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ED J said:
Quote Your using faulty logic again, you change this verse to include God, but this verse is about the love of Jesus.
John 15:13: Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
God's love is Greater, because he gave “His Son's” life. (John 3:16)
You use lot's of faulty logic?
ED J,First, I was expecting that someone would use the argument from the word “man.” But Jesus did not say that “no man” has a greater love. He said that “none” has a greater love. The word “man” is NOT in the Greek text.
It literally reads thus:
“Greater love has none than this, that he lay down His life for his friends.””
Second, before making this statement Jesus claimed that He Himself is the Good Shepherd who gives His life for the sheep (John 10).
Uh…Israel had only one Shepherd and that was God.
So your conclusion that my logic is faulty is based in erroneous translation. The word “man” is not in the text. Jesus said that “none” has a greater love. And it is the Good Shepherd (God) Himself who laid down His life for the sheep.
Third, and this is what destroys you. Love is from God. So even if Jesus said that “no man” has a greater love the question may be asked, “How did that man acquire such love? Answer: He acquired such love from God. A second question comes from this: Can God give a man a love that God Himself cannot do?
You anti-trinitarians are not seasoned thinkers. I ask again: Can God give such love that He Himself cannot do?
thinker
Hi TT,
Jesus told us to love one another as he loved us.
We are not God so why does his love make him his own God?Quote You anti-trinitarians are not seasoned thinkers. I ask again: Can God give such love that He Himself cannot do? Hi.
Could you rephrase the question in some kind of proper English?
Also, regardless of whether “man” is in that verse, even if you understand it this way:
“Greater love has none than this, that he lay down His life for his friends.””
It is still talking about Jesus who layed “down his life” and not his Father.
As a side point, while Jesus disciples were considered 'children' to God, Jesus once said that he now considered his close followers “friends.” Of course, that doesn't really prove a lot, but then, neither does anything you have said.Is there some point to your question?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 11 2010,06:42) Hi TT,
Jesus told us to love one another as he loved us.
We are not God so why does his love make him his own God?
Nick,You did not answer the question because you cannot answer it. All love comes from God. Jesus loved with a love which anti-trinitarians say that God cannot do. How can God give love which He Himself cannot do? Just answer will you?
If Jesus was not God in the flesh then His love surpassed God's love.
thinker
Quote (david @ Feb. 11 2010,17:22) Quote You anti-trinitarians are not seasoned thinkers. I ask again: Can God give such love that He Himself cannot do? Hi.
Could you rephrase the question in some kind of proper English?
Also, regardless of whether “man” is in that verse, even if you understand it this way:
“Greater love has none than this, that he lay down His life for his friends.””
It is still talking about Jesus who layed “down his life” and not his Father.
As a side point, while Jesus disciples were considered 'children' to God, Jesus once said that he now considered his close followers “friends.” Of course, that doesn't really prove a lot, but then, neither does anything you have said.Is there some point to your question?
David,You have not followed the whole exchange between ED J and myself. Check the Trinity 2 thread.
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 11 2010,20:19) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 11 2010,06:42) Hi TT,
Jesus told us to love one another as he loved us.
We are not God so why does his love make him his own God?
Nick,You did not answer the question because you cannot answer it. All love comes from God. Jesus loved with a love which anti-trinitarians say that God cannot do. How can God give love which He Himself cannot do? Just answer will you?
If Jesus was not God in the flesh then His love surpassed God's love.
thinker
Hi TT,
God was in him reconciling the world to Himself.
Jesus could do nothing by himself.Are you trying any circuitous inference route now to justify a false foundation?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 12 2010,06:42) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 11 2010,20:19) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 11 2010,06:42) Hi TT,
Jesus told us to love one another as he loved us.
We are not God so why does his love make him his own God?
Nick,You did not answer the question because you cannot answer it. All love comes from God. Jesus loved with a love which anti-trinitarians say that God cannot do. How can God give love which He Himself cannot do? Just answer will you?
If Jesus was not God in the flesh then His love surpassed God's love.
thinker
Hi TT,
God was in him reconciling the world to Himself.
Jesus could do nothing by himself.Are you trying any circuitous inference route now to justify a false foundation?
Nick,Lately you have been weak on scriptural support. Jesus NEVER said that He could do nothing “by” Himself. He said that He could do nothing on His own authority. There is a BIG difference.
Hebrews 1 says that He “BY Himself” purged our sins:
“who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins”
Jesus suffered and died “By Himself.” He gave His life “By Himself.” God worked in Christ's acts to reconcile the world to Himself.
“God was in [the acts of] Christ reconciling the world to Himself.”
You still have not answered my question. Can God give love that He Himself cannot do?
I think that you are feeling the pressure of our arguments and this is why you have not given much scriptural support in recent days.
thinker
Hi TT,
You try to offer Jesus as a separate divinity from God and then expect us to take you seriously when you say they are the same god?Smoke and mirrors of mystery babylon.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 12 2010,07:25) Hi TT,
You try to offer Jesus as a separate divinity from God and then expect us to take you seriously when you say they are the same god?Smoke and mirrors of mystery babylon.
All yakk and no substance.thinker
Hi TT,
This is a bible study site yet you offer logic and inferences and a fine imagination instead?Why?
Perhaps because there is no trinity god in the bible?Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 10 2010,20:47) ED J said: Quote Your using faulty logic again, you change this verse to include God, but this verse is about the love of Jesus.
John 15:13: Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
God's love is Greater, because he gave “His Son's” life. (John 3:16)
You use lot's of faulty logic?
ED J,First, I was expecting that someone would use the argument from the word “man.” But Jesus did not say that “no man” has a greater love. He said that “none” has a greater love. The word “man” is NOT in the Greek text.
It literally reads thus:
“Greater love has none than this, that he lay down His life for his friends.””
Second, before making this statement Jesus claimed that He Himself is the Good Shepherd who gives His life for the sheep (John 10).
Uh…Israel had only one Shepherd and that was God.
So your conclusion that my logic is faulty is based in erroneous translation. The word “man” is not in the text. Jesus said that “none” has a greater love. And it is the Good Shepherd (God) Himself who laid down His life for the sheep.
Third, and this is what destroys you. Love is from God. So even if Jesus said that “no man” has a greater love the question may be asked, “How did that man acquire such love? Answer: He acquired such love from God. A second question comes from this: Can God give a man a love that God Himself cannot do?
You anti-trinitarians are not seasoned thinkers. I ask again: Can God give such love that He Himself cannot do?
thinker
Hi thethinker:Jesus said that it was the Father doing the works through him. In other words, it is the Word of God that he and we are obeying.
If you are asking if the invisible God can be crucified and die, the answer is no he cannot. He is eternal. He did taste death in that he anguished at what they did to His Son.
The body of Christ is God's body. It is written that the body of Christ is the Holy Temple of God.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 12 2010,07:51) Hi TT,
This is a bible study site yet you offer logic and inferences and a fine imagination instead?Why?
Perhaps because there is no trinity god in the bible?
Nick,You infer from Bildad's word that God cannot become incarnate. Bildad said that the son of man is a worm. You infer by a chain of inferences that the incarnation was an impossibility. You make inferences from the words of a man who was NOT an oracle of God.
thinker
Hi TT,
It has never been a case of what God could or could not do and building doctrines based on such speculation has never been of wisdom.But what is written is that God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself.[2Cor5]
And God can be in you [Eph 3.] and continuing that work of reconciliation.Quote (942767 @ Feb. 12 2010,14:50) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 10 2010,20:47) ED J said: Quote Your using faulty logic again, you change this verse to include God, but this verse is about the love of Jesus.
John 15:13: Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
God's love is Greater, because he gave “His Son's” life. (John 3:16)
You use lot's of faulty logic?
ED J,First, I was expecting that someone would use the argument from the word “man.” But Jesus did not say that “no man” has a greater love. He said that “none” has a greater love. The word “man” is NOT in the Greek text.
It literally reads thus:
“Greater love has none than this, that he lay down His life for his friends.””
Second, before making this statement Jesus claimed that He Himself is the Good Shepherd who gives His life for the sheep (John 10).
Uh…Israel had only one Shepherd and that was God.
So your conclusion that my logic is faulty is based in erroneous translation. The word “man” is not in the text. Jesus said that “none” has a greater love. And it is the Good Shepherd (God) Himself who laid down His life for the sheep.
Third, and this is what destroys you. Love is from God. So even if Jesus said that “no man” has a greater love the question may be asked, “How did that man acquire such love? Answer: He acquired such love from God. A second question comes from this: Can God give a man a love that God Himself cannot do?
You anti-trinitarians are not seasoned thinkers. I ask again: Can God give such love that He Himself cannot do?
thinker
Hi thethinker:Jesus said that it was the Father doing the works through him. In other words, it is the Word of God that he and we are obeying.
If you are asking if the invisible God can be crucified and die, the answer is no he cannot. He is eternal. He did taste death in that he anguished at what they did to His Son.
The body of Christ is God's body. It is written that the body of Christ is the Holy Temple of God.
Love in Christ,
Marty
So Jesus did not really love you? It was just God in Him?The Bible says that Jesus' words and works were the Father's. But no where does the Bible say that the love of Jesus was not His own.
The love of the Father was manifested by His giving His Son for us. The love of the Son was manifested by His laying down His own life. If Jesus was not God in the flesh, then His love surpassed God's love.
thinker
Hi TT,
Such philosophical comparisons based on human observations add nothing to what is written.
Dig deeper than your own weak ideas to truth.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 17 2010,05:22) Hi TT,
It has never been a case of what God could or could not do and building doctrines based on such speculation has never been of wisdom.But what is written is that God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself.[2Cor5]
And God can be in you [Eph 3.] and continuing that work of reconciliation.
Verse 14 says that it is the love of Christ compels men to judge that it was Christ who died. Now read Paul's statement with the same judgment:“God was in [the works of] Christ reconciling the world to Himself.”
Does the love of Christ compel you to judge that it was Christ who died and that God was IN THAT WORK OF CHRIST reconciling the world to Himself?
Anti-trinitarianism thrives on taking biblical statements out of their context.
thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 17 2010,05:30) Hi TT,
Such philosophical comparisons based on human observations add nothing to what is written.
Dig deeper than your own weak ideas to truth.
GALATIANS 2:20:I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 17 2010,05:05) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 12 2010,07:53) Hi TT,
Did you think Jesus could not have resisted the will of his God?
He chose to die for you by his own free will.
Nick,Absolutely yes! Jesus died of His own free will. Was Isaiah better than Jesus? Isaiah was not forced to serve God! Isaiah offered his service saying, “Here I am, send me.” Again, was Isaiah more noble than Jesus?
In the garden Jesus had His chance to back out and He said, “Not My will but Thine be done.” If Jesus would have backed out the Father would have sent Him twelve legions of angels:
Or do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels? Matthew 26:53
and,
“Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.” John 10:17-18
The Father loved the Son because He did not have to be forced to lay down His life. He layed His life down of Himself. The Father would have delivered Him if He had just asked.
thinker
Hi TT,
Yes he served his God unto death for your sake even despite his own will.———————————————————
———————————————————Nick,
Therefore, the love of Jesus was His own.
thinker
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