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Quote (t8 @ Sep. 13 2006,01:36) Luke 10:17-18
17 The seventy-two returned with joy and said, “Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name.”
18 He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.When did he see Satan fall from heaven?
Right then, in the past, a future vsion?
Basically I believe He knew what the end result would be of humans doing battle in Jesus's name. The ultimate fullfillment will be as the bride readies herself (trims her wick) it somehow leads to the war breaking out in heaven.11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Could it be, we are told Satan has 1/3 of the angels on his side and possibly there are still a large number undecided causing basically a standoff? but as they see the end results of sin compared to the redemption of God they get off the fence.
Just speculating, don't stone me yet.
Of Antichrist, and His Ruin
by John BunyanFIRST SIGN.
First then. The downfall and ruin of Antichrist draws near, when the church and people of God are driven from all those hiding-places that God has prepared for them in the wilderness. The church of God, when the dragon did his worst, had an hiding-place prepared her of God, that she might not utterly be devoured by him; and so shall have till the time of his end shall come.
Of this you read in the 12th of the Revelation, a place worthy to be noted for this. But now, when the time of the ruin of Antichrist draws on, then is the church deprived of her shelter, and laid open, as one would think, to be utterly swallowed up for ever, having no more place in the wilderness, that is, among the nations, to hide herself from the face of the serpent. But how comes this to be a SIGN of the approach of the ruin of Antichrist? why thus. The time of this beast's war with the church of God, and the time that the church shall have an hiding-place in the wilderness, are both of a length, the one continuing forty-two months, the other a thousand two hundred and threescore days. Now since the war that this beast makes with the woman and her seed, and the woman's hiding-place in the wilderness from his face, are, for length of time, the same; what hindereth but that when the woman and her seed can find no more shelter in the nations, the time that the beast hath allotted him to make war against her, should be finished also? when we therefore shall see that plots and conspiracies, that designs for utter ruin, are laid against God's church all the world over; and that none of the kings, princes, or mighty states of the world, will open their doors, or give them a city for refuge; then is the ruin of Antichrist at hand: for Haman's plot, though the most universal that ever yet was hatching, (being laid in an hundred twenty-seven provinces,) did but presage the deliverance and exaltation of the Jews, and the hanging of Haman and his sons: yea, and I take it, that the very day that this great enemy had set for the utter overthrow of the church, God made the day in which their deliverance began, and that from whence it was completed; and I take that to be a type of this.
There is but one thing that I can think of that can give matter of a shew of doubt about this thing; and that is, though the time of this war against the saints, and that of the woman's shelter in the wilderness as to length, be one and the same; yet whether they did commence together, and begin to take their rise, as men do that begin to run a race? a word therefore to this. I suppose they did commence much together; for else with whom should this beast make war, and how should the church escape? Or, if the beast began his war before the woman began to have a hiding-place, why was she not swallowed up, since in the wilderness was her only place of shelter? Again, what needed the woman to have a place of shelter in the wilderness, when there was no war made against her? And yet this must be, if her thousand two hundred and threescore days, began before the beast's forty-two months: but they ended both together; for the beast could not kill the witnesses before they had finished their testimony; which testimony of theirs lasted this full time that the beast had granted him to make war with them, to wit, one thousand two hundred and threescore days (Rev 11:3): therefore their times went out together, as will be made appear, if you consider also that the witnesses were slain, by virtue, not of the old, but of a new war levied against them; and that, as it should seem, at the very time when her hiding- place was taken from her; for then indeed, for a little season, will the church of God be overcome, as I shall shew by and by.
Wherefore, let God's people consider and remember that when God's church is absolutely forlorn, and has no hiding-place any longer in the world, the kingdom of Antichrist will quickly begin to tumble. Nor is this the alone place from whence we may gather these conclusions.
The time of Pharaoh's tyranny, of his life, and of the deliverance of the children of Israel, came out much together; as any will discern that shall consider the history of them. (Gen 15:13)
David, when Saul did sorely prosecute him, fled last into the wilderness to Achish the king of Gath, a Philistine, for shelter; and he gave him Ziklag for his refuge. (1 Sam 27:5,6) And that place so continued to David, 'till just about the time in which Saul must die; and then behold, David's Ziklag is burnt with fire, and himself stript naked of harbour! (1 Sam 30:1) But what matter! The time of Saul's life, as well as of David's Ziklag, was now upon expiring; for within three or four days after, David became the king of Israel. (1 Sam 31:1-6)
And thus also it was with the Babel-beast: His time expired, when the captivity of Israel was upon the finishing: then was the time of his land come, and 'in that' very 'night was Belshazzar the king of the Chaldeans slain.' (Dan 5:25-30)
Thus therefore it will happen to the church in the latter days: her place of shelter in the wilderness; her Ziklag will be taken from her, about the time that the war that the beast has to make upon the woman and her seed shall be finished. But now the church is not therefore immediately delivered, when her Ziklag is taken from her; for after that, the beast levieth a new war, to the overcoming and killing of the church: I say therefore, that this is a sign, not of the downfall of Antichrist, but of the approach thereof: for the church's bondage shall continue but three days, and a little after this [shall be her deliverance]. Much like to this was that of David; for after he had lost his Ziklag, for two or three days he had sore distress: but lo, then came the kingdom to him.
Indeed, sense and reason saith, it is a fearful thing for the church of God to be exposed to the rage of her enemy all over the world at once; and that all nations should shut up their gates, let down their portcullises, bolt up their doors, and set open their flood-gates to destroy them: but so will be the dispensation of God, to the end deliverance may be the sweeter, and the enemies fall the more headlong, and the arm of God the more manifest, both for the one, and against the other. And in this will that scripture be fulfilled: 'And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation – – and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.' (Dan 12:1)
Let us gather up what has been said again; namely, that it is a sign of the approach of the ruin of Antichrist, when God's church can find no more shelter in the wilderness; because when her Ziklag is burned, the time of the war that the beast is to make against her, is finished. Wherefore, when she hath given one desperate struggle more, and laid the church of God, or his witnesses, for dead, in the street of his great city, for three days and an half, then comes the kingdom, and the long, long-looked-for rest and glory. Wherefore it remains, that an angel should stand in the sun, and make proclamation to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, to gather themselves together to the supper of the great God: 'That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them; and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.' (Rev 19:18) This is to be after the forty-two months of the beast; and consequently, after the thousand two hundred and threescore days that the church was to be in sackcloth; yea, after the resurrection of the witnesses, as is evident by that which follows: 'And the beast was taken, [that is, after the second year] and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark
of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.' (verse 20)I found this article interesting and have not had to to look into it's validity. I thought it would be interesting to share.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 14 2006,02:53) Hi kenrch,
Good points.
You said
“This is why John could say those who are born again do not sin.”
and so he did.
1Jn 5
” 18We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.”But he also said in the same book that we do sin
1Jn 1
” 7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”
I think the first posted verse speaks of us in an ideal and exhorting way that we ought not do so, while Chapter 1 shows the more realistic way, and recognises that we are not yet perfect.
They had a TV evangelist talking about our potential as Chrisitians of course he was speaking of a new job, more money, a bigger house etc. I was thinking yeah we aren't living up to our potential we aren't doing greater works than Jesus and we should stop thinking so little of ourselves for GREATER IS HE THAT LIVES IN US than he than lives in the world It seems to me that “we” have a very low esteem on our NEW man.Until God's children decide that we are like our Saviour NOT OF THIS WORLD and are registered in heaven (Heb 12:23), that our sins have been forgotten we will never perform the works that we have the potential to do.
Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto the Father.
Who me No I'm just a SINNER! This is not why Jesus paid the price that we should accept defeat because Satan has convinced the church that we are not worthy. Of course we are not worthy but we are covered with the blood of Jesus OLD things are passed away behold all things are new.
Or don't “we” believe that the old man is dead and that “we are no longer of THIS world but of the New World, the New Kingdom of light and not darkness.
In Him we live and move and HAVE OUR BEING. Please lets let our light shine allow the Holy Spirit to use YOU!THROUGH JESUS WE CAN PEFORM THE WORKS OF THE FIRST CENTURY CHURCH ALL WE NEED IS THE FAITH OF A MUSTARD SEED!
Hi kenrch,
Good points.
We all need to seek the WILL of God daily.
Everything else will follow as He lays out His easy plan for us.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 26 2006,00:51) Hi kenrch,
Good points.
We all need to seek the WILL of God daily.
Everything else will follow as He lays out His easy plan for us.
Nick you quoted:
10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”The word here Nick is sinned not sin. We have sinned and if we say we have not sinned then Jesus died in vain and we make Him a liar. Jesus died to forgive us of our sin. Is our sin forgiven OR did Jesus die in vain?
Not only is our sin forgiven it is forgotten as though it didn't happen as though we didn't sin. Any sin that we have commited is covered by the blood of Jesus Christ and thus we have no sin!Now if you walk after the Spirit and not the flesh then we are never convicted of sin.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.I think the first posted verse speaks of us in an ideal and exhorting way that we ought not do so, while Chapter 1 shows the more realistic way, “and recognises that we are not yet perfect”.
Nick you said we are not yet perfect. Guess what you never will be perfect! Only the Holy Spirit in us is perfect. And the Spirit that is in us is right now perfect. GREATER is HE that is in me than he that is in the world.
Now if you don't believe you are forgiven and Greater is He that died for you than he that is in the world then where is your faith and how are we to fulfill scripture?
Just the faith of a mustard seed Nick, the faith of a mustard seed!Hi kenrch,
You said
“Nick you quoted:
10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”The word here Nick is sinned not sin. We have sinned and if we say we have not sinned then Jesus died in vain and we make Him a liar. Jesus died to forgive us of our sin. Is our sin forgiven OR did Jesus die in vain?
Not only is our sin forgiven it is forgotten as though it didn't happen as though we didn't sin. Any sin that we have commited is covered by the blood of Jesus Christ and thus we have no sin!”So looking again at 1Jn 1
” 7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”
So is says if we confess our sins-so we being the saved still sin and need ongoing cleansing as shown in Jn 13
“10Jesus said to him, “He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you.”We are washed but walking in an unclean world causes our feet to need washing.
But you are right in that it does not incur condemnation.
hi
Ge 3:14 So the LORD God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this,
“Cursed are you above all the livestock
and all the wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.
Ge 3:15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.”Rev 20:2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.
ARE THE GENESES SCRIPTURES ADDRESSED TO THE ANIMAL OR TO THE CHERUB THAT WAS SATAN OR BECAME SATAN ;I THINK THAT SCRIPTURES MEANS THAT THOSE WORDS WERE SAID TO THE ANGEL NOT TO THE SNAKE IT SELF ;
OF CAUSE THIS WOULD MEAN THAT sATAN WAS CAST DOWN RIGHT THERE AT AT TIME RIGHT ? YES ,i agree
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