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Quote (Robyn † @ Aug. 26 2006,23:24) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 26 2006,23:21) Hi Robyn,
Seek the Spirit and the Spirit of God will show you all these answers and more.
Well Nick…since you have the Spirit of God more than me….you can tell me. Come on…don't be shy.
Hi Robyn,
Would you not seek all the gifts and graces God has to offer?
We cannot get very far in our own strength can we?Quote (Robyn † @ Aug. 27 2006,16:08) Pride? There is more to God than just the scriptures. You focus all of God on the scriptures that were written by man and inspired by God. The scriptures are to guide and helps us. The Scriptures do not give us salvation. You have blinders on and only can see the Holy Bible before you and nothing else. As you know that due to the error of man…we have a ton of bibles running around out there. Tell me….which Bible is the “True” Bible and the word of God?
Of course there is more to God than scriptures, but the point is that God doesn't go against his own truth/scripture. Man does.Well said t8. I could not have said it better myself. And that includes corrupting God's Word. Sorry, had to get my jab in. LOL. For Nick.:D
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Aug. 26 2006,23:50) Dear Robyn, what bible do you think is the Word of God? I believe the Authorized King James bible is the infallible Word of God. And I would put it against any bible, catholic or not when it comes to the gospel of Christ.
Which KJV? I think they have 5 editions. These editions of the King James Version were produced in 1611, 1629, 1638, 1762, and 1769.What about the NKJV?
Quote (t8 @ Aug. 27 2006,00:16) Of course there is more to God than scriptures, but the point is that God doesn't go against his own truth/scripture. Man does.
So t8…which bible is the “true” bible? What bibles did man go against?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 27 2006,04:56) Hi Robyn,
Can you enlighten us as to your view?
My view to what? The RCC or the Holy Bible and the many translations?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 27 2006,05:20) Hi Robyn,
Anything you like.
Well..the problem is that I have been give instruction all my life about the RCC. Because of my indoctrination…I really don't know much about other religions. Believe it or not the Catholic Church in my family is really important. It has been with our family forever. I'm actually an Irish girl that was born in Ireland and came to the USA. I probably sound like a broken record in here. I seem to keep repeating the things that were said to me. I never really questioned anything that was taught. I just accepted it for fact. It is hard to describe.Hi Robyn,
Take your time and let God show you what He wants.
Ask Him what His will is for you and ask Him for wisdom each day.
He wil light the path for you.
He loves you.Hi Robyn,
The bible is a love letter from God.
Man has a problem and is cut off from Him and destined for destruction, though most are blithely unaware of the problem.He gave the Israelites the Law to help them restore their awareness of their sin problem and to encourage them to seek His ways. It partially failed as He knew it would and so His plan B went into effect. Now he invites everyone to come on board the new Ark which is His Son.
He does not want to lose anyone of his creation, so he asked His beloved Son to come and save us and His son obeyed. The Son partook completely of our life and completely obeyed the Law. He opened for all who are reborn into him a new restored direct relationship with God.
God has all the power in His hands and owes us nothing and He does place some simple demands in the rescue package He put together. We must all repent and believe in the Son and be born again of water and the Spirit into him. That is all we must do and if we abide in the bible teachings and seek to follow the leading of the Spirit, God will take over and failure is not possible. We inherit eternal life.
I realise this flies in the face of all you have ever heard but only the bible is our true guide and this is my understanding and a thumbnail sketch of the message from God within it.
The doors are still open but will not be forever.
Hi Epistemaniac
Thank you for your reply,
But nowhere does the Catholic Church teach we are justified by works only!
We believe we are Justified by Faith but NOT FAITH ALONE.The Catholic Church teaches salvation is a free gift by the grace of God.
1697 – a catechesis of grace, FOR IT IS BY GRACE THAT WE ARE SAVED and AGAIN IT IS BY GRACE THAT OUR WORKS CAN BEAR FRUIT FOR ETERNAL LIFE;
1722 Such beatitude surpasses the understanding and powers of man. It comes from AN ENTIRELY FREE GIFT of God: whence it is called supernatural, AS IS THE GRACE THAT DISPOSES MAN TO ENTER INTO THE DIVINE JOY.
1817 Hope is the theological virtue by which we desire the kingdom of heaven and eternal life as our happiness, placing our trust in Christ's promises AND RELYING NOT ON OUR OWN STRENGTH, BUT ON THE HELP OF THE GRACE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. “Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful.” “The Holy Spirit . . . he poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, SO THAT WE MIGHT BE JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE AND BECOME HEIRS IN HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE.”1821 We can therefore hope in the glory of heaven promised by God to those who love him and do his will. In every circumstance, each one of us should hope, with the grace of God, to persevere “to the end” and to obtain the joy of heaven, as God's eternal reward FOR THE GOOD WORKS ACCOMPLISHED WITH THE GRACE OF CHRIST. In hope, the Church prays for “all men to be saved.” She longs to be united with Christ, her Bridegroom, in the glory of heaven:
1996 Our JUSTIFICATION COMES FROM THE GRACE OF GOD. GRACE IS FAVOR, THE FREE AND UNDESERVED help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life.
2005 Since it belongs to the supernatural order, GRACE ESCAPES OUR EXPERIENCE and cannot be known except by faith. WE CANNOT THEREFORE RELY ON OUR FEELINGS OR OUR WORKS TO CONCLUDE THAT WE ARE JUSTIFIED AND SAVED. However, according to the Lord's words “Thus you will know them by their fruits”- reflection on God's blessings in our life and in the lives of the saints offers us a guarantee that GRACE IS AT WORK IN US AND SPURS US ON TO AN EVER GREATER FAITH AND AN ATTITUDE OF TRUSTFUL POVERTY.
2784 THE FREE GIFT of adoption requires on our part continual conversion and new life. Praying to our Father should develop in us two fundamental dispositions:
First, the desire to become like him: though created in his image, we are restored to his likeness BY GRACE; AND WE MUST RESPOND TO THIS GRACE.First lets look at common scriptures that are used to teach we are justified by Faith alone.
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith WITHOUT THE DEEDS OF THE LAW.
I do not have a problem with this verse! I believe we are saved “by faith” but “not by faith alone”.
The “deeds of the law” is talking about the ceremonial law i.e. circumcision for Jews this is clearly shown if you keep reading the next couple of verses. Rom 3:29, 30 and is also shown in the first verse of this same chapter (Rom 3:1)
As well as in Rom 2:25-29 which is leading up to chapter 3 and finishing of in Rom 4:9-12.
Rom 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
Rom 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the CIRCUMCISION BY FAITH, and UNCIRCUMCISION THROUGH FAITH.Rom 3:1 WHAT ADVANTAGE THEN HATH THE JEW? or what profit is there of circumcision?
Other common scriptures used to teach faith alone!
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 NOT OF WORKS, LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST.Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we SHOULD walk in them.
Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called UNCIRCUMCISION by that which is called the CIRCUMCISION in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, HAVING NO HOPE, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, AND HATH BROKEN DOWN THE MIDDLE WALL OF PARTITION BETWEEN US;
Jesus broke down the middle wall of partition, THE CEREMONIAL LAW, that made the great feud, and was the badge of the Jews' peculiarity, called the partition-wall by way of allusion to the partition in the temple, WHICH SEPARATED THE COURT OF THE GENTILES FROM THAT INTO WHICH THE JEWS ONLY HAD LIBERTY TO ENTER.
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ORDINANCES; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
So we can clearly see that Eph 2:9 is NOT talking about good works.
Eph 2:10 says that we are created unto good works which God hath before ordained that we SHOULD walk in them. But just because one has faith in Jesus doesn’t mean they will walk in them, we have free will even when we have faith in him.
We can’t say that everyone with faith walks in all the ways which God has before ordained.Confusion occurs by forgetting about the Jews, Paul never condemns works of love but he clearly condemns “deeds of the law” or “works of the law” the works that Jews TRY TO JUSTIFY THEMSELVES WITHOUT JESUS. These ceremonial laws have been done away with and the JEWS can no longer boost. Paul rejects ceremonial works of the law BECAUSE THESE WORKS REJECT JESUS SACRIFICE. Jesus replaces circumcision with baptism and replaces the unblemished lamb sacrifices on the Passover with his perfect and unblemished sacrifice on the Passover, which he now offers to us after the order of Melchizedek in the appearance of bread and wine.
So when Paul stresses that it is without the works of the law we are justified. Paul is condemning the works of ceremonial laws, NEVER WORKS OF LOVE OR GRACE.
Paul agrees with James he acknowledges what is important he says it is faith which worketh by love. James says the same, “it is not by faith only”, saying this he acknowledges it is by faith also, but not without works of love.Gal 5:3 For I testify again to EVERY MAN THAT IS CIRCUMCISED, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
Gal 5:4 CHRIST IS BECOME OF NO EFFECT UNTO YOU, whosoever of you are JUSTIFIED BY THE LAW; YE ARE FALLEN FROM GRACE.Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither CIRCUMCISION availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but FAITH WHICH WORKETH BY LOVE.
Does Paul really believe that we are justified by faith alone!
Yes Paul denounces works of the old law BUT NEVER works of the new law of Love.This is the new law that Paul is talking about!
2Co 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; NOT IN TABLES OF STONE, BUT IN FLESHY TABLES OF THE HEART.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and ENGRAVED IN STONES, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory WAS TO BE DONE AWAY:
Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that LOVETH ANOTHER HATH FULFILLED THE LAW.
Rom 13:10 LOVE WORKETH NO ILL TO HIS NEIGHBOUR: THEREFORE LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW.Rom 9:1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, MY CONSCIENCE ALSO BEARING ME WITNESS IN THE HOLY GHOST,
PAUL SPEAKING by the power of
the Holy SpiritRom 2:5 But according to thy hardness and impenitent heart, thou treasurest up to thyself wrath, against the day of wrath and revelation of the just judgment of God:
Rom 2:6 WHO WILL RENDER TO EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS WORKS.Rom 2:13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God: BUT THE DOERS OF THE LAW SHALL BE JUSTIFIED.
THESE AREN’T WORKS OF THE OLD LAW THEY ARE WORKS OF THE NEW LAW OF LOVE. The old law was written in stone the new law is written in our hearts and our conscience bears witnesses!
With fear and trembling we need to listen to our conscience so we can do Gods work on earth. These are works from the fruits of the spirit not faith alone.
Phi 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, WORK OUT YOUR OWN SALVATION WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING.
Phi 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will AND TO DO OF HIS GOOD PLEASURE.We have to listen to our conscience and it doesn’t matter if we have all the Faith in the world we can not be justified without the fruit of Love.
Paul even says that if we have ALL FAITH, [think about that word]
“ALL FAITH” mean’s not lacking any amount of faith. If you have All FAITH you have TRUE FAITH.1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have ALL [G3956] FAITH, so THAT I COULD REMOVE MOUNTAINS,
AND HAVE NOT CHARITY, I AM NOTHING.G3956 πᾶς pas pas
INCLUDING ALL THE FORMS OF DECLENSION; apparently a primary word; ALL, ANY, EVERY, THE WHOLE: – all (manner of, means) alway (-s), any (one), X daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no (-thing), X THROUGHLY, WHATSOEVER, WHOLE, WHOSOEVER.Why is it that the only times in the entire New Testament that words ALL FAITH or FAITH ONLY are used they are always proved to be seriously lacking.
Jam 2:24 Ye see then how that BY WORKS a man is justified, and not by FAITH ONLY.
“Faith alone” is “faith only” they are written with the same Greek word,
G3440 μόνον monon mon'-on
Neuter of G3441 as adverb; merely: – ALONE, but, ONLY.Scripture rejects the idea of faith only. It does not only reject the idea but it also says it is by WORKS a man is justified. It doesn’t say by works only.
Mat 7:22 MANY WILL SAY TO ME IN THAT DAY, LORD, LORD, HAVE WE NOT PROPHESIED IN THY NAME? and IN THY NAME have CAST OUT DEVILS? and IN THY NAME DONE MANY WONDERFUL WORKS?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.Jesus says that even those that have enough faith to cast out Devils WONT be saved.
Why? Because it’s not by Faith alone its according to our works as well. Not just one fruit.2Co 5:10 FOR WE MUST ALL APPEAR BEFORE THE JUDGMENT SEAT OF CHRIST; that every one may receive the things done in his body, ACCORDING TO THAT HE HATH DONE, WHETHER IT BE GOOD OR BAD.
What does he say to those whose works are lukewarm?
Rev 3:13 HE THAT HATH AN EAR, LET HIM HEAR what the Spirit saith unto the CHURCHES.
Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
Rev 3:15 I KNOW THY WORKS, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then BECAUSE THOU ART LUKEWARM, and neither cold nor hot, I WILL SPUE THEE OUT OF MY MOUTH.Jesus also indicates that these people are from the Church and are in him. But says he will spue them out, NOT BECAUSE OF THERE LACK OF FAITH but because of there lack of WORKS.
These people are the ones that have NOT followed all the paths that God has ordained that they SHOULD follow.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
Its impossible to get around the fact that scripture clearly teaches that we are Justified by works also!
Jam 2:21 Was not Abraham our father JUSTIFIED BY WORKS, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jam 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot JUSTIFIED BY WORKS, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
What does Jesus say about good works!
Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Joh 5:28 MARVEL NOT AT THIS: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have DONE GOOD, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.Jesus has told us not to marvel about good works!.
Again……
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, INHERIT THE KINGDOM prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Mat 25:36 Naked, AND YE CLOTHED ME: I was sick, AND YE VISITED ME: I was in prison, AND YE CAME UNTO ME.These are works and unless we do them no amount of faith will save us. Because we are Justified by the fruits and not just the one fruit of faith.
Rev 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I WILL GIVE UNTO EVERY ONE OF YOU ACCORDING TO YOUR WORKS.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: AND THEY WERE JUDGED EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS.
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, TO GIVE EVERY MAN ACCORDING AS HIS WORK SHALL BE.
Why not say we are justified by faith and works when scripture teaches it over and over and over again?
Why teach something that is explicitly rejected by scripture?
Here is an excellent example of true faith.
Mat 8:7 And Jesus saith unto him, I will come and heal him.
Mat 8:8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: BUT SPEAK THE WORD ONLY, AND MY SERVANT SHALL BE HEALED.Mat 8:10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, VERILY I say unto you, I HAVE NOT FOUND SO GREAT FAITH, NO, NOT IN ISRAEL.
Faith CAN NOT be classed as acts of Love because both Faith and Love are fruits of the spirit they are not one fruit but each is its own fruit from the spirit.
Expressions can be made in many different ways, expressions of love can be made by faithfulness and expressions of love can be made as a sacrifice e.g. risking your life to save someone else’s life. The word sacrifice can have many of its own expressions, not all of them meaning love. These are expressions and only expressions they are not each other, and they are not the meanings of the words themselves. Faith meaning is to have confidence and belief and charity meaning is Love that aids and has kindness.
Faith alone means exactly what it says, that is “Faith alone” we can’t argue that it really means OTHER fruits of the spirit.
We must walk my faith and not by sight,
2Co 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
But let all things be done in charity.
1Co 16:14 Let all your things be done with CHARITY.
Col 3:14 And above all these things put on CHARITY, which is the bond of perfectness.
1Co 13:1 THOUGH I SPEAK WITH THE TONGUES OF MEN AND OF ANGELS, an
d have not CHARITY, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.1Co 13:8 CHARITY never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
The whole problem with the idea of faith only, is not only is it against the language of scripture but people start actually believing it. We can’t escape Jesus judgment with any amount of faith we need works of love as well. I believe people need to know about it, especially when much more is expected of us because we are in Christ.
How do we receive the fruits of grace!
The Word of God comes from Jesus, without it we have NO HOPE.
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having NO HOPE, and WITHOUT GOD IN THE WORLD:
The Word of God that Jesus leaves, becomes our HOPE that is stored up for us in heaven
If we have HOPE on his word we receive the gifts of the Spirit and fruits of the Spirit.Col 1:5 For the HOPE which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
Col 1:6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth FORTH FRUIT, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, AND KNEW THE GRACE of God in truth:There are 9 or 12 fruits of the spirit depending on the Bible translation.
The twelve are Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Benignity, Goodness, Longanimity, Mildness, Faith, Modesty, Continency, and Chastity.Gal 5:22 BUT THE FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT is LOVE, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, FAITH,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: AGAINST SUCH THERE IS NO LAW.Notice hope is not listed as a fruit. Hope is still from grace and comes from the Word of God, by the hope of what Jesus has already done. This is how we receive the fruits of the spirit.
It took me to lose all hope in the world before I could call out in hope to Jesus.
He brought forth his fruit and I now have absolute faith in Jesus who is my Lord and Saviour!We can’t even truly say Jesus is the Lord, we need the Holy Spirit. This is why the grace of hope is first.
1Co 12:3 Wherefore I GIVE YOU TO UNDERSTAND, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that NO MAN can say that JESUS IS THE LORD, but by the Holy Ghost.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore BY THEIR FRUITS ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 NOT EVERY ONE THAT SAITH UNTO ME, LORD, LORD, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.It is by our Fruits not the one fruit of faith which is Faith Alone. We need to include the greatest fruit of the spirit.
1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; BUT THE GREATEST of these IS CHARITY [LOVE].
I nearly left the Catholic Church because of this false teaching of Faith Alone!
I was broken and knowing that I had to give up everything I held so dare I prayed that if the Lord wanted me to remain a Catholic, could he reveal how we are justified by Faith and Works.
He has guided me by the spirit to show me many scriptures that show we are justified by works as well!Grace alone doesn’t = Faith alone. Grace and faith have totally different meanings.
Sorry but scripture clearly teaches the following to be correct.
“If any one saith, that BY FAITH ALONE the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema.” Sixth Session CANON IX
I am saved by Jesus Grace alone not my faith alone.
Sorry this is so long….
Blessings in the name of Jesus!
Hi SS,
You quote
“1821 We can therefore hope in the glory of heaven promised by God to those who love him and do his will. In every circumstance, each one of us should hope, with the grace of God, to persevere “to the end” and to obtain the joy of heaven, as God's eternal reward FOR THE GOOD WORKS ACCOMPLISHED WITH THE GRACE OF CHRIST. In hope, the Church prays for “all men to be saved.” She longs to be united with Christ, her Bridegroom, in the glory of heaven:”Fine words but empty ones.
Does this apply to all men?
Does it apply just to catholics?
Or does it apply
to them at all?To enter the kingdom you must repent, believe and be reborn by water and the Spirit, and catholicism does not teach such entry into the kingdom.
All the letters of Paul are written not to those who are as yet outside of the kingdom but those who ahe entered in.
Is your only hope to pass muster in the judgement of the sheep and goats?
Surely not.
It is the judgement of the world, those outside of the way of Christ. Salvation is Christ is a gift and not according to works. Works in Christ follow but do not save us as we cannot improve on the gift of God.
The Judgement shown in Matt 25 is a judgement of works, and only the works done to the children of God. The children of God do not come under judgement but have already passed from death to life. Indeed there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus so that is the place to be, not lined up hopefully with the world 1000yrs later after the second resurrection.Quote (Robyn † @ Aug. 27 2006,23:36) Quote (t8 @ Aug. 27 2006,00:16) Of course there is more to God than scriptures, but the point is that God doesn't go against his own truth/scripture. Man does.
So t8…which bible is the “true” bible? What bibles did man go against?
Hi Robyn †.I do not think that any one bible is the right one to the expense of the others. Sure some may be more accurate while others may be downright shoddy, but I think that they most are clear enough to decipher the message.
I do encourage anyone who wishes to study scripture to use more than 1 translation and to also look up the Greek or Hebrew to see what the words mean too.
Also the opinion about the KJV being the perfect translation, doesn't stack up in my opinion. (I know thisisn't your opinion). In fact I think it is not that good a translation for a number of reasons. One of the reasons is not the KJV fault, and that is the English is somewhat out of date and can be a little harder to read as well as some of the words have changed meaning.
I also wouldn't confine inspired books to the bible only. I think there are other inspired books outside the bible, but I also think that todays bible contains enough books to enable any Christian to know what the faith is.
Quote (Robyn † @ Aug. 28 2006,00:43) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 27 2006,05:20) Hi Robyn,
Anything you like.
Well..the problem is that I have been give instruction all my life about the RCC. Because of my indoctrination…I really don't know much about other religions. Believe it or not the Catholic Church in my family is really important. It has been with our family forever. I'm actually an Irish girl that was born in Ireland and came to the USA. I probably sound like a broken record in here. I seem to keep repeating the things that were said to me. I never really questioned anything that was taught. I just accepted it for fact. It is hard to describe.
Hi Robyn †.My mother was Irish and I lived in Dublin when I was a teenager.
My mother was also a Catholic and she had a precious faith in God. She didn't actually go to Church but it was all she knew in the sense that all her instructions were from that Church.
However the beauty of her faith was not given to her by that Church (nor any Church), it was just that she had a beautiful heart. Her knowledge of God was very limited and I was an athiest when she was alive, but she never condemned me, rather she kept her faith to herself.
I remember the conflict between Catholic and Protestant In Ireland and to me the division was very stupid and it reinforced my un-belief in a God.
However later in life I had a dramatic conversion, but realised earlier on that going to Church and belonging to a denomination was more about tradition than true faith.
In the early part of my walk with Christ, I followed man by doing what they told me to do. “You must go to Church every Sunday”, “you must tithe”…
At one stage I nearly gave up the faith altogether as the system had completely trapped me and I felt that I had a better life when I was in the world. Eventually I came to my senses and realised that I couldn't blame God for the boredom I felt. I left the denomination I attended and my faith returned stronger than ever. From that day on, I was free to go to a Church if I wanted, but I didn't have to. My faith was in God and if I loved him, I would also love those who belong to him and I would want to be with them and fellowship with them anyway. It's just that it didn't have to be a denomination.
Anyway, I vowed to never make the mistake of swapping out faith in God for faith in a system that wasn't of God and I have realised that pure faith in God will keep me on the path.
No system is good enough to replace the leading of God's spirit. I learned that from personal experience and scripture, and that truth has never left me from that time.
HI Robyn,
My roots are also almost 100% Irish, the name coming from Derry in Ireland though it would be about seven generations back. Being brought up as one of 13 in a very traditional catholic family, all the rest of whom still remain catholic, we lived the culture fully.
Masses, Benediction, Eucharist, stations of the cross, saints, vestments and incense, holy days of obligation, singing, stained glass, there was a beauty in the artfoms but it was unfulfilling and empty.
I discovered the bible and started to love it till other aspects of religion faded into true perspective.Hi SS,
You say
“I nearly left the Catholic Church because of this false teaching of Faith Alone!
I was broken and knowing that I had to give up everything I held so dare I prayed that if the Lord wanted me to remain a Catholic, could he reveal how we are justified by Faith and Works.
He has guided me by the spirit to show me many scriptures that show we are justified by works as well!”So you admit you can leave the catholic church and still remain connected with God. So that says you do not believe the catholic church is the body of Christ, on earth as I am sure you would not wish to separate from Christ.
And you are even prepared to discard her for doctrinal falsity, so at the moment you tolerate her as long as she can be shown in your eyes to be faithful to truth?
So if your basic foundation is Christ and his teaching why would you associate at all with this woman of wickedness?
Quote (t8 @ Aug. 27 2006,10:16) Hi Robyn †. My mother was Irish and I lived in Dublin when I was a teenager.
That is so cool. As they say in Ireland….Erin Go Bragh!Nach n-aontaidis leat? Beidh me ann go ceann miosa.
Well I was born in Derry Northern Ireland. If anyone knows that place it is basically a Catholic Ghetto. In Northern Ireland…a Catholic is a second class citizen. I moved to the USA when I was 6 where freedom of religion can be expressed.
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