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Several threads have recently been made 'believer only'. I guess Nick and t8 must be a bit insecure about their ability to justify their fantasy world in the face of contradictory reality. It's a confirmation that christianity likes to give it but can't take it.
Stuart
Might I add that it is dishonest for epistemaniac to discuss my contibutions and those of kejonn in threads we are no longer able to post in. Just shows you how much christian fundamentalists need to shift the goal posts to preotect their little fantasy world. I began posting here over a year ago, I have not broken any of the rules (the tile has not been explained in terms of those rules, I guess that is god's kind of justice). I have been consistent, it is the moderators who have changed my ability to post here. That is a retrospective introduction of a rule that is not written. So much for those rules. There are obviously other unwritten rules. Why should anyone respect any of them?
Stuart
OK Stu I can see you are a bit grumpy.
This is my opinion: The “Believers only” area was a good idea because it helps people discuss the topics without disruption and you had little to contribute to a lot of the topics there. Now it all works better because doubting ways are catered for in appropriate topics.
Since the beginning of these forums, there has been a rule to stick to the topic and people have been booted off in the past for hijacking discussions to push an agenda, (no atheists have been booted yet if I remember rightly). As it says in the rules it is OK to push agendas in appropriate topics, just not in other topics that are not related to a persons agenda.
Imagine that these forums were about motorbikes and you came here saying that motorbikes suck and cars are much better. Well the first thing you have to wonder is why are you here and why not go to a car forum. But to keep you happy we decided to include some forums about cars where you were even allowed to say why they are so good and why bikes are not.
Well in these forums the believers section is for believers and you are free in other sections to push the singularity santa theory as long as the topic is appropriate.
Complaining about it or saying that you cannot turn any or every discussion into a 'God doesn't exist' topic is just not why these forums were created. So I think you really are not in a position to complain, but that is my opinion.
You are really spitting hairs there t8. I have not been perfect with staying on topic, but I am not alone in that. The point is that prior to your Boy Scout initiatives I did not do as you suggest and post on a different topic. My contributions to discussions about John 3:16 have been about John 3:16, but it is only your opinion that my opinion is not relevant. Objectively I have addressed the issues relevant to the post.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Aug. 24 2008,15:12) My contributions to discussions about John 3:16 have been about John 3:16, but it is only your opinion that my opinion is not relevant. Objectively I have addressed the issues relevant to the post.
This is interesting.It is true that you contribute to any given topic, but sometimes you heckle those who are positively discussing the topic at hand.
heck·le
–verb (used with object) 1. to harass (a public speaker, performer, etc.) with impertinent questions, gibes, or the like; badger.In other words, to tell Christians that their “god” (a slam in and of itself by using lower case) is nasty or that they live in a fantasy world for believing in him is rude. In fact, it could be considered a form of bullying. I would not go onto a Atheist site and tell them all the reasons why they are living in a fantasy world and that their beliefs are nasty (even if I thought I had evidence to prove it was nasty). This would not be nice and surely not respectful?
Does not your world view allow for respect of all beliefs? “Respect” being the key word here…..
Anyway, as you know, I enjoy chatting with you and hearing your view even if it opposes mine. But I also respect the fact that other Christians do not agree and wish to be sheltered from such “attacks” on their faith. I guess it boils down to respect.
Just my opinion, for what it's worth!
MandyHow do you know Stu has not been sent to test the faith of others? He is a much milder test than Job went through
.lol! Why would God send a Atheist to test Christians, that really makes no sence. God doesn't want to hurt our faith he wants us to build it up while we rely on Him even in our suffering.
Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 25 2008,05:07) Quote (Stu @ Aug. 24 2008,15:12) My contributions to discussions about John 3:16 have been about John 3:16, but it is only your opinion that my opinion is not relevant. Objectively I have addressed the issues relevant to the post.
This is interesting.It is true that you contribute to any given topic, but sometimes you heckle those who are positively discussing the topic at hand.
heck·le
–verb (used with object) 1. to harass (a public speaker, performer, etc.) with impertinent questions, gibes, or the like; badger.In other words, to tell Christians that their “god” (a slam in and of itself by using lower case) is nasty or that they live in a fantasy world for believing in him is rude. In fact, it could be considered a form of bullying. I would not go onto a Atheist site and tell them all the reasons why they are living in a fantasy world and that their beliefs are nasty (even if I thought I had evidence to prove it was nasty). This would not be nice and surely not respectful?
Does not your world view allow for respect of all beliefs? “Respect” being the key word here…..
Anyway, as you know, I enjoy chatting with you and hearing your view even if it opposes mine. But I also respect the fact that other Christians do not agree and wish to be sheltered from such “attacks” on their faith. I guess it boils down to respect.
Just my opinion, for what it's worth!
Mandy
I think you have nailed the point actually. No I do not respect beliefs, because they are just ideas and in my opinion religious ideas are very often loony ideas. That does not mean I do not respect people. Perhaps there is a 'cultural' difference here. I separate the idea from the person (you are not an idiot but you are deluded, etc.). Do you see the difference? Think of your own perception of how a muslim is completely in submission to islam. To them it is not that they call themselves muslim, they ARE islam, the ideology is the identity. I see devout christians as half way along the path from me (person ideology) to islam (person = ideology).No belief deserves respect. Not evolution by natural selection nor islam nor christianity. Those ideas simply stand or fall on their merits, hopefully for justice reasons based in evidence. People are to be respected. As I have said before I think there are some here who put ideology before people. Does that deserve respect?
Stuart
Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 25 2008,12:15) How do you know Stu has not been sent to test the faith of others? He is a much milder test than Job went through .
Would you like to step outside?Stuart
Quote (treverend @ Aug. 25 2008,00:48) lol! Why would God send a Atheist to test Christians, that really makes no sence. God doesn't want to hurt our faith he wants us to build it up while we rely on Him even in our suffering.
Ever read Job?Quote (Stu @ Aug. 25 2008,02:57) Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 25 2008,12:15) How do you know Stu has not been sent to test the faith of others? He is a much milder test than Job went through .
Would you like to step outside?Stuart
C'mon Stu, you know you have no choice in the matter (Rom 9:19). Yahweh hardens whoever he wants to (Rom 9:18).Quote (Stu @ Aug. 25 2008,19:56) No I do not respect beliefs, because they are just ideas and in my opinion religious ideas are very often loony ideas. That does not mean I do not respect people. Perhaps there is a 'cultural' difference here. I separate the idea from the person (you are not an idiot but you are deluded, etc.). Do you see the difference?
Have you traveled the world much, Stu? Your “world”view is not very global, I'm afraid.In some parts of the world you may NOT separate beliefs from the person. Try it and you may find yourself missing your head, or an arm, or put in prison. This is serious stuff, my friend. Give it some more thought and consideration….
Love,
MandyHi Stu.
Quote (Stu @ Aug. 24 2008,15:12) You are really spitting hairs there t8. I have not been perfect with staying on topic, but I am not alone in that. The point is that prior to your Boy Scout initiatives I did not do as you suggest and post on a different topic. My contributions to discussions about John 3:16 have been about John 3:16, but it is only your opinion that my opinion is not relevant. Objectively I have addressed the issues relevant to the post. Stuart
Maybe you have stuck to some subjects, but saying that John 3:16 sucks because there is no God, is really a different topic which would be better discussed in a topic about the non-existence of God or something like that. In the end all your posts have one agenda and that is to say that there is no God. Yes you can push that agenda in probably any topic, but because it is not really the point of most of the discussions, then it isn't really appropriate. You are free to create new discussions of course that relate to your agenda and people are free to read, reply, or ignore you. But you must also know that duplicate discussions when pointed out to me are usually closed down with a link to the older discussion.Thanks for listening.
Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 25 2008,22:19) Quote (Stu @ Aug. 25 2008,02:57) Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 25 2008,12:15) How do you know Stu has not been sent to test the faith of others? He is a much milder test than Job went through .
Would you like to step outside?Stuart
C'mon Stu, you know you have no choice in the matter (Rom 9:19). Yahweh hardens whoever he wants to (Rom 9:18).
Actually KJ, what you may find is that YHWH hardens people's hearts because he hands them over to the things that they are pushing to find. In other words, seek and you will find.
So if a man seeks his own glory or seeks to rebel against his creator, then one way to understand it is how humans' corruption of their own minds (by refusing God) leads God to hand them over to the corruption of their bodies (through controlling desires).
God is a just God and he doesn't just harden someones heart at random or because he had a bad day. No he allows things to happen because men have chosen their way.If I chose to rebel against God, then God is free to harden my heart because surely that is what I am heading toward. If I choose to serve God, then he is free to soften my heart and make me more pliable to conform to his image.
People read some things in the bible with no understanding of who God is and conclude (as they want to) that God is evil. But God gives us the desires of our heart. He gives us what we seek. If we seek that which is unholy and unrighteous, then what will God give us?
I still enjoy chatting with you stu. This is weird. I was just going to mention something about how you're making me a stronger person, more patient, etc, and then I scrolled up to this:
How do you know Stu has not been sent to test the faith of others? He is a much milder test than Job went through
.In fact, the main reason I'm on here and stayed on here, is because I enjoy speaking with people who are so set in their ways, and so sure of themselves, people who believe so strongly in something, and yet, are so absurdly wrong. Before you take offense to that, I'm not really speaking of you…. You at least have reasons for believing what you do….flawed and strongly biased reasons, but reasons none the less.
It's possible the reason you are sometimes locked out, is because they want to discuss a certain thing (the trinity for example). Your response might be: 'There is no trinity because God doesn't exist.' But that's not the discussion they're having.
I also enjoy telling you why a singularity coming from nothing and transforming into stars, galaxies, life, and banana's is kind of funny. I mean it is good to have a laugh is it not.
Quote (t8 @ Aug. 26 2008,19:20) I also enjoy telling you why a singularity coming from nothing and transforming into stars, galaxies, life, and banana's is kind of funny. I mean it is good to have a laugh is it not.
I might feel the need to report you to a moderator for failing to stay on-topic. You can get kicked out of some areas of this site for that, you know.Stuart
Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 26 2008,06:47) Quote (Stu @ Aug. 25 2008,19:56) No I do not respect beliefs, because they are just ideas and in my opinion religious ideas are very often loony ideas. That does not mean I do not respect people. Perhaps there is a 'cultural' difference here. I separate the idea from the person (you are not an idiot but you are deluded, etc.). Do you see the difference?
Have you traveled the world much, Stu? Your “world”view is not very global, I'm afraid.In some parts of the world you may NOT separate beliefs from the person. Try it and you may find yourself missing your head, or an arm, or put in prison. This is serious stuff, my friend. Give it some more thought and consideration….
Love,
Mandy
It is true that I have not visited any of the places that remove bits of you for not believing silly things but I have travelled quite extensively in Europe, and seen a bit of North America, with a couple of stops in Asia. My worldview is very common in the UK and Western Europe but in the US you might get a different opinion. Don't forget that the statistics on religion for the US are massively different to those for the rest of the English-speaking world. Agnosticism is the norm and atheism becoming a more positive statement as mainstream religion grows old and stops going to church, as it spectacularly is in NZ, Australia and the UK.As for being concerned about threats from others, a life lived half in fear is a life half lived, as the corny aphorism has it. I live in a secular democracy with a strong tradition of free speech (which strengthens everytime the goverment passes a law about which the self-righteous religious are liable to have kittens-we still have a blasphemy law though!). If I cannot stand up and say that islam is a vile thing to delude humans with then what is the point of all the dying and killing my ancestors and their friends did to defeat totalitarianism and preserve the freedoms we enjoy? There are brave people in the world who do live in countries where their similar opinions cause them to be in constant danger. I live in one where my opinion is pretty much a mainstream view, although perhaps not part of the political spin (we have trade agreements with places like Saudi Arabia on which we depend economically so the politicians don't tend to voice it in the same way). We are against US hegemony as much as we are against religious brutalism. To me it is a matter of justice that people be required to justify with evidence the direction they would have us take in our public life. The religious usually cannot and that is why I could only support a secular state where the playing field is even and only those with the weight of reason behind them should eventually prevail.
Thanks for your concern!
Stuart
Quote (t8 @ Aug. 26 2008,14:47) Hi Stu. Quote (Stu @ Aug. 24 2008,15:12) You are really spitting hairs there t8. I have not been perfect with staying on topic, but I am not alone in that. The point is that prior to your Boy Scout initiatives I did not do as you suggest and post on a different topic. My contributions to discussions about John 3:16 have been about John 3:16, but it is only your opinion that my opinion is not relevant. Objectively I have addressed the issues relevant to the post. Stuart
Maybe you have stuck to some subjects, but saying that John 3:16 sucks because there is no God, is really a different topic which would be better discussed in a topic about the non-existence of God or something like that. In the end all your posts have one agenda and that is to say that there is no God. Yes you can push that agenda in probably any topic, but because it is not really the point of most of the discussions, then it isn't really appropriate. You are free to create new discussions of course that relate to your agenda and people are free to read, reply, or ignore you. But you must also know that duplicate discussions when pointed out to me are usually closed down with a link to the older discussion.Thanks for listening.
What a load of rubbish. If you followed this logic you would kick off half the contributors to the trinity 'discussion'. A point about how patently political John 3:16 is a point about John 3:16, it has nothing to do with whether believers are so deluded that their imaginary friends seem real.Stuart
Hi David
Quote It's possible the reason you are sometimes locked out, is because they want to discuss a certain thing (the trinity for example). Your response might be: 'There is no trinity because God doesn't exist.' But that's not the discussion they're having.
But if you actually read what I write, I am quite happy to assume the existence of your castle in the air for the purpose of discussing it. I probably post more in that mode than in any other, allowing the assumption of a being that frankly is a joke concept. I am glad therefore that you do not include me as one of your “people who are so set in their ways, and so sure of themselves, people who believe so strongly in something, and yet, are so absurdly wrong.” Because I think I display a greater flexibility of thinking by doing so. Remember, one of us reserves a chink of possibility that the other is right. Do you remember who that is?Quote You at least have reasons for believing what you do….flawed and strongly biased reasons, but reasons none the less.
Still waiting for that predictive, falsifiable and evidentially supported Theory of Divine Breathing Into Dirt and Rib Transmogrification theory of spontaneous human creation. How is it coming along?Stuart
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