then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send forth his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other (Matthew 24:30,31).'
And all the holy ones with thee…
The holy ones are the angels. : Many New Testament passages associate the holy ones or angels with the Second Coming of Christ, as in Matt. 13:41,49, and 2 Thess. 1:7.With thee…
The change to the second person here is no problem. It is simply the manner in which the prophets wrote. See under Zech. 14:3, above.To make the connection between this passage and Matt. 24 even more certain, it should be recalled that when Jesus spoke the remarkable words recorded in Matt. 24, that he did so sitting upon the mount of Olives, the very mountain so prominent in this passage (Matthew 24:3); add that to the fact of this passage in Zechariah's being one of only two places where the mountain is mentioned in the Old Testament (the other being Ezek. 11:23), and named only in this place. From all this, it is clear enough that Jesus interpreted this passage as teaching the same thing that he taught in Matt. 24.
From HERE
Done, finished, answered, closed.
2besee,
I will be answering everything you have put to me soon enough on that other thread…so don't think I am shying away…because I'm not, what is happening is this, I asked you a simple question, and I know you know what it means 2besee…every Christian who reads the scriptures would instantly know what that declaration meant…because it can only mean one thing.(CONTEXT was given too remember)
So let me ask you again, & given with context once again…
1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
**So the DAY OF THE LORD COMETH…(mentioned throughout the New Testament.)
**And ALL NATIONS will be gathered against Jerusalem…(mentioned often in the Old Testament & in New Testament)
**The CITY Jerusalem gets conquered and goes into CAPTIVITY…so there is a PERIOD OF TIME where Jerusalem is under OCCUPATION which is what Captivity is…(mentioned within the Old & New Testament)
**THEN after a set time of CAPTIVITY….(mentioned in the Old & New Testament)9
The Lord will GO FORTH & FIGHT against those nations that gathered against Jerusalem…ALL NATIONS!! (Mentioned in Old & New Testament)
But first He SPLITS THE MOUNT OF OLIVES IN HALF creating a valley for those Jews to flee through…(only in Zechariah)
**And then it says: And The Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with Thee” (mentioned in Old & New Testament)
**And then it tells us that IN THAT DAY the light will be neither light nor dark..so it is dirty grey like dusk or dawn…which IS still dark but not dark as in pitch black.(mentioned in the Old & New Testament)
**Then it says that on that same day, a Day only known to The Lord that Christ becomes King of the whole world.(Mentioned in the gospels)
So I ask you again…in light of those facts…
Is this not the 2nd coming?
Y/N?
2besee,
Ask Mike & T8…
I have NOT asked for you to be tiled if you don't give me an answer okay…I was annoyed is all.
Look, every Christian knows that the Day of The Lord when He comes with ALL His saints is the 2nd coming.
You know it, I know it, & 2 billion other Christians know it too.So by you saying you're not sure what it means looks awfully suspicious…like you're dodging the most awaited event by Christians since the beginnings of the church after ascension…
Can you see where I am coming from?
I just want you to admit what I know you know…that it can only be the 2nd coming.
I'm not going to rub your face in it, but I will put forth my case and with New Testament scriptures like you asked…so you will still no doubt be able to disagree with me okay…
Again, I know without doubt in my soul that you know what it means, and I want to see you admit what I know you don't want to admit…that at least is honourable…and I'd never mock someone whose being honourable..
I just know you know what it means..
Devolution,
Yes, of course the Day comes. But I do not believe that Zachariah 14 is THAT Day, as I have shown you from Scripture in my first post.
The Hebrew of Zachariah 14 does not say, BTW, “Angels” or “Saints”. It just says “Holy”….
http://biblos.com/zechariah/14-5.htm
The word used for “Holy” is “qadosh”
qadosh: sacred, holy
Original Word: קָדוֹשׁ
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: qadosh
Phonetic Spelling: (kaw-doshe')
Short Definition: holyhttp://biblesuite.com/hebrew/6918.htm
Which can also apply to men.
So, of course I believe in the day when Jesus returns as is seen in 2nd Peter 3 and Jude. But is it the same day as is seen in Zachariah 14? Not necessarily.
Plus, if Zachariah 14 was meaning what you are saying, then how come Jude does not quote it. How come Jude instead quoted ENOCH when He says that, quote “Behold, the Lord came with his holy myriads, to execute judgment on all…..”
Why ENOCH? Why not Zachariah?
Clearly not the same day.
The “Day” in Zachariah is the time from when Jesus came right up until now, the Heavenly Jerusalem of above.THE Day of the Lord as is mentioned repeatedly by Jesus and the Apostles, the day which will come like a thief in the night – in which the heavens and earth will melt in the fervent heat, as was destroyed by the flood in the day of Noah, so shall it be. This day, is another day, still, soon, to come.
Devolution.
Quote Zech 13:6-7. And if one asks him, `What are these wounds on your back?' he will say, `The wounds I received in the house of my friends.'” “Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, against the man who stands next to me,” says the LORD of hosts. “Strike the shepherd, that the sheep may be scattered; I will turn my hand against the little ones.
In the whole land, says the LORD, two thirds shall be cut off and perish, and one third shall be left alive. And I will put this third into the fire, and refine them as one refines silver, and test them as gold is tested. They will call on my name, and I will answer them. I will say, `They are my people'; and they will say, `The LORD is my God.'”
This is the first advent of Jesus and an introduction into Zachariah 14.
Zachariah 14 covers all of the time from Jesus right up until today.Quote Zech.14:1-3. Behold, a day of the LORD is coming, when the spoil taken from you will be divided in the midst of you. For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city shall be taken and the houses plundered and the women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then the LORD will go forth and fight against those nations as when he fights on a day of battle.
This is Jerusalem in 70Ad.
Quote Zech 14:4-5. On that day his feet shall stand on the Mount of Olives which lies before Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives shall be split in two from east to west by a very wide valley; so that one half of the Mount shall withdraw northward, and the other half southward. And the valley of my mountains shall be stopped up, for the valley of the mountains shall touch the side of it; and you shall flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzzi'ah king of Judah. Then the LORD your God will come, and all the holy ones with him.
The clue in this being an historical event is the fact that Jesus stood on the mount of Olives many times. And when Jerusalem was afterwards surrounded – every Christian, having heeded Jesus' warning had opportunity to escape and flee.
Quote Zechariah 14:6-7. On that day there shall be neither cold nor frost. And there shall be continuous day (it is known to the LORD), not day and not night, for at evening time there shall be light.
Jesus was the light and in that light there is no darkness at all.
Quote Zechariah 14:8-9 On that day living waters shall flow out from Jerusalem, half of them to the eastern sea and half of them to the western sea; it shall continue in summer as in winter.
Living waters – who, devolution is the living waters? Where did they come from and where did they go? Fulfilled.
Quote Zech 14:9-10 And the LORD will become king over all the earth; on that day the LORD will be one and his name one.
Exactly! God is now over all of the earth. Those who did not know Him (the nations – the earth), now do.
Quote Zech 14:10-11. The whole land shall be turned into a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem. But Jerusalem shall remain aloft upon its site from the Gate of Benjamin to the place of the former gate, to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Han'anel to the king's wine presses. And it shall be inhabited, for there shall be no more curse; Jerusalem shall dwell in security.
Jerusalem indeed now dwells in security, for it is heavenly!
—————
Fulfilled.
But no! You want to make it all some future date. You want to say that all of that was not enough and still has to come?2besee,Feb. wrote:[/quote]
2besee,Lets try another approach…because I find your answers inadequate & unable to fulfill those verses to the letter.
So let's break the scriptures down starting with these below & work through your answers TOGETHER instead of at each others throats shall we?
Here is the context:
Quote Zech.14:2-3
For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city shall be taken and the houses plundered and the women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then the LORD will go forth and fight against those nations as when he fights on a day of battle.Now there are 3 main points within those verses I wish to address in relation to your answer.
For you said that the above was fulfilled in 70ad.
So lets test your answer by breaking down what is being said…Point 1 of 3….
“For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle”
Now God said He would GATHER ALL THE NATIONS against Jerusalem in this battle.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know, it was only Rome with her Roman legions who attacked Jerusalem!!
So how can Rome be ALL THE NATIONS that attacked Jerusalem??
How do you explain this??
Quote (Devolution @ Feb. 15 2013,21:46) I find your answers inadequate & unable to fulfill those verses to the letter. Devolution, and therein lies the problem. It is the letter that kills, and you are NOT seeing the clear signs of the 'hidden pathway' and are looking for 'the letter to fit' instead.
As to your question,
All Nations = The Romans, composed of all of the nations of the world (according to commentaries).Quote (2besee @ Feb. 15 2013,22:15) Quote (Devolution @ Feb. 15 2013,21:46) I find your answers inadequate & unable to fulfill those verses to the letter. Devolution, and therein lies the problem. It is the letter that kills, and you are NOT seeing the clear signs of the 'hidden pathway' and are looking for 'the letter to fit' instead.
As to your question,
All Nations = The Romans, composed of all of the nations of the world (according to commentaries).
2besee,Rome was not considered all the nations of the world!!
The bible provides EXAMPLES and THEMES for a REASON 2besee.
You can not just go and SUPPLANT those THEMES and REPLACE those EXAMPLES with YOUR OWN THEMES & EXAMPLES when it suits you.Did God call the Babylonian Empire “all the nations”?
NO.
Did God call the Medo Persian Empire “all the nations”?
NO.
Did God call the Grecian Empire “all the nations”?
NO.
THEY all consisted of MANY NATIONS too, just like Rome 2besee.
But God NEVER called them “all the nations”.But now all of a sudden, according to your Amillennialist partners, to fit your doctrine which goes against all previous examples & scriptural commentary, totally DISMANTLING the MANY THEMES God has established for prophetic DISCERNMENT, Rome DOES now indeed mean “all the nations” !!
Are these not the actions of false prophets?
I say they are.
Just like the examples in scripture that maintain the THEME of what a false prophet is, will amillennialists also supplant that meaning?
SAME kettle of fish my friend.
Your Amillennial position totally uproots what God has already laid out.So just declaring “all the nations” means Rome, with no scripture to back you, makes your position NO position, but personal interpretation.
We however DO have scripture that BACKS OUR POSITION and UPHOLDS the THEME God has already laid out.
So unless you come up with scriptural backing & contextual THEMES to support your claim, the burden of proof remains on YOUR shoulders and NOT ours.
So “all the nations” means exactly that, every nation on planet earth will be united against the CITY of Jerusalem in a future attack that has no precedence in history.
Until you come up with the goods, this position is the only position and you have no claim to supplant this position thus we can consider this point 1 of 3 as “settled” & move on to the next point in line.
2besee,
I await your acknowledgment that you have no scriptural backing to your claim of “all the nations” being Rome…please provide scripture or acknowledge you don't have any so we can move on to the next point…
Devo,
I am very busy today, this will take some time to reply to. I usually only go where I go (posting) when I feel too, otherwise I am just answering you with my own mind.
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