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My grandson has started going to a church, where the
Pastor believes that John made up the story.I believe that all the writings of KJV and some of the
gnostic writings are the inspired word of Father God.I would like some input from the forum.
Welcome, Karen.
I feel you would be better off teaching your grandson.Here is a good scripture to show him from the KJV:
“That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.” (Psalm 83:18, KJV)
david
Hi and welcome Karen,
We hear from many here who would like to remove all the words of John as they make them uncomfortable. That is because they are built on a foundation that is not as deep as the Word of God.The Scriptures disagree with your Pastor:
II Peter 1:16
16We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.I agree with David. We are all individually responsible for seeking out truth. Some of these verses may also help.
We should all be doing these 3 things:
Matthew 7:7-8
7″Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.The wise philosophers of this age are but fools:
1 Corinthians 1:20-21
20Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.But the Scriptures are reliable:
II Timothy 3:16
16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.Men's Testimony can be fruitful but God's is greater:
I John 5:9
9We accept man's testimony, but God's testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son.The Testimony of God about John's record of Jesus's Revelation:
Rev 1:3
3Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.The Testimony of God about false Teachers:
2 Peter 3:3-4
3First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4They will say, “Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”And:
II Timothy 4:3
3For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.And we are to Stand Firm in the Truth:
9The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
13But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth. 14He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
16May our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who loved us and by his grace gave us eternal encouragement and good hope, 17encourage your hearts and strengthen you in every good deed and word.The false teaching about Christ's Return was already beginning in Paul's time:
II Timothy 2:15-18
15Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. 16Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. 17Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18who have wandered away from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some.Don't Let these False teachers seperate you from the Truth of God:
II Timothy 3:6
6They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over weak-willed women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth.This dark world is a battlefield for Truth and for our hearts and minds:
II Corinthians 10:3-5
3For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.The Scriptures is our sure word of Prophecy until The Day Dawns (Christ Returns) and the morningstar rises in our hearts (we are made like Christ):
2 Peter 1:19-21
19And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. 20Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. 21For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.I hope these help.
Revelation 22:18-19
18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.
19 And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.The Book of Revelation was so important that this book out of all the books in the bible has the above warning.
What does that say about that pastor?
It would be better if your grandson didn't come under that pastors authority if that is what he says. Surely your grandson deserves a better chance to learn than being subjected to a doubter.
I agree with you all.
My problem is that I have not been allowed to see or visit with my
granchildren for several years.
Because of disagreements between their father and wife(not my daughter),and my daughter (his mother)
The only communication has been thru infrequent phone calls and
from my daughter who had been allowed to visit.
There has been alot of anger and distrust on all sides, for them.
My granson is now 18yrs old and is out on his own, so I am able to communicate thru email.
He has always tried to stay in touch with me, that is one good thing.
I was under the impression that his father was raising him in a christian
home.
They went to a Baptist church and profess to be christians,
but I know that going to church does not make a christian.
My granson is searching for answers, how I know, is he has started going to the church of his girlfriend.
It was during an email that he told me about this “pastor”.
And, even tho his father kept him from me, he remembers me as
someone who always put him first, and loved him.
It is my hope and prayer that before Christ's coming both my granchildren
will hear the true word of God.
I thank you all for your encouragement and the scriptures to strenghten
my instruction to him.
I will pass these scriptures on to him, and I have also, told him about
Heaven Net.
It is my hope and prayer that he will visit this website, and find the Truth.
Again, Thank You.
In Christian Love,
Granmaw KarenGranmaw Karen,
I'm sure I speak for others here that we will remember him in our prayers.May the Lord bless you
Welcome Karen,
Very fine post Mercy. The point is, MANY churches do not believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God. The Catholic church is foremost among these as they give their traditions equal weight with scripture. They refer to events cited in the Bible as “stories” given similar credibility as one of Aesoph's Fables.
You might wish to read the works of the reknowned Sir William Mitchell Ramsay who was a famous and well educated (Oxford) British Archeologist. From 1880 onwards he travelled widley in Asia Minor and rapidly became the recognized authority on all matters relating to the districts associated with St Paul's missionary journeys and on Christianity in the early Roman Empire.
Ramsey's impact on historical and archeological Church History is immense. Some of his most important works are: The Church in the Roman Empire, St Paul the Traveller and the Roman Citizen, Was Christ born at Bethlehem?, The Letters to the Seven Churches of Asia, The Cities of St Paul, Luke the Physician.
In his work, Luke the Physician, Ramsay studied the book of Luke for authenticity against the archeological evidences. His conclusion was that Luke was quite reliable and would be considered foremost among the best of historians.
Everything we know about Christ shows that he and his apostles believed the Biblical accounts as being true and trustworthy. “It is written”, often proceeded out of our Lord's mouth before he spoke, especially when refuting Satan after his 40 days in the wilderness. If we are true disciples of Christ, we should have the same mindset as our Master.
I specifically asked people who do not believe the Bible is inspired of God, what then do they base their faith and doctrine on. They could not give me more than a “touchy feely” description of their walk with God. So that is what your grandson will be left with. I'm not sure how old he is but if
he's between 10-12, you might want to get The Picture Bible from Cook Communications. The Biblical accounts are very well organized using comic strip style illustrations but tastefully done. It will show him that the Bible is a very real, accurate historical book. More than that, it will make clear God's plan for the redemption of man.Praying for both you and your Grandson,
Semmy
Hi Karen,
Too many deny the Word of God. I am with you. I stand on the King James. I believe that men have added and taken away from the Word of God and this is what has corrupted the faith today. And the time of God's judgement is at hand. Revelations will be fulfilled and any who deny the Word of God are of the spirit of the antichrist. You need to tell your grandson to leave that place.
Hi H,
Are we to read between the lines that those who do not use KJV;Are not standing on truth
Have corrupted faith
Are reading corrupted bibles
Are of the antichrist spirit
Deny the Word of God
Will face the judgement of God for this
While you are alone and noble in your personal righteousness?If so we pity you.
As usual Nick, your attack on the King James goes on deaf ears. You cannot stand against the doctrine of God's Word and your words of guff are just that guff. They have no meaning. Your word have been set on the shelf and are collecting dust when it comes to God's Word. Seek the face of God. For one day you will stand before him and it better you stand giving account of the good things that you did for the growth of the faith then the hinderance of the faith.
Hi H,
I pray that you may know the Spirit of Christ that you may see with spiritual eyes that the KJV is not perfect and you need other versions to fully grasp the truth.
2 Peter 1.19f
” 19So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts.20But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation,
21for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.”
Sect leaders love the KJV, because, due to it's mysterious old words, they can confine their followers to their interpretations.
They cannot let their followers have the freedom of the Spirit because they would lose their own power and control.
2Cor 4.17
” 17Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.”Do not be one of them
but be a servant
walking with the rest of the sons of God.I am sorry that my question has caused
upsets.I mentioned KJV because that's what I have.
As I do not have the other printings, I won't disagree
with anyone.By the way, I have been in touch with my Granson.
He has assured me that he does not agree with this pastor.
He thinks this pastor is kinda goofy.I think the only reason he is going to this church, is because
his girlfriend and her family go there.He understands that the Old Testament is Gods' Law thru
Moses.And the New Testament is God' law thru Jesus.
He also, told me that the Book of Revelations is his favorite
book.
Maybe, God put him there for a reason, he is pretty well
grounded.
Maybe, with his knowledge and understanding, he can
be a blessing for this pastor and his girlfriends family.Again, I will Thank you all,Now Play Nice.
Granmaw Karen
Hi Granmaw and welcome,
The new Law is written on our hearts by the Spirit of God. We were never under the Old Law anyway being gentiles but God has now united Jew and Gentile in Jesus and shared his Spirit with them all to teach and guide them according to the Law of Liberty.
Jer 31
” 33″But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the LORD, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.34″They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the LORD, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”
Dear Karen,
That is good to know that your grandson is grounded in the ways of the Lord. And you may be right. He may be there to help them come to a better understanding of the Word of God. God sends his messengers out into the world to spread the gospel. Anyway, I will lift him and this church in prayer so that the Lord's will be done. God bless sis.:D
Quote (seminarian @ Aug. 23 2006,18:37) Welcome Karen, Very fine post Mercy. The point is, MANY churches do not believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God. The Catholic church is foremost among these as they give their traditions equal weight with scripture. They refer to events cited in the Bible as “stories” given similar credibility as one of Aesoph's Fables.
You might wish to read the works of the reknowned Sir William Mitchell Ramsay who was a famous and well educated (Oxford) British Archeologist. From 1880 onwards he travelled widley in Asia Minor and rapidly became the recognized authority on all matters relating to the districts associated with St Paul's missionary journeys and on Christianity in the early Roman Empire.
Ramsey's impact on historical and archeological Church History is immense. Some of his most important works are: The Church in the Roman Empire, St Paul the Traveller and the Roman Citizen, Was Christ born at Bethlehem?, The Letters to the Seven Churches of Asia, The Cities of St Paul, Luke the Physician.
In his work, Luke the Physician, Ramsay studied the book of Luke for authenticity against the archeological evidences. His conclusion was that Luke was quite reliable and would be considered foremost among the best of historians.
Everything we know about Christ shows that he and his apostles believed the Biblical accounts as being true and trustworthy. “It is written”, often proceeded out of our Lord's mouth before he spoke, especially when refuting Satan after his 40 days in the wilderness. If we are true disciples of Christ, we should have the same mindset as our Master.
I specifically asked people who do not believe the Bible is inspired of God, what then do they base their faith and doctrine on. They could not give me more than a “touchy feely” description of their walk with God. So that is what your grandson will be left with. I'm not sure how old he is but if
he's between 10-12, you might want to get The Picture Bible from Cook Communications. The Biblical accounts are very well organized using comic strip style illustrations but tastefully done. It will show him that the Bible is a very real, accurate historical book. More than that, it will make clear God's plan for the redemption of man.Praying for both you and your Grandson,
Semmy
Hi Semmy,
Good post.Just a tidbit on Revelations.
Revelations never mentions the Holy Spirit. Spirit, yes. Holy Spirit, not once.
Also, Revelations was written by someone name John the Divine.
Also, In Daniel, God said the Books were sealed. So why are the books open. God is not a liar.
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Dan 12:3 And they that are wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars forever and ever.
Dan 12:4 But you, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and swore by him that lives forever that it shall be for a time, times, and a half; and when he shall have accomplished the shattering of the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.
Dan 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
Dan 12:9 And he said, Go your way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.Books are sealed.
All that is in Revelations has already been prophesized by Daniel, Ezekiel, Zechariah.
Also, Jesus never said He would kill anyone children.
Rev 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he who searches the minds and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Jesus never talked like that. Never.
Now, many say that this John is the same as the John who wrote the Gospel. Well…if that was the case, then John would know who Jesus is.
Rev 1:13 And in the midst of the seven lampstands one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girded about the breast with a golden belt.
Does he not know who Jesus is? He should. Now, in the Old Testament it is understandable for the prophets to say “like unto the Son of man”. They never seen Christ. But John did.
Another thing, in Revelations who is the Lamb? It never says Lamb of God…but just Lamb. And look how this lamb is described…
Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Jesus does not have seven eyes and/or seven horns.
And what are the 7 spirits of God?
Another thing, why is it that Christians bypass or say the book of revelations doesn't make sense…confusing.
God is not the author of confusion.
All that is “prophesized” in Revelations was already prophesized in the Old Testament. And when the visions that were from God..were given to the prophets…the visions were explained!
Just adding a bit from what I have studied and noticed.
Take care and God Bless!
Hi LOP,
We have no problem with Revelation.
It is as essential as any other book written by the Spirit.
I do not say any of us understand it all as it is a book of mysteries but we are meant to try to do so.
It is a spiritual book which none should attempt to grasp without receiving the promised gift of God to His children, the Spirit. Typical is the reference to Jesus as the Lamb. He was called the Lamb of God by John the baptist but Revelation just calls him the lamb because of the symbolism inherent in that . He was sacrificed for us by his choice.Which book was sealed up?
Till when?
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