Catholicism

Participant

Hi,
This subject deserves a thread of it's own.

It is the most influential religious grouping claiming to follow Christ it has huge numbers of followers and international political influence. Her beliefs underly most of the doctrines of other Christian groups.
From her has grown many splinter groups that retain many of her basic beliefs and a move called ecumenism is trying to rejoin them to her.
She claims to be the way of Christ and it is claimed that her leader stands in the place of Christ on earth. His teachings are claimed to be infallible and that of the church are claimed to be equal to that of Christ.
She offers a salvation through ritual and and self perfectionism with the promise of eternal life to those who partake in her sacraments.

August 16, 2006 at 7:47 pm#24487

Participant

Our basic beliefs are pretty much summed up in the Nicene Creed.

We believe in one god,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of Heaven and earth,
of all that is seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from Heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became flesh.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered, died, and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in fulfillment of the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified.
He has spoken through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come.
Amen.

In this prayer it describes God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit, or as we know Them, the Holy Trinity.

The prayer also centralizes our faith in the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Mother of our Lord and ourselves.

The word Catholic means universal. It is the original church that Christ himself established on this earth. All otehr christian religions broke off of our church.

August 16, 2006 at 8:40 pm#24488

Participant

Hi Robyn,
So the Son of God is not really a son at all if he remains one in being with the Father?

August 16, 2006 at 8:44 pm#24489

Participant

Hi Robyn,
Its says in your creed that the Spirit is to be worshiped? Is this so? Is this written in scripture?Did the disciples worship the Spirit, or did the Spirit in them help them worship God?[Rom 8]

August 16, 2006 at 8:49 pm#24490

Participant

Hi Robyn,
So there is one God and that is the Father.
And Jesus is the Son of God and Lord of those in him.
So far so good.

“We believe in one god,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of Heaven and earth,
of all that is seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,”

But then comes confusion
God from God, Light from Light
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, one in being with the Father”

So we know from what you say above he is not the One God but the son of God who comes from God.
Looks like some sort of forked tongue talk here.
So what is the deal about an equal trinity here when there is only One God the Father?

August 16, 2006 at 9:35 pm#24493

kenrch

Participant

Robyn,

The Roman Universal church's doctrine on baptism.

Second Part

This (vii-x) begins with an instruction on baptism, which is to be conferred “in the Name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost” in living water, if it can be had — if not, in cold or even hot water. “The baptized and, if possible, the baptizer, and other persons must fast for one or two days previously. “IF THE WATER IS INSUFFICENT FOR IMMERSION”, it may be poured thrice on the head. This is said by Bigg to show a late date; but it seems a natural concession for hot and dry countries, when baptism was not as yet celebrated exclusively at Easter and Pentecost and in churches, where a columbethra and a supply of water would not be wanting. Fasts are not to be on Monday and Thursday “with the hypocrites” (i.e. the Jews), but on Wednesday and Friday (viii). Nor must Christians pray with the hypocrites, but they shall say the Our Father thrice a day. The text of the prayer is not quite that of St. Matthew, and it is given with the doxology “for Thine is the power and the glory for ever”, whereas all but a few MSS. of St. Matthew have this interpolation with “the kingdom and the power” etc.

The doctrine of the RUC is that you are to be “immersed” unless their is insufficent water. How were you baptized? Were you immersed? If not, why not?

August 16, 2006 at 10:41 pm#24500

Participant

The Roman Catholic Church and all its rules will bind a man up. But the truth will set us free.

I went to the Amazon a few years ago, and many of the tribes in the Colombian section were converted to Catholicism. But I learned that they gave up the Catholic faith and became Christians because they got sick of all the rules and regulations.

I encourage anyone else bound up by this organisation to do the same.

True faith is not based on the Roman Catholic Church or any other denomination. It is based on the son of God and the truths which he taught.

Does anyone really want to find out that they spent their whole life building on top of a false foundation, or that many of our works will not gain any reward?

Our lives are precious beyond understanding. Why waste such a precious opportunity when we have but one life here on earth in which to build works of gold, silver, or precious stones upon the true foundation.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15
11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw,
13 his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work.
14 If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward.
15 If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.

August 16, 2006 at 10:47 pm#24503

Participant

True t8,
But there is, to the natural man, so much apparent comfort in the rules and regulations. Every day has been arranged for you and you just have to obey the church leaders.

But those that follow are more of a problem than the leaders as they have abandoned their own responsibilities and prefer to trust men who say that certain regular observances and ordinances will put them right before God.

The emperor is wearing no clothes folks and only the simple are able to see it brave enough to say so.

August 16, 2006 at 11:03 pm#24504

He’s Coming in the Clouds

Participant

That is true.

Denominations offer false hope. They are not the Church and never have been.

The true Church has one head, Jesus Christ.
Denominations have their own head. The Pope, a pastor, etc.

Jesus Christ is the head of the Church. It is he who builds the true Church. Those who build other churches or in another name, build in vain. Those who build on these works of vanity will one day see their works fail.

Do not waste your life serving the works of man. The only reward you get for serving mens works is the approval of some men.

Some reward that is. Our lives are way too precious to sqaunder away on such fruitless expoits.

Matthew 16 says
“And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it”.

1 Corinthians 12
18 But in fact God has arranged the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be.
…….
27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.
28 And in the Church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.

August 16, 2006 at 11:13 pm#24505

Participant

Dear Robyn †,

Sis. Think about this for a minute and listen carefully. God is not a God of confusion. Why, would he come posing as his own Son, if it was really God the Father?

Don't you see how this is contradicting scripture. By saying the trinity is sound doctrine, it is saying the God is a God of confusion. And since the bible says the God is not a God of confusion, that could only mean one thing.

The trinity doctrine, that was the concept of men, is unsound. Just by standing on this one bible verse debunks the trinity doctrine.

God is not a God of confusion. It says so in his Word. So, if he were to come to earth himself, he would have done so, not posing as his Son, but he would have come as God the Father, Jehovah, Almighty God.

August 17, 2006 at 12:05 am#24511

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 16 2006,21:40)

Hi Robyn,
So the Son of God is not really a son at all if he remains one in being with the Father?

Well..I will do my best to try and explain this again.

First of all we know that God is a mystery in his actions and nature. I can see why you are baffled at the idea that there could be three Persons in one God. I want to be able to help you understand God as best as I can.

I know it can sound confusing when we Catholics talks about the Trinity as being the work of different Persons. Let's try to break it down in steps.

1. God the Father as the Creator and Life-giver.

2. God the Son – or Word – is Jesus, the God-man who came to earth to show us how to live. He suffered and died that all people might find forgiveness and salvation.

3. The Spirit is the Comforter and we get our wisdom and understanding from him. He guides the Church and our Church leaders.

The Holy Trinity is one God with three Persons… Father, Son, and Spirit. We believe that the Father, Son, and Spirit are equal in power and majesty. Basically one person of the Holy Trinity has no more power than the next. They are all equal.

August 17, 2006 at 12:20 am#24512

Participant

I think most people here understand the Trinity doctrine, but they also understand that it is not taught in scripture.

If God is a Trinity then why does scripture break when you replace the word “God” for “Trinity” in the bible.

E.g. John 3:16
“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Becomes: “For THE TRINITY so loved the world that THE TRINITY gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Above we can see that if God were truly a Trinity, then Jesus has to be the son of the Trinity which doesn't make sense does it? If we think God is a Trinity, then the above verse speaks of 4 persons, not 3, (The Trinity, plus the son of the Trinity).

Try some of the 100 verses below and see how the Trinity Doctrine breaks the true meaning of all these verses:

Matthew 27:46
Mark 1:24
Mark 10:18
Mark 15:34
Mark 16:19
Luke 2:52
Luke 6:12
Luke 18:19
John 3:2
John 8:42
John 8:54
John 9:3
John 13:31
John 14:1*
John 17:3
John 20:17
Acts 2:22
Acts 2:32
Acts 2:36
Acts 3:13
Acts 4:10
Acts 5:30
Acts 7:55
Acts 10:36
Acts 10:38
Acts 13:23
Acts 20:21
Romans 1:7
Romans 1:8
Romans 2:16
Romans 3:22
Romans 4:24
Romans 5:1
Romans 5:11
Romans 5:15
Romans 5:17
Romans 6:23
Romans 7:25
Romans 8:34
Romans 10:9
Romans 15:5
Romans 15:6
Romans 16:27
1 Corinthians 1:3
1 Corinthians 1:9
1 Corinthians 1:30
1 Corinthians 8:6
1 Corinthians 15:57
2 Corinthians 1:2
2 Corinthians 1:3
2 Corinthians 11:31
2 Corinthians 13:14
Galatians 1:1
Galatians 1:3
Ephesians 1:2
Ephesians 1:3
Ephesians 1:17
Ephesians 2:6
Ephesians 6:23
Philippians 1:2
Philippians 2:11
Colossians 1:3*
Colossians 3:17
1 Thessalonians 1:1
1 Thessalonians 1:3
1 Thessalonians 3:11
1 Thessalonians 3:13
1 Thessalonians 4:14
1 Thessalonians 5:9
2 Thessalonians 1:1
2 Thessalonians 1:2
2 Thessalonians 1:12
2 Thessalonians 2:16
1 Timothy 1:1
1 Timothy 1:2
1 Timothy 2:5
1 Timothy 5:21
1 Timothy 6:3
2 Timothy 1:1
2 Timothy 1:2
2 Timothy 4:1
Titus 1:4
Titus 2:13
Philemon 1:3
Hebrews 13:20
James 1:1
1 Peter 1:2
1 Peter 2:5
2 Peter 1:1
2 Peter 1:2
1 John 5:1*
1 John 5:20
2 John 1:3
Jude 1:1
Jude 1:4
Jude 1:21
Jude 1:25
Revelation 1:1
Revelation 1:2
Revelation 14:12

August 17, 2006 at 12:26 am#24513

Participant

Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 16 2006,22:35)

Robyn,

The Roman Universal church's doctrine on baptism.

Second Part

The doctrine of the RUC is that you are to be “immersed” unless their is insufficent water. How were you baptized? Were you immersed? If not, why not?

This is what I understand about baptism by infusion (sprinkle)instead of immersion (dunking). Both are acceptable but for some reason some fundamentalist feel that a baptism must be done by immersion or it is not valid and they feel that Catholic baptisms by infusion are invalid.

I was told that the New Testament contained no specific instructions on how to perform a baptism. I think Peter performed infusion baptisms when in Jerusalam in Acts when tehre was not enough water to immerse several thousand people.

The Holy Catholic Church accepts both types of baptism.

August 17, 2006 at 12:35 am#24514

Participant

Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Aug. 17 2006,00:13)

Dear Robyn †,

Sis. Think about this for a minute and listen carefully. God is not a God of confusion. Why, would he come posing as his own Son, if it was really God the Father?

The trinity doctrine, that was the concept of men, is unsound. Just by standing on this one bible verse debunks the trinity doctrine.

Well..think of the Holy Trinity as this. When I was a little girl it was explain to me like this.

The Holy Trinity is a mystery. Christians believe in only one God, yet they get confused when they think of God as three persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I can see how this confuses so many people and it is very difficult for humans to understand.

It is sort of like this. The Holy Trinity states that there are three persons in God.

You might ask…How can one God be in three persons? This is a mystery. They example that was used for me was the shamrock. I happen to be Irish. The shamrock is one flower, yet it has three leaves.

August 17, 2006 at 12:38 am#24515

Participant

Hi Robyn,
While is is kind of you to expound your church doctrines for us you must understand that we base our beliefs here on deeper matters, what is written, and we would like you to show us what you teach has been written in the bible lest you be see as yet another one with the voice of a stranger.

August 17, 2006 at 12:45 am#24516

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 17 2006,01:38)

This is what I don't understand Nick. You place so much in the words of the Holy Bible. You should place your trust in God himself. God knows what is in your heart. We must rely on faith.

Scriptures were written by man and inspired by God. The bible has been translated several times and it leaves it up to ones own interputation. If you pray to God…through the Holy Spirit he will guide you.

I don't know if anything I said in this forum makes any sense to any of you. I am trying my hardest to be sincere with some of you.

August 17, 2006 at 12:46 am#24517

Participant

Yes if what you teach is correct. Then the scripture will back you up.

Explain the reason for what you believe.

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

1 Peter 3:15
But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,

August 17, 2006 at 12:48 am#24518

Participant

Quote (Robyn † @ Aug. 17 2006,20:45)

To Robyn †

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 17 2006,01:38)

This is what I don't understand Nick. You place so much in the words of the Holy Bible. You should place your trust in God himself. God knows what is in your heart. We must rely on faith.

I don't know if anything I said in this forum makes any sense to any of you. I am trying my hardest to be sincere with some of you.

But if we seek God, then the truth he leads us to will never go against scripture, will it?

This is how we know when we have erred, scripture will show us. We also know when we believe correctly because scripture will prove it. God leads us, but he never leads us against that which he has revealed in scripture. Even jesus proved himself by using scripture. He said “it is written” many times.

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

August 17, 2006 at 12:52 am#24519