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Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Aug. 31 2006,02:13) God is not the catholic church.
That is correct. But God did give this authority to man to establish his Church on earth. This is called the Priesthood. this authority came from Jesus Christ who gave it to Peter our first Pope. This authority has been passed down within the Church.Hi Robyn,
The New Testament mentions a priesthood.
1Peter 2
” 2As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:3If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
4To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light; “
Is this what you mean as it seems to apply to ALL in Christ?
Dear Robyn,
Jesus is the high priest. He is the one who enters into the Holy of Hollies. When a man is born again, it is Jesus who enters into the heart of the man and cleanses the heart of sin with his blood, sanctifying the temple and making it Holy. It is not the catholic priest. It is not the pope. It is Jesus Christ, the High Priest.
I don't know about you Robyn, but it sounds to me like Jesus is the priest. There is no others priests between God and man. Jesus is the only priest who can save through faith in him. Belief in this High Priest leads to eternal life.
Heb. 7:24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.
Hebrews 8 KJV
1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
True H,
The catholic 'priests” offer the mass, which they call the sacrificial death of Christ, every day in the belief that this is pleasing to God. It is based on their anxiety that they must daily plead for mercy knowing in their heart that they are unsaved.The book of Hebrews showed me in may places that these things are not only useless but offensive to God.
Quote (Robyn † @ Sep. 01 2006,17:12) That is correct. But God did give this authority to man to establish his Church on earth. This is called the Priesthood. this authority came from Jesus Christ who gave it to Peter our first Pope. This authority has been passed down within the Church. Truth or Tradition?
So you have been taught Robyn †.In other parts of the world they get taught that Mohammed is the prophet and in reincarnation. Some people even believe that the crocodile is God.
What you say means nothing if it goes against scripture and your statements wouldn't sway anyone who is serious about the truth, just as they wouldn't be swayed if someone said Reverend Moon is the messiah.
What would you say if someone told you God appointed Reverend Moon as the messiah? Would you take that seriously? Well what you say sounds just like that to me.
Why should anyone serious about the truth listen to your general ramblings about the Pope.
We live in a world with multitudes of those who we could follow:
Reverend Moon
The Pope
Mohammed
Maharishi Yogi
Yogi BearRobyn † you should follow Jesus Christ and not any man.
How do we know what Jesus taught and instituted?
It is in the bible Robyn †.
Jesus always supported what he did with scripture and he never contradicted it.
In fact that is how we know that he was/is the messiah. He fulfilled all scripture pertaining to the Messiah.What you say Robyn † is not in the bible and is not supported by Jesus Christ. Therefore you are deceived just as those who follow after other prophets who have started their OWN religions. You are following man.
There are a lot of drunk people in the world. They are drunk on the wine of Babylon.
Why should anyone listen to the ramblings of a drunkard?
This particular forum is called Truth or Tradition?
The Roman Catholic Church is not the truth, it is really about tradition which you admit to following. That is your choice, but no one serious for God is going to follow you or tradtionan are they?
Quote (t8 @ Aug. 31 2006,23:03) The Roman Catholic Church is not the truth, it is really about tradition which you admit to following.
Not the Truth? The RCC teaches that one must have faith in Jesus Christ and his teachings in order to be saved. The RCC teaches that God is the creater or heaven and earth. The RCC teaches that be must be good to others and share the gospel of Jesus Christ.What is false about that?
Quote (Robyn † @ Aug. 31 2006,23:43) Quote (t8 @ Aug. 31 2006,23:03) The Roman Catholic Church is not the truth, it is really about tradition which you admit to following.
Not the Truth? The RCC teaches that one must have faith in Jesus Christ and his teachings in order to be saved. The RCC teaches that God is the creater or heaven and earth. The RCC teaches that be must be good to others and share the gospel of Jesus Christ.What is false about that?
Hi Robyn,
Nothing false there.
All true though true faith involves action and that includes obedience to the command of Jesus.Jn 3
” 1There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:2The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.”
But none of that information you have been given saves you.
Jesus came to save you from the wrath of God.Jn 3
” 35The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”
So such information that your church gives you should surely include instructions about salvation or they are just tickling your ears.
To Robyn †,
Quote (Robyn † @ Sep. 01 2006,18:43) The RCC teaches that one must have faith in Jesus Christ and his teachings in order to be saved. The RCC teaches that God is the creater or heaven and earth. The RCC teaches that be must be good to others and share the gospel of Jesus Christ. What is false about that?
Alright. If you truly believe this, then you will have no problem with comparing the teachings of the Catholic Church and Jesus Christ will you?And what will you do if Catholic teachings and doctrines contradict the teachings of Jesus Christ?
Will you follow the Roman Catholic Church or that which Christ taught?
Quote (t8 @ Sep. 01 2006,07:16) To Robyn †, Quote (Robyn † @ Sep. 01 2006,18:43) The RCC teaches that one must have faith in Jesus Christ and his teachings in order to be saved. The RCC teaches that God is the creater or heaven and earth. The RCC teaches that be must be good to others and share the gospel of Jesus Christ. What is false about that?
Alright. If you truly believe this, then you will have no problem with comparing the teachings of the Catholic Church and Jesus Christ will you?And what will you do if Catholic teachings and doctrines contradict the teachings of Jesus Christ?
Will you follow the Roman Catholic Church or that which Christ taught?
Okay…let's think this out a little bit. Tell me if these statements are true?1. God is the Alpha and Omega. The beginning and the end. True or False?
2. God knows all. God knows the past, present and future. True or False?
If you feel that both of the above statements are true. Then why would God being Jesus Christ give his authority to act in Gods name to the Holy Roman Catholic Church if he knew it would fail? Simple logic leads you to the truth. I think you guys over think things..thus preventing you from seeing the simple truth.
Simple truth is this.
1. God is the Father of us all. He created us and the universe we live in.
2. Jesus is the savior of mankind. We must obey Gods commandments and have faith in our Lord Jesus Christ in order to go to heaven and be with our Heavenly Father.
That's it. That is what it takes for our salvation. All this other complications that all of you add does nothing for ones salvation. It might even hinder ones salvation to argue about God.
Hi Robyn,
You say
“f you feel that both of the above statements are true. Then why would God being Jesus Christ give his authority to act in Gods name to the Holy Roman Catholic Church if he knew it would fail? Simple logic leads you to the truth. I think you guys over think things..thus preventing you from seeing the simple truth”
When did the RCC become God's Church?
Is Jesus no longer the head of his body on earth?
Does the palace in Rome reflect what Jesus came to do?
Is God the Father of all now so we do not need to be born again?
Does obeying the Commandments given to the Jews save the gentiles?
Are you perfect in your obedience to those commandments as failing one fails the lot?
Are you ready to met the Master alone?Why follow blind men into the pit?
Nick: When did the RCC become God's Church?
When God gave the Priesthood and the authority to man to act in his name to Peter, pur first Pope.Nick: Is Jesus no longer the head of his body on earth?
What makes you say that. The Pope is not God. The pope is just the leader of the RCC.Nick: Does the palace in Rome reflect what Jesus came to do?
The Vatican teaches the our Lord Jesus Christ is our Savior and only through him you can be saved. What is wrong with that?Nick: Is God the Father of all now so we do not need to be born again?
Of course God is our father. He created us. You don't think God is our father? What does that have to do with the original sin?Nick: Does obeying the Commandments given to the Jews save the gentiles?
Are not the Jews created by God? We are all human and chrildren of our Heavenly Father. You don't think the scriptures in the Old Testament apply to you or is the word of God?Nick: Are you perfect in your obedience to those commandments as failing one fails the lot?
Are you ready to met the Master alone?
No…I am human and not perfect.Nick: Why follow blind men into the pit?
Who is really blind?Quote (Robyn † @ Sep. 02 2006,11:49) Simple truth is this. 1. God is the Father of us all. He created us and the universe we live in.
2. Jesus is the savior of mankind. We must obey Gods commandments and have faith in our Lord Jesus Christ in order to go to heaven and be with our Heavenly Father.
That's it. That is what it takes for our salvation. All this other complications that all of you add does nothing for ones salvation. It might even hinder ones salvation to argue about God.
That's not true what you say.
The Roman Catholic Faith and scripture are unreconcilable.Read what the Catholic faith is and if you agree that the following statement of the Roman Catholic Faith is the true faith, then we can compare the following with scripture.
But if it contradicts scripture, then what will you choose?
- The truth of scripture
- The traditions of the Roman Catholic Church.
Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic Faith. Which Faith except everyone do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the Catholic Faith is this, that we worship one God in Trinity and Trinity in Unity. Neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son and of the Holy Ghost is all One, the Glory Equal, the Majesty Co-Eternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father Uncreate, the Son Uncreate, and the Holy Ghost Uncreate. The Father Incomprehensible, the Son Incomprehensible, and the Holy Ghost Incomprehensible. The Father Eternal, the Son Eternal, and the Holy Ghost Etneral and yet they are not Three Eternals but One Eternal. As also there are not Three Uncreated, nor Three Incomprehensibles, but One Uncreated, and One Uncomprehensible. So likewise the Father is Almighty, the Son Almighty, and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not Three Almighties but One Almighty.
So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not Three Gods, but One God. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not Three Lords but One Lord. For, like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by Himself to be God and Lord, so are we forbidden by the Catholic Religion to say, there be Three Gods or Three Lords. The Father is made of none, neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created, but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father, and of the Son neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
So there is One Father, not Three Fathers; one Son, not Three Sons; One Holy Ghost, not Three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is afore or after Other, None is greater or less than Another, but the whole Three Persons are Co-eternal together, and Co-equal. So that in all things, as is aforesaid, the Unity is Trinity, and the Trinity is Unity is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, must thus think of the Trinity.
Is this your faith?
I await your answer.Hi Robyn †
Quote (Robyn † @ Sep. 02 2006,11:49) Then why would God being Jesus Christ give his authority to act in Gods name to the Holy Roman Catholic Church if he knew it would fail?
Um you mean Jesus setup a church and church government that:- denied people the scriptures
- killed/murdered many people
- taught doctrines that were contrary to what Jesus Christ taught.
- let people pay money so this so-called church would forgive the sins of their loved ones.
Seriously what kind of messiah would set up a church that does all those things and set a human in place as the vicar on earth of our Lord Jesus?
What kind of messiah would setup a church that contradicted his own teachings?
Didn't Jesus say that we would know them by their fruits?
What kind of fruit has the Catholic Church given us over the centuries?You certainly need to wake up Robyn †.
But I suspect that you are quite happy in your slumber.The bible teaches clearly that there would be a great falling away (apostacy). Do you know what it is? If you do, can you explain to me what the apostacy is?
If you do not know, do you think then that it may be possible that you are in it?
Quote (Robyn † @ Sep. 01 2006,16:49) Quote (t8 @ Sep. 01 2006,07:16) To Robyn †, Quote (Robyn † @ Sep. 01 2006,18:43) The RCC teaches that one must have faith in Jesus Christ and his teachings in order to be saved. The RCC teaches that God is the creater or heaven and earth. The RCC teaches that be must be good to others and share the gospel of Jesus Christ. What is false about that?
Alright. If you truly believe this, then you will have no problem with comparing the teachings of the Catholic Church and Jesus Christ will you?And what will you do if Catholic teachings and doctrines contradict the teachings of Jesus Christ?
Will you follow the Roman Catholic Church or that which Christ taught?
Okay…let's think this out a little bit. Tell me if these statements are true?1. God is the Alpha and Omega. The beginning and the end. True or False?
2. God knows all. God knows the past, present and future. True or False?
If you feel that both of the above statements are true. Then why would God being Jesus Christ give his authority to act in Gods name to the Holy Roman Catholic Church if he knew it would fail? Simple logic leads you to the truth. I think you guys over think things..thus preventing you from seeing the simple truth.
Simple truth is this.
1. God is the Father of us all. He created us and the universe we live in.
2. Jesus is the savior of mankind. We must obey Gods commandments and have faith in our Lord Jesus Christ in order to go to heaven and be with our Heavenly Father.
That's it. That is what it takes for our salvation. All this other complications that all of you add does nothing for ones salvation. It might even hinder ones salvation to argue about God.
Dear Robyn,Where did you ever come up with the idea that God gave the catholic church the authority to do the will of God? The church was established long before the catholic church came into being. How can you believe such garbage little sister? What do you think the apostles did? They went and established the church. The catholic church did not come into being a century after the apostles were gone to be with the Lord. There was the church of Rome, but it was not considered the catholic church until the second century A.D. And even then, it was not just Rome, but all churches. They considered themselves universal or one church.
And as it grew in power, many in the third century became suspect of the Church of Rome because of it's political ties it had with the emperor of Rome who was Constantine. Constantine made claims to be christian, but his ruthless actions verified that he only professed to be christian to use the catholic church to win the support of his empire, since many were turning to christianity.
Now it is important to note that he did put a stop to the persucutions that was occuring on christians. This he did do, but his motive was not completely sincere. He did this because it was more beneficial for the empire to not kill them then to kill them since so many were being converted at such an alarming rate. So, if you can't beat them, join them. And that is what he professed he did. He claimed that he had a vision from God and it was this vision that made him a believer in the God of the Chritians.
Constantine supposably was baptized just before his death. Whether he was actually saved, only God really knows for sure.
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Sep. 01 2006,23:17) Dear Robyn, Where did you ever come up with the idea that God gave the catholic church the authority to do the will of God?
God gave the keys to the gospel to the Apostle Peter, our first Pope. The keys to the gospel is the priesthood. The authority to act in Gods name.Hi mercy,
Are you referiring to Matt 16
” 16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
and Jesus said this to all the disciples in Matt 18
” 18Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.19Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
20For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.”
So where does it say anything about a pope?
Peter was laid as a stone of the new temple.
A priest ministers to God on behalf of the people.
We too are stones and priests according to the same man.1Peter 2
” 4To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,5Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.”
Was Peter the “rock” on which the church was built?
Matt. 16:18, JB: “I now say to you: You are Peter and on this rock I will build my Church. And the gates of the underworld can never hold out against it.” (Notice in the context [vss. 13, 20] that the discussion centers on the identity of Jesus.)
Whom did the apostles Peter and Paul understand to be the “rock,” the “cornerstone”?
Acts 4:8-11, JB: “Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, addressed them, ‘Rulers of the people, and elders! . . . it was by the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, the one you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by this name and by no other that this man is able to stand up perfectly healthy, here in your presence, today. This is the stone rejected by you the builders, but which has proved to be the keystone [“cornerstone,” NAB].’”
1 Pet. 2:4-8, JB: “Set yourselves close to him [the Lord Jesus Christ] so that you too . . . may be living stones making a spiritual house. As scripture says: See how I lay in Zion a precious cornerstone that I have chosen and the man who rests his trust on it will not be disappointed. That means that for you who are believers, it is precious; but for unbelievers, the stone rejected by the builders has proved to be the keystone, a stone to stumble over, a rock to bring men down.”
Eph. 2:20, JB: “You are part of a building that has the apostles and prophets for its foundations, and Christ Jesus himself for its main cornerstone.”
What was the belief of Augustine (who was viewed as a saint by the Catholic Church)?
“In this same period of my priesthood, I also wrote a book against a letter of Donatus . . . In a passage in this book, I said about the Apostle Peter: ‘On him as on a rock the Church was built.’ . . . But I know that very frequently at a later time, I so explained what the Lord said: ‘Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church,’ that it be understood as built upon Him whom Peter confessed saying: ‘Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God,’ and so Peter, called after this rock, represented the person of the Church which is built upon this rock, and has received ‘the keys of the kingdom of heaven.’ For, ‘Thou art Peter’ and not ‘Thou art the rock’ was said to him. But ‘the rock was Christ,’ in confessing whom as also the whole Church confesses, Simon was called Peter.”—The Fathers of the Church—Saint Augustine, the Retractations (Washington, D.C.; 1968), translated by Mary I. Bogan, Book I, p. 90.
Did the other apostles view Peter as having primacy among them?
Luke 22:24-26, JB: “A dispute arose also between them [the apostles] about which should be reckoned the greatest, but he said to them, ‘Among pagans it is the kings who lord it over them, and those who have authority over them are given the title Benefactor. This must not happen with you.’” (If Peter were the “rock,” would there have been any question as to which one of them “should be reckoned the greatest”?)
Since Jesus Christ, the head of the congregation, is alive, does he need successors?
Heb. 7:23-25, JB: “Then there used to be a great number of those other priests [in Israel], because death put an end to each one of them; but this one [Jesus Christ], because he remains for ever, can never lose his priesthood. It follows, then, that his power to save is utterly certain, since he is living for ever to intercede for all who come to God through him.”
Rom. 6:9, JB: “Christ, as we know, having been raised from the dead will never die again.”
Eph. 5:23, JB: “Christ is head of the Church.”
What were “the keys” entrusted to Peter?
Matt. 16:19, JB: “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven: whatever you bind on earth shall be considered bound in heaven; whatever you loose on earth shall be considered loosed in heaven.”
In Revelation, Jesus referred to a symbolic key used by himself to open up privileges and opportunities to humans
Rev. 3:7, 8, JB: “Here is the message of the holy and faithful one who has the key of David, so that when he opens, nobody can close, and when he closes, nobody can open: . . . I have opened in front of you a door that nobody will be able to close.”
Peter used “keys” entrusted to him to open up (to Jews, Samaritans, Gentiles) the opportunity to receive God’s spirit with a view to their entering the heavenly Kingdom
Acts 2:14-39, JB: “Peter stood up with the Eleven and addressed them in a loud voice: ‘Men of Judaea, and all you who live in Jerusalem . . . God has made this Jesus whom you crucified both Lord and Christ.’ Hearing this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the apostles, ‘What must we do, brothers?’ ‘You must repent,’ Peter answered ‘and every one of you must be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise that was made is for you and your children, and for all those who are far away, for all those whom the Lord our God will call to himself.’”
Acts 8:14-17, JB: “When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, and they went down there, and prayed for the Samaritans to receive the Holy Spirit, for as yet he had not come down on any of them: they had only been baptised in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.” (Verse 20 indicates that Peter was the one taking the lead on this occasion.)
Acts 10:24-48, JB: “They reached Caesarea the following day, and Cornelius [an uncircumcised Gentile] was waiting for them. . . . Peter addressed them . . . While Peter was still speaking the Holy Spirit came down on all the listeners.”
Did heaven wait on Peter to make decisions and then follow his lead?
Acts 2:4, 14, JB: “They were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak foreign languages as the Spirit gave them the gift of speech. . . . Then [after Christ, the head of the congregation, had stirred them up by means of the holy spirit] Peter stood up with the Eleven and addressed them.” (See verse 33.)
Acts 10:19, 20, JB: “The Spirit had to tell him [Peter], ‘Some men have come to see you. Hurry down, and do not hesitate about going back with them [to the home of the Gentile Cornelius]; it was I who told them to come.’”
Compare Matthew 18:18, 19.
Is Peter the judge as to who is worthy to enter the Kingdom?
2 Tim. 4:1, JB: “Christ Jesus . . . is to be judge of the living and the dead.”
2 Tim. 4:8, JB: “All there is to come now is the crown of righteousness reserved for me, which the Lord [Jesus Christ], the righteous judge, will give to me on that Day; and not only to me but to all those who have longed for his Appearing.”
Was Peter in Rome?
Rome is referred to in nine verses of the Holy Scriptures; none of these say that Peter was there. First Peter 5:13 shows that he was in Babylon. Was this a cryptic reference to Rome? His being in Babylon was consistent with his assignment to preach to the Jews (as indicated at Galatians 2:9), since there was a large Jewish population in Babylon. The Encyclopaedia Judaica (Jerusalem, 1971, Vol. 15, col. 755), when discussing production of the Babylonian Talmud, refers to Judaism’s “great academies of Babylon” during the Common Era.
Has an unbroken line of successors been traced from Peter to modern-day popes?
Jesuit John McKenzie, when professor of theology at Notre Dame, wrote: “Historical evidence does not exist for the entire chain of succession of church authority.”—The Roman Catholic Church (New York, 1969), p. 4.
The New Catholic Encyclopedia admits: “ . . . the scarcity of documents leaves much that is obscure about the early development of the episcopate . . . ”—(1967), Vol. I, p. 696.
Claims of divine appointment mean nothing if those who make them are not obedient to God and Christ
Matt. 7:21-23, JB: “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the person who does the will of my Father in heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”
See also Jeremiah 7:9-15.
Have the claimed successors to the apostles adhered to the teachings and practices of Jesus Christ and his apostles?
A Catholic Dictionary states: “The Roman Church is Apostolic, because her doctrine is the faith once revealed to the Apostles, which faith she guards and explains, without adding to it or taking from it.” (London, 1957, W. E. Addis and T. Arnold, p. 176) Do the facts agree?
Identity of God
“The Trinity is the term employed to signify the central doctrine of the Christian religion.”—The Catholic Encyclopedia (1912), Vol. XV, p. 47.
“Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in the New Testament . . . The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies.”—The New Encyclopædia Britannica (1976), Micropædia, Vol. X, p. 126.
“There is the recognition on the part of exegetes and Biblical theologians, including a constantly growing number of Roman Catholics, that one should not speak of Trinitarianism in the New Testament without serious qualification. There is also the closely parallel recognition on the part of historians of dogma and systematic theologians that when one does speak of an unqualified Trinitarianism, one has moved from the period of Christian origins to, say, the last quadrant of the 4th century.”—New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Vol. XIV, p. 295.
Celibacy of the clergy
Pope Paul VI, in his encyclical Sacerdotalis Caelibatus (Priestly Celibacy, 1967), endorsed celibacy as a requirement for the clergy, but he admitted that “the New Testament which preserves the teaching of Christ and the Apostles . . . does not openly demand celibacy of sacred ministers . . . Jesus Himself did not make it a prerequisite in His choice of the Twelve, nor did the Apostles for those who presided over the first Christian communities.”—The Papal Encyclicals 1958-1981 (Falls Church, Va.; 1981), p. 204.
1 Cor. 9:5, NAB: “Do we not have the right to marry a believing woman like the rest of the apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas?” (“Cephas” is an Aramaic name given to Peter; see John 1:42. See also Mark 1:29-31, where reference is made to the mother-in-law of Simon, or Peter.)
1 Tim. 3:2, Dy: “It behoveth, therefore, a bishop to be . . . the husband of one wife [“married only once,” NAB].”
Before the Christian era, Buddhism required its priests and monks to be celibate. (History of Sacerdotal Celibacy in the Christian Church, London, 1932, fourth ed., revised, Henry C. Lea, p. 6) Even earlier, the higher orders of the Babylonian priesthood were required to practice celibacy, according to The Two Babylons by A. Hislop.—(New York, 1943), p. 219.
1 Tim. 4:1-3, JB: “The Spirit has explicitly said that during the last times there will be some who will desert the faith and choose to listen to deceitful spirits and doctrines that come from the devils; . . . they will say marriage is forbidden.”
Separateness from the world
Pope Paul VI, when addressing the United Nations in 1965, said: “The peoples of the earth turn to the United Nations as the last hope of concord and peace; We presume to present here, together with Our own, their tribute of honor and of hope.”—The Pope’s Visit (New York, 1965), Time-Life Special Report, p. 26.
John 15:19, JB: “[Jesus Christ said:] If you belonged to the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you do not belong to the world, because my choice withdrew you from the world, therefore the world hates you.”
Jas. 4:4, JB: “Don’t you realise that making the world your friend is making God your enemy?”
Resorting to weapons of war
Catholic historian E. I. Watkin writes: “Painful as the admission must be, we cannot in the interest of a false edification or dishonest loyalty deny or ignore the historical fact that Bishops have consistently supported all wars waged by the government of their country. I do not know in fact of a single instance in which a national hierarchy has condemned as unjust any war . . . Whatever the official theory, in practice ‘my country always right’ has been the maxim followed in wartime by Catholic Bishops.”—Morals and Missiles (London, 1959), edited by Charles S. Thompson, pp. 57, 58.
Matt. 26:52, JB: “Jesus then said, ‘Put your sword back, for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.’”
1 John 3:10-12, JB: “In this way we distinguish the children of God from the children of the devil: anybody . . . not loving his brother is no child of God’s. . . . We are to love one another; not to be like Cain, who belonged to the Evil One and cut his brother’s throat.”
In the light of the foregoing, have those who claim to be successors to the apostles really taught and practiced what Christ and his apostles did?
david
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