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1 John 4:1
Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.1 Thessalonians 5:21
Test everything. Hold on to the good.Hi,
From SS's site,They call this freedom in catholicism.
Forget searching for yourself and trying to follow the Master.“Is a Catholic at Liberty to Selectively Choose Which Catholic Dogmas He Will Abide By?
[Uploaded (revised version) on 7 April 2001]
The late Fr. John A. Hardon, S.J., was one of the leading catechists in the world and one of the most respected Catholic priests; advisor to Popes Paul VI and John Paul II, and catechist of Mother Teresa's Missionaries of Charity (I have a Tribute Page about him now, and I knew him personally), used to frequently say: “to doubt even one received dogma of the Catholic Church is to lose the supernatural virtue of faith.”
He was referring primarily to Catholics, who are bound to accept all the Church's teachings, as a matter of routine obedience and intellectual honesty. With non-Catholics, there is always the matter of how much they know, or don't know, about Church teaching, which reduces culpability significantly. Obviously there are many people who couldn't care less what the Catholic Church teaches. But a Catholic who professes to be obedient (verbally, or indirectly, by membership) to that authority is in a different category.
Many Catholics, unfortunately, adopt a mentality of “pick-and-choose,” with regards to what Catholic teachings they will accept or reject. But Catholics are obliged (by definition) to accept all dogmatic pronouncements of the Church and the entire ordinary magisterium, with not only external but also internal assent. This itself is dogmatic teaching. Whoever denies this, becomes, ipso facto, a “liberal Catholic.” That is the inexorable consequence of taking such a position within the Catholic dogmatic framework. Granted, we all learn more and more as we go along, but in any event, this is the Catholic position.”
Hi,
Those who thought catholicism was only one of the churches think again. In her view salvation is only through catholicism, with rare exceptions, in line with the creed of Athanasius.From SS's site
“SALVATION OUTSIDE THE CHURCHby Fr. William Most
It is a defined doctrine that there is no salvation outside the Church.
Yet, as the Holy Office pointed out in condemning L. Feeney (DS 3866) we
must understand this the way the Church means it, not by private
interpretation.First we find that the Church insists many times over that those who
through no fault of their own do not find the Church, but keep the moral
law with the help of grace, can be saved:#16 says: “For they who without their own fault do not
know of the Gospel of Christ and His Church, but yet seek God with sincere
heart, and try, under the influence of grace, to carry out His will in
practice, known to them through the dictate of conscience, can attain
eternal salvation.” John Paul II in his Encyclical on the Missions in #10
says the same [underline added]: “For such people [those who do not
formally enter the Church, as in LG 16] salvation in Christ is accessible
by virtue of a grace which, while having a mysterious relationship to the
Church, does not make them part of the Church.” We underline the
word “formally” to indicated that there may be something less than formal
membership, which yet suffices for salvation. A similar thought is found in
LG #14 which says “they are fully incorporated” who accept all its
organization. . . . .” We will show presently that there can be a lesser,
or substantial membership, which suffices for salvation.What should we say about a line in LG #8: “This Church, in this world
as a constituted and ordered society, the Catholic Church. .
. even though outside its confines many elements of sanctification and
truth are found which, as gifts proper to the Church of Christ, impel to
Catholic unity.”We must not overlook the words in LG #8 which speak of “this one and
only [] Church of Christ, which we profess in the Creed. . . .”
Similarly the Decree on Religious Liberty in #1 says that” it [this decree]
leaves untouched the traditional Catholic doctrine about the duty of men
and societies to the true religion and the one and only [] Church of
Christ.”So there really is only one true Church. But really, we it seems that
some think that protestant churches are as it were of the
Church of Christ. And they think that follows from the words about
“subsisting in” and the statement that elements of sanctification can be
found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church.This does not mean that there are other legitimate forms of
Christianity. Pope Gregory XVI (DS 2730. Cf. Pius IX, DS 2915 and Leo XIII,
DS 3250) condemned “an evil opinion that souls can attain eternal salvation
just any profession of faith, if their morals follow the right norm.”
So although people who do not formally join can be saved, as LG #16 says,
and #10 also says, they are not saved such a
faith. It is in spite of it.Yet we can account for the words about and about finding
elements of salvation outside. For this we need the help of the Fathers of
the Church. “why are you so against Catholics? Don't we worship the same God? We both know that only through Jesus Christ we can be saved. God knows what is in our hearts. He will judge us accordingly.
Hi Robyn,
I show you what it says about itself and you think I am against the people trapped within?
Why should I even pay attention to what is glorious to men but at best irrelevant to God?No church can save anyone.
Salvation comes through Jesus alone.Surely your primary allegiance is towards God and not a denomination?
If God is not a trinity God do we really worship the same God?You do not need to face judgement Robyn. Those in Christ do not come under judgement but have already passed over from death into life.[Jn 5] There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.[Rom 8] theirs is the first resurrection into the Millenial Kingdom of Jesus where they will be kings and judges with Christ.
Only those outside of the hope of Hebrews 4 face the sheep and goat judgement of God's mercy on those of the world shown in Matt 25, after the second resurrection. You should not be there hoping for mercy but you should ensure your salvation now.
Quote (Robyn † @ Aug. 18 2006,14:42) why are you so against Catholics? Don't we worship the same God? We both know that only through Jesus Christ we can be saved. God knows what is in our hearts. He will judge us accordingly.
Personally I am not against the Catholics just as I am not against the Moslems, or the members of Green Peace.I am against the institutions that institutionalise its members to the point that they became incompetent for the Kingdom. I am against all man made organisations that disguise themselves as the Church that Jesus built and is building. I am against the prison that holds some of God's people inside.
The walls of this prison are the traditions and doctrines of men and all those who are trapped are not able to serve God as he wills them to.
It is the truth that sets people free.
Scripture shows us what is true, so if we go against scripture, then we need to change. Changing scripture to support man-made traditions is vanity. There is no reward in anything that is not true.
Dear Robyn †,
Sis, most of my family are catholics. I love them with all of my heart. Yet, I know the religion they are in is not of God. This religion is responsible for starting the holiday christmas and easter, which are both pagan holidays. This religion has shed more blood in the name of religion then any other religion on the face of the earth. Do you know anything about your church? Read about the inquisitions of the catholic church. Also read about the crusuades that was financed and facillitated by the catholic church. There was a time the catholic church attempted to kill all the jewish people. Did you know that?
Anyway, it is not the people, it is the teachings of the church we do not agree with. We try to educate people so they can see this religion for what it really is. So please don't get upset. It is not like we are personally attacking you. We are concerned for your spiritual welfare.
We love you. We want you to come to know all truth. And that truth comes through God and his Word.
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Aug. 17 2006,23:11) Dear Robyn †, Sis, most of my family are catholics. I love them with all of my heart. Yet, I know the religion they are in is not of God. This religion is responsible for starting the holiday christmas and easter, which are both pagan holidays. This religion has shed more blood in the name of religion then any other religion on the face of the earth. Do you know anything about your church? Read about the inquisitions of the catholic church. Also read about the crusuades that was financed and facillitated by the catholic church. There was a time the catholic church attempted to kill all the jewish people. Did you know that?
Anyway, it is not the people, it is the teachings of the church we do not agree with. We try to educate people so they can see this religion for what it really is. So please don't get upset. It is not like we are personally attacking you. We are concerned for your spiritual welfare.
We love you. We want you to come to know all truth. And that truth comes through God and his Word.
Question:Will anyone be decieved when Jesus comes back? Are all to know the truth about the Roman Universal Church? My parents were Catholic I believe decieved or just relying on others for their salvation. The Catholic church taught that only they could not understand the bible.
Walking around in their colorful costumes with their long robes and the “mystery” mass in a dead language made an all convincing show. I know people who got married in a Catholic church just because “it is so beautiful”.
Today the Lord is gathering His elect through the internet as well as the traditional means. Almost seems that the “rush” is on
Interesting. None of you must think that Catholics can be saved. I'm sure the average Christian might think that some Roman Catholics are saved due to sincerity or to their good works. I'm sure you guys probably don't believe that any Catholics will be saved due to your harsh interputations of the scriptures. Let's look at an example. let's say John 3:3. That talks about if a man be born again that he cannot see the kingdom of heaven. In your eyes…that one scripture alone puts us on a express elevator to hell.
Quote (Robyn † @ Aug. 18 2006,00:16) Interesting. None of you must think that Catholics can be saved. I'm sure the average Christian might think that some Roman Catholics are saved due to sincerity or to their good works. I'm sure you guys probably don't believe that any Catholics will be saved due to your harsh interputations of the scriptures. Let's look at an example. let's say John 3:3. That talks about if a man be born again that he cannot see the kingdom of heaven. In your eyes…that one scripture alone puts us on a express elevator to hell.
Sure Roman Universals can be saved if they come out of her Rev. 18:4.I find this facinating. The Roman Catholic Church is directly responsible for the Bible we have today. My Holy Bible is a little different from yours I bet. You have missing books in Col 2, Heb and a few others. Why is that? Why were these books eliminated from the Holy Bible?
Hi Robyn,
God has used donkeys to do His will too
so you are not proving she is who she claims to be
“the only true Church”
He fruit is not good.
“Come out of her My People ..”Quote (Robyn † @ Aug. 18 2006,00:16) Interesting. None of you must think that Catholics can be saved. I'm sure the average Christian might think that some Roman Catholics are saved due to sincerity or to their good works. I'm sure you guys probably don't believe that any Catholics will be saved due to your harsh interputations of the scriptures. Let's look at an example. let's say John 3:3. That talks about if a man be born again that he cannot see the kingdom of heaven. In your eyes…that one scripture alone puts us on a express elevator to hell.
Dear Robyn,I am not sure what you mean by your question about John 3:3. Can you be more clear?
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Aug. 18 2006,01:02) Dear Robyn, I am not sure what you mean by your question about John 3:3. Can you be more clear?
Well..since we are not properly baptised as was pointed out before….and one must be baptised to be saved…Oneway ticket down.Can anyone answer my question about the missing books in the Holy Bible and explain to me why they where removed it it is the word of God?
A friend of mine met two mormons as they were walking along. (I've met and talked with mormons while they and I were in our ministry, but it's not myself I speak of.)
And that friend of mine got to talking with them. It seems one of them was from the U.S. and one was from Canada. They didn't really know each other and had just met that day, to go out and preach their message.
My friend asked the one from the U.S. if Canada and the U.S. went to war, would he go to war? Would he kill his friend, who is a fellow Mormon?
His answer, to the suprise of the other mormon, who was somewhat in shock, was “Yes.” We have to obey the superior authorities, the governments, he stated. Needless to say, his friend was somewhat taken aback by the American's comments. In what sense were these two brothers? They were working together, apparently with a common goal. Where they in any way united?Similarly, speaking of Catholics, The Belgian newspaper “La Dernière Heure” relates that during the war Roman Catholic Cardinal Amette of Paris said this to the French soldiers:
“My brothers, comrades of the French army and of their glorious allies, the Almighty God is on our side. . . . God is near to our brave soldiers in battle, he gives them strength and fortifies them against the enemy. . . . God will give us the victory.”
At the same time, on the other side, the Catholic archbishop of Cologne, Germany, said to German soldiers:
“God is with us in this fight for righteousness . . . We command you in the name of God, to fight to the last drop of your blood for the honor and glory of the country. . . . God knows that we are on the side of righteousness and he will give us the victory.” (La Dernière Heure, January 7, 1967)So this I ask: Who's side was God on? The Cardinal's or the Archbishop's?
As the New York Times observed: “In the past local Catholic hierarchies almost always supported the wars of their nations, blessing troops and offering prayers for victory, while another group of [Catholic] bishops on the other side publicly prayed for the opposite outcome.” (New York Times, December 29, 1966, p. 3.)
Are the Catholics on God's side? Or the side of whatever country they happen to live in? Are they truly united, as Christ's brothers are to be?
david
Robyn,
This is how one is saved. It has nothing to do with baptisms of water or the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
What it has to do is recognizing that we are all guilty of sin. And because of that, we are all going to die unless we are forgiven of our sins. We cannot live a life in the flesh without sinning. That is why God sent his Son to earth in the flesh. Jesus came to do what we cannot. He came to live a life without sin and to taste death for every man so that we won't have to. And by doing so, he defeated death. So that all who believe in him will never die. All we have to do is ask the Lord to forgive us for our sins and ask Jesus to come into our hearts and we will be saved. Once saved, one needs to be baptized by water and the Holy Ghost.
Quote (Robyn † @ Aug. 18 2006,01:12) Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Aug. 18 2006,01:02) Dear Robyn, I am not sure what you mean by your question about John 3:3. Can you be more clear?
Well..since we are not properly baptised as was pointed out before….and one must be baptised to be saved…Oneway ticket down.Can anyone answer my question about the missing books in the Holy Bible and explain to me why they where removed it it is the word of God?
Hi Robyn,
Jn 3.34-36
” 34″For He whom God has (A)sent speaks the words of God; (B)for He gives the Spirit without measure.35″ÂThe Father loves the Son and (D)has given all things into His hand.
36″He who (E)believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who (F)does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” ]
God has sent his beloved only begotten Son to rescue those who will listen.
Does that include You?Robyn †.
If you claim to be a Roman Catholic and you back that denomination, then be prepared to also take upon yourself her judgements.
Do you condone the deaths, abuse, and refusing the people the scriptures, that the Roman Catholic church has comitted over the centuries?
You are either for her or against her. If you are for her, you also share in her sins and judgement too.
It's your choice, but at least now you know what you are choosing.
Personally I would rather keep away from the sins of men and be found in Christ Jesus, for in him there is no condemnation.
Romans 8:1
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,Revelation 18:1
18:1 After this I saw another angel coming down from heaven. He had great authority, and the earth was illuminated by his splendour.
2 With a mighty voice he shouted:“Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great! She has become a home for demons and a haunt for every evil spirit, a haunt for every unclean and detestable bird.
3 For all the nations have drunk the maddening wine of her adulteries. The kings of the earth committed adultery with her, and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries.”4 Then I heard another voice from heaven say:
“Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues;
5 for her sins are piled up to heaven, and God has remembered her crimes.Quote (Robyn † @ Aug. 18 2006,00:16) Interesting. None of you must think that Catholics can be saved. I'm sure the average Christian might think that some Roman Catholics are saved due to sincerity or to their good works. I'm sure you guys probably don't believe that any Catholics will be saved due to your harsh interputations of the scriptures. Let's look at an example. let's say John 3:3. That talks about if a man be born again that he cannot see the kingdom of heaven. In your eyes…that one scripture alone puts us on a express elevator to hell.
Hi Robyn,
We know from scripture that God wants everyone to be saved. We also know that even in the Whore of Babylon there are people who belong to God or He would not tell His people to come out of her.
If you are asking in one can be saved through following catholicism the general answer would be no because self effort, our own works, receiving communion and attending masses and obedience to the catholic rulers are against the ways of God.
But we only know and preach the Way of Jesus and we cannot grasp the fullness of the mercy of God, which will be given to many in the second resurrection, who have given but a cup of water to men who belong to Christ.Jesus says
“Come follow me”He loved the scriptures.
He proved who he was and what his mission was about from the scriptures.
He said we should worship the Father who is God.
He stands at the door and knocks.Can you hear his call?
Quote (t8 @ Aug. 18 2006,05:17) Robyn †. If you claim to be a Roman Catholic and you back that denomination, then be prepared to also take upon yourself her judgements.
Do you condone the deaths, abuse, and refusing the people the scriptures, that the Roman Catholic church has comitted over the centuries?
You are either for her or against her. If you are for her, you also share in her sins and judgement too.
It's your choice, but at least now you know what you are choosing.
Personally I would rather keep away from the sins of men and be found in Christ Jesus, for in him there is no condemnation.
Are you saying that I am personally guilty of the sins of the Holy Roman Catholic Church? That is like saying Catholics are human…you are human..therefore you are damned forever.Let God do the judging. He knows what is in our hearts.
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