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Quote (life_of_praise @ Oct. 02 2006,23:54) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 02 2006,23:45) Quote (life_of_praise @ Oct. 02 2006,23:24) Daniel, Ezekiel and Zechariah. Revelation was created from those books.
Books that were from these Prophets…and the prophecies given to them by God.
Early Christians rejected Revelations…I see why…and they were wise to do so.
hmm.
Are there any other books we should dispose of while we at it?
Revelations will do.Prophets in the OT and Jesus already covered the end of times.
Hi lop,
Is this wise?
Is there no truth in the book you see at all?
Is it lies?
It purports to be from God Himself.Rev 1
” 1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: “DANIEL 7:13
““I kept on beholding in the visions of the night, and, see there! with the clouds of the heavens someone like a son of man happened to be coming; and to the Ancient of Days he gained access, and they brought him up close even before that One.”“someone like a son of man.” It's not just revelation that uses that phrasology. (is that a word?)
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 03 2006,00:03) Quote (life_of_praise @ Oct. 02 2006,23:54) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 02 2006,23:45) Quote (life_of_praise @ Oct. 02 2006,23:24) Daniel, Ezekiel and Zechariah. Revelation was created from those books.
Books that were from these Prophets…and the prophecies given to them by God.
Early Christians rejected Revelations…I see why…and they were wise to do so.
hmm.
Are there any other books we should dispose of while we at it?
Revelations will do.Prophets in the OT and Jesus already covered the end of times.
Hi lop,
Is this wise?
Is there no truth in the book you see at all?
Is it lies?
It purports to be from God Himself.Rev 1
” 1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: “
Hello Nick!Nick study Revelations and at the same time study the 3 books I have mentioned from the OT.
Also, what Jesus said in Matthew 24.
I can honestly say I studied and studied and John the Divine created a book taken from what was already prophesized in the OT and by Jesus. But he did a bad job and one heck of a confusing job at it.
John the Divine is in the Spirit…and later on..back in the Spirit.
Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
Rev 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit; and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
In Rev 1, he was supposedly already in the spirit….why did he get out of the spirit and then had to get back into the spirit???
Why is he bowing to angels?
Rev 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things.
You gotta ask yourself…who is the John and who gave him this revelation?
Compared to all the other books in the Bible…this book is waaaaaaaaaaay out there. The other books make sense.
Quote (david @ Oct. 03 2006,00:23) DANIEL 7:13
““I kept on beholding in the visions of the night, and, see there! with the clouds of the heavens someone like a son of man happened to be coming; and to the Ancient of Days he gained access, and they brought him up close even before that One.”“someone like a son of man.” It's not just revelation that uses that phrasology. (is that a word?)
David,The prophets in the OT never seen Jesus. So of course, they are going to say like unto the Son of man.
This John…who's suppose to be the author of the Gospel of John should not be saying “like unto….”.
He was with Jesus. He should know who He is. He should know better than to bow to angels too.
Quote Why is he bowing to angels?
Because an angel is very powerful creature, and one that if you suddenly saw it in it's glory, may cause you to fall to the ground. But he was corrected.Quote Rev 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship [Gk proskyneo] before the feet of the angel who showed me these things.
The word proskyneo can be translated in a number of ways. It simply means to bow down, show obeisance, honor and respect and can mean to worship. Your Bible translator believes in the trinity. So, he wants to show Jesus being worthy of worship and hence, being God. That is translational bias. Please see the “worship” thread on Jesus.A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent forth his angel and presented [it] in signs through him to his slave John 1:1
This angel presented it in signs to John. In this verse:Quote Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
We see that by inspiration John came to be in the Lord's day. Remember, the angel was presenting it in signs. So in 4:2 it seems that in an instant of time, John is spiritually transported by God’s spirit (active force) to the very throne of Jehovah.Quote (david @ Oct. 03 2006,00:37) Quote Why is he bowing to angels?
Because an angel is very powerful creature, and one that if you suddenly saw it in it's glory, may cause you to fall to the ground. But he was corrected.Quote Rev 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship [Gk proskyneo] before the feet of the angel who showed me these things.
The word proskyneo can be translated in a number of ways. It simply means to bow down, show obeisance, honor and respect and can mean to worship. Your Bible translator believes in the trinity. So, he wants to show Jesus being worthy of worship and hence, being God. That is translational bias. Please see the “worship” thread on Jesus.A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent forth his angel and presented [it] in signs through him to his slave John 1:1
This angel presented it in signs to John. In this verse:Quote Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
We see that by inspiration John came to be in the Lord's day. Remember, the angel was presenting it in signs. So in 4:2 it seems that in an instant of time, John is spiritually transported by God’s spirit (active force) to the very throne of Jehovah.
He was with Jesus. Witnessed the things Jesus did.Sorry, but the excuses are not cutting it.
There's no excuse for him to bow and start worshipping angels…twice.
Rev 22:9 Then he said unto me, See you do it not: for I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of them who keep the words of this book: worship God.
That's after he started to worship the angel. The angel said don't do that…..worship God.
That Scripture clears things up. He was bowing to worship the angel…and he did that twice. This is the man that was supposedly with Jesus.
The angel presented it in sign…and God did the same thing back in the OT and the prophecies were explained.
He was in the spirit…and then in the spirit again. Again, why is he going in and out of the spirit?
You're only comprehending parts of what I posted. Not all.
Again..what are the 7 spirits of God and is only mentioned in Revelations?
Quote (david @ Oct. 03 2006,00:37) Quote Why is he bowing to angels?
Because an angel is very powerful creature, and one that if you suddenly saw it in it's glory, may cause you to fall to the ground. But he was corrected.Quote Rev 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship [Gk proskyneo] before the feet of the angel who showed me these things.
The word proskyneo can be translated in a number of ways. It simply means to bow down, show obeisance, honor and respect and can mean to worship. Your Bible translator believes in the trinity. So, he wants to show Jesus being worthy of worship and hence, being God. That is translational bias. Please see the “worship” thread on Jesus.A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent forth his angel and presented [it] in signs through him to his slave John 1:1
This angel presented it in signs to John. In this verse:Quote Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
We see that by inspiration John came to be in the Lord's day. Remember, the angel was presenting it in signs. So in 4:2 it seems that in an instant of time, John is spiritually transported by God’s spirit (active force) to the very throne of Jehovah.
Hi david,
I think it more likely that it was a vision seen by John while on earth as God cannot be seen by man.Anyone who is repulsed by this book is showing they have yet to be blessed by the gift of God's Spirit. Ask for it LOP.
Hi lop,
Would you recognise an angel? Many have entertained angels without knowing it.
Would you recognise the glorified son of God as you say John should have?
Why is it surprising that the vision comes and goes?
Paul did not even know if he was in a vision or not when he saw the third heaven.
Revelation shows us so much about heavenly things and man cannot grasp it. Have you tried Enoch which is accessible through this site?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 03 2006,01:13) hi LOP,
There are seven[the perfect number] churches shown in Rev 2-3.
Cross reference to where in the Bible? Revelations?Nah. Sorry.
Again, Jesus never quoted from Revelations. He quoted from the OT and what was given to the Prophets by God, our Heavenly Father.
Hi lop,
Jesus did not quote from any of the gospels or the letters of the apostles either. Did those speak the Words of God, or should only the OT be taken without a grain of salt?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 03 2006,01:11) Quote (david @ Oct. 03 2006,00:37) Quote Why is he bowing to angels?
Because an angel is very powerful creature, and one that if you suddenly saw it in it's glory, may cause you to fall to the ground. But he was corrected.Quote Rev 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship [Gk proskyneo] before the feet of the angel who showed me these things.
The word proskyneo can be translated in a number of ways. It simply means to bow down, show obeisance, honor and respect and can mean to worship. Your Bible translator believes in the trinity. So, he wants to show Jesus being worthy of worship and hence, being God. That is translational bias. Please see the “worship” thread on Jesus.A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent forth his angel and presented [it] in signs through him to his slave John 1:1
This angel presented it in signs to John. In this verse:Quote Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
We see that by inspiration John came to be in the Lord's day. Remember, the angel was presenting it in signs. So in 4:2 it seems that in an instant of time, John is spiritually transported by God’s spirit (active force) to the very throne of Jehovah.
Hi david,
I think it more likely that it was a vision seen by John while on earth as God cannot be seen by man.Anyone who is repulsed by this book is showing they have yet to be blessed by the gift of God's Spirit. Ask for it LOP.
Now stop.I've prayed, studied and have compared and studied and prayed and of course asked the Holy Spirit guide me to truth.
Can you honestly say that you have asked the Lord to do that with you in Revelations and really put forth the effort to study?
Anytime someone sees things differently…the first thing people say is well they don't have the Holy Spirit. That's as bad as certain denominations say…well they were never saved to begin with.
That's wrong to say and wrong to do.
And to be honest, all I see is lame excuses to why John the Divine bows to angels and both times the angels tell him not to do that.
There's no excuse for John to say “like unto”. He's either the Son of man or He's not. The prophets in the OT said that because they have never…never seen Jesus.
This John is supposedly was with Jesus. One would think He would know Jesus.
And if he wasn't sure…since he said “like unto”…why is someone going to drop to their need and face to the ground and worship?
Something doesn't add up folks…and it's not that I haven't received the Holy Spirit.
Open your eyes and study and ask the Lord to lead you.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 03 2006,01:30) Hi lop,
Jesus did not quote from any of the gospels or the letters of the apostles either. Did those speak the Words of God, or should only the OT be taken without a grain of salt?
Jesus quoted from the Old Testament.The Gospels were written about Jesus and all the wonderful things He said and done.
The letters…Jesus was sitting on the right hand of God.
Revelations…tried to take from the 3 OT books…claim it was a revelation of some sort.
Again..Revelations prophesizes what was already prophesized.
Prophesizing a prophesy.
Hi lop,
Other christians feed happily on this good food and it is you who have found it distasteful. We do not judge it or John and need to justify our adherence to it because it is greater than us being written by the Spirit of God.Hi lop,
I believe Revelation is an expanded detailing of the OT and the words of Jesus, particularly relating to the final days of normal earthly life before and including the return of Christ. Those who are still here will need this information.It portays the last few years in different idioms and from different perspectives showing the final vengeance on satan and the man satan has deceived into following him.
Lord Jesus Christ already explained that in Matthew 24
That's why He starts out with
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
He's telling us right there…in Matthew, Mark and Luke what to look for..the signs. Right there!
Quoting Daniel…Lord Jesus Christ tells us…Mat 24:15 When you therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoever reads, let him understand:)
Go back to Daniel…matches up. His prophecy and what our Lord Jesus Christ says.
Jesus not once quoted from the book of Revelation…but He did quote from Daniel. If it's from Jesus…don't you think He would have quoted Scriptures from His own revelation?
Hmmmm….
That's says a lot!
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 03 2006,01:43) Hi lop,
Other christians feed happily on this good food and it is you who have found it distasteful. We do not judge it or John and need to justify our adherence to it because it is greater than us being written by the Spirit of God.
And many…many Christians ignore that book. Say it's confusing…doesn't make sense.If you want to feed on the Book of Revelations…then by all means, do it.
But I'll stick with who Jesus actually quoted from…Daniel.
The Prophet our Heavenly Father gave visions too and were
explained
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