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Quote (2besee @ Jan. 19 2013,20:55) Quote Don't know what a 'hyperdispensationilists' is? Hi Ed,
It is a belief that arose from the teachings of E.W. Bullinger (1837-1913).
2Besee,E.W. Bullinger spoke Hebrew.
So he knew the “Tanakh”.Bullinger never claimed to be a prophet, instead he was a bible scholar.
Sure he got a few things wrong, be he also had a lot right!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org2besee,
Quote Acts 10:44-48
“While Peter was still saying this, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word.
And the believers from among the circumcised who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles.
For they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared,
“Can any one forbid water for baptising these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”
And he commanded them to be baptised in the name of Jesus ChristThis verse is probably one of your favourites to use, and sometimes we DO have favourite scriptures to use to back up our arguments that we consider game enders, and I'd say that this is one of your big guns you were reserving whilst setting its sights on us…
But friend, would you think i were crazy if i told you that this has NOTHING to do with Water Baptism at all?
That you are seeing only what you want to see?Because I tell you straight, brotherly truth from me to you, THAT MESSAGE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WATER BAPTISM.
If you are willing to hear me, I will tell you what it is actually saying.
Up to you?Cheers.
Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 19 2013,23:44) Quote (2besee @ Jan. 19 2013,20:55) Quote Don't know what a 'hyperdispensationilists' is? Hi Ed,
It is a belief that arose from the teachings of E.W. Bullinger (1837-1913).
2Besee,E.W. Bullinger spoke Hebrew.
So he knew the “Tanakh”.Bullinger never claimed to be a prophet, instead he was a bible scholar.
Sure he got a few things wrong, be he also had a lot right!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi Ed,So you would rather base your understanding on a man of these days and agree with him when the earliest church knew that to be reborn was to be firstly water baptised and then baptised in the spirit….. and this was common knowledge to those closest in time to the Disciples an to Jesus.
Why?
Quote (Devolution @ Jan. 20 2013,01:09) 2besee, Quote Acts 10:44-48
“While Peter was still saying this, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word.
And the believers from among the circumcised who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles.
For they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared,
“Can any one forbid water for baptising these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”
And he commanded them to be baptised in the name of Jesus ChristThis verse is probably one of your favourites to use, and sometimes we DO have favourite scriptures to use to back up our arguments that we consider game enders, and I'd say that this is one of your big guns you were reserving whilst setting its sights on us…
But friend, would you think i were crazy if i told you that this has NOTHING to do with Water Baptism at all?
That you are seeing only what you want to see?Because I tell you straight, brotherly truth from me to you, THAT MESSAGE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WATER BAPTISM.
If you are willing to hear me, I will tell you what it is actually saying.
Up to you?Cheers.
Please proceed Devolution.BTW, I only looked at that verse properly the other day. So no, sorry, you are wrong with that.
Quote (2besee @ Jan. 20 2013,11:12) Quote (Devolution @ Jan. 20 2013,01:09) 2besee, Quote Acts 10:44-48
“While Peter was still saying this, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word.
And the believers from among the circumcised who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles.
For they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared,
“Can any one forbid water for baptising these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”
And he commanded them to be baptised in the name of Jesus ChristThis verse is probably one of your favourites to use, and sometimes we DO have favourite scriptures to use to back up our arguments that we consider game enders, and I'd say that this is one of your big guns you were reserving whilst setting its sights on us…
But friend, would you think i were crazy if i told you that this has NOTHING to do with Water Baptism at all?
That you are seeing only what you want to see?Because I tell you straight, brotherly truth from me to you, THAT MESSAGE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WATER BAPTISM.
If you are willing to hear me, I will tell you what it is actually saying.
Up to you?Cheers.
Please proceed Devolution.BTW, I only looked at that verse properly the other day. So no, sorry, you are wrong with that.
2Besee.The conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus,
is not about babtism,but about being REBORN.
back into mothers whomb.Because water is mentioned in the conversation,all have
mistaken it for babtism. This is error.wakeup.
Hi Wakeup,
I think that we are talking about two different verses.
Me and Devo are talking about Acts 10:44-48.This is not about being born again from the mothers womb.
“While Peter was still saying this, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word.
And the believers from among the circumcised who came with Peter were amazed,
because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles.
For they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared,
“Can any one forbid water for baptising these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”
And he commanded them to be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ“This is clearly:
- *To the Gentiles
*Talking about baptism
*Talking about water being used in baptism.Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 20 2013,06:20) Quote (2besee @ Jan. 20 2013,11:12) Quote (Devolution @ Jan. 20 2013,01:09) 2besee, Quote Acts 10:44-48
“While Peter was still saying this, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word.
And the believers from among the circumcised who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles.
For they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared,
“Can any one forbid water for baptising these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”
And he commanded them to be baptised in the name of Jesus ChristThis verse is probably one of your favourites to use, and sometimes we DO have favourite scriptures to use to back up our arguments that we consider game enders, and I'd say that this is one of your big guns you were reserving whilst setting its sights on us…
But friend, would you think i were crazy if i told you that this has NOTHING to do with Water Baptism at all?
That you are seeing only what you want to see?Because I tell you straight, brotherly truth from me to you, THAT MESSAGE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WATER BAPTISM.
If you are willing to hear me, I will tell you what it is actually saying.
Up to you?Cheers.
Please proceed Devolution.BTW, I only looked at that verse properly the other day. So no, sorry, you are wrong with that.
2Besee.The conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus,
is not about babtism,but about being REBORN.
back into mothers whomb.Because water is mentioned in the conversation,all have
mistaken it for babtism. This is error.wakeup.
wupno, not back to mother whomb,that was Nicodemus miss understanding of Christ words
Quote (2besee @ Jan. 20 2013,11:28) Hi Wakeup, I think that we are talking about two different verses.
Me and Devo are talking about Acts 10:44-48.This is not about being born again from the mothers womb.
“While Peter was still saying this, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word.
And the believers from among the circumcised who came with Peter were amazed,
because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles.
For they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared,
“Can any one forbid water for baptising these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”
And he commanded them to be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ“This is clearly:
- *To the Gentiles
*Talking about baptism
*Talking about water being used in baptism.
2BeseeIn that case we are.
But why still quibbling about babtism with water?wakeup.
Quote (2besee @ Jan. 20 2013,11:10) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 19 2013,23:44) Quote (2besee @ Jan. 19 2013,20:55) Quote Don't know what a 'hyperdispensationilists' is? Hi Ed,
It is a belief that arose from the teachings of E.W. Bullinger (1837-1913).
2Besee,E.W. Bullinger spoke Hebrew.
So he knew the “Tanakh”.Bullinger never claimed to be a prophet, instead he was a bible scholar.
Sure he got a few things wrong, be he also had a lot right!God bless
Ed J
Hi Ed,So you would rather base your understanding on a man of these days and agree with him when the earliest church knew that to be reborn was to be firstly water baptised and then baptised in the spirit….. and this was common knowledge to those closest in time to the Disciples an to Jesus.
Why?
2Besee,Since I have been baptized with God's Holy Spirit,
my understanding is based on what GOD'S Spirit reveals to me.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (2besee @ Jan. 19 2013,14:12) Quote But I can not find a scripture that he instituted water baptism ,please show me a scripture,??? T,
A scripture that “institutes water baptism” you cannot find?
look at it.Matt 28:19
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.Acts 2:38
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him.”
And he testified with many other words and exhorted them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.”
So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.Acts 10:44-48
“While Peter was still saying this, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word.
And the believers from among the circumcised who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the GENTILES.
For they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared,
“Can any one forbid WATER FOR BAPTIZING these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”
And he COMMANDED THEM TO BE BAPTIZED in the name of Jesus Christ.
2beeMatt 28:19
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.this verse does not appears in the book of Mathew ,the Hebrew version ,and it looks suspicious (to much Catholic)
Acts 2:38
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him.”
And he testified with many other words and exhorted them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.”
So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.all those baptized that day were JEWS
cts 10:44-48
“While Peter was still saying this, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word.
And the believers from among the circumcised who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the GENTILES.
For they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared,
“Can any one forbid WATER FOR BAPTIZING these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”
And he COMMANDED THEM TO BE BAPTIZED in the name of Jesus Christ.so you notice that it his Peter that command it but why
were is the teachings of Christ and of the prophets
we all know that rituals are done with just as Paul says ;
Gal 6:12 Those who want to make a good impression outwardly are trying to compel you to be circumcised (baptized). The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ.
1Th 4:1 Finally, brothers, we instructed you how to live in order to please God, as in fact you are living. Now we ask you and urge you in the Lord Jesus to do this more and more.
Ro 15:16 to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles with the priestly duty of proclaiming the gospel of God, so that the Gentiles might become an offering acceptable to God, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.
1Co 1:30 It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.1Co 7:18 Was a man already circumcised when he was called? He should not become uncircumcised. Was a man uncircumcised when he was called? He should not be circumcised.
1Co 7:23 You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men.there is no spiritual gain in water baptism unless you are a JEW, for the Gentiles they could not change until they acquire,the knowledge of the one they believe in ;
Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Heb 11:2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.AC 17:29 “Being then the children of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and thought of man.
AC 17:30 “Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent,
AC 17:31 because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead.”
AC 17:32 Now when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some began to sneer, but others said, “We shall hear you again concerning this.”1Pe 1:14 As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance.
it is all about live according to God's will and not according to the will of men or the flesh,
no water baptism ,folklore ,it seemed that even the water baptism at one point is gone ,and all later written letters do not speak of water baptism but only of the baptism of the spirit ,or in Christ ;
1Co 12:13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit(knowledge) to drink.
1CO 10:1 For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea;
1CO 10:2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1CO 10:3 and all ate the same spiritual food;
1CO 10:4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.1CO 10:6 Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they also craved.
1CO 10:7 Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written, “THE PEOPLE SAT DOWN TO EAT AND DRINK, AND STOOD UP TO PLAY.”
1CO 10:8 Nor let us act immorally, as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell in one day.
1CO 10:9 Nor let us try the Lord, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the serpents.
1CO 10:10 Nor grumble, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the destroyer.
1CO 10:11 Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
1CO 10:12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall.
1CO 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.
1CO 10:14 Therefore, my beloved, flee from idolatry.
1CO 10:15 I speak as t
o wise men; you judge what I say.
1CO 10:16 Is not the cup of blessing which we bless a sharing in the blood of Christ? Is not the bread which we break a sharing in the body of Christ?
1CO 10:17 Since there is one bread, we who are many are one body; for we all partake of the one bread.
1CO 10:18 Look at the nation Israel; are not those who eat the sacrifices sharers in the altar?
1CO 10:19 What do I mean then? That a thing sacrificed to idols is anything, or that an idol is anything?
1CO 10:20 No, but I say that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons and not to God; and I do not want you to become sharers in demons.
1CO 10:21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons.
1CO 10:22 Or do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? We are not stronger than He, are we?
1CO 10:23 All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful, but not all things edify.
1CO 10:24 Let no one seek his own good, but that of his neighbor.
1CO 10:25 Eat anything that is sold in the meat market without asking questions for conscience’ sake;
1CO 10:26 FOR THE EARTH IS THE LORD'S, AND ALL IT CONTAINS.
1CO 10:27 If one of the unbelievers invites you and you want to go, eat anything that is set before you without asking questions for conscience’ sake.
1CO 10:28 But if anyone says to you, “This is meat sacrificed to idols,” do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for conscience’ sake;
1CO 10:29 I mean not your own conscience, but the other man’s; for why is my freedom judged by another’s conscience?
1CO 10:30 If I partake with thankfulness, why am I slandered concerning that for which I give thanks?
1CO 10:31 Whether, then, you eat or drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.
1CO 10:32 Give no offense either to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God;1CO 10:33 just as I also please all men in all things, not seeking my own profit but the profit of the many, so that they may be saved.
Hi:
Being born of water is not water baptism, but believers should be baptized in water. It is a public profession showing that we are united with him in his death, and burial, and his resurrection.
Quote Col 2:6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, [so] walk ye in him: Col 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:Col 2:11 ¶ In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
=10] Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.=/10]
Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Love in Christ,
MartyHi Marty,
I believe that it is much more than simply a public confession. I believe that it is literally (spiritually) being born again into Gods kingdom as a child of God rather than of man. This is how the earliest church believed it and I believe how they believed.To be born again as a child of God does not mean that you are “safe and secure”, because not all make it, and not all go on to be also born of the spirit.
There is so much learning to do and growing that needs to be done, but I do believe that it is important.
I have only come to this understanding through this thread. I always believed in water baptism but never looked into it properly, and I have done that now.
Hi T,
All of the scriptures that you have given us, above, are to do with circumcision, not baptism.
Circumcision was a thing done to the flesh, but it was the heart that was to be, instead, circumcised.You said:
Quote it is all about live according to God's will and not according to the will of men or the flesh, Yes.
So if God commands us to be baptised in water for the forgiveness of our sins, why then are you not obeying God, if you state that obedience is the key?Quote no water baptism ,folklore , According to you.
Quote (942767 @ Jan. 20 2013,08:07) Hi: Being born of water is not water baptism, but believers should be baptized in water. It is a public profession showing that we are united with him in his death, and burial, and his resurrection.
Quote Col 2:6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, [so] walk ye in him: Col 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:Col 2:11 ¶ In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
=10] Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.=/10]
Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyQuote Being born of water is not water baptism, but believers should be baptized in water. It is a public profession showing that we are united with him in his death, and burial, and his resurrection. I can agree with you in part ,but their are so many religion sects
to me i feel like the circumcision to many do not fulfill their obligations and it become a mascaraed ,and is mainly use to divide not to unite ,just like in ;;;
1Co 1:10 I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be NO divisions among you and that you may be perfectly UNITED in mind and thought.
1Co 1:11 My brothers, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you.
1Co 1:12 What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas’”; still another, “I follow Christ.”
1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul?
1Co 1:14 I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except……..SO IT CAME TO BE A SYMBOL OF SEPARATION RATHER THAN ONE THAT UNITE US ,
JUST AS THE CIRCUMCISION, BECOMES USELESS
BUT SURE IF SOMEONE WISHES TO BE WATER DIP BAPTIZED LET HIM GO FOR IT ,AND i WILL RESPECT THAT DECISION,
Quote (2besee @ Jan. 20 2013,11:12) Quote (Devolution @ Jan. 20 2013,01:09) 2besee, Quote Acts 10:44-48
“While Peter was still saying this, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word.
And the believers from among the circumcised who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles.
For they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared,
“Can any one forbid water for baptising these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”
And he commanded them to be baptised in the name of Jesus ChristThis verse is probably one of your favourites to use, and sometimes we DO have favourite scriptures to use to back up our arguments that we consider game enders, and I'd say that this is one of your big guns you were reserving whilst setting its sights on us…
But friend, would you think i were crazy if i told you that this has NOTHING to do with Water Baptism at all?
That you are seeing only what you want to see?Because I tell you straight, brotherly truth from me to you, THAT MESSAGE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WATER BAPTISM.
If you are willing to hear me, I will tell you what it is actually saying.
Up to you?Cheers.
Please proceed Devolution.BTW, I only looked at that verse properly the other day. So no, sorry, you are wrong with that.
Hi 2besee,I did say probably, but that's okay.
It is a favourite for some.
And if not understood properly, is often used as a argument supporting water baptism.
Let me explain:What happened before Peter was sent to Cornelius' house?
God showed him a vision of the unclean animals whose message was this:Acts 10:15 >And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God has cleansed, that call not thou common.
Now Peter still held the TRADITION of the Jews, and not Peter only, but all the Apostles & early Jewish disciples…that the Gentiles were unclean outsiders, and that the new covenant, like the first covenant, was for Israel ONLY.
God was showing him…no more of this mindset, the new covenant was for ALL nationalities.
Notice what Peter said when he first entered Cornelius' house and saw those gathered within?
Acts 10:28 >And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an UNLAWFUL thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation, but God hath showed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
So Peter came to understood the message after first being confused by the vision.
Now since this revelation was only revealed to Peter, none of the early Jewish disciples nor Apostles at this stage knew that God was calling the Gentiles also, that this gospel of Christ was not exclusively for the Jews like the first covenant was (with exception for those cases where outsiders settled in Israel and worshipped God by the old covenant, thus becoming adopted)
Now notice this:
Acts 10:23 >…….and certain BRETHREN from Joppa accompanied him.
Now keep this in mind:
2 Corinthians 13:1 >This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.
Remember, only Peter at this stage was shown the vision & understood it, sure, he could have told those disciples accompanying him, but they could still have been sceptical, Peter could be making it up as far as they'd be concerned.
To them, God was only for Israel, the chosen people, just as it had been for thousands of years.
So this was the reason Peter was accompanied by those brethren…WITNESSES.Now notice HOW Peter addressed those DISCIPLES after they witnessed the Holy Ghost fall upon those GENTILES, those UNCLEAN outsiders…
“Can any one forbid water for baptising these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”
Notice?
Can ANY man forbid
That my friend is a CHALLENGE.
Peter is testing their WITNESS, will they hold onto their age old TRADITION and still reject these Gentiles, or be true to the event and ACCEPT that mercy HAS been extended to the Gentiles too?
That is WHAT the Water baptism was about in this case, the water baptism itself was merely the symbolic ACT of ACCEPTANCE towards these Gentiles AIMED at those brethren who WITNESSED the event of whom were AMAZED that the Gentiles found Gods GRACE.
Peter was testing their WITNESS, water baptism was the SIGN of their (those brethren) ACCEPTANCE.
Who needs water baptism AFTER receiving the Holy Spirit?
So what happened when Peter returned to Jerusalem?
He needed to EXPLAIN why he kept company with GENTILES.
Because the Apsotles had heard what had happened (Acts 11:1)
And he even had to prepare his story what he would say before meeting up with those Apostles (Acts 11:4)
Because he was being challenged for seeing those Gentiles (Acts 11:2-3)And what did the Apostles say after hearing all this?
Acts 11:18 >When they heard these things, they held their peace, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life
See?
This is what it was all about…
The Gentiles being accepted by God.
Water baptism was just the SYMBOLIC ACT used to show those brethrens ACCEPTANCE of what they had WITNESSED…that grace has been extended to the Gentiles too.So this had nothing to do with water baptism.
Please think about this.
I'm not tickling your ears.Cheers.
Hi Marty,
Do you know anything about the early writings? Well, the earliest church (their misunderstandings aside) believed that being born again was 1)water baptism, and 2)the spirit.
Do you know St Irenaeus, as one example, well, this is how serious an issue it seems to be:
St Irenaeus 120AD
“The consequence is, that a viper of the Cainite heresy, lately conversant in this quarter, has carried away a great number with her most venomous doctrine, making it her first aim to destroy baptism. Which is quite in accordance with nature; for vipers and asps and serpents themselves generally do affect arid and waterless places. But we, little fishes after the example of our ikhthus, Jesus Christ, are born in water, nor have we safety in any other way than by permanently abiding in water; so that most monstrous creature, who had no right to teach even sound doctrine, knew full well how to kill the little fishes, by taking them away from the water!”
“This class of men have been instigated by Satan to a denial of that baptism which is regeneration to God, and thus to a renunciation of the whole faith.”
And, Marty, that 'baptism' and 'regeneration' is clearly written and explained all through the early writings to be baptism in water.
Quote (942767 @ Jan. 20 2013,08:07) Hi: Being born of water is not water baptism, but believers should be baptized in water. It is a public profession showing that we are united with him in his death, and burial, and his resurrection.
Quote Col 2:6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, [so] walk ye in him: Col 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:Col 2:11 ¶ In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
=10] Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.=/10]
Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyPaul is talking about the baptism Col;2;12
but it is only part of a deeper understanding of the meaning of becoming a true believer ,
it as nothing to do with water immersion (know that baptism means immersion and so could very well mean “in knowledge “what would be more true according to scriptures ,because we die through our ignorance of God's will ,but not through the lack of water immersion,)
History
Main article: History of Baptism
[edit]Background in Jewish ritual
Main article: Mikvah
Although the term “baptism” is not used to describe the Jewish rituals, the purification rites in Jewish laws and tradition, called “Tvilah”, have some similarity to baptism, and the two have been linked. The “Tvilah” is the act of immersion in natural sourced water, called a “Mikvah”[70][71] In the Jewish Bible and other Jewish texts, immersion in water for ritual purification was established for restoration to a condition of “ritual purity” in specific circumstances. For example, Jews who (according to the Law of Moses) became ritually defiled by contact with a corpse had to use the mikvah before being allowed to participate in the Holy Temple. Immersion is required for converts to Judaism as part of their conversion. Immersion in the mikvah represents a change in status in regards to purification, restoration, and qualification for full religious participation in the life of the community, ensuring that the cleansed person will not impose uncleanness on property or its owners (Num. 19 and Babylonian Talmud, TractateChagigah, p. 12). It did not become customary, however, to immerse converts to Judaism until after the Babylonian Captivity.[72] This change of status by the mikvah could be obtained repeatedly, while Christian baptism, like circumcision, is, in the general view of Christians, unique and not repeatable.[73] Even the so-called rebaptism by some Christian denominations is not seen by them as a repetition of an earlier valid baptism and is viewed by them as not itself repeatable.
During the Second Temple period the Greek noun baptismos was used to refer to ritual washing in Hellenistic Judaism.
[edit]John the Baptist
John the Baptist adopted baptism as the central sacrament in his messianic movement,[74] seen as a forerunner of Christianity.
[edit]Early Christianity
Main article: Baptism in early Christianity
Baptism has been part of Christianity from the start, as shown by the many mentions in the Acts of the Apostles and the Pauline epistles. Christians consider Jesus to have instituted the sacrament of baptism. How explicit Jesus' intentions were and whether he envisioned a continuing, organized Church is a matter of dispute among scholars.[23]
There is a scholarly consensus that the earliest Christian baptism was normally by immersion,[75][76] [77][78] or at least that this is probable.[79] Some interpret this as meaning total immersion or submersion beneath the water. Among those who take this view are Thomas Schreiner,[80] Everett Ferguson,[81] Di Berardino,[82] Tischler,[83] and Lang[84] Others understand immersion as not necessarily implying submersion beneath the water. Kirsten Marie Hartvigsen distinguishes between immersion and submersion and considers both as possible early-Christian forms of baptism,[85] as does Christian Strecker.[86] Laurie Guy says: “The church most likely practiced full immersion, partial immersion and affusion at various times and places in the early centuries, with sprinkling being practiced rarely (and probably only for medical reasons) during that time period.”[87] Robin M. Jensen describes the early Christian baptismal ritual as having for basis “immersion in water (or a thorough soaking by pouring)”,[88] and describes the primitive, first-century ritual as having encompassed both “application of water (whether by immersion or by some other means) and an imposition of hands”, adding that “'Baptism' originally conveyed the sense of water's application (if not also immersion) in its very definition”.[89] Other recent studies that see total immersion (submersion) as not the only form of baptism utilized by early Christians include Steven J. Schloeder,[90] Charles Thomas,[91] Stanley J. Grenz,[92] and also the Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church,[93] and the Oxford Dictionary of the Bible.[94]
The theology of baptism attained precision in the 3rd and 4th centuries.[21] While instruction was at first given after baptism, believers were given increasingly specific instructions before being baptized, especially in the face of heresies in the 4th century.[95] By then, postponement of baptism had become general, and a large proportion of believers were merely catechumens (Constantine was not baptized until he was dying); but as baptisms of the children of Christians, using an adaptation of the rite intended for adults, became more common than baptisms of adult converts, the number of catechumens decreased.[95]
As baptism was believed to forgive sins, the issue of sins committed after baptism arose. Some insisted that apostasy, even under threat of death, and other grievous sins cut one off forever from the Church. As indicated in the writings of Saint Cyprian, others favoured readmitting the “lapsi” easily. The rule that prevailed was that they were readmitted only after undergoing a period of penance that demonstrated sincere repentance.
What is now generally called the Nicene Creed, longer than the text adopted by the First Council of Nicaea of 325, and known also as the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed because of its adoption in that form by the First Council of Constantinople in 381, was probably the baptismal creed then in use in Constantinople, the venue of the 381 Council.[96]
[edit]Early Middle Ages
Infant baptism became common, alongside the developing theology of original sin, displacing the earlier common practice of delaying baptism until the deathbed.[21] Against Pelagius, Augustine insisted that baptism was necessary for salvation even fo
r virtuous people and for children.what is the most strange is that to some seems so important ;is that we do not see or read that one apostles was really obeying Christ so called to baptism in Mat;28;19 and yet the only one that practice baptism regret it , what is the message their of
I do not deny the baptism of the Jews for repentance ;
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